You should consider getting a girlfriend, and if you already have one, consider going to the gym so you can get a hotter one and we don't need to read you fanboi whining. We get it: You like Siri. I think it's a tool for simpletons and morons who haven't figured out how to google "Locksmiths" and their zip code yet.
That was you.
I think you've lost any ability to be taken seriously when telling other people they're condescending, yeah? agreed.
Talking to your phone is *exactly* like talking to a person. Hell it's not even an analogy because it's the same damn thing
What doesn't seem completely safe to me is interacting, face-down
Oh, we agree then... we're all done here. Since you've clearly never used Siri I won't waste anymore time with you either.
I have that, it's done through my native mail client that handles ALL of my accounts. The idea of having a separate app for each email account is just... wow...
I think your last sentence is where my "app store context" comes in. I have been given absolutely no (useful) evidence or reason by anyone to believe that Apple will ever disable installs outside of the app store. Since I have absolutely no reason to believe that it will happen, I don't waste any time arguing the hypotheticals of what would happen if it did.
So to follow from that, the app store for me is a quick place to get fully approved (specifically, approvable) apps. I'm afraid I won't have much luck giving you a clear idea of what exactly my context for it is, but I'll talk on the couple examples you provided and hope that gets us started:
Accessing arbitrary filesystem locations: Apple can't make any serious attempt to ensure this is secure. As such, I don't expect it to show up in the officially curated, approved list of programs.
Accessing (non-usb) peripherals I have no idea why they're choosing to (only) let you access usb devices, truly none. Bluetooth especially strikes me as odd, but I would imagine if there is enough developer demand for it that they will add support? I only see this making sense as an all or nothing; they want to prevent all access for security, or they figure it's all allowable. This really doesn't make sense to me.
The layered screenshots example I'd want to know for sure wasn't possible before I went either way on it. However if it works the way I imagine it does I could see a rationale; presumably it's gathering data from other apps (window metrics, specifically) to get the individual shots, and I could see that being something to prevent. I'm talking out of my ass here though.
Apple Events I'm afraid I'm not equipped to talk on this point; I feel that if you're writing an app in native objective C you don't need AppleScript. I'm probably missing something and I'd welcome a knock with the ol' clue stick.
Third party plugins This one I fully understand, they don't want to approve an app as safe and then have a plugin mess it all up. in-app sales can take care of such features as individually approved extensions.
I guess that might sum up my "app store context" better than I thought... For something to be approved by apple, it first has to be approvable. Plugins that change the nature of the program can't be meaningfully approved, neither can arbitrary FS access.. etc.
I'm sure there *are* things that aren't allowed that probably should be, one hopes that as those come up Apple responds by adding them.
But all of this is underscored by the fact that until apple actually does it I give absolutely no weight to the possibility of macs being restricted to app store only.
Second: why in gods name would I need a gmail *app* on my mac? talk about redundant. But to your larger point, if apple f***s them around, google is free to distribute it outside the app store.
Third: jailbreaking? OS X buddy, not iOS.
Fourth: OS X, not iOS. Also you can look up a few comments to see my stance on unapproved apps on iPhone/Pad/Pod
Same thing I said to the other reply here, I agree but don't see it as an issue.
I'm a WIND customer; I installed their application to use my mobile internet stick. With the new app store rules that app may or may not be allowed. It also doesn't matter because it was a pre-loaded installer on the device, not an app store app.
There has/will always be things that don't fall under the App Store. Until the day they restrict anything non-app-store from being installed, I say this is perfectly acceptable. If that day comes, access to thunderbolt devices will be really low on the very long list of reasons it's bad.
1. Except that no one said it was never useful. That was created by you.
And this won't change in the next two years. So that's why this 2 year head start (assuming that's not hugely over-estimated) is a head start in a direction that's dead to begin with.
So you didn't bother to read the previous posts... Okay, I'll humour you anyways:
2. words of ignorance re: appointments
I use exchange, if I move an appointment/meeting, everyone involved is notified. If they have conflicts, they propose a new time and I'm notified. This cycle repeats until an agreeable time is reached.
