libidn2 would not be on the user's system in the first place; had it not been for systemd.
Wrong. libidn2 might be on the users system if they'd installed curl. systemd will only use libidn2 if the user had recompiled systemd with experimental libidn2 support.
By choosing to use this foreign library, the foreign library code effectively becomes part of systemd.
Absolutely. And when we find a bug in libc then it's obviously systemd's fault for using libc. What kind of clown relies on an external library for vital functions.
I believe the edge case is Netflix viewers running systemd,
No, it's Neflix viewers who use systemd-resolved. I use Debian Stretch with systemd and, despite Neflix using illegal hostnames including underscores, it works ok.
Nope, that doesn't work -- if nobody had problems with ALSA, sysvinit or bsdinit nobody would be looking for replacements for them, and lots of people are looking for replacements for them. Hell, even sysvinit, mess that it was, was proposed as a way of getting round the suckiness of bsd init,
Oddly the replacements that have been accepted are pulseaudio and systemd.
The journal is actually quite useful -- because of the journal stuff that gets logged before syslogd is ready is not lost, also its integration with systemctl status is nice and it includes more information than syslog.
You can (as Debian does) stop it writing its logs to disk if you want.
Of course if the journal was a real problem it would be pretty trivial to write a version of journald that wrote text logs, or just passed stuff off to syslogd or whatever.
But nobody has ever bothered, they just spend all their time bitching about it.
but would people mod down something in support of Debian, which deliberately excludes proprietary and capitalist code from its distro?
Debian only accepts code that is compatible with capitalism -- code you can sell.
Debian refuses to include code that restricts the freedom of Debian users to do whatever they want with it, sell it, use it to make nuclear bombs, whatever.
Debian has even refused to accept code licensed on the "do no evil" license on the grounds that any Debian user should have to freedom do do whatever evil they want with their copy of Debian [ where allowed by local law, of course ].
If you bother to read the anti-systemd trolls (yes, I admit it is boring) you'll find they're full of anti-SJW rants and other lunacy. It's a fair bet that they're Trump supporters. (I even found one who was a full on climate change denier).
I've had systems that would randomly come up with NFS non working in the past because the sysvinit scripts weren't waiting long enough for the network to become available.
You know, the thing that always intrigues me is that people spend an inordinate amount of time criticising Poettering's code (pulseaudio, systemd), but nobody ever succeeds in doing better enough to get their solution adopted by as many people.
Slashdot Mirror
libidn2 would not be on the user's system in the first place; had it not been for systemd.
Wrong. libidn2 might be on the users system if they'd installed curl. systemd will only use libidn2 if the user had recompiled systemd with experimental libidn2 support.
Well, what the fuck, you're right.
The register turn out to be a lying bunch of weasels yet again.
# apt-cache rdepends libidn2-0
libidn2-0
Reverse Depends:
libpsl5
libcurl3
libidn2-0-dev
libidn2-0-dbg
idn2
html-xml-utils
libcurl3-nss
libcurl3-gnutls
# apt-cache rdepends libidn11
libidn11
Reverse Depends:
systemd
libidn11-dev
libgnutls30
gnutls-bin
whois
wget
libvlccore8
libui-utilcpp9v5
tgif
systemd
python3-slixmpp-lib
skipfish
libshishi0
s-nail
psi-plus-webkit
psi-plus
prosody
libpurple0
php-http
perdition
mutt
monotone
mcabber
lynx
libloudmouth1-0
libpodofo0.9.4
libpodofo-utils
libnet-libidn-perl
certmonger
idn
lftp
kopete
knot-host
knot-dnsutils
kadu
jabberd2
jabber-muc
iputils-tracepath
iputils-ping
iputils-arping
hydra
libhesiod0
libghc-network-protocol-xmpp-dev
libghc-gnuidn-dev
libgsasl7
libgnutls30
gnutls-bin
gnunet
libgloox15
libgs9
libgetdns1
getdns-utils
foxeye
elinks
libeiskaltdcpp2.2
echoping
dnsmasq-base
sqwebmail
courier-mta
courier-mlm
courier-imap
By choosing to use this foreign library, the foreign library code effectively becomes part of systemd.
Absolutely. And when we find a bug in libc then it's obviously systemd's fault for using libc. What kind of clown relies on an external library for vital functions.
Nope, the library with the "bug", libidn2, is a GNU project, not part of systemd.
systemd-resolved which uses it is an optional part of systemd. (By default Debian doesn't use it for example).
