also, why doesn't rm have better limiting functionality for scripting use? Or if it does why is it not used? Imagine this command
rm -r --limit 25M
if rm sees the potential deletion set to exceed 25Meg it returns without deleting anything. I know that I would often use this, or maybe default it to something so that I didn't accidentally delete WAY more than I intended to.
There is a post that asks if Apple needs some UNIX people. I think alternatively that UNIX could also use some Apple people.
There really could have been some decent discussions that followed this, and a few of us tried, but the signal to noise ratio on/. has gotten pretty bad. At the very least, if you don't have something constructive to say, keep your comments out of my thread if you can't keep them to yourself entirely.
Apple's bug in the installer, could be blamed on any number of issues, but I think the real underlying issue is more fundamental and philosophical than technical. Yeah, so they screwed up a shell script, and it was kinda obscure and probably outsourced, but more importantly, why was the installer trying to delete ANYTHING? Why would an installer delete anything? it's an INSTALLER!
If something needs to be removed (which should be rare if all of your depondencies include version numbers and such) then the offending item or folder should be moved to the trash. This is after all the purpose of the trash can.
Another problem - why is the iTunes installer installing with root authority? I only use it to play mp3's. I don't need it mucking with my system. I'd use something else if there was something else worth using. SoundJam still wins over iTunes but the Apple Corporate Machine ate that product and had it removed from the market. It's an app. if I need the firewire interaction / automation I'll ask for it. I don't think it should have installed with root authority, there should have been a non authorized install or a drag install.
So the issue we should really be concerned with is not how Apple was removing files, but why!?! And this question is not specific to Apple, it is a concert on all platforms, including yours. This shoud have been an opportunity to discuss, question, and learn. Not flame. And if you do flame, your only justification should be that you were actually affected by the bug.
Although, yes, it's a pretty serious oversight. Apple's installer package of choice seems to be a modified version of the OS installer. While it allows all of the power they need for installing an application, or an OS, or an upgrade, it lacks finesse. In truth, according to some developers who have been told to use that as their installer, it's an incomplete which was custom coded only borely enough to install the OS, and should never be used for apps.
I think this wiil bring to light the serious conceptual flaw of using an OS installer, let alone one renowned for its hackish feel on the underside, for installing applications. This is one good reason that OS departments should be separated from application departments, whether at Apple, M$, or wherever. Maybe Apple shousd be utilizing the drag install which they are trying to sell to the rest of the developer community?
You're all going soft... don't you remember how netscape died! Internet isn't any more right than Navigator would be had M$ not ripped the financial and political testcles off of Netscape. Same goes for Office. If M$ hadn't levereged their way in front of WordPerfect and the like, there'd, still be competition there too. M$ is winning in this forum because the winner gets to write history, and just because their product is the best of breed in a category today doesn't mean that proper evolution and survival of the fittest got it there. When IE started going for free, navigator was held bar none superior by anyone who hadn't yet sold their soul. I agree now, as a web developer, Nav4 is almost impossible to deal with. I blame M$ for taking the money out of the Nav4 dev that should have occurred.
I can't even see clearly what the best product in a class is anymore. What I can see is a large number of different categories that have been raped, pillaged, burned, and now anly have one man standing. I view these niches as improper competition, and less capable of improving the world that we live in any more because they lack the incentive to actually improve themselves, let alone innovate.
I live an a Mac, running OS X, do my word processing in Claris 4, view web pages with iCab as often as possible, I make my multimedia presentations in HTML and not in PowerPoint... I refuse to forget the tragedies that have come upon our industry because of the competition squashing that has come dominantly, and most successfully from one monolithic soulless entity... and I'm not referring to McDonald's. I may not be perfect, I may not even be on the best platform, but I will certainly not slide into complacency and begrudgingly accept M$ as victor in any of this. I will not buy used finger jewelry from a mafia pawn shop, and I will not use M$ office or.NET because it's the best thing left out there. I will indignantly, and possibly to my own detriment, stubbornly refuse to give in based on these moral grounds.
