I've been curious since the announce was made, somewhere in a distant past:
You approached Wal-Mart and convinced them to make business with you
Wal-Mart contacted you because of...
A third option, somewhere in the middle.
Of course, if you would be so kind as to mention some of the more (geekwise, of course) interesting arguments used in the deal, I think some of us could pay attention;-)
From a totally different point of view, what is the most frequentype of problem asked to the lindows help desk ?
Does it reflects thet targeted user base, or are you only selling to geeks in search of a cheap secondary system ?
Subwoofer in your Case = Screwdriver in your Hand.
Nuff said.
Of course, we geek love to screw with a lot of things, but really, do you think the HD will appreciate that pump-up-the-volume-Metallica-rocks-your-rib-cage-l ive-show ?
Since our dear Google friend samples mainly english-speaking sites, we have mainly:
the brits
the us's
well, the aussies are OK
ER, again,Unbiased, you said ?
I'm afraid you'll have to talk another language than english if you want to have Real Unbiased (tm) news.
Now, everybody, including me, has its own agenda, so you'd better be your 0wn Google news, and sample differents opinions to try and have a kind of "better picture". But that's true even outside war time, hmmm ?
Now look at the discussion, they are pelnty of postings for every link you want, and even the one you don't !
Well, since I'm doing some kind of
family/friend IS/IT support, people turns to me when they want to get rid of their now nearly useless stuff.
So I got this good-looking 8X IDE CD-ROM, which did really stange things on every machine I did try it, whith every possible jumpers settings.
Eventually, I went googling, to find out with the model ID that this beast, even if it had and very-IDE-looking interface, was actually talking MKE, not IDE.
Bold claim... Prove it !
This actually raise the question:
Is is possible create a game/whatever computer programm with some clearly defined goal and means to reach it for which a programmed "solution" won't work ?
Ok, Know you classic, go
there, and read: "2.6. Requirements for IP Masquerade on Linux 2.4.x"
You'll see that masquerading for some protocols are not ported to iptables
Of course, some purist will tell you that IP masquerading is not security, but other purist will tell you that statefull packet inspection is not kosher eather.
The RH 7.x (1<x<3) are really useful to have at hand. They even detect if you have pcmcia card, and configure them ! I did not try with 8.0, though. (When it come to RH, x.0 means alpha, and y.1 means beta anyway)
A few hints, from experience:
Keep all three version, at least the boot CD because some of them might not work on every hardware combination. Of course, try 7.3 beforehand.
As well, if your disk have "disk manager" bios-replacing "utilities" installed on them, having the corresponding floppy to boot into your CD is a good idea. The same way, a win98 recovery floppy will let you boot you RH installation by selecting "with cd-rom support", then launch "D:\dosutils\autoboot linux rescue"
If you were disturbed, and the machine just booted the regular install, just go through the keyboard/language combination, and leave it there. Now just use ctrl-alt-F2 and F3 to switch to a shell that basically gives you the same functionnality as "linux rescue"
Even in linux rescue, you can use ctrl-alt-F1 and F2 to switch between two shells. I leave to the curious minds to guess what the other virtual consoles are displaying...
For example, when our stoopide corporate M$ install barf on a weird partition table -> "linux rescue" -> "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda"->wait 10 s before ctrl-c, and voila. Linux help M$.
Each time I hear "switched network = security", I cringe. Just think about it 5 seconds: any enterprise-grade switch has a "sniffing/packet mirroring/..." function. This take 5 seconds to configure, and a network link to sniff out anything coming to/from the server and any client deemed appropriate
Would you trust you network admin with all the company data ? Maybe yes, but:
Secundly, a switch is not a security device, even if you do not arp-poison it (noisy that), getting the switch password is enough for any ill-intentionned invidual to repeat the former scenario. So, still not convinced ?
Something else: if the PeopleSoft guys do not want to implement https, then start questionning their level of competence. Because the nebulous problems they are mentionning does not compare to what can happen if someone has access to the personnal data in your company. Just think litigation there...
You really want to do multi-homing ? Yes, you sure ?
Well, then get two different provider with a different set of addresses, set up two routers for each one of your feedm and set up your servers to have two differents IP addresses per machine. Of course, to be fully redundant, you have to register two different DNS domains (on, in.com and one in.org will definitely look k00wl).
What ? It does not work ? assymetric routing ? That's for whinnies.
Be real dedundantm duplicate everything, (but your boss: this one should be replaceable).
Of course, the usual question is: what can you afford to have redundancy ?
Because before technical solutions, you might want to review the contract with your access provider to include liabilities. The contract itself might cost more, but it might be simpler than a real redundant solution.
Because unless you know for a fact than your access provider is not reliable and has bad support, playing the redundancy game might be a bit more expansive than "simply" getting a double connection from the internet.
