Well here's my take on it. Out of belief in a deeper meaning behind what one encounters and does in life, one may strive to be constructive and altruistic, and gradually grow to really have a bigger heart. You may be cynical and say it's just concealed selfishness. I say that being able to wholeheartedly conduct yourself according to your understanding of a spiritual or moral principle, amounts to the manifestation of your enlightenment of that principle. It's a very real and concrete process that stems from belief. It requires self-discipline and dedication, and it doesn't require denigration or abortion of the intellect.
To speak in Chinese self-cultivation terms, enlightenment is an aspect of man's state of mind/heart (xinxing) that plays out in everyday life. The broader you cultivate your xinxing, the deeper your spiritual realm and inner peace. I think that researching the implications of this requires to broaden the scope defined by the conventions of modern western research. It's exactly what Chinese, through various schools, have been researching for several thousands of years. The outcome of this research - the realm of spiritual cultivation - and that of "modern western conventional research" are often regarded as mutually exclusive, but I think many deeply carved conceptions are derived from intolerance, and are translated in gross generalizations, and a quite arrogant disposition that "we have already discovered what is currently technically possible to discover, so there is no reason to alter our premises".
Speaking of being intellectually fair - Embracing one system of thought or belief does not imply to lose the faculty to grasp or put into perspective another one. Yet taking a snippet from one system, stripping it from all context, and contrasting it against another one can indeed stir up revolt. It doesn't paint the true picture though, it doesn't accurately reflect the nature of that system. This is what I perceive to be intellectually unfair.
Belief - or the concept of enlightenment - is a difficult thing to defend in a "binary" place like/. , which is the reason why I didn't explicitly say I practice Falun Gong myself for over 10 years, to spare me some rant management before I could make my point; anyway so here's my sig: Nicolas Schols, 33, Belgium
Come on dude. This stuff - it's been going on for ten years now - is not something wide-eyed, unstable people could stand through. It takes willpower - and not fanaticism - to survive such attempts to break your will. No group of people has been able to remain as composed in face of persecution by the CCP as they do. We're talking the whole toolbox here - blackmailing, ransacking, abduction, brainwashing, torture, rape, death. There have been no reports of Falun Gong responding with violence to all the bitterness they have faced. They believe in being truthful, compassionate, and tolerant, and feel they should be free to determine for themselves if living according to this is good or bad. It's easy to hail those principles in your living room, but to put them in practice - even under the harshest conditions - is a totally different story. And you can be sure that several standing at the embassy in Vancouver have faced this persecution firsthand.
> "mostly" harmless, "mostly" fair points, "but yeah, they're a cult"
That's all it takes to slap people with a label.
Go talk with one of the Falun Gong practitioners you see at the embassy, if you didn't do so yet. Ask him/her about his beliefs, about his daily life; see what moral integrity and freedom mean to these people. Come post here again afterwards.
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Well here's my take on it. Out of belief in a deeper meaning behind what one encounters and does in life, one may strive to be constructive and altruistic, and gradually grow to really have a bigger heart. You may be cynical and say it's just concealed selfishness. I say that being able to wholeheartedly conduct yourself according to your understanding of a spiritual or moral principle, amounts to the manifestation of your enlightenment of that principle. It's a very real and concrete process that stems from belief. It requires self-discipline and dedication, and it doesn't require denigration or abortion of the intellect. To speak in Chinese self-cultivation terms, enlightenment is an aspect of man's state of mind/heart (xinxing) that plays out in everyday life. The broader you cultivate your xinxing, the deeper your spiritual realm and inner peace. I think that researching the implications of this requires to broaden the scope defined by the conventions of modern western research. It's exactly what Chinese, through various schools, have been researching for several thousands of years. The outcome of this research - the realm of spiritual cultivation - and that of "modern western conventional research" are often regarded as mutually exclusive, but I think many deeply carved conceptions are derived from intolerance, and are translated in gross generalizations, and a quite arrogant disposition that "we have already discovered what is currently technically possible to discover, so there is no reason to alter our premises". Speaking of being intellectually fair - Embracing one system of thought or belief does not imply to lose the faculty to grasp or put into perspective another one. Yet taking a snippet from one system, stripping it from all context, and contrasting it against another one can indeed stir up revolt. It doesn't paint the true picture though, it doesn't accurately reflect the nature of that system. This is what I perceive to be intellectually unfair. Belief - or the concept of enlightenment - is a difficult thing to defend in a "binary" place like /. , which is the reason why I didn't explicitly say I practice Falun Gong myself for over 10 years, to spare me some rant management before I could make my point; anyway so here's my sig: Nicolas Schols, 33, Belgium
Come on dude. This stuff - it's been going on for ten years now - is not something wide-eyed, unstable people could stand through. It takes willpower - and not fanaticism - to survive such attempts to break your will. No group of people has been able to remain as composed in face of persecution by the CCP as they do. We're talking the whole toolbox here - blackmailing, ransacking, abduction, brainwashing, torture, rape, death. There have been no reports of Falun Gong responding with violence to all the bitterness they have faced. They believe in being truthful, compassionate, and tolerant, and feel they should be free to determine for themselves if living according to this is good or bad. It's easy to hail those principles in your living room, but to put them in practice - even under the harshest conditions - is a totally different story. And you can be sure that several standing at the embassy in Vancouver have faced this persecution firsthand.
> "mostly" harmless, "mostly" fair points, "but yeah, they're a cult" That's all it takes to slap people with a label. Go talk with one of the Falun Gong practitioners you see at the embassy, if you didn't do so yet. Ask him/her about his beliefs, about his daily life; see what moral integrity and freedom mean to these people. Come post here again afterwards.