Microsoft may indeed deserve to be a player in these fields, but it has destroyed the fields and made them worthless. I will not stand idly by as the events before me unfold to determine the course of my life. I'm gonna take a stand, and I'm gonna defend it. Right or wrong, I'm gonna defend it.
if users don't ever buys computers based largely on the "gosh ain't it cute" factor, explain the runaway success of the iMac. I just think that Apple is the only company trying to compete in this space that really has stuff to worry about, and as such they have no choice but to look like a bunch of inner thigh appendages.
Really, Microsoft doesn't worry about Apple stealing their look because of market share dynamcis. Linux isn't a company. BeOS moved to embedded.... who's left? Apple's the only people trying to change user interface in a non-incremental fashion. Thier success is a matter of opinion, but if they are the only ones with their wallets and jobs on the line, they're the only ones who'll care about this stuff.
I've used codewarrior on my mac to build up code to run on Solaris. For the vast majority of cases it has been instant compile. In the cases where g++ didn't play the same as Codewarrior, it was g++ being a whore.
Quite frankly, if you're taking an intro course, you should be open to new and innovative ways of doing things. The compiler package that metworwerks has put together is IMHO first rate, far more informative for debugging code, nicer to assemble stuff in, and completely compliant and up to date. Furthermore, I can do Codewarrior on Mac, Windows, I bought a copy that runs on Solaris and prefer that environment to emacs for most stuff... it's a sweet package.
I'd recommend bringing up that you currently compile stuff on an alternate platform, and ask if it'll be an issue, it's a good introduction to where C becomes platform specific. Then use both environments for a while to understand what they each have to offer. The time to be obstinate is not when you are a freshman. Take that from a fifth year senior. (double major, not just slow)
People want to be noticed as individuals without being noticed for screaming that they need attention. Just like people like to show off their homes, or buy expensive sports cars and drive them slowly through parking lots, people want you to notice their individuality through their computer. For many of us, it's the 3rd most expensive thing we'll buy, after the home, and the car. Apple has just been able to tap into that desire. With several billion people out there, everyone just wants to be special.
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also, why doesn't rm have better limiting functionality for scripting use? Or if it does why is it not used? Imagine this command
rm -r --limit 25M
if rm sees the potential deletion set to exceed 25Meg it returns without deleting anything. I know that I would often use this, or maybe default it to something so that I didn't accidentally delete WAY more than I intended to.
There is a post that asks if Apple needs some UNIX people. I think alternatively that UNIX could also use some Apple people.
There really could have been some decent discussions that followed this, and a few of us tried, but the signal to noise ratio on /. has gotten pretty bad. At the very least, if you don't have something constructive to say, keep your comments out of my thread if you can't keep them to yourself entirely.
Apple's bug in the installer, could be blamed on any number of issues, but I think the real underlying issue is more fundamental and philosophical than technical. Yeah, so they screwed up a shell script, and it was kinda obscure and probably outsourced, but more importantly, why was the installer trying to delete ANYTHING? Why would an installer delete anything? it's an INSTALLER!
If something needs to be removed (which should be rare if all of your depondencies include version numbers and such) then the offending item or folder should be moved to the trash. This is after all the purpose of the trash can.
Another problem - why is the iTunes installer installing with root authority? I only use it to play mp3's. I don't need it mucking with my system. I'd use something else if there was something else worth using. SoundJam still wins over iTunes but the Apple Corporate Machine ate that product and had it removed from the market. It's an app. if I need the firewire interaction / automation I'll ask for it. I don't think it should have installed with root authority, there should have been a non authorized install or a drag install.
So the issue we should really be concerned with is not how Apple was removing files, but why!?! And this question is not specific to Apple, it is a concert on all platforms, including yours. This shoud have been an opportunity to discuss, question, and learn. Not flame. And if you do flame, your only justification should be that you were actually affected by the bug.
Although, yes, it's a pretty serious oversight. Apple's installer package of choice seems to be a modified version of the OS installer. While it allows all of the power they need for installing an application, or an OS, or an upgrade, it lacks finesse. In truth, according to some developers who have been told to use that as their installer, it's an incomplete which was custom coded only borely enough to install the OS, and should never be used for apps.
