Switzerland has the lowest violent crime and gun related crime in the entire world, they have been number 1 for decades. Yet the twist is in Switzerland citizens are required to own a gun. All citizens are given a gun, ammunition and have annual training.
Just FYI Switzerland has strict controls on guns and ammunition, the ammunition comes in cans and is accounted for regularly if the can is opened that's a fine there, any bullets missing must be accounted for. If there's a shooting and your ammunition is missing (they search everyone in the vicinity after a shooting) then you're automatically a suspect. The NRA does not endorse Switzerland style gun controls. But you're right with the last bit, the reason Switzerland has low violent crime has nothing to do with gun control and everything to do with how they take care of their people. Fortunately if you look at the world violent crime rates they're dropping everywhere (well everywhere except Australia) so maybe some day we'll all be as low as Switzerland is now and we can all strive to attain Switzerland's new ultra low violent crime rate consisting of drive by resurrections!
currently in my State, registration and background checks for Rifles don't exist, they do for Hand Guns.
You must not live in the US then, dealers must perform a background check on all cartridge weapons, only black powder guns and airguns are exempt from that requirement.
I can go down town to a Pawn shop, walk in and walk out with a crippled AK47, come home and order some parts...and have a fully automatic weapon to mow down some folks I'm pissed at.
Well that and don't forget your visit to the machine shop, also don't be surprised when the atf shows up at the same time as your parts. They tend to keep a close watch on parts that can be used to make an automatic weapon. Have them shipped to a name and address not on the list of registered machine guns and they take an interest in it.
I am under firm belief the second amendment pertains to Law enforcement and Military usage.
The second amendment applies to the people and the militia, look it up it uses both of those terms, it doesn't say military or law enforcement in it. Further the guys who came up with the second amendment... said things like
"The right of the people to keep and bear... arms shall not infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." - James Madison, I Annuals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).
(emphasis mine)
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public servants." - George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426.
Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American.... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." - Tench Coxe
"... the British Parliament was advised, by an artful man to disarm the people that was the best and most effective way to enslave the people - but they should not do it openly; but to weaken them and let them sink gradually, by totally disusing and neglecting the militia." - George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, 1778.
If you look at it they intended for the second amendment to apply to everyone EXCEPT for law enforcement and the military. Law Enforcement officers and military members are not allowed to bear whatever arms they please and are required to bear arms in accordance with the respective policies governing use of arms.
The United States Supreme Court even went so far as to disconnect the militia requirement (and if you read the history of the second amendment this makes sense that clause was originally there to protect people who had religious reasons for refusing to bear arms and ended up neutered to prevent abuses of that clause by the government to disarm its people)
the Supreme court had this to say in Heller V. DC
The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a
firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for
traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.
and on the militia clause
The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but
does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative
clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it
connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms
There were quite a few incidences of break ins where when caught the offender admitted to using the list to do their shopping and some more breakins where the place was trashed and nothing disappeared but the gun safe. Further we have had quite a few reports of corrections officers being threatened by inmates who used the map to find out where the officers live.
When did netflix start their streaming service though? they were doing dvd rentals back in 97, they didnt start unlimited streaming till 2008 at some point between 97 and 2008 they offered a limited streaming plan (1 hour per dollar you spent on your plan) I'm guessing it was closer to 2008 than 97 that they launched that.
You say this replying to a story about a law that was posted as a knee jerk reaction to an outlier that was cherry picked because they used an "assault weapon.".... Reality tends to be based on what happens with the vast majority. The vast majority of gun owners are responsible people who put safety first.
Federal funding for unbiased studies was effectively banned, the cdc is not allowed to publish pro gun materials, as such any study they do is a risk for them.
The article I linked to covers how the author of the study you cited admits hes biased, how is pointing out someones own admission of fault a bias?
Here in Aussie we have much stricter gun laws and guess what by proportion we have less crimes committed with guns. It's a no brainier.
Those who live in glass houses ought not throw stones. While the rest of the world has a reducing violent crime rate Australia's actually going up and has always been around 2x the rate of the us and is quickly approaching 3x the rate of the us.
Has the NRA actually advocated for attempting to prevent people with mental problems from getting them? or are those people advocating that we improve the nature of the mental health care. Most of the people I've heard saying we need to do something about the mental health system say we shouldn't have additional restrictions on guns to the mentally ill, playing up that angle tends to discourage them from getting the help they need as they then have a fear of losing their rights. The responsibility for keeping the mental ill falls to those people who have guns they might obtain. Keep your own guns locked up and help your family get the help they need.
