To: GNU libc testers
Subject: glibc 2.2.4
From: Ulrich Drepper
Date: 15 Aug 2001 22:09:23 -0700
Release 2.2.4 of the GNU C library is now available at
ftp://sources.redhat.com/pub/glibc/releases
[end quote]
I can't make much out of Drepper's accusations. What exactly is supposed to have happened? And what is so different about the LGPL 2.1 that Drepper does not like?
Both versions have the "any later version" clause. Is it only that ver. 2.1 mentions the term Gnu/Linux? But it's only used there as an example, nothing legaly requires you to follow that example. Does Drepper now wish that the GNU libc library could be re-named to the Linux libc library, or what? Why did he originally license it under a GNU license in the first place? Or did he? Who originally named it the Gnu libc? What is the history of glibc?
Has anyone seen or heard or read anything that backs up these claims?
Why does he need to ask if it's a known, published fact? Why doesn't he just provide links to the documents stating the assertation? Where did you read or hear that the FSF wants to criminalize certain types of licenses?
The FSF advocates Software Libre as the Ethical choice. Nothing I've ever read by them has left me with the impression that the FSF wants to criminalize anything. You can release the code you write under whatever license you want, legally. Ethically, now that's another question.
"warmed over Ayn Rand" marketers can't seem to understand that there is more to life then consumerism. Sometimes we need to make decisions based on other values. As humans, and as individuals, we are capable of having a range needs and desires. Sometimes those things conflict, and we need to priortize which are more important, and what tool to use to prioritize those desires.
"competition in the marketplace; that is the answer." No, it's not, not when we are talking about ethics. I don't want every relationship with others in my life to be based on competition, that would reduce my quality of life to much.
So, again, it looks like Eric Raymond has created a straw man, an issue which only exists in his own mind. It's not a legal issue, it's an ethical issue. Does he understand the difference?
I both disagree and agree with the infoworld article...
First. MS Hailstorm (and Passport) don't have anything to do with Mono or the C# programming environment as far as I can tell. Mono is basicly a free software version of C#, not a free software version of everything the MS marketing department (you mean there's other MS departments?) has decided and will decide to throw under the.NET moniker. The relation between MS Passport and C# is coincidental.
Second. I don't understand what makes C# so superior to Java that we need it. The only reason MS is using it instead of Java is because they do not have a license to use Java. Microsoft, and Sun Settle. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be ported, I mean, name a language that isn't supported by free software.
Third. Nicholas Petreley is right that MS Passport is a problem, and the real threat to computer users and an open Internet. What is needed is a Internet Standard way of managing authentification, one that is standard and independant of any one company or computer platform. Where is the auth: RFC?
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If they have old stock they need to get rid of, please send to a country were the world bank has dictated that the exchange rates be soo bad that such hardware costs several years salary.
Some people here seem to think that latency is only relevant for online-games, but the Net is full of interactive applications. Web-mail sucks on a high latency connection, as does irc and other chat programs. Lots of what look like ordinary html pages are generated by interactive database servers, which send and wait for lots of little requests.
"Broadband" is what you need for your tv, where you are a passive consumer of life-style marketing. The Internet, all of it, is much better because it's not just one-way, you can actually interact with others.
>What we really need here is:
>.....
>one of the free Office suites (Abiword + >Gnumeric, KOffice, I don't care) to get off its >ass and work diligently on complete import and
>export compatibility with MS Office
In my experience, the reason people here want use word and excel is for the library of graphics. People love to add fluffy little carton characters to their domunents. Everytime I suggest someone use AbiWord or Gnumeric, they are fine for a bit, but then they get stuck when they click -Insert graphic- and there is no preview catalog of silly images.
>Unicode, the semi-commercial equivalent of
>UCS-2 (ISO 10646-1)
How is unicode commercial, and if it is, how does that effect it's use with software-libre? Who owns unicode, what kind of license does it have? A quick look at www.unicode.org isn't very informative on this subject.
I learned to compute on an old 8088 with dos 2, 256k of ram and no hdd when everyelse had 486's with windows 3.1 and were saving up for a new pentium. It loaded WordPerfect, or some spreadsheet program from the old big floppy's. So thoses old machines will do fine for anyone with a interest.
Right now I'm in Guatemala, and I can tell you that we would be happy to get a shitload of 486's or pentiums. Just off the top of my head, I know of several organizations that can make good use of those dinosaurs you have clutering up your storage space. So why not call up your local friendly shippers, they'll come down, back them up, and take them away.
Drop me a note at alan at celasmaya dot edu dot gt if you want some details on how to send those machines down here.
Exactly right. If for example the Mozilla developers would use p-100's maybe their program might be usable on all those old machines you guys are going to donate to the developing world.
Of course, when you send out those old machines, people here can get to work fixing the huge, bloated stuff that comes out of all those 1 G workstations.
As other people have already said, send them out to development projects in other parts of the world. Here in Guatemala, shops sell old 486's for $200 or more. Schools and non-profits are starving for machines.
You say you have a room full of old pentiums weighing on your mind? Find a place to send them to, call in a shipping company, they'll take it from there. They'll pack them up, and take them away. But don't send crappy monitors, people here can't afford to get laser surgery to fix their eyes, and english keyboards are a