Cecil Adams covered the question of how much a cloud weighs in "The Straight Dope" a long time ago.
I just thought some folks might have some interest in his discussion of this question.
I wonder when people will get the notion that there is no "best" programming language. Discussing the suitability (or lack thereof) of a programming language without discussing what sorts of tasks the programming language is supposed to do is just plain dumb.
Is the name of the city Tampa, Florida? Then I stand corrected.
And, again, I'm no lawyer but I do believe that the law would consider a police officer who thinks that someone looks like a felon that the police officer has seen on an APB or a wanted poster to assume there is reasonable cause to stop that person.
Basically your logic seems to me to be much the same as the underlying logic of some gun-control advocates--that is, it's okay to treat law-abiding citizens the same as we treat criminals as long as we prevent crime. I simply don't agree with that position or that logic.
While you raise a good point, I think you're possibly confusing some issues. When a government entity pulls this sort of behavior (like the City of Tampa Bay, Florida) there are concerns above and beyond privacy; specifically, there are laws saying that in order for a police officer to accost a person, that police officer must have reasonable cause to suspect that a person is engaged in some sort of illegal activity. And I believe those laws also cover municipalities. Therefore to simply scan everyone's face on the off-chance that you may catch known felons is illegal besides being an invasion of privacy.
Now, as far as I know, a private corporation doesn't have to have a reasonable cause to suspect that someone is committing a crime to have a security guard or some representative of the firm accost that person. Note: I'm no lawyer. I do know that the Police must have reasonable cause because my father used to be a police officer and he explained that concept to me.
At any rate, you can be assured that Borders already has video cameras in their stores. Taking the next step and matching the images captured against a database of known shoplifters may be an invasion of privacy but it's not as big a shift in policy as some would make it out to be.
As I said before on a slightly different topic; if you have concerns about Borders invading your privacy, shop somewhere else. If enough people stop shopping at Borders and let Borders know exactly why they aren't spending their money at Borders, you can be assured that Borders will change their policy. Hit a business in the wallet and you'll see how quickly they'll change their tune.
I understand the invasion of privacy concerns, but aren't there other ISP's in Australia? I mean, it seems to me the best thing for those folks to do is to vote with their dollars and give business to other ISP's that won't invade their privacy. Excite@Home is about a hair's breadth away from going out of business, anyway.
The best answer is to hit a business with odious practices like this where they live. Hit them in the wallet. If enough people start switching ISP's, you can bet they'll back off on monitoring people's downloading habits.
Is anyone really surprised that Disney would rip-off anime? I mean, the fact that we got a "Beverly Hillbillies" movie and the fact that there's a "Gilligan's Island" movie in production right now shows the lack of original thinking in Hollywood. Why would Disney be any better?
Onorio Catenacci
-- "And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
Yes, there is a very easy solution. Static linking. Take a look here for a discussion of why DLL's (and the analogous Shared Libraries) might be a promise that simply hasn't panned out.
Onorio Catenacci
-- "And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
I know that on/. I'm probably preaching to the choir, but this Microsoft Subscription software model (which is very similar to what Dan Gillmor was discussing) ought to scare the daylights out of a lot of businesses. Microsoft has shown repeatedly that they have no qualms about pulling the sort of underhanded tactics that would have made a Borgia pope blush. And businesses are going to trust them to serve apps to them via the internet? God, I feel sorry for any businesses that are foolish enough to buy into that vision of the world.
Onorio Catenacci
-- "And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
Well, it's certainly interesting to hear the opposing point of view every once in a while. However, I believe you've missed the point. Microsoft doesn't give away software for free because they believe in openness and innovation. They give away software for free for two reasons:
1.) To price their competitors right out of the market. For example, if I have to pay $25 for Netscape (and I don't remember how much it was) and I can get IE for free (and later IE was built right into the OS) which one do you think I'll use?
2.) To solidify their hold on their monopoly. By giving away software for free they make it more likely that their software will become the de facto standard. And when their software becomes the de facto standard, they can do whatever they like and everyone else has to dance to their tune.