- In the United States, every year, more than 100,000 people are shot or killed with a gun. (Source bradycampaign.org)
That's.03% of the total population of the us. Only 11,493 of those are homicides (down to.00353025 now). Twice as many people die from falling unintentionally as die from guns every year. Unintentional poisoning kills 3x as many Alcohol abuse kills almost 10x as many. Guns are low on the list of killers.
- An estimated 41% of gun-related homicides and 94% of gun-related suicides would not occur under the same circumstances had no guns been present (Wiebe, Douglas J. PhD. “Homicide and Suicide Risks Associated With Firearms in the Home: A National Case-Control Study,” Annals of Emergency Medicine 41 (2003): 771-82.)
I thought we were going for real world statistics not made up numbers? estimate is another word for made up.
- A gun in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in a completed or attempted suicide (11x), criminal assault or homicide (7x), or unintentional shooting death or injury (4x) than to be used in a self-defense shooting. (Kellermann, Arthur L. et al., “Injuries and Deaths Due to Firearms in the Home,” Journal of Trauma, Injury, Infection, and Critical Care, 45(2) (1998): 263-267)
I'd finish out the rest of your list but I'm alas out of time. But the core point is guns just don't kill as many people are you'd like to claim and banning them won't do any better, the violent crime rate in the uk where guns are banned is 4x that of the us, worse yet gun crime has doubled since they banned guns.
In the USA, pretty much anyone can buy or sell a gun with little or no safety or sanity check, particularly at gun shows;
Well except that in order for you to buy a gun from a dealer (this includes at gun shows) you must fill out paperwork and pass a background check, the government doesn't want to give citizens the ability to do background checks so in order to allow people to sell their own property (imagine that you have the right to sell your stuff) they allow private sales without a background check (note if you have reason to believe the person you are selling to is a prohibited person you are liable for selling it to them).
kids clearly have easy access to them, as schools find it necessary to check for them on entry.
Schools are checking for drugs not guns generally, they just catch guns at those checkpoints.
Reloading a revolver fast is easy, drop out the old clip drop in the new one, hows that any slower than dropping the magazine out of a semi auto and slamming in a new one?
There's no reason that a civilian needs an AK-47/74/AR-15 (a military issue with full auto mode disabled)
(Emphasis added)
Actually the receivers on an ar-15 and a m16 are different, the m16 receiver has an area milled out for the auto seer as well as a third hole for the automatic fire control group. Auto mode isn't just disabled the physical parts for the full auto mode won't fit. The advantages of an ar-15 in "legitimate" uses are numerous. For hunting having a modular platform that is easy to maintain and lightweight is an obvious plus. The ability to switch between higher powered larger caliber rounds (like the 50 beowulf or.243 wssm) and lower power rimfire rounds (like.22lr) with nothing but your fingers means the same gun can be used for both large game and small game hunting. Being lightweight means it's easier to carry if you like longer trips without seeing civilization. Easy to maintain is another obvious benefit as... well it's just darned easy to maintain an ar-15.
The last revolution on American soil was actually fought by military guys returning from world war 2 and overthrowing the local corrupt government in Athens Tennessee
A quick search has not revealed any successful incidents of civilians stopping mass-shootings with their own guns. Off-duty police and military have, but I can't find evidence of civilians without military or police training doing it.
There was the Oregon mall shooting where the offender retreated when a ccw permit holder pulled their weapon.
Then I believe it was the university of texas clock tower shooting where many of the students brought out their own firearms and began firing back thus keeping the offender pinned down and unable to continue his killing spree while police closed in
Weird, every time I've been to a gun show the dealers require background checks, where is this that you're going where you can buy a gun from a licensed dealer at a gun show without a background check?
Ban ladders, only licensed professionals should be climbing up high any way. You'll save twice as many lives (guns killed about 11,000 people last year unexpected falls killed 24,000 people) and you won't prevent anyone from exercising their right to self defense.
Slashdot Mirror
Try reading the thread you're posting in.
Switzerland has the lowest violent crime and gun related crime in the entire world, they have been number 1 for decades. Yet the twist is in Switzerland citizens are required to own a gun. All citizens are given a gun, ammunition and have annual training.
