It's just that Christianity is relatively unique in its "My Way, or the Long, Painful Highway Of Eternal Damnation, so nyah nyah nyah!" approach. I just have real problems with the whole "One Truth Faith" thing. I think it's petty and childish to think that God is so unenlightened, he can't figure out that the punishment should fit the crime. Sorry, I don't care what you think, but even Hitler himself doesn't deserve to burn in Hell _forever_. There has to be justice sooner or later, even if that justice is just Death.
Which is more likely...that every faith is right or that every faith is wrong? Just because Christianity doesn't adhere to pluralism, much like most eastern philosophy does not make it any less viable. In fact, it's exclusivity makes it much more logical that it would be more correct than any pluralistic religion.
Punishment should fith the crime?...I assume you mean that it doesn't make sense that good people of other faiths or no faiths at all don't go to heaven according to Christian beliefs. The whole idea of the Christian faith is that faith in Jesus as God is required to receive forgiveness for sin. The Bible makes it very clear that sin is sin and it is not weighted in God's eyes. The concept of murder being real real real bad, robbery being real real bad, and adultery being real bad, etc., is a human creation. Each and every one of us are sinners (not on some degree or level...but absolutely), and to receive forgiveness for your sin you must receive Christ's salvation. Therefore, if we are all guilty on the same level then none of us deserves to NOT be punished.
My point has never, ever been to "convert" anyone to Christianity. The only reason I bother trying to reason with people on a logical and scientific platform is just to try to keep some people's minds open that it *could* have happened just is written in the good book. The Bible is written in such a manner that it can be interpreted very loosely in some places and more strict in others. That's how it maintains is timelessness and how it can apply to each human being who has accepted it's teachings. Frankly, it's absolute genius from start to finish.
Noone will every become a Christian (I'm Baptist if you want to get on the denomination level by the way) due to logical reasoning, nor should they. It is very specific in saying it's all about faith. It's not called the theory of Christianity...it's called the Christian faith.
I have no idea whether evolution took place. I don't see any reason that evolution on some level and creationism can't come together at some point. If that was the way it was done...it would have been sheer genius...right? I personally think there is plenty of room in Genesis 1 to accomodate evolution and you should read it again to see for yourself.
Christianity receives alot of fire because Christian beliefs have morphed, somewhat, with scientific findings that seem to conflict with Biblical text. What most intelligent Christians do is they take what they have (the big picture presented in the Bible) and accomodate other things as they come along within that big picture. That is the same exact things evolutionists have done. They have assumed what the big picture looks like and when any new data comes along, the parts of the picture are rearranged to look as close as possible to that big picture.
Both schools of thought are faith based, as a result. We each are entitled to our own beliefs, but in atheistic or agnostic beliefs...I will just remain a Bible thumping creation pusher and when you die, you'll still have your "dignity" (boy will it be important then). In my beliefs...the consequences are much worse. I just pray that you don't have to suffer those consequences.
I'll try to find an article about the whole genetic tracing thing...in the meantime I have a Java assignment due at 5 and it's not done!
The Bible DOESN'T have all the "answers" concerning creation. The book of Genesis details God's revelation of himself to man. He covers the extreme and intense process of creation in one chapter. You showed your true colors when you revealed that you wouldn't listen to any "scientist" who wasn't Christian. It's one thing to interpret things for yourself, but why such the animosity towards Christianity?
Levitical law detailed many, many things. It provided a means for a nomadic group of people to live in the desert and remain healthy. It also provided a means for a people to also show their true faith in God through obeying his laws.
Yes, without question, Orthodox Jews follow the Bible to a far more degree than Christian churches. Of course, they don't follow the New Testament, which is the most important part of the Christian church. Christian churches say that the New Testament law "overrides" Levitical law, but that doesn't discount it as having no modern application.
Did you ever think of why there were such strict laws concerning milk and meat? I am pretty sure that cooking methods weren't too good back then and I am almost certain they weren't homogenizing milk. By making cloth of one fabric, you maintain the consistency and strength of the fabric. With something like Levitical law, it is CRITICAL to consider the circumstances under which the laws were applied.
PI being 3? 4 Legged birds? What are you talking about? I'd love to give you an explanation for the scripture that references this but I honestly don't remember reading any like this.