3. ignorance involving hypotheticals
I know exactly how useful Siri is. I USE IT
4. your perspective about something completely unrelated
I really, really don't care. Apple has been years ahead of Android since the very beginning, that's an objective fact and you can perspective about it all you want. This article is about Siri.
5. an excuse to use the word fanboy
You're unintelligence is showing, better plug that leak.
Oh I don't doubt that, but I don't see it as much of a problem either.
I can't think of any apps that would really need access to things not on that list (keeping in mind that mounted hard drives would presumably come under filesystem) that still make sense in the app store context.
I won't be so outlandish as to claim they don't exist, but I think it's a small enough niche that it falls under the "screw it, they can exist outside the app store"
Firstly, as I said them locking down macs to only-appstore apps is completely irrelevant here; that would be bad for MANY reasons.
This really shouldn't delay launches in any substantial way. You have to provide details for why you need access to (usb/filesystem/etc) when you submit. They can easily reference those against your apps stated goal and determine the appropriateness.
A video editing app looking to use the usb ports? no problem, let it through. A joke-a-day calendar trying to store stuff outside it's app folder, or access your contacts? not unless they've got a great rationale for it.
You can request permissions for them, if your app is deemed to have valid use for it they will grant it.
In the meantime, apps that *don't* have valid use for those things, will not be permitted to use them
I have to add the disclaimer here that although I am an iOS registered developer, I am not an OS X. I cannot actually access the document from apple directly so I am going on what I can read elsewhere.
I find it exceptionally unlikely that Apple will ever completely disallow access to peripherals, since that would be stupid.
I think ultimately, I should be able to fire up XCode, and set my device up in a mode that allows me to install non-approved apps (Perhaps itunes, rather than XCode).
On the other hand, I'd never use it. There are insufficient diagnostic abilities on the device for me to determine if it's doing something shady, so I simply wouldn't actually use it.
The only thing I would ultimately end up using it for is putting my own apps on the phone, but I can do that for $99 a year, and frankly that's not breaking the bank. It *is* needless, but I'm not going to get real worked up about it.
We previously reported Keck telescope observations suggesting a smaller value of the fine structure constant α at high redshift. New Very Large Telescope (VLT) data, probing a different direction in the Universe, shows an inverse evolution;
Not to say they definitely *don't* have something, but given that this represents a 180 of their previous report, I'm not going to jump up and down just yet.
I'm actually far happier when apps are clean and well controlled in terms of what they put where, Apple is providing an assurance that this *will* be the case for officially approved apps.
Good on them.
Whether or not they eventually disable applications from outside the App Store is completely irrelevant to this move.
You are a very angry person, you should figure out what you hate about yourself and work on it.
But since you did actually (aside from the ignorance and stupidity) make a point, I shall reply:
Who the fuck are you to tell me what I can and can't do while running?
Also, I trust that you will never carry another person in your vehicle at any time. You will also never take public transit wherein the driver is not completely separated from the passengers.
delinear is claiming that there's nothing truly useful one can do with Siri, while driving
Exactly, and I gave one in my post:
Not to mention the fact that it *is* quicker for me to say "Siri, move my next appointment to 2:30" than actually do it myself.
Since your (delinear) reply completely ignored the relevant point in my post and proceeded to trash a VERY poor strawman, I labelled you a moron and called you out as such.
My reply was perfectly reasonable; yours was not.
P.S. Coming to the defence of an idiot in a random, low rated thread that is already several layers deep is the unlikely scenario. By comparison you being the same person satisfies Occam's razor quite nicely.
Using a second account to come to the aid of your first doesn't make you any less stupid.
When someone actually responds to what I write, I tend to respond in kind. When someone says something completely unrelated, belligerent and fantastically stupid, I call them out on it.
See, technology makes life easier; that includes for people who don't fully understand it. Until such time as you know everything about every technology you use you must by the logic you eluded to stop using it.
I doubt very much you have a full knowledge of the internal combustion engine, nuclear fission and the control mechanisms surrounding it, wireless protocols and supporting equipment, etc, etc, etc.
Ever said "hmm, the cell tower must be down?" or "Power's out". You are the same person you're complaining about. The power isn't out, one of the many transformers is having one of hundreds of problems or a line is severed, etc. etc. The cell tower isn't "down", the antenna is obscured, or the amplifier has one of hundreds of failures possible, maybe the problem isn't at the tower at all.
