"The MAPS is as if someone went into a business, shot the place up, then that business gets blamed for the shooting (instead of the shooter being blamed), and ends up with people physically blocking it's entrances. It's ludicrous. If MAPS were truly against SPAM, it would create mail server software that had no problems limiting relays for illegitimate people. As it is, MAPS relies on spammers to keep it alive and 'in business'." Sometimes I wish slashdotters would do some research or perhaps even think before they post. MAPS is a service -- it lists people who they feel have not been duly dilligent in policy or action in preventing mail abuse. Paul Vixie nonwidthstanding, MAPS does not write mail software. In fact, in my experience, every major and the majority of minor mail server packages now, by default, limit the potential of abuse in a number of ways (not just relaying). In fact, there's been quite a paradigm shift in recent years (remember when Solaris would install with wide open SMI? Wasn't that long ago..). There's certainly alot more to the UBE/UCE issue than simply open relays, and without going on a full discourse, let's examplify only a few of them here: spammers hijack servers, spammers hijack AOL accounts, ISP dialup accounts, spammers abuse "e-greetingcard" services, spammers use dubious opt-in processes. I will add that I believe YesMail to be a legitimate business (mainsleazer, perhaps, but nevertheless legit). I believe that MAPS' inclusion of them into the RBL may cause some collateral damage to that. It is imperative to point out that this is the design and function of MAPS -- to provide an effective deterrant against errant mailing practices and to companies that provide spammer support services. In fact, this lawsuit is neither fatuous nor frivolous as some slashdotters have asserted, but indeed welcomed by Paul Vixie et al. Why don't you go to www.mail-abuse.org and read for yourself what the actual charter, purpose and goals of MAPS are before you make an ass of yourself in public again, guy. -chris
Re:THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T RESPOND TO SPAM -- EVER!
on
Taking On A Spammer
·
· Score: 1
no. dont delete. LART. www.abuse.net has a contact lookup database you can complain through. read the page, and learn the right way to respond to spam (w/o breaking the law, that is). -c
well... there's more to it.. http://cow.org/~noise/belps.freewebsites.com/joejob.html someone in salt lake city took it upon themselves to try to pin the "man in the wilderness" id on ravi pina who owns cow.org. why? revenge, etc, we don't know. we do know that ravi certainly didn't do the hack, and several of the things the poster mentioned just dont ring true -- as steve sobol so eloquently points out. the existance of the joe job really does alot to harm any possible credibility that rodona may have had -- it will, hopefully, result in the termination of two throw away dialups and may implicate another member of the premier services cadre. rule: spammers are dumb. so there you have it.. i really dont think its fake now.
not true.. you can have an envelope w/ 20 recipients, sometimes more depending on the MTA. the content-lenght was 1043, or about 44 bytes. you have 65,000 ports open to send outgoing mail on to various outbound relay servers. sending 10,000+ messages a MINUTE is not unfeasable for 128k frac-t1.
actually, the signature stuff is real. check the SPAM-L archives.. we've been tracking the "mail. " spammer for a few weeks. i've got plenty of procmail sh*te to id signatures in spam i get (by mailer, by x-headers, by message-id format, etc, etc) and i/could/ have it page me during a run if i wanted to. i'm not saying this is real, but its its a joe job, this guy's a f*cking psycho who had enough time to type up hundreds of pages of logs. so no, i dont think it's fake. -chris ps: here's my mirror http://cow.org/~noise/
Slashdot Mirror
"The MAPS is as if someone went into a business, shot the place up, then that business gets blamed for the shooting (instead of the shooter being blamed), and ends up with people physically blocking it's entrances. It's ludicrous. If MAPS were truly against SPAM, it would create mail server software that had no problems limiting relays for illegitimate people. As it is, MAPS relies on spammers to keep it alive and 'in business'." Sometimes I wish slashdotters would do some research or perhaps even think before they post. MAPS is a service -- it lists people who they feel have not been duly dilligent in policy or action in preventing mail abuse. Paul Vixie nonwidthstanding, MAPS does not write mail software. In fact, in my experience, every major and the majority of minor mail server packages now, by default, limit the potential of abuse in a number of ways (not just relaying). In fact, there's been quite a paradigm shift in recent years (remember when Solaris would install with wide open SMI? Wasn't that long ago..). There's certainly alot more to the UBE/UCE issue than simply open relays, and without going on a full discourse, let's examplify only a few of them here: spammers hijack servers, spammers hijack AOL accounts, ISP dialup accounts, spammers abuse "e-greetingcard" services, spammers use dubious opt-in processes. I will add that I believe YesMail to be a legitimate business (mainsleazer, perhaps, but nevertheless legit). I believe that MAPS' inclusion of them into the RBL may cause some collateral damage to that. It is imperative to point out that this is the design and function of MAPS -- to provide an effective deterrant against errant mailing practices and to companies that provide spammer support services. In fact, this lawsuit is neither fatuous nor frivolous as some slashdotters have asserted, but indeed welcomed by Paul Vixie et al. Why don't you go to www.mail-abuse.org and read for yourself what the actual charter, purpose and goals of MAPS are before you make an ass of yourself in public again, guy. -chris
no. dont delete. LART. www.abuse.net has a contact lookup database you can complain through. read the page, and learn the right way to respond to spam (w/o breaking the law, that is). -c
well... there's more to it.. http://cow.org/~noise/belps .freewebsites.com/joejob.html someone in salt lake city took it upon themselves to try to pin the "man in the wilderness" id on ravi pina who owns cow.org. why? revenge, etc, we don't know. we do know that ravi certainly didn't do the hack, and several of the things the poster mentioned just dont ring true -- as steve sobol so eloquently points out. the existance of the joe job really does alot to harm any possible credibility that rodona may have had -- it will, hopefully, result in the termination of two throw away dialups and may implicate another member of the premier services cadre. rule: spammers are dumb. so there you have it.. i really dont think its fake now.
not true.. you can have an envelope w/ 20 recipients, sometimes more depending on the MTA. the content-lenght was 1043, or about 44 bytes. you have 65,000 ports open to send outgoing mail on to various outbound relay servers. sending 10,000+ messages a MINUTE is not unfeasable for 128k frac-t1.
actually, the signature stuff is real. check the SPAM-L archives.. we've been tracking the "mail. " spammer for a few weeks. i've got plenty of procmail sh*te to id signatures in spam i get (by mailer, by x-headers, by message-id format, etc, etc) and i /could/ have it page me during a run if i wanted to. i'm not saying this is real, but its its a joe job, this guy's a f*cking psycho who had enough time to type up hundreds of pages of logs. so no, i dont think it's fake. -chris ps: here's my mirror http://cow.org/~noise/