Archaeologists found evidence of a great flood a few years ago when it was estimated that the Mediterranean Sea broke a natural damn and flooded into the Sea to the East of Mesopotamia. Could this be evidence of the great flood that covered all of the earth? What exactly is "all of the earth"?
And yes, I honestly want you to interpret the Bible for yourself.
As far as inbreeding goes, genetic scientists confirmed that all human beings came from a pair around a quarter million years ago (using modern estimations of previous human life expectancy) in sub-Saharan Africa. The ill effects of in-breeding go away after several generations of in-breeding, which is why Dogs and Cats can do it without any problem.
Carbon dating is truly accurate to a few thousand years. We can be fairly certain of atmospheric conditions for that period of time. When you start talking about millions of years...you are opening up a whole new can of worms.
At odds with observable reality? Where?
A great flood is mentioned among many many different societies. Even aboriginal culture made reference to an incredible, ancient flood.
Count the legs of a grasshopper...what are you talking about?
You should really read and attempt to interpret the Bible for yourself. I'll pray for you.
When someone gives me a hardcore question (ie: apparently carbon dating "just doesn't work" (to which I say why the hell are they using it if it doesn't work?))
Because it's as good as we have. People still use Macs you know.
Evolution is a faith based belief too. At least Christians acknowledge the fact that they worship a belief grounded in faith.
The day that arcades began their funeral march was when a game could not be conquered by a single play. Innovation and gameplay have been replaced by gimmicks and graphics. Artists are required create games these days, not your average, innovative programmer.
Someone please explain to me how game manufacturers benefit from charging a dollar to play a game. There was a Sega Star Wars Arcade game here at a local place that cost $1 per play. It sat empty 99.9% of the time. After it got a bit older and there were problems with the monitor, the price was cut to a quarter a play and now you have to wait in line to play...despite the fact that there is a nasty mark on the screen.
When I was very young (6 or 7 years old), I would get $1 to play each time I went to the arcade. I had to stand on one of the little boosters to even reach the controls. I could enjoy myself for quite a bit of time despite my limited game playing skills, however, now that dollar would last 5 minutes as it would be fed into a game that is DESIGNED to kill me/beat me/take my money after a certain period of time.
As Chesterton said:
the sad thing about someone who doesn't believe in God is not that they believe in nothing...it's that they'll believe in anything!
The part that suggests that there is no God. To look at the world around us and to believe that everything is a chance occurrence truly defies my imagination. Can you not see design in EVERYTHING? How can you not look at a snowflake, ant, or tree and believe that all of this was a result of infinitesimal chance?
The theory of evolution is usually the primary culprit for many people's atheistic beliefs. The theory is based on a handful of archaeological finds and carbon dating. Carbon dating completely and absolutely depends on certain conditions being constant over a great period of time, which may or may not have been the case. Carbon dating has been shown to be very unreliable past 10,000 years or so.
Evolution depends on a species' progression over a great period of time, and that's where carbon dating comes in. Carbon dating is the most trusted means of deducing what time period these archaeological findings originate from. If carbon dating isn't reliable, then how could evolution be reliable?
What evolutionists have done is the equivalent of taking 5 puzzle pieces of a 1000 piece puzzle, arranged them where they think they might have fit. Over time it has been figured out that many of those pieces probably didn't go where they were originally placed so they were moved elsewhere. The key is, those pieces are adjusted to fit a preconcieved notion of how the entire picture looks.
These type of adjustments are the same exact thing that many Christians have done in order to fit scientific findings into the biblical account of creation. The difference is, those people believing that God created everything admit that they have faith in their beliefs. Evolutions feel that evolution is scientific fact. Basically, many people believe totally in evolution because it seems to make sense.
This doesn't necessarily make either side correct. Personally, I don't see any reason why creationist views and evolutionist views can't meet in the middle somewhere. After all, if God chose to create our existing world through evolutionary means, it would have been a stroke of genius, wouldn't it?
That would include scientology. However, Scientology falls on it's face just fine even when considering it's merits.
I admire your faith in the unfounded belief of the lack of existence of the "invisible man", as you put it. It is impressive to see that someone as enlightened as yourself has figured it all out.
BTW...I think 2 people died at the Salem witch trials. When are people going to get over that one.
