1. I can't recall it's name, it was 12 years ago.
2. It was created by a man named Guy Pope, at the USAF Standard System Center, Gunter AFB, Montgomery Albama.
3. It allowed users to enter/retrieve records (accounting information).
4. It was released before I started working for them in June 1988.
5. I really can't point out where to find it (it is a military application, though). You might want to try to contact them about it. The group is GAFS (General Acounting and Finance Systems).
6. You can contact me (caver@caver.org) as I will swear it was there. I was the release manager for our group for 2 years, I ought to know what I released.
It was a C front end, runing over DOS, that allowed you to enter information that was then sent to a COBOL back end (yes, COBOL) which then retrieved/wrote the data from/to an AFORMS (Air Force blah blah Relational blah blah blah) database.
We didn't think this was original in 1988, how they thought it was original in 1991 is beyond me.
So they really aren't making money on the software
This isn't what he said. If you reread the original article, he said "We hope to make no money off the software." (Emphasis mine). The meanings of these two statements is totaly different.
services model The biggest flaw I see with this model is there is no incentive to produce bug free (or as close as you can get) code. By introducing subtle bugs, you can ensure yourself a job forever.
software customization model This is what I do right now, but our clients insist that they get the source, and they always have. I'm not sure who is paying for custom software and not getting the code (and if anyone out there is doing this, call me, we can make a deal:) The problem I see with this is that one company doesn't want to pay for the development of software that their competitors will get for free.
sell hardware This is a very small field, and most programmers don't work for hardware manufacturers, so this doesn't answer the general question.
I, and other customers like myself, are actually paying for this code to be developed we should have the right to choose solutions over which we have some say in the development, and that we can take to alternative vendors for fixing/modification, if we don't like the the original vendors intentions or after sales care). Like I said before, this is how we operate (you pay, you get the code). You can hire anyone you like to modify, fix, whatever our code. No respectable firm would operate in any other way. But, there is one restriction: You can't distribute the code or binaries outside of your company (unless you buy that right).
Which is not even close to the point. Yes the software is free. But, they are using the software to get you to come to their site, where they will offer you services for a fee. Thus, they are using the software to make money. It's the same as someone showing a comercial. Even though you get to watch the comercial for free, they are using it to make money.
I don't know if they are or not, but Ticketmaster doesn't require you to use a specific phone company or a specific ISP. Helixcode said that you will have to use their auto-update code, and that you will be offered services while you use it.
It runs so counter to the current software industry that I couldn't resist quoting it.
Even though it is bullshit. They will make money off servicing the software, which is making money off the software.
But it is a sign of the changing world model for IT business
It's always been more profitable to provide service contracts. Businesses have known this for years, it's about time the IT businesses caught up to the 'old school' businesses.
Next they will sue the creators of TCP/IP for assisting in the violation of copyrights. Then they can go after the people who created networking. Then the people who make cables. Or they can go after Intel, et al. for creating processors that are capable of being programed to violate copyright laws. Think of the $billions you could get!
Are you trying to tell me that nuclear power is inherently better than say, solar power?
Solar power is nuclear power. Just like in a fission plant, you don't derive the power directly from the fission, the same holds true for solar power. And the global impact of something going wrong with the Sun far exceedes any other disaster. To be safe, we need to get rid of the Sun.
To properly build a breeder reactor, you need to start with enough weapons grade plutonium that you don't need a breeder reactor (if your intent is to build a Bomb(tm)).
Re:Speaking of D&D, remember the cartoon?
on
Gen Con 2000 Report
·
· Score: 1
Did anyone else here glue themselves to the old D&D cartoon when they where kids?
He goes on to state that code isn't covered by the first amendment because it's functional
The judge said that it is covered by the 1st Amendment, but that congress has the right to restrict it because it is functional, and was created to be functional (Yeah, I didn't notice that part of the 1st Amendment either, but somewhere along the line, the SC has ruled this way). If the code had been created to make a political point, then it would be fully protected by the 1st Amendment.
I think you'll find that shirts with DeCSS on them *are* protected, as they are political speech.
My web camera lets you play games by jumping around in front of it, why not convert it to programming? "Watch out dear, I'm trying to write a for loop and I need as much space as I can get!"
he said that you couldn't even begin to translate the real world into logical statements.
What he really said that in any logical system which attempts to explain everything, there are valid statements that cannot be proved either true or false. By using self referencing systems (such as your example) he demonstrated the validity of his statement.
BTW, it's easy to write logical systems that aren't subject to Godel, for example: The only valid statement in my logic system is:
A is A.
Only allow access to approved sites. Block everyone, except those on your approval list. This way you don't have to worry about new sites, as no one will be able to get to them.
As for what do you do when your morals meet the demands of business? Stand by your morals (it has cost me jobs in the past, but at least I can live with myself).
Slashdot Mirror
1. I can't recall it's name, it was 12 years ago.
2. It was created by a man named Guy Pope, at the USAF Standard System Center, Gunter AFB, Montgomery Albama.
3. It allowed users to enter/retrieve records (accounting information).
4. It was released before I started working for them in June 1988.
5. I really can't point out where to find it (it is a military application, though). You might want to try to contact them about it. The group is GAFS (General Acounting and Finance Systems).
6. You can contact me (caver@caver.org) as I will swear it was there. I was the release manager for our group for 2 years, I ought to know what I released.