So basically I think your arguments are based on a false premise. If Microsoft gives software away it's only so that they can extend their monopoly.
Onorio Catenacci
-- "And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
If Flikx used university servers then he should respect the university's wishes. If he paid for the web hosting himself then they wouldn't be able to do a thing to him legally. In the case where someone provides you with free hosting, they've got a very strong case for owning the entire site (messages and code and all). It's just a shame that Flikx might get expelled because some administrators have a branch up their rectums. It sounds as if they're trying to make an example of him.
Onorio Catenacci
-- "And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
I wonder why it is that no bright entrepeneur has come up with the concept of using guaranteed privacy as a way to lure customers to their website. I mean given the choice between Amazon.com (which has already demonstrated a tendency to play fast and loose with the truth when it comes to users' privacy) and some other website which went out of its way to protect my privacy, I'd choose the latter. I know it would take a while for people to be convinced that "PrivacyUberAlles.Com" is really not going to violate people's privacy. However even before people are convinced a smart marketer should be able to play up an ironclad privacy policy to the advantage of the website. I'd even be willing to pay a little premium (as I suspect many people would) to have a better guarantee of privacy.
Onorio Catenacci
-- "And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
These two were bright enough to hack into CD Universe and Western Union but they weren't bright enough to consider that their keystrokes might be recorded? And apparently they weren't bright enough to use different passwords for their different accounts (or did the FBI have them demonstrate their hacking skills by hacking into their own accounts?)
Onorio Catenacci
-- "And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
Interesting you should bring this up today
on
Killing Video Games
·
· Score: 1
For once I find myself whole-heartedly in agreement with Mr. Katz. Politicians and the people who shape public policy aren't interested in facts; they're interested in good sound-bites. An article at alternet by a social scientist makes an excellent case for the youth of today being at least as well adjusted as they were in the past. They may even be better adjusted in some ways. However, it's the tragedies like Columbine which get public attention. And that's what politicians use to justify wrong-headed policies that deprive people of basic freedoms.
Onorio Catenacci
-- "And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
You know it seems to me that this is an opportunity to address a big problem: the digital divide. These old computers could be fixed up with Linux and installed into schools. The old PC's would get some more useful life, the kids would get to learn to use computers (and learn that there is other software besides Microsoft) and we'd be making a start on closing the "Digital Divide". I wonder if anyone is already doing something like this.
Of course, that wouldn't address the problem of a machine that's ceased to work because one or more of its components have simply worn out.
Onorio Catenacci
-- "And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
I wonder why they did this with Netscape and not Mozilla. Or even IE <ack!>. I mean is Netscape that much better in its extensiblity than IE? If extensibility is the issue then you'd think they would use Mozilla. How much more extensible can one get than an open source implementation?
Onorio Catenacci
-- "And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
I think there is a valid concern that people raised on computers may not learn how to think critically about the information they are receiving from those computers. I am reminded of an old maxim called Gallois' Revelation: "If you put tomfoolery in a computer nothing comes out but tomfoolery. But this tomfoolery, having passed through a very expensive machine, is somehow enobled and none dare criticize it." If kids don't learn to question the tomfoolery which can come out of computers, then we are in trouble. That's where critical thinking is important.
Onorio Catenacci
-- "And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
This strikes me as the same sort of distortion of an artistic product as the colorizing of black and white movies a few years back. And it will probably be just as obvious. I can't wait for them to start digitally dubbing in dialog. I can just imagine it:
"Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. But if I did, I'd suggest that we go to see Dr. Marvin Monroe, Marital Counselor."
"We'll always have Paris where we can visit EuroDisney and have a great time with the family!"
Onorio Catenacci
-- "And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
In light of the recent report of the death of desktop Linux one wonders if this is maybe the niche that Linux is destined to fill. I mean to say that perhaps Linux will become the embedded OS of choice for those people making smart phones, mp3 players and so forth.
Onorio Catenacci
-- "And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
Re:You Linux-loving morons, here's some reality
on
Qt for Mac
·
· Score: 4
Keep thinking that. Even Microsoft is starting to wake up to the reality that Windows on a desktop PC is becoming less and less important. Why do you think they brought out C# (aka Project Cool aka Java Killer) and they've started this whole.NET initiative? They're trying to find some way to extend their monopoly to the web.