Re:Is Michael trying to take over Slashdot?
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The History of Pong
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I don't think you'll ever confuse CmdrTaco and maturity. Have you read an interview with him lately? All of his interviews read like an IRC log with a couple of adolescent haX0rs mouthing off.
I don't remember who said that but I think it's important to separate the actions of man from the religion. In scientology's case, it can be discredited adequately on its merits. There is no need to make fun of Tom Cruise too.
To suggest that the world around us is a result of chance and chance only is much harder to swallow than the thought of it being a grand design by an omnipotent God. How can you not see the intricate design in every single thing you see? Have you never seena snowflake up close? How about an ant? Or even think of the model of the atom! Why couldn't creationism and evolution meet somewhere in the middle? If God chose to create the human race via some form of evolution, it would have been genius wouldn't it?
I firmly believe that the story told in the Bible is 100% fact. God revealed his creation of the universe to a shepherd in the wilderness of the Sinai several thousand years ago...how exactly would you go about telling how a computer works much less how the world was created? How would you go about describing such a thing to a people who were slaves?
In the Bible it says a thousand years is as if it were a day to God. Some also believe it's possible that the seven days represents the length of time in which God revealed how he created the universe to Moses. Could this be a valid explanation for what is written in the Bible in Genesis 1?
That article basically says See they have alot of genes that are same! as if it was something we didn't already know. Guess what?!? Apes and humans are alot alike! Whoop-de-do. I can see that at http://www.monkeys.com
If Christians (which I am one of) are so stupid and gullible to believe in evolution then why do you all give them so much lip service? Why do some of you have such an intense hatred for Christianity?
If you want to hear some really really awesome preaching/lecturing that addresses this issue and many more http://www.rzim.org
Thanks for the review...I'll be avoiding this one (I'm STILL pissed about M2M. It will be on MST4K).
Waterworld was pretty good though. I think people expected way too much and didn't get it and they feel burned. The same thing happened to SW Episode 1.
Believing one over the other is a personal matter...but if you choose to believe neither then you have absolutely nothing to gain. Also, if you honestly do believe that tree dancing is the means of attaining eternal salvation and you don't tell me about it because you 'respect' my beliefs then you have condemned me to tree dancing hell.
My point is that any time you condemn a Christian for 'shoving their beliefs down my throat' at least acknowledge that the reason they did it was because they cared enough for you to take the time to share their beliefs. I'm not at all saying that you have done this, it's just that your post made me think of an excellent point.
Religion is called a FAITH for a reason and you won't be able to rationalize any belief system and still consider it a religion. Personal faith is what is at the crux of the matter.
I don't see how any one person can 'ruin' the economy. Bush proposes an across the board tax cut, enabling EVERYONE who pays taxes to keep more of their own money. I know for sure if I had more of my money, I'd spend it and most others would as well.
The economy is *too* good right now to begin with. People are throwing money into companies that haven't turned a profit and never will. I think the economy isn't going to grow as rapidly as it has in the past couple of years. Things are going to level off and maintain some degree of stability. Anything Bush does while in office concerning the economy won't have any effect for 5-10 years minimum anyways.
Do you ever think anything you post through or do you just like making blatant and blind accusations?
Antoine Lavoisier was the first to formulate such a law, the law of conservation of matter or mass, which stated that, in a chemical reaction, the total amount of matter of the reaction compounds remains constant. This law was expressed in a more general form as follows: The total amount of matter in a closed system remains constant.
One thing I never understood from atheism was the fact that...if I am wrong (I am a Christian) and atheists are right then I'll end up worm food and my existence will be over, just like everyone else. If I'm right in my beliefs then atheists have a lot to lose. I can't figure out what people have to gain by being atheists. Is some slanted sense of pride worth that much to you?
I completely agree with that statements you made but the question was still useless. We knew the answer Bush was going to give us so why bother even wasting his or our time.
My reply was just an explanation of why Bush worded the question the way he did...and it was legitimate.