It was a C front end, runing over DOS, that allowed you to enter information that was then sent to a COBOL back end (yes, COBOL) which then retrieved/wrote the data from/to an AFORMS (Air Force blah blah Relational blah blah blah) database.
We didn't think this was original in 1988, how they thought it was original in 1991 is beyond me.
So they really aren't making money on the software
This isn't what he said. If you reread the original article, he said "We hope to make no money off the software." (Emphasis mine). The meanings of these two statements is totaly different.
Let me comment on these:
:)
services model
The biggest flaw I see with this model is there is no incentive to produce bug free (or as close as you can get) code. By introducing subtle bugs, you can ensure yourself a job forever.
software customization model
This is what I do right now, but our clients insist that they get the source, and they always have. I'm not sure who is paying for custom software and not getting the code (and if anyone out there is doing this, call me, we can make a deal
The problem I see with this is that one company doesn't want to pay for the development of software that their competitors will get for free.
sell hardware
This is a very small field, and most programmers don't work for hardware manufacturers, so this doesn't answer the general question.
I, and other customers like myself, are actually paying for this code to be developed we should have the right to choose solutions over which we have some say in the development, and that we can take to alternative vendors for fixing/modification, if we don't like the the original vendors intentions or after sales care).
Like I said before, this is how we operate (you pay, you get the code). You can hire anyone you like to modify, fix, whatever our code. No respectable firm would operate in any other way. But, there is one restriction: You can't distribute the code or binaries outside of your company (unless you buy that right).
And in Star Trek you can get anything you want from a replicator. If you give me anything I want, I will give you all my software for free.
Journalist sell their speech, and you are not allowed to sell it. Hmm, sounds like the current software model to me.
Which is not even close to the point. Yes the software is free. But, they are using the software to get you to come to their site, where they will offer you services for a fee. Thus, they are using the software to make money. It's the same as someone showing a comercial. Even though you get to watch the comercial for free, they are using it to make money.
I don't know if they are or not, but Ticketmaster doesn't require you to use a specific phone company or a specific ISP. Helixcode said that you will have to use their auto-update code, and that you will be offered services while you use it.
... and that license fees feed the programmers who write the software.
You bring up this argument, but never present anything to refute it. How are programmers going to make money if their software is free?
they really are planning to sell a service.
And you have to use their software if you wish this service. Tell me how that isn't making money off of the software?
It runs so counter to the current software industry that I couldn't resist quoting it.
Even though it is bullshit. They will make money off servicing the software, which is making money off the software.
But it is a sign of the changing world model for IT business
It's always been more profitable to provide service contracts. Businesses have known this for years, it's about time the IT businesses caught up to the 'old school' businesses.
People all over the world want to kill their boss?
Next they will sue the creators of TCP/IP for assisting in the violation of copyrights. Then they can go after the people who created networking. Then the people who make cables. Or they can go after Intel, et al. for creating processors that are capable of being programed to violate copyright laws. Think of the $billions you could get!
to kill your boss.
"Kill my boss? Dare I live the American dream?" - Homer Simpson
Notice that I didn't say "The only way". Please check your reading capability before commenting.
Are you trying to tell me that nuclear power is inherently better than say, solar power?
Solar power is nuclear power. Just like in a fission plant, you don't derive the power directly from the fission, the same holds true for solar power. And the global impact of something going wrong with the Sun far exceedes any other disaster. To be safe, we need to get rid of the Sun.
To properly build a breeder reactor, you need to start with enough weapons grade plutonium that you don't need a breeder reactor (if your intent is to build a Bomb(tm)).
Did anyone else here glue themselves to the old D&D cartoon when they where kids?
When I was a kid? Damn I'm old.
By this reasoning, Windows must be the greatest operating system ever.
Attempt to dodge off-topicness: 128k is pathetic for DSL, isn't it?
128kb is pathetic no matter how you go about getting it.
He goes on to state that code isn't covered by the first amendment because it's functional
The judge said that it is covered by the 1st Amendment, but that congress has the right to restrict it because it is functional, and was created to be functional (Yeah, I didn't notice that part of the 1st Amendment either, but somewhere along the line, the SC has ruled this way). If the code had been created to make a political point, then it would be fully protected by the 1st Amendment.
I think you'll find that shirts with DeCSS on them *are* protected, as they are political speech.
As long as they are an American company, they are subject to the laws here.
My web camera lets you play games by jumping around in front of it, why not convert it to programming? "Watch out dear, I'm trying to write a for loop and I need as much space as I can get!"
What happens when you trip over the cat?
Even smaller than you think, 5 vowels and 7 consonants A E H I K L M N O P U W
See: http://www.geocities.com/TheTropi cs/Shores/6794//
he said that you couldn't even begin to translate the real world into logical statements.
What he really said that in any logical system which attempts to explain everything, there are valid statements that cannot be proved either true or false. By using self referencing systems (such as your example) he demonstrated the validity of his statement.
BTW, it's easy to write logical systems that aren't subject to Godel, for example:
The only valid statement in my logic system is:
A is A.
Only allow access to approved sites. Block everyone, except those on your approval list. This way you don't have to worry about new sites, as no one will be able to get to them.
As for what do you do when your morals meet the demands of business? Stand by your morals (it has cost me jobs in the past, but at least I can live with myself).