Furthermore Microsoft is starting to realize that people aren't upgrading at the furious rate they used to. This is why Microsoft is seriously considering trying to shaft all those folks who buy their OS by forcing them to pay a monthly fee in order to use it. Personally, I'll be glad when this happens because it will make a free OS that much more appealing to a lot of people. Having to pay a Microsoft tax won't go over well.
Onorio Catenacci
-- "And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
The reaction to this strikes me as another good example of the "everything on the web should be free" mentality.
Where is it such a crime for these people to start charging for access? I think all of us would agree that the people who maintain this database deserve to be compensated for their work. That salary has to come from somewhere, doesn't it?
And the storage space for all the patent information. The hardware (disks, cpu, etc.) that's not free is it?
I don't know what IBM's business model was when they were running it but you can be assured that IBM doesn't give stuff away; somehow they saw this database as a benefit to themselves.
Onorio Catenacci
-- "And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
Lighten up and take off the pocket protector for a minute. As Foghorn Leghorn would say (and who can resist a gratuitious "Looney Toons" quote?) "It's a joke son!"
I guess some of us have to have our humor make sense...blech.
-- Onorio Catenacci
-- "And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
I know I'm probably preaching to the converted considering that I'm posting these remarks on/. but so be it.
These security holes are just more proof that we, as informed users, need to not only use non-MS solutions (use Eudora for email; use Opera for browsing; etc. etc.) but we also need to let others know that there are alternatives to the security-hole-ridden stuff that Microsoft puts out. I can't tell you how many people I've talked with, technical people mind you, who don't know that there's any browser besides IE.
-- Onorio Catenacci
-- "And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
Microsoft, more so with Windows 2000 than in the past, seems to be trying to sell to the enterprise market. Linux seems to be making inroads faster into the enterprise market space than Windows 2000 is. One indication of this acceptance is the deployment rate for Apache Webservers. There are other indications that Linux is gaining acceptance in the enterprise software market. What can Microsoft do to make their software more "enterprise friendly" and how concerned is Microsoft about the seeming popularity of Linux as an enterprise solution?
-- Onorio Catenacci
-- "And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
Slashdot Mirror
Cecil Adams covered the question of how much a cloud weighs in "The Straight Dope" a long time ago. I just thought some folks might have some interest in his discussion of this question.
I wonder when people will get the notion that there is no "best" programming language. Discussing the suitability (or lack thereof) of a programming language without discussing what sorts of tasks the programming language is supposed to do is just plain dumb.
--
Onorio Catenacci
Is the name of the city Tampa, Florida? Then I stand corrected.
And, again, I'm no lawyer but I do believe that the law would consider a police officer who thinks that someone looks like a felon that the police officer has seen on an APB or a wanted poster to assume there is reasonable cause to stop that person.
Basically your logic seems to me to be much the same as the underlying logic of some gun-control advocates--that is, it's okay to treat law-abiding citizens the same as we treat criminals as long as we prevent crime. I simply don't agree with that position or that logic.
--
Onorio Catenacci
While you raise a good point, I think you're possibly confusing some issues. When a government entity pulls this sort of behavior (like the City of Tampa Bay, Florida) there are concerns above and beyond privacy; specifically, there are laws saying that in order for a police officer to accost a person, that police officer must have reasonable cause to suspect that a person is engaged in some sort of illegal activity. And I believe those laws also cover municipalities. Therefore to simply scan everyone's face on the off-chance that you may catch known felons is illegal besides being an invasion of privacy.
Now, as far as I know, a private corporation doesn't have to have a reasonable cause to suspect that someone is committing a crime to have a security guard or some representative of the firm accost that person. Note: I'm no lawyer. I do know that the Police must have reasonable cause because my father used to be a police officer and he explained that concept to me.
At any rate, you can be assured that Borders already has video cameras in their stores. Taking the next step and matching the images captured against a database of known shoplifters may be an invasion of privacy but it's not as big a shift in policy as some would make it out to be.