Just FYI Switzerland has strict controls on guns and ammunition, the ammunition comes in cans and is accounted for regularly if the can is opened that's a fine there, any bullets missing must be accounted for. If there's a shooting and your ammunition is missing (they search everyone in the vicinity after a shooting) then you're automatically a suspect. The NRA does not endorse Switzerland style gun controls. But you're right with the last bit, the reason Switzerland has low violent crime has nothing to do with gun control and everything to do with how they take care of their people. Fortunately if you look at the world violent crime rates they're dropping everywhere (well everywhere except Australia) so maybe some day we'll all be as low as Switzerland is now and we can all strive to attain Switzerland's new ultra low violent crime rate consisting of drive by resurrections!
currently in my State, registration and background checks for Rifles don't exist, they do for Hand Guns.
You must not live in the US then, dealers must perform a background check on all cartridge weapons, only black powder guns and airguns are exempt from that requirement.
I can go down town to a Pawn shop, walk in and walk out with a crippled AK47, come home and order some parts...and have a fully automatic weapon to mow down some folks I'm pissed at.
Well that and don't forget your visit to the machine shop, also don't be surprised when the atf shows up at the same time as your parts. They tend to keep a close watch on parts that can be used to make an automatic weapon. Have them shipped to a name and address not on the list of registered machine guns and they take an interest in it.
I am under firm belief the second amendment pertains to Law enforcement and Military usage.
The second amendment applies to the people and the militia, look it up it uses both of those terms, it doesn't say military or law enforcement in it. Further the guys who came up with the second amendment... said things like
"The right of the people to keep and bear... arms shall not infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." - James Madison, I Annuals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).
(emphasis mine)
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public servants." - George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426.
Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American.... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." - Tench Coxe
"... the British Parliament was advised, by an artful man to disarm the people that was the best and most effective way to enslave the people - but they should not do it openly; but to weaken them and let them sink gradually, by totally disusing and neglecting the militia." - George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, 1778.
If you look at it they intended for the second amendment to apply to everyone EXCEPT for law enforcement and the military. Law Enforcement officers and military members are not allowed to bear whatever arms they please and are required to bear arms in accordance with the respective policies governing use of arms. The United States Supreme Court even went so far as to disconnect the militia requirement (and if you read the history of the second amendment this makes sense that clause was originally there to protect people who had religious reasons for refusing to bear arms and ended up neutered to prevent abuses of that clause by the government to disarm its people) the Supreme court had this to say in Heller V. DC
The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.
and on the militia clause
The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms
There were quite a few incidences of break ins where when caught the offender admitted to using the list to do their shopping and some more breakins where the place was trashed and nothing disappeared but the gun safe. Further we have had quite a few reports of corrections officers being threatened by inmates who used the map to find out where the officers live.
When did netflix start their streaming service though? they were doing dvd rentals back in 97, they didnt start unlimited streaming till 2008 at some point between 97 and 2008 they offered a limited streaming plan (1 hour per dollar you spent on your plan) I'm guessing it was closer to 2008 than 97 that they launched that.
Why shut it down? it draws ~1amp surely your car battery can supply that for several days without issue
You say this replying to a story about a law that was posted as a knee jerk reaction to an outlier that was cherry picked because they used an "assault weapon.".... Reality tends to be based on what happens with the vast majority. The vast majority of gun owners are responsible people who put safety first.
Federal funding for unbiased studies was effectively banned, the cdc is not allowed to publish pro gun materials, as such any study they do is a risk for them. The article I linked to covers how the author of the study you cited admits hes biased, how is pointing out someones own admission of fault a bias?
Here in Aussie we have much stricter gun laws and guess what by proportion we have less crimes committed with guns. It's a no brainier.
Those who live in glass houses ought not throw stones. While the rest of the world has a reducing violent crime rate Australia's actually going up and has always been around 2x the rate of the us and is quickly approaching 3x the rate of the us.
Has the NRA actually advocated for attempting to prevent people with mental problems from getting them? or are those people advocating that we improve the nature of the mental health care. Most of the people I've heard saying we need to do something about the mental health system say we shouldn't have additional restrictions on guns to the mentally ill, playing up that angle tends to discourage them from getting the help they need as they then have a fear of losing their rights. The responsibility for keeping the mental ill falls to those people who have guns they might obtain. Keep your own guns locked up and help your family get the help they need.
Some (Sad) Real World Statistics:
That's .03% of the total population of the us. Only 11,493 of those are homicides (down to .00353025 now). Twice as many people die from falling unintentionally as die from guns every year. Unintentional poisoning kills 3x as many Alcohol abuse kills almost 10x as many. Guns are low on the list of killers.