Now do you understand how much of a dumbass you are? I hope so, and I hope you do go and live with the amish; I won't have to deal with you then.
On an unrelated note how is using gnome or pre-packaged android mods supposed to make me think you're a super user? My friend who knows jack shit about computers fits your exact description.
The thing is, DARPA is not interested in controlling your phone. Apple has many very smart people, and the context in which an AI assistant on your phone/tablet is useful has sufficiently little overlap with anything DARPA is interested in that there is much room for improvement.
There are many people working on AI as a whole. There are very few that are working on personal assistant for your phone AI; there just isn't money (grant or otherwise) there. Apple could fix that and bring a fair bit of evolution to a very limited area of the field.
See, that has been proven wrong time and time and time again.
Talking with another person *in* the car is far more dangerous than talking with another person on the phone. You have a natural tendency to look at the person you are talking to, when they're coming from speakers located in front of you that's fine. When they're sitting beside you that's bad.
I disagree, and one of my other comments (in another part of the thread) shows that.
I think Siri is useful in ~5% of situations. I don't drive 8 hours a day, and I don't run 8 hours a day.
5% usefulness is great, and in time I think that will improve some, possibly aided by Siri becoming more than just a voice-controlled personal assistant.
I consider an app to be worth purchasing (depending on price) and useful if I use it more than once a week. Siri passes that metric with flying colours.
I never suggested, and in no way implied, that Siri was useful all of the time (how could it be?). That's a far cry from it never being useful.
Slashdot Mirror
You should consider getting a girlfriend, and if you already have one, consider going to the gym so you can get a hotter one and we don't need to read you fanboi whining. We get it: You like Siri. I think it's a tool for simpletons and morons who haven't figured out how to google "Locksmiths" and their zip code yet.
That was you.
I think you've lost any ability to be taken seriously when telling other people they're condescending, yeah? agreed.
Talking to your phone is *exactly* like talking to a person. Hell it's not even an analogy because it's the same damn thing
What doesn't seem completely safe to me is interacting, face-down
Oh, we agree then... we're all done here. Since you've clearly never used Siri I won't waste anymore time with you either.
You honestly can't see a comparison between talking to your phone, and talking to a person?
I mean... there's clueless, and there's just bloody hopeless.
I have that, it's done through my native mail client that handles ALL of my accounts. The idea of having a separate app for each email account is just... wow...
I think your last sentence is where my "app store context" comes in. I have been given absolutely no (useful) evidence or reason by anyone to believe that Apple will ever disable installs outside of the app store. Since I have absolutely no reason to believe that it will happen, I don't waste any time arguing the hypotheticals of what would happen if it did.
So to follow from that, the app store for me is a quick place to get fully approved (specifically, approvable) apps. I'm afraid I won't have much luck giving you a clear idea of what exactly my context for it is, but I'll talk on the couple examples you provided and hope that gets us started:
Accessing arbitrary filesystem locations: Apple can't make any serious attempt to ensure this is secure. As such, I don't expect it to show up in the officially curated, approved list of programs.
Accessing (non-usb) peripherals I have no idea why they're choosing to (only) let you access usb devices, truly none. Bluetooth especially strikes me as odd, but I would imagine if there is enough developer demand for it that they will add support? I only see this making sense as an all or nothing; they want to prevent all access for security, or they figure it's all allowable. This really doesn't make sense to me.
The layered screenshots example I'd want to know for sure wasn't possible before I went either way on it. However if it works the way I imagine it does I could see a rationale; presumably it's gathering data from other apps (window metrics, specifically) to get the individual shots, and I could see that being something to prevent. I'm talking out of my ass here though.
Apple Events I'm afraid I'm not equipped to talk on this point; I feel that if you're writing an app in native objective C you don't need AppleScript. I'm probably missing something and I'd welcome a knock with the ol' clue stick.
Third party plugins This one I fully understand, they don't want to approve an app as safe and then have a plugin mess it all up. in-app sales can take care of such features as individually approved extensions.