As I said before on a slightly different topic; if you have concerns about Borders invading your privacy, shop somewhere else. If enough people stop shopping at Borders and let Borders know exactly why they aren't spending their money at Borders, you can be assured that Borders will change their policy. Hit a business in the wallet and you'll see how quickly they'll change their tune.
Onorio Catenacci
I understand the invasion of privacy concerns, but aren't there other ISP's in Australia? I mean, it seems to me the best thing for those folks to do is to vote with their dollars and give business to other ISP's that won't invade their privacy. Excite@Home is about a hair's breadth away from going out of business, anyway.
The best answer is to hit a business with odious practices like this where they live. Hit them in the wallet. If enough people start switching ISP's, you can bet they'll back off on monitoring people's downloading habits.
Is anyone really surprised that Disney would rip-off anime? I mean, the fact that we got a "Beverly Hillbillies" movie and the fact that there's a "Gilligan's Island" movie in production right now shows the lack of original thinking in Hollywood. Why would Disney be any better?
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
Yes, there is a very easy solution. Static linking. Take a look here for a discussion of why DLL's (and the analogous Shared Libraries) might be a promise that simply hasn't panned out.
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
I know that on /. I'm probably preaching to the choir, but this Microsoft Subscription software model (which is very similar to what Dan Gillmor was discussing) ought to scare the daylights out of a lot of businesses. Microsoft has shown repeatedly that they have no qualms about pulling the sort of underhanded tactics that would have made a Borgia pope blush. And businesses are going to trust them to serve apps to them via the internet? God, I feel sorry for any businesses that are foolish enough to buy into that vision of the world.
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
Well, it's certainly interesting to hear the opposing point of view every once in a while. However, I believe you've missed the point. Microsoft doesn't give away software for free because they believe in openness and innovation. They give away software for free for two reasons:
1.) To price their competitors right out of the market. For example, if I have to pay $25 for Netscape (and I don't remember how much it was) and I can get IE for free (and later IE was built right into the OS) which one do you think I'll use?
2.) To solidify their hold on their monopoly. By giving away software for free they make it more likely that their software will become the de facto standard. And when their software becomes the de facto standard, they can do whatever they like and everyone else has to dance to their tune.
So basically I think your arguments are based on a false premise. If Microsoft gives software away it's only so that they can extend their monopoly.
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
If Flikx used university servers then he should respect the university's wishes. If he paid for the web hosting himself then they wouldn't be able to do a thing to him legally. In the case where someone provides you with free hosting, they've got a very strong case for owning the entire site (messages and code and all). It's just a shame that Flikx might get expelled because some administrators have a branch up their rectums. It sounds as if they're trying to make an example of him.
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
How about Hushmail? Or another source--ZipLip?
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
I wonder why it is that no bright entrepeneur has come up with the concept of using guaranteed privacy as a way to lure customers to their website. I mean given the choice between Amazon.com (which has already demonstrated a tendency to play fast and loose with the truth when it comes to users' privacy) and some other website which went out of its way to protect my privacy, I'd choose the latter. I know it would take a while for people to be convinced that "PrivacyUberAlles.Com" is really not going to violate people's privacy. However even before people are convinced a smart marketer should be able to play up an ironclad privacy policy to the advantage of the website. I'd even be willing to pay a little premium (as I suspect many people would) to have a better guarantee of privacy.
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
These two were bright enough to hack into CD Universe and Western Union but they weren't bright enough to consider that their keystrokes might be recorded? And apparently they weren't bright enough to use different passwords for their different accounts (or did the FBI have them demonstrate their hacking skills by hacking into their own accounts?)
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
For once I find myself whole-heartedly in agreement with Mr. Katz. Politicians and the people who shape public policy aren't interested in facts; they're interested in good sound-bites. An article at alternet by a social scientist makes an excellent case for the youth of today being at least as well adjusted as they were in the past. They may even be better adjusted in some ways. However, it's the tragedies like Columbine which get public attention. And that's what politicians use to justify wrong-headed policies that deprive people of basic freedoms.