Let's do the excercise: you want a dual internet connection, that's OK, but you surely do not want a single router=single point of failure.
So you have to buy another router, most probably the same brand as the one you already have, so to be able to use the (most probably) proprietary high availability solution. Provided your current model supports HA, or you will have to buy a more expensive one ?
Which brings to mind that having a redundant link (with an SLA:-) from the same provider might be an excellent idea, since they are probably aggregating your/28 to other/subnet, your route advertisment won't get lost in their network until it gets aggregated. Just make sure it does not get aggregated on the next hop;-)
Well, if you are willing to pay for multi-homing, woul'dt it be easier to try to obtain an SLA with only one access provider, SLA including an redundant routing connection, with some redundancy protocol handled
my.01 cents about the good/bad opposition in there.
Since I've began reading sci-fi/fantasy-deemed books, one of the things I started to notice and like were the non-existence of those 100% evil things.
And it's a trap very difficult not to fall into. Look at his majesty Brin himself: into the uplift cycle, aren't those "galactics patrons" the fundamental evil, impersonating (but for a few exceptions) the real bad ones. Even Tolkien himslef, or Jordan (look at the Trollocs into "the wheel of time") did not escape that trap. They had to identify absolute villains.\
And notice that, in opposition with Tolkien, Brin "bad" people are the one that do not want to change the traditions. So why is that salon article not so surprising ?
This whole "world dichotomification" of course appeals to our human nature, because it's so easy to blame everything that is going wrong on satan/sauron/beelzebub/...
But I like works like "Dune" or Leiber "Sword and Sorceries", because they do not try to split the world in two. The evil and good is coming from us, after all.
When I read Tim interview, it really brings me back some years ago when I was working in some small company.
The CEO/owner wanted to develop something, only to change the target every second week.
Of course, since this guy was lacking any kind of vision, he was adopting a different development Guru every third month, with the usual political back-stabbing going on.
And since the project has some targetting problems, obtaining the hardware was of course a pain in...
I learned what I could learn, then went out.
I guess that when such an organisation is successfull as producing software, it's because the developper have a really good idea, and they are left alone by the various PHB.
Ok, I think we are drowning ourself into misunderstanding(s).
First, yes, I think you still have some methodology problem, but that's because we have to define "runs faster".
I might be wrong, and no I did not went into the details of doing "#time cmd" of whatever else benchmarking technologies will be applied.
What will give a final answer to the question of objective performances will be to run those benchmark on the same machine with the same partionning scheme, and the two distros.
But why gentoo users tends to pretends Gentoo is fastest, even if it is subjective ?
The first impression: the boot process tends to be a lot faster on gentoo v.s. RH. Because RH installs everything and lets you disable what you do not need, OTOH gentoo installs only what you need.
As well, depending on the memory you have, having less things running into the background might give a better user experience, and that's what gentoo tends to minimize. But again this is difficult to really quantify.
Now, I'm not an expert, nor a newby on system performances issues, but I think that optimizing the kernel and libc might gives you speedup, but again it depends on what you are doing with your machine. After all, a benchmark is always benchmarking the machine capacity to do benchmark.
Yeah right, so you said "this gentoo thing is bogus", but you do your test on RedHat. A methodology problem, maybe? As well, which version of gcc did you use. It can count.
Anyway, before starting a flame war, the point is that getting RedHat as lightweight/custom compiled as Gentoo means that:
you will have to "remove" a lot of stuff _after_ installing, because even a bare-bone RH installation is still bloated (I did that on my home firewall).
you will have to get the latest stable gcc, and to recompile everything from srpms.
So Gentoo or RedHat. Well you choose your tradeoffs, pal !
Now, I still prefer RedHat, because I'm used to it . Call it laziness.
Let's throw some (not yet evocated) ideas in the air.
Ok, after all, even if it's -ac or whatever kernel breed, it's always the linux kernel under the hood. Take your favorite distro, and try switching between 2.2/2.4/2.5 kernels, and notice the lack of problems for the supported hardware. Kudos to the kernel developpers.
But if you are in supporting a slew of users, then you'd not want to have to find your way through the filesystem to find that fsking configuration file that changes the DHCP clients timeout to 180 s.
One of the thing that differs the most is what happens just after kicks in and when you get your [graphical]login prompt. Even if mandrake tends to stick to the redhat model, some people used to RedHat can have a few surprises around dark corners.
As well, RedHat is really more server-oriented: we tried mandrake 8 on a machine with more that 2 NICs, and realized that we will had to redo-most of the IP-settings scripts, where we switched to RedHat, seeing no advantages whatseover.