I guess that might sum up my "app store context" better than I thought... For something to be approved by apple, it first has to be approvable. Plugins that change the nature of the program can't be meaningfully approved, neither can arbitrary FS access.. etc.
I'm sure there *are* things that aren't allowed that probably should be, one hopes that as those come up Apple responds by adding them.
But all of this is underscored by the fact that until apple actually does it I give absolutely no weight to the possibility of macs being restricted to app store only.
First: OS X app store, not iOS.
Second: why in gods name would I need a gmail *app* on my mac? talk about redundant. But to your larger point, if apple f***s them around, google is free to distribute it outside the app store.
Third: jailbreaking? OS X buddy, not iOS.
Fourth: OS X, not iOS. Also you can look up a few comments to see my stance on unapproved apps on iPhone/Pad/Pod
You were beaten to the punch ;)
Same thing I said to the other reply here, I agree but don't see it as an issue.
I'm a WIND customer; I installed their application to use my mobile internet stick. With the new app store rules that app may or may not be allowed. It also doesn't matter because it was a pre-loaded installer on the device, not an app store app.
There has/will always be things that don't fall under the App Store. Until the day they restrict anything non-app-store from being installed, I say this is perfectly acceptable. If that day comes, access to thunderbolt devices will be really low on the very long list of reasons it's bad.
If you aren't an idiot, I won't be an asshole. That's actually how it works, you should try it.
What kind of response do you expect when you spew garbage that is completely unrelated to the post that you're replying to?
1. Except that no one said it was never useful. That was created by you.
And this won't change in the next two years. So that's why this 2 year head start (assuming that's not hugely over-estimated) is a head start in a direction that's dead to begin with.
So you didn't bother to read the previous posts... Okay, I'll humour you anyways:
2. words of ignorance re: appointments
I use exchange, if I move an appointment/meeting, everyone involved is notified. If they have conflicts, they propose a new time and I'm notified. This cycle repeats until an agreeable time is reached.
3. ignorance involving hypotheticals
I know exactly how useful Siri is. I USE IT
4. your perspective about something completely unrelated
I really, really don't care. Apple has been years ahead of Android since the very beginning, that's an objective fact and you can perspective about it all you want. This article is about Siri.
5. an excuse to use the word fanboy
You're unintelligence is showing, better plug that leak.
Nor did I in any way state that it was.
Read. My. Fucking. Post.
Then try not putting words in that I didn't write.
Then try not being an idiot.
Follow those steps, and we'll all be happier.
Oh I don't doubt that, but I don't see it as much of a problem either.
I can't think of any apps that would really need access to things not on that list (keeping in mind that mounted hard drives would presumably come under filesystem) that still make sense in the app store context.
I won't be so outlandish as to claim they don't exist, but I think it's a small enough niche that it falls under the "screw it, they can exist outside the app store"
Firstly, as I said them locking down macs to only-appstore apps is completely irrelevant here; that would be bad for MANY reasons.
This really shouldn't delay launches in any substantial way. You have to provide details for why you need access to (usb/filesystem/etc) when you submit. They can easily reference those against your apps stated goal and determine the appropriateness.
A video editing app looking to use the usb ports? no problem, let it through. A joke-a-day calendar trying to store stuff outside it's app folder, or access your contacts? not unless they've got a great rationale for it.
You can request permissions for them, if your app is deemed to have valid use for it they will grant it.
In the meantime, apps that *don't* have valid use for those things, will not be permitted to use them
I have to add the disclaimer here that although I am an iOS registered developer, I am not an OS X. I cannot actually access the document from apple directly so I am going on what I can read elsewhere.
I find it exceptionally unlikely that Apple will ever completely disallow access to peripherals, since that would be stupid.
I very passively agree with this sentiment.
I think ultimately, I should be able to fire up XCode, and set my device up in a mode that allows me to install non-approved apps (Perhaps itunes, rather than XCode).
On the other hand, I'd never use it. There are insufficient diagnostic abilities on the device for me to determine if it's doing something shady, so I simply wouldn't actually use it.
The only thing I would ultimately end up using it for is putting my own apps on the phone, but I can do that for $99 a year, and frankly that's not breaking the bank. It *is* needless, but I'm not going to get real worked up about it.