I think this wiil bring to light the serious conceptual flaw of using an OS installer, let alone one renowned for its hackish feel on the underside, for installing applications. This is one good reason that OS departments should be separated from application departments, whether at Apple, M$, or wherever. Maybe Apple shousd be utilizing the drag install which they are trying to sell to the rest of the developer community?
You're all going soft ... don't you remember how netscape died! Internet isn't any more right than Navigator would be had M$ not ripped the financial and political testcles off of Netscape. Same goes for Office. If M$ hadn't levereged their way in front of WordPerfect and the like, there'd, still be competition there too. M$ is winning in this forum because the winner gets to write history, and just because their product is the best of breed in a category today doesn't mean that proper evolution and survival of the fittest got it there. When IE started going for free, navigator was held bar none superior by anyone who hadn't yet sold their soul. I agree now, as a web developer, Nav4 is almost impossible to deal with. I blame M$ for taking the money out of the Nav4 dev that should have occurred.
I can't even see clearly what the best product in a class is anymore. What I can see is a large number of different categories that have been raped, pillaged, burned, and now anly have one man standing. I view these niches as improper competition, and less capable of improving the world that we live in any more because they lack the incentive to actually improve themselves, let alone innovate.
I live an a Mac, running OS X, do my word processing in Claris 4, view web pages with iCab as often as possible, I make my multimedia presentations in HTML and not in PowerPoint... I refuse to forget the tragedies that have come upon our industry because of the competition squashing that has come dominantly, and most successfully from one monolithic soulless entity ... and I'm not referring to McDonald's. I may not be perfect, I may not even be on the best platform, but I will certainly not slide into complacency and begrudgingly accept M$ as victor in any of this. I will not buy used finger jewelry from a mafia pawn shop, and I will not use M$ office or .NET because it's the best thing left out there. I will indignantly, and possibly to my own detriment, stubbornly refuse to give in based on these moral grounds.
Microsoft may indeed deserve to be a player in these fields, but it has destroyed the fields and made them worthless. I will not stand idly by as the events before me unfold to determine the course of my life. I'm gonna take a stand, and I'm gonna defend it. Right or wrong, I'm gonna defend it.
if users don't ever buys computers based largely on the "gosh ain't it cute" factor, explain the runaway success of the iMac. I just think that Apple is the only company trying to compete in this space that really has stuff to worry about, and as such they have no choice but to look like a bunch of inner thigh appendages. Really, Microsoft doesn't worry about Apple stealing their look because of market share dynamcis. Linux isn't a company. BeOS moved to embedded. ... who's left? Apple's the only people trying to change user interface in a non-incremental fashion. Thier success is a matter of opinion, but if they are the only ones with their wallets and jobs on the line, they're the only ones who'll care about this stuff.
I've used codewarrior on my mac to build up code to run on Solaris. For the vast majority of cases it has been instant compile. In the cases where g++ didn't play the same as Codewarrior, it was g++ being a whore. Quite frankly, if you're taking an intro course, you should be open to new and innovative ways of doing things. The compiler package that metworwerks has put together is IMHO first rate, far more informative for debugging code, nicer to assemble stuff in, and completely compliant and up to date. Furthermore, I can do Codewarrior on Mac, Windows, I bought a copy that runs on Solaris and prefer that environment to emacs for most stuff ... it's a sweet package.
I'd recommend bringing up that you currently compile stuff on an alternate platform, and ask if it'll be an issue, it's a good introduction to where C becomes platform specific. Then use both environments for a while to understand what they each have to offer. The time to be obstinate is not when you are a freshman. Take that from a fifth year senior. (double major, not just slow)
People want to be noticed as individuals without being noticed for screaming that they need attention. Just like people like to show off their homes, or buy expensive sports cars and drive them slowly through parking lots, people want you to notice their individuality through their computer. For many of us, it's the 3rd most expensive thing we'll buy, after the home, and the car. Apple has just been able to tap into that desire. With several billion people out there, everyone just wants to be special.