The difference I am referring to has to do with the plan of salvation. Most protestant denominations (Methodists, Baptists, etc.) believe that the only way to attain salvation is to trust that Jesus is God and that he was killed as a sacrifice for everyone's sin and the only way to enter heaven is by believing in him (my belief). Mormons believe that Jesus wasn't the son of God and that the Bible is in err. They believe that the Book of Mormon is the true word of God and supercedes the Bible. They also believe that women are eternally pregnant in heaven and that everyone goes to heaven except for people who were Mormon and converted to another religion. Muslims believe that Jesus was a teacher and prophet but that he isn't the son of God. Many religions believe that you attain salvation by works and sacraments. Jews believe that Jesus was not the Messiah and are still awaiting for the Messiah's arrival.
Since that acquisition of salvation is the most important (BY FAR) part of religion and determines whether or not a person goes to heaven or hell, one would think that the differences are significant and important.
I think followers of each of the religious groups I mentioned believe that a person should love everyone and have respect for them. However, simply having "a healthy respect for the people we're stuck sharing this rock with..." will do absolutely nothing on its own.
The Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy states that matter cannot be created nor destroyed...yet we are surrounded by matter. The only logical thing would be to assume a supernatural source was responsible for the existence of all of this matter (it is as good as any theory anyone else has chosen to put forward). Therefore, it is illogical to be an atheist.
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Which is more likely...that every faith is right or that every faith is wrong? Just because Christianity doesn't adhere to pluralism, much like most eastern philosophy does not make it any less viable. In fact, it's exclusivity makes it much more logical that it would be more correct than any pluralistic religion.
Punishment should fith the crime?...I assume you mean that it doesn't make sense that good people of other faiths or no faiths at all don't go to heaven according to Christian beliefs. The whole idea of the Christian faith is that faith in Jesus as God is required to receive forgiveness for sin. The Bible makes it very clear that sin is sin and it is not weighted in God's eyes. The concept of murder being real real real bad, robbery being real real bad, and adultery being real bad, etc., is a human creation. Each and every one of us are sinners (not on some degree or level...but absolutely), and to receive forgiveness for your sin you must receive Christ's salvation. Therefore, if we are all guilty on the same level then none of us deserves to NOT be punished.
Noone will every become a Christian (I'm Baptist if you want to get on the denomination level by the way) due to logical reasoning, nor should they. It is very specific in saying it's all about faith. It's not called the theory of Christianity...it's called the Christian faith.
I have no idea whether evolution took place. I don't see any reason that evolution on some level and creationism can't come together at some point. If that was the way it was done...it would have been sheer genius...right? I personally think there is plenty of room in Genesis 1 to accomodate evolution and you should read it again to see for yourself.
Christianity receives alot of fire because Christian beliefs have morphed, somewhat, with scientific findings that seem to conflict with Biblical text. What most intelligent Christians do is they take what they have (the big picture presented in the Bible) and accomodate other things as they come along within that big picture. That is the same exact things evolutionists have done. They have assumed what the big picture looks like and when any new data comes along, the parts of the picture are rearranged to look as close as possible to that big picture.
Both schools of thought are faith based, as a result. We each are entitled to our own beliefs, but in atheistic or agnostic beliefs...I will just remain a Bible thumping creation pusher and when you die, you'll still have your "dignity" (boy will it be important then). In my beliefs...the consequences are much worse. I just pray that you don't have to suffer those consequences.
I'll try to find an article about the whole genetic tracing thing...in the meantime I have a Java assignment due at 5 and it's not done!
Do you mind if I email it to you?
Have you ever been to a court trial? Everyone sees things in different ways...and in many ways they are all correct observations.
You keep complaining over what CHRISTIANS are doing. Don't judge a philosophy based on its abuses.
Levitical law detailed many, many things. It provided a means for a nomadic group of people to live in the desert and remain healthy. It also provided a means for a people to also show their true faith in God through obeying his laws.
Yes, without question, Orthodox Jews follow the Bible to a far more degree than Christian churches. Of course, they don't follow the New Testament, which is the most important part of the Christian church. Christian churches say that the New Testament law "overrides" Levitical law, but that doesn't discount it as having no modern application.
Did you ever think of why there were such strict laws concerning milk and meat? I am pretty sure that cooking methods weren't too good back then and I am almost certain they weren't homogenizing milk. By making cloth of one fabric, you maintain the consistency and strength of the fabric. With something like Levitical law, it is CRITICAL to consider the circumstances under which the laws were applied.