We previously reported Keck telescope observations suggesting a smaller value of the fine structure constant α at high redshift. New Very Large Telescope (VLT) data, probing a different direction in the Universe, shows an inverse evolution;
Not to say they definitely *don't* have something, but given that this represents a 180 of their previous report, I'm not going to jump up and down just yet.
I fail to see any problem with this.
I'm actually far happier when apps are clean and well controlled in terms of what they put where, Apple is providing an assurance that this *will* be the case for officially approved apps.
Good on them.
Whether or not they eventually disable applications from outside the App Store is completely irrelevant to this move.
You are a very angry person, you should figure out what you hate about yourself and work on it.
But since you did actually (aside from the ignorance and stupidity) make a point, I shall reply:
Who the fuck are you to tell me what I can and can't do while running?
Also, I trust that you will never carry another person in your vehicle at any time. You will also never take public transit wherein the driver is not completely separated from the passengers.
delinear is claiming that there's nothing truly useful one can do with Siri, while driving
Exactly, and I gave one in my post:
Not to mention the fact that it *is* quicker for me to say "Siri, move my next appointment to 2:30" than actually do it myself.
Since your (delinear) reply completely ignored the relevant point in my post and proceeded to trash a VERY poor strawman, I labelled you a moron and called you out as such.
My reply was perfectly reasonable; yours was not.
P.S. Coming to the defence of an idiot in a random, low rated thread that is already several layers deep is the unlikely scenario. By comparison you being the same person satisfies Occam's razor quite nicely.
Using a second account to come to the aid of your first doesn't make you any less stupid.
When someone actually responds to what I write, I tend to respond in kind. When someone says something completely unrelated, belligerent and fantastically stupid, I call them out on it.
Actually yes, I did mean you.
See, technology makes life easier; that includes for people who don't fully understand it. Until such time as you know everything about every technology you use you must by the logic you eluded to stop using it.
I doubt very much you have a full knowledge of the internal combustion engine, nuclear fission and the control mechanisms surrounding it, wireless protocols and supporting equipment, etc, etc, etc.
Ever said "hmm, the cell tower must be down?" or "Power's out". You are the same person you're complaining about. The power isn't out, one of the many transformers is having one of hundreds of problems or a line is severed, etc. etc. The cell tower isn't "down", the antenna is obscured, or the amplifier has one of hundreds of failures possible, maybe the problem isn't at the tower at all.
Now do you understand how much of a dumbass you are? I hope so, and I hope you do go and live with the amish; I won't have to deal with you then.
On an unrelated note how is using gnome or pre-packaged android mods supposed to make me think you're a super user? My friend who knows jack shit about computers fits your exact description.
Wow, another gem of human intelligence.
You should look up analogy. Or better yet, lock yourself in a room away from society until you master basic reason.
You needn't worry, as it stands Siri is entirely optional and in no way required to do anything on the device.
Then your issue is not with Siri, but with technology as a whole. You have no business being on this site and should leave now.
I hear the amish are nice.
Ah, well... parts of what you say are true.
The thing is, DARPA is not interested in controlling your phone. Apple has many very smart people, and the context in which an AI assistant on your phone/tablet is useful has sufficiently little overlap with anything DARPA is interested in that there is much room for improvement.
There are many people working on AI as a whole. There are very few that are working on personal assistant for your phone AI; there just isn't money (grant or otherwise) there. Apple could fix that and bring a fair bit of evolution to a very limited area of the field.
See, that has been proven wrong time and time and time again.
Talking with another person *in* the car is far more dangerous than talking with another person on the phone. You have a natural tendency to look at the person you are talking to, when they're coming from speakers located in front of you that's fine. When they're sitting beside you that's bad.
I disagree, and one of my other comments (in another part of the thread) shows that.
I think Siri is useful in ~5% of situations. I don't drive 8 hours a day, and I don't run 8 hours a day.
5% usefulness is great, and in time I think that will improve some, possibly aided by Siri becoming more than just a voice-controlled personal assistant.
I consider an app to be worth purchasing (depending on price) and useful if I use it more than once a week. Siri passes that metric with flying colours.
I never suggested, and in no way implied, that Siri was useful all of the time (how could it be?). That's a far cry from it never being useful.