- An estimated 41% of gun-related homicides and 94% of gun-related suicides would not occur under the same circumstances had no guns been present (Wiebe, Douglas J. PhD. “Homicide and Suicide Risks Associated With Firearms in the Home: A National Case-Control Study,” Annals of Emergency Medicine 41 (2003): 771-82.)
I thought we were going for real world statistics not made up numbers? estimate is another word for made up.
- A gun in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in a completed or attempted suicide (11x), criminal assault or homicide (7x), or unintentional shooting death or injury (4x) than to be used in a self-defense shooting. (Kellermann, Arthur L. et al., “Injuries and Deaths Due to Firearms in the Home,” Journal of Trauma, Injury, Infection, and Critical Care, 45(2) (1998): 263-267)
That study was intentionally biased (even the author admits it) and excludes instances where criminals were not killed or injurred, ie if the criminal ran away after seeing the gun it's not counted in the study, thus skewing the numbers in favor of the point he wanted to make http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact-sheets/2001/22-times-less-safebranti-gun-lobby's-f.aspx
I'd finish out the rest of your list but I'm alas out of time. But the core point is guns just don't kill as many people are you'd like to claim and banning them won't do any better, the violent crime rate in the uk where guns are banned is 4x that of the us, worse yet gun crime has doubled since they banned guns.
In the USA, pretty much anyone can buy or sell a gun with little or no safety or sanity check, particularly at gun shows;
Well except that in order for you to buy a gun from a dealer (this includes at gun shows) you must fill out paperwork and pass a background check, the government doesn't want to give citizens the ability to do background checks so in order to allow people to sell their own property (imagine that you have the right to sell your stuff) they allow private sales without a background check (note if you have reason to believe the person you are selling to is a prohibited person you are liable for selling it to them).
kids clearly have easy access to them, as schools find it necessary to check for them on entry.
Schools are checking for drugs not guns generally, they just catch guns at those checkpoints.
Only an anti gun nut would link the availability of guns to the increase in crime.
The real reasons for an increase in crime are higher population densities and a steady diet of violent american media.
The UK where violent crime is so high that they now have cameras on every street corner so they can watch everyone? Yeah sure let's head there...
Since Australia enacted stricter gun control laws after a horrible mass shooting in 1996 there hasn't been one since:
Well other than that one in 2002, oh and there was that mass murder in 2000... they didn't use a gun but used fire instead.
Reloading a revolver fast is easy, drop out the old clip drop in the new one, hows that any slower than dropping the magazine out of a semi auto and slamming in a new one?
There's no reason that a civilian needs an AK-47/74/AR-15 (a military issue with full auto mode disabled)
(Emphasis added) .243 wssm) and lower power rimfire rounds (like .22lr) with nothing but your fingers means the same gun can be used for both large game and small game hunting. Being lightweight means it's easier to carry if you like longer trips without seeing civilization. Easy to maintain is another obvious benefit as... well it's just darned easy to maintain an ar-15.
Actually the receivers on an ar-15 and a m16 are different, the m16 receiver has an area milled out for the auto seer as well as a third hole for the automatic fire control group. Auto mode isn't just disabled the physical parts for the full auto mode won't fit. The advantages of an ar-15 in "legitimate" uses are numerous. For hunting having a modular platform that is easy to maintain and lightweight is an obvious plus. The ability to switch between higher powered larger caliber rounds (like the 50 beowulf or
The M1 Garand used clips the M1 carbine used magazines to load (though the garand odes in fact have a magazine its just internal)
Your M1 Garand has a magazine that you feed bullets into via a clip...
The last revolution on American soil was actually fought by military guys returning from world war 2 and overthrowing the local corrupt government in Athens Tennessee
You would have sided with the sheriff at the battle of athens?
A quick search has not revealed any successful incidents of civilians stopping mass-shootings with their own guns. Off-duty police and military have, but I can't find evidence of civilians without military or police training doing it.
There was the Oregon mall shooting where the offender retreated when a ccw permit holder pulled their weapon.
Then I believe it was the university of texas clock tower shooting where many of the students brought out their own firearms and began firing back thus keeping the offender pinned down and unable to continue his killing spree while police closed in
Weird, every time I've been to a gun show the dealers require background checks, where is this that you're going where you can buy a gun from a licensed dealer at a gun show without a background check?
And if you look at the uk, you'll see gun crime has doubled since they implemented their ban a decade ago
Ban ladders, only licensed professionals should be climbing up high any way. You'll save twice as many lives (guns killed about 11,000 people last year unexpected falls killed 24,000 people) and you won't prevent anyone from exercising their right to self defense.