PI being 3? 4 Legged birds? What are you talking about? I'd love to give you an explanation for the scripture that references this but I honestly don't remember reading any like this.
Archaeologists found evidence of a great flood a few years ago when it was estimated that the Mediterranean Sea broke a natural damn and flooded into the Sea to the East of Mesopotamia. Could this be evidence of the great flood that covered all of the earth? What exactly is "all of the earth"?
And yes, I honestly want you to interpret the Bible for yourself.
As far as inbreeding goes, genetic scientists confirmed that all human beings came from a pair around a quarter million years ago (using modern estimations of previous human life expectancy) in sub-Saharan Africa. The ill effects of in-breeding go away after several generations of in-breeding, which is why Dogs and Cats can do it without any problem.
At odds with observable reality? Where?
A great flood is mentioned among many many different societies. Even aboriginal culture made reference to an incredible, ancient flood.
Count the legs of a grasshopper...what are you talking about?
You should really read and attempt to interpret the Bible for yourself. I'll pray for you.
Because it's as good as we have. People still use Macs you know.
Evolution is a faith based belief too. At least Christians acknowledge the fact that they worship a belief grounded in faith.
Someone please explain to me how game manufacturers benefit from charging a dollar to play a game. There was a Sega Star Wars Arcade game here at a local place that cost $1 per play. It sat empty 99.9% of the time. After it got a bit older and there were problems with the monitor, the price was cut to a quarter a play and now you have to wait in line to play...despite the fact that there is a nasty mark on the screen.
When I was very young (6 or 7 years old), I would get $1 to play each time I went to the arcade. I had to stand on one of the little boosters to even reach the controls. I could enjoy myself for quite a bit of time despite my limited game playing skills, however, now that dollar would last 5 minutes as it would be fed into a game that is DESIGNED to kill me/beat me/take my money after a certain period of time.
As Chesterton said: the sad thing about someone who doesn't believe in God is not that they believe in nothing...it's that they'll believe in anything!
The theory of evolution is usually the primary culprit for many people's atheistic beliefs. The theory is based on a handful of archaeological finds and carbon dating. Carbon dating completely and absolutely depends on certain conditions being constant over a great period of time, which may or may not have been the case. Carbon dating has been shown to be very unreliable past 10,000 years or so.
Evolution depends on a species' progression over a great period of time, and that's where carbon dating comes in. Carbon dating is the most trusted means of deducing what time period these archaeological findings originate from. If carbon dating isn't reliable, then how could evolution be reliable?
What evolutionists have done is the equivalent of taking 5 puzzle pieces of a 1000 piece puzzle, arranged them where they think they might have fit. Over time it has been figured out that many of those pieces probably didn't go where they were originally placed so they were moved elsewhere. The key is, those pieces are adjusted to fit a preconcieved notion of how the entire picture looks.
These type of adjustments are the same exact thing that many Christians have done in order to fit scientific findings into the biblical account of creation. The difference is, those people believing that God created everything admit that they have faith in their beliefs. Evolutions feel that evolution is scientific fact. Basically, many people believe totally in evolution because it seems to make sense.
This doesn't necessarily make either side correct. Personally, I don't see any reason why creationist views and evolutionist views can't meet in the middle somewhere. After all, if God chose to create our existing world through evolutionary means, it would have been a stroke of genius, wouldn't it?
At least those acknowledge that it is all about faith. Atheism as a faith based belief too. That was the arrogance that I was referring to.
I stand corrected. My history book had said only two of the deaths were directly related to the Salem witch trials.
19? 6?
That would include scientology. However, Scientology falls on it's face just fine even when considering it's merits.
I admire your faith in the unfounded belief of the lack of existence of the "invisible man", as you put it. It is impressive to see that someone as enlightened as yourself has figured it all out.
How arrogant...
Give it a try
BTW...I think 2 people died at the Salem witch trials. When are people going to get over that one.
I don't think you'll ever confuse CmdrTaco and maturity. Have you read an interview with him lately? All of his interviews read like an IRC log with a couple of adolescent haX0rs mouthing off.
I don't remember who said that but I think it's important to separate the actions of man from the religion. In scientology's case, it can be discredited adequately on its merits. There is no need to make fun of Tom Cruise too.