And it's debatable whether it's a bug or not -- DNS hostnames are not supposed to include underscores.
I believe the edge case is Netflix viewers running systemd,
No, it's Neflix viewers who use systemd-resolved. I use Debian Stretch with systemd and, despite Neflix using illegal hostnames including underscores, it works ok.
Systemd doing what it does best.
Underscores are illegal in DNS hostnames.
Netflix fuck up and it's systemd's fault?
Has someone opened a Debian bug for this?
t's just another redhat derivative now, mostly freedesktop/gnome/systemd dominated in it's direction.
apt-get install sysvinit-core
apt-get install kde-desktop
apt-get install sysvinit-core
This is Debian, not some toy version of Linux. You use whatever init system floats your boat.
Debian -- giving the init system freedom that others promise but fail to give.
Hahaha! Good Joke! systemd-resolved is broken! It doesn't resolve hostnames with underscores in them! Poetering should have read the DNS standards!
What that's you say?
The DNS standards say hostnames must not contain underscores?
Damn it, he's going to WONTFIX that bug!
What's that you say? The "bug" is in an external library, not in systemd-resolved? ... walks off into darkness, muttering madly...
You're even luckier! There's a better supported version of Devuan without systemd, it's called Debian Stretch.
apt-get install sysvinit-core
$ ls -l
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 Jan 24 14:00
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 Jan 24 14:00
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 3783608 Jan 19 2017
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 Jan 20 2017
-rwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4747120 Jan 19 2017
-rwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4747120 Jan 19 2017
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 Jan 20 2017
would break all the time because systemd internals like logging aren't a stable interface.
When did the logging interface last change?
Personally I switched to OS X on the desktop after almost 20 years of Linux.
So how's launchd working out for you?
Nope, that doesn't work -- if nobody had problems with ALSA, sysvinit or bsdinit nobody would be looking for replacements for them, and lots of people are looking for replacements for them. Hell, even sysvinit, mess that it was, was proposed as a way of getting round the suckiness of bsd init,
Oddly the replacements that have been accepted are pulseaudio and systemd.
It would be extremely non-trivial to integrate it with systemd.
Why?
It would break all the time
Why?
the chances of Poettering accepting it as a part of the official distribution of systemd are nil
Why would you care?
Not happening.
I know it's not happening. I just find it funny that none of the people who complain about the binary logging can be bothered to do anything about it.
The journal is actually quite useful -- because of the journal stuff that gets logged before syslogd is ready is not lost, also its integration with systemctl status is nice and it includes more information than syslog.
You can (as Debian does) stop it writing its logs to disk if you want.
Of course if the journal was a real problem it would be pretty trivial to write a version of journald that wrote text logs, or just passed stuff off to syslogd or whatever.
But nobody has ever bothered, they just spend all their time bitching about it.
Odd, that.
but would people mod down something in support of Debian, which deliberately excludes proprietary and capitalist code from its distro?
Debian only accepts code that is compatible with capitalism -- code you can sell.
Debian refuses to include code that restricts the freedom of Debian users to do whatever they want with it, sell it, use it to make nuclear bombs, whatever.
Debian has even refused to accept code licensed on the "do no evil" license on the grounds that any Debian user should have to freedom do do whatever evil they want with their copy of Debian [ where allowed by local law, of course ].
If you bother to read the anti-systemd trolls (yes, I admit it is boring) you'll find they're full of anti-SJW rants and other lunacy. It's a fair bet that they're Trump supporters. (I even found one who was a full on climate change denier).
it's very difficult to unchoose systemD from a distro
Huh?
# apt-get install sysvinit-core
# reboot
What's the difficulty?
You say:
Indeed; its author [...] later congratulated trolls who pushed it on debian-devel [2]
And give the link:
[2]: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/11/msg00350.html
But that link is not to a message from Lennart Poettering, it's a message from John Paul Adrian Glaubitz.
Why did you make this false claim?
I've had systems that would randomly come up with NFS non working in the past because the sysvinit scripts weren't waiting long enough for the network to become available.
What is this "console" of which you speak?
Or, to put it another way -- where is this console of which you speak.
but it [ SMF] can deal with unmodified sysVinit scripts.
As can systemd. Fuck even upstart can do it AFAIK.
Quit. A startup with "bad team dynamics" is doomed.
You know, the thing that always intrigues me is that people spend an inordinate amount of time criticising Poettering's code (pulseaudio, systemd), but nobody ever succeeds in doing better enough to get their solution adopted by as many people.
Odd that.