Now, a note on Gentoo/Sorcerer/Source Mage source-based distributions. They are going to run faster than the other, becaus they carry no fat and are optimized for _your_ computer: but be prepared for a lot of cpu/net bandwidth usage, as well as a lot of learning. It's up to you to decide if they are good for you, or not.
Exactly, my point is that even if you manage to find the "what", you might have real difficulties to find the "how". Because the "how" depends on a situation and mindset that is really foreign to the modern minds.
</BeeingStubborn>
Slashdot Mirror
- You approached Wal-Mart and convinced them to make business with you
- Wal-Mart contacted you because of...
- A third option, somewhere in the middle.
Of course, if you would be so kind as to mention some of the more (geekwise, of course) interesting arguments used in the deal, I think some of us could pay attentionFrom a totally different point of view, what is the most frequentype of problem asked to the lindows help desk ?
Does it reflects thet targeted user base, or are you only selling to geeks in search of a cheap secondary system ?
Of course, we geek love to screw with a lot of things, but really, do you think the HD will appreciate that pump-up-the-volume-Metallica-rocks-your-rib-cage-l ive-show ?
OK, you're right, so Google news are even more suspects.
ER, again, Unbiased , you said ?
I'm afraid you'll have to talk another language than english if you want to have Real Unbiased (tm) news.
Now, everybody, including me, has its own agenda, so you'd better be your 0wn Google news, and sample differents opinions to try and have a kind of "better picture". But that's true even outside war time, hmmm ?
Now look at the discussion, they are pelnty of postings for every link you want, and even the one you don't !
Now that you say that it's true, I've got that old ESS ISA sound card with all those stange interface.
Hmmm, let's recompile the kernel with OLD_CD_SUPPORT.No, really, thank you, I did figure out that MKE was some Panasonic proprietary shmucky, but I did not link that to those old CD farts !
Well, since I'm doing some kind of family/friend IS/IT support, people turns to me when they want to get rid of their now nearly useless stuff.
So I got this good-looking 8X IDE CD-ROM, which did really stange things on every machine I did try it, whith every possible jumpers settings.
Eventually, I went googling, to find out with the model ID that this beast, even if it had and very-IDE-looking interface, was actually talking MKE, not IDE.
Anybody has a cheap MKE controller around ?
Oh no, Am i a bot ???
So, any candidates in that room ?
Let's rewrite the turing test, buddy ;-)
You'll see that masquerading for some protocols are not ported to iptables
Of course, some purist will tell you that IP masquerading is not security, but other purist will tell you that statefull packet inspection is not kosher eather.
Who is a purist anyway ?
All your anal mathematician are belong to you !
The RH 7.x (1<x<3) are really useful to have at hand. They even detect if you have pcmcia card, and configure them ! I did not try with 8.0, though. (When it come to RH, x.0 means alpha, and y.1 means beta anyway)
A few hints, from experience:
For example, when our stoopide corporate M$ install barf on a weird partition table -> "linux rescue" -> "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda"->wait 10 s before ctrl-c, and voila. Linux help M$.
Each time I hear "switched network = security", I cringe. Just think about it 5 seconds: any enterprise-grade switch has a "sniffing/packet mirroring/..." function. This take 5 seconds to configure, and a network link to sniff out anything coming to/from the server and any client deemed appropriate
Would you trust you network admin with all the company data ? Maybe yes, but:
Secundly, a switch is not a security device, even if you do not arp-poison it (noisy that), getting the switch password is enough for any ill-intentionned invidual to repeat the former scenario. So, still not convinced ?
Something else: if the PeopleSoft guys do not want to implement https, then start questionning their level of competence. Because the nebulous problems they are mentionning does not compare to what can happen if someone has access to the personnal data in your company. Just think litigation there...
You really want to do multi-homing ? Yes, you sure ?
Well, then get two different provider with a different set of addresses, set up two routers for each one of your feedm and set up your servers to have two differents IP addresses per machine. Of course, to be fully redundant, you have to register two different DNS domains (on, in .com and one in .org will definitely look k00wl).
What ? It does not work ? assymetric routing ? That's for whinnies.
Be real dedundantm duplicate everything, (but your boss: this one should be replaceable).
Ooops, remove the last sentence... Whish we could edit at least our comments.
Of course, the usual question is: what can you afford to have redundancy ?
Because before technical solutions, you might want to review the contract with your access provider to include liabilities. The contract itself might cost more, but it might be simpler than a real redundant solution.
Because unless you know for a fact than your access provider is not reliable and has bad support, playing the redundancy game might be a bit more expansive than "simply" getting a double connection from the internet.
Let's do the excercise: you want a dual internet connection, that's OK, but you surely do not want a single router=single point of failure. So you have to buy another router, most probably the same brand as the one you already have, so to be able to use the (most probably) proprietary high availability solution. Provided your current model supports HA, or you will have to buy a more expensive one ?