I firmly believe that the story told in the Bible is 100% fact. God revealed his creation of the universe to a shepherd in the wilderness of the Sinai several thousand years ago...how exactly would you go about telling how a computer works much less how the world was created? How would you go about describing such a thing to a people who were slaves?
In the Bible it says a thousand years is as if it were a day to God. Some also believe it's possible that the seven days represents the length of time in which God revealed how he created the universe to Moses. Could this be a valid explanation for what is written in the Bible in Genesis 1?
That article basically says See they have alot of genes that are same! as if it was something we didn't already know. Guess what?!? Apes and humans are alot alike! Whoop-de-do. I can see that at http://www.monkeys.com
If Christians (which I am one of) are so stupid and gullible to believe in evolution then why do you all give them so much lip service? Why do some of you have such an intense hatred for Christianity?
If you want to hear some really really awesome preaching/lecturing that addresses this issue and many more http://www.rzim.org
Thanks for the review...I'll be avoiding this one (I'm STILL pissed about M2M. It will be on MST4K). Waterworld was pretty good though. I think people expected way too much and didn't get it and they feel burned. The same thing happened to SW Episode 1.
Believing one over the other is a personal matter...but if you choose to believe neither then you have absolutely nothing to gain. Also, if you honestly do believe that tree dancing is the means of attaining eternal salvation and you don't tell me about it because you 'respect' my beliefs then you have condemned me to tree dancing hell. My point is that any time you condemn a Christian for 'shoving their beliefs down my throat' at least acknowledge that the reason they did it was because they cared enough for you to take the time to share their beliefs. I'm not at all saying that you have done this, it's just that your post made me think of an excellent point. Religion is called a FAITH for a reason and you won't be able to rationalize any belief system and still consider it a religion. Personal faith is what is at the crux of the matter.
No...it was the gnomes that did it.
I don't see how any one person can 'ruin' the economy. Bush proposes an across the board tax cut, enabling EVERYONE who pays taxes to keep more of their own money. I know for sure if I had more of my money, I'd spend it and most others would as well. The economy is *too* good right now to begin with. People are throwing money into companies that haven't turned a profit and never will. I think the economy isn't going to grow as rapidly as it has in the past couple of years. Things are going to level off and maintain some degree of stability. Anything Bush does while in office concerning the economy won't have any effect for 5-10 years minimum anyways. Do you ever think anything you post through or do you just like making blatant and blind accusations?
Your dignity and self respect is worth that much to you?
http://encarta.msn.com/find/Concise.asp?z=1&pg=2&t i=761571262&cid=3#p3
One thing I never understood from atheism was the fact that...if I am wrong (I am a Christian) and atheists are right then I'll end up worm food and my existence will be over, just like everyone else. If I'm right in my beliefs then atheists have a lot to lose. I can't figure out what people have to gain by being atheists. Is some slanted sense of pride worth that much to you?
My reply was just an explanation of why Bush worded the question the way he did...and it was legitimate.
The difference I am referring to has to do with the plan of salvation. Most protestant denominations (Methodists, Baptists, etc.) believe that the only way to attain salvation is to trust that Jesus is God and that he was killed as a sacrifice for everyone's sin and the only way to enter heaven is by believing in him (my belief). Mormons believe that Jesus wasn't the son of God and that the Bible is in err. They believe that the Book of Mormon is the true word of God and supercedes the Bible. They also believe that women are eternally pregnant in heaven and that everyone goes to heaven except for people who were Mormon and converted to another religion. Muslims believe that Jesus was a teacher and prophet but that he isn't the son of God. Many religions believe that you attain salvation by works and sacraments. Jews believe that Jesus was not the Messiah and are still awaiting for the Messiah's arrival. Since that acquisition of salvation is the most important (BY FAR) part of religion and determines whether or not a person goes to heaven or hell, one would think that the differences are significant and important. I think followers of each of the religious groups I mentioned believe that a person should love everyone and have respect for them. However, simply having "a healthy respect for the people we're stuck sharing this rock with..." will do absolutely nothing on its own.
The Law of Conservation of Mass-Energy states that matter cannot be created nor destroyed...yet we are surrounded by matter. The only logical thing would be to assume a supernatural source was responsible for the existence of all of this matter (it is as good as any theory anyone else has chosen to put forward). Therefore, it is illogical to be an atheist.