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
You know it seems to me that this is an opportunity to address a big problem: the digital divide. These old computers could be fixed up with Linux and installed into schools. The old PC's would get some more useful life, the kids would get to learn to use computers (and learn that there is other software besides Microsoft) and we'd be making a start on closing the "Digital Divide". I wonder if anyone is already doing something like this.
Of course, that wouldn't address the problem of a machine that's ceased to work because one or more of its components have simply worn out.
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
I wonder why they did this with Netscape and not Mozilla. Or even IE <ack!>. I mean is Netscape that much better in its extensiblity than IE? If extensibility is the issue then you'd think they would use Mozilla. How much more extensible can one get than an open source implementation?
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
I think there is a valid concern that people raised on computers may not learn how to think critically about the information they are receiving from those computers. I am reminded of an old maxim called Gallois' Revelation: "If you put tomfoolery in a computer nothing comes out but tomfoolery. But this tomfoolery, having passed through a very expensive machine, is somehow enobled and none dare criticize it." If kids don't learn to question the tomfoolery which can come out of computers, then we are in trouble. That's where critical thinking is important.
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
This strikes me as the same sort of distortion of an artistic product as the colorizing of black and white movies a few years back. And it will probably be just as obvious. I can't wait for them to start digitally dubbing in dialog. I can just imagine it:
"Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. But if I did, I'd suggest that we go to see Dr. Marvin Monroe, Marital Counselor."
"We'll always have Paris where we can visit EuroDisney and have a great time with the family!"
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
In light of the recent report of the death of desktop Linux one wonders if this is maybe the niche that Linux is destined to fill. I mean to say that perhaps Linux will become the embedded OS of choice for those people making smart phones, mp3 players and so forth.
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
Keep thinking that. Even Microsoft is starting to wake up to the reality that Windows on a desktop PC is becoming less and less important. Why do you think they brought out C# (aka Project Cool aka Java Killer) and they've started this whole .NET initiative? They're trying to find some way to extend their monopoly to the web.
Furthermore Microsoft is starting to realize that people aren't upgrading at the furious rate they used to. This is why Microsoft is seriously considering trying to shaft all those folks who buy their OS by forcing them to pay a monthly fee in order to use it. Personally, I'll be glad when this happens because it will make a free OS that much more appealing to a lot of people. Having to pay a Microsoft tax won't go over well.
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
The reaction to this strikes me as another good example of the "everything on the web should be free" mentality.
Where is it such a crime for these people to start charging for access? I think all of us would agree that the people who maintain this database deserve to be compensated for their work. That salary has to come from somewhere, doesn't it?
And the storage space for all the patent information. The hardware (disks, cpu, etc.) that's not free is it?
I don't know what IBM's business model was when they were running it but you can be assured that IBM doesn't give stuff away; somehow they saw this database as a benefit to themselves.
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
Lighten up and take off the pocket protector for a minute. As Foghorn Leghorn would say (and who can resist a gratuitious "Looney Toons" quote?) "It's a joke son!"
I guess some of us have to have our humor make sense...blech.
--
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
I know I'm probably preaching to the converted considering that I'm posting these remarks on /. but so be it.
These security holes are just more proof that we, as informed users, need to not only use non-MS solutions (use Eudora for email; use Opera for browsing; etc. etc.) but we also need to let others know that there are alternatives to the security-hole-ridden stuff that Microsoft puts out. I can't tell you how many people I've talked with, technical people mind you, who don't know that there's any browser besides IE.
--
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
Microsoft, more so with Windows 2000 than in the past, seems to be trying to sell to the enterprise market. Linux seems to be making inroads faster into the enterprise market space than Windows 2000 is. One indication of this acceptance is the deployment rate for Apache Webservers. There are other indications that Linux is gaining acceptance in the enterprise software market. What can Microsoft do to make their software more "enterprise friendly" and how concerned is Microsoft about the seeming popularity of Linux as an enterprise solution?
--
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."
It's nice to see that at least one of our elected officials "gets it" with relation to the digital revolution.
Onorio Catenacci
--
"And that's the world in a nutshell -- an appropriate receptacle."