Which brings to mind that having a redundant link (with an SLA :-) from the same provider might be an excellent idea, since they are probably aggregating your /28 to other /subnet, your route advertisment won't get lost in their network until it gets aggregated. Just make sure it does not get aggregated on the next hop ;-)
Well, if you are willing to pay for multi-homing, woul'dt it be easier to try to obtain an SLA with only one access provider, SLA including an redundant routing connection, with some redundancy protocol handled
Since I've began reading sci-fi/fantasy-deemed books, one of the things I started to notice and like were the non-existence of those 100% evil things.
And it's a trap very difficult not to fall into. Look at his majesty Brin himself: into the uplift cycle, aren't those "galactics patrons" the fundamental evil, impersonating (but for a few exceptions) the real bad ones. Even Tolkien himslef, or Jordan (look at the Trollocs into "the wheel of time") did not escape that trap. They had to identify absolute villains.\And notice that, in opposition with Tolkien, Brin "bad" people are the one that do not want to change the traditions. So why is that salon article not so surprising ?
This whole "world dichotomification" of course appeals to our human nature, because it's so easy to blame everything that is going wrong on satan/sauron/beelzebub/...
But I like works like "Dune" or Leiber "Sword and Sorceries", because they do not try to split the world in two. The evil and good is coming from us, after all.
The CEO/owner wanted to develop something, only to change the target every second week.
Of course, since this guy was lacking any kind of vision, he was adopting a different development Guru every third month, with the usual political back-stabbing going on.And since the project has some targetting problems, obtaining the hardware was of course a pain in ...
I learned what I could learn, then went out.
I guess that when such an organisation is successfull as producing software, it's because the developper have a really good idea, and they are left alone by the various PHB.
Remember, guys, it's a geek in disguise: how much would you bet that under that flakey varnish of civilisation, he wears a worn TUX tee-shirt ?
Down-to-earth-practical today, aren't we ?
First, yes, I think you still have some methodology problem, but that's because we have to define "runs faster".
I might be wrong, and no I did not went into the details of doing "#time cmd" of whatever else benchmarking technologies will be applied.
What will give a final answer to the question of objective performances will be to run those benchmark on the same machine with the same partionning scheme, and the two distros.
But why gentoo users tends to pretends Gentoo is fastest, even if it is subjective ?
Now, I'm not an expert, nor a newby on system performances issues, but I think that optimizing the kernel and libc might gives you speedup, but again it depends on what you are doing with your machine. After all, a benchmark is always benchmarking the machine capacity to do benchmark.
Anyway, before starting a flame war, the point is that getting RedHat as lightweight/custom compiled as Gentoo means that:
- you will have to "remove" a lot of stuff _after_ installing, because even a bare-bone RH installation is still bloated (I did that on my home firewall).
- you will have to get the latest stable gcc, and to recompile everything from srpms.
So Gentoo or RedHat. Well you choose your tradeoffs, pal ! Now, I still prefer RedHat, because I'm used to it . Call it laziness.Ok, after all, even if it's -ac or whatever kernel breed, it's always the linux kernel under the hood. Take your favorite distro, and try switching between 2.2/2.4/2.5 kernels, and notice the lack of problems for the supported hardware. Kudos to the kernel developpers.
But if you are in supporting a slew of users, then you'd not want to have to find your way through the filesystem to find that fsking configuration file that changes the DHCP clients timeout to 180 s.
One of the thing that differs the most is what happens just after kicks in and when you get your [graphical]login prompt. Even if mandrake tends to stick to the redhat model, some people used to RedHat can have a few surprises around dark corners.
As well, RedHat is really more server-oriented: we tried mandrake 8 on a machine with more that 2 NICs, and realized that we will had to redo-most of the IP-settings scripts, where we switched to RedHat, seeing no advantages whatseover.
Now, a note on Gentoo/Sorcerer/Source Mage source-based distributions. They are going to run faster than the other, becaus they carry no fat and are optimized for _your_ computer: but be prepared for a lot of cpu/net bandwidth usage, as well as a lot of learning. It's up to you to decide if they are good for you, or not.
Alice1: And. But all things are not always are not always (...) are not always you need to know you learned from Dr Richard s Wallace.
Alice2: HTTP Error 503, Alice stackfault see source code for java traceback...
alice.but.java,line 212
...all.java,line 342
...things.java,line 734
...are.java,line 225
...not.java,line 256
...always.java,line 153
...
richard.s.wallace.easter.egg.java line 3141
Exactly, my point is that even if you manage to find the "what", you might have real difficulties to find the "how". Because the "how" depends on a situation and mindset that is really foreign to the modern minds. </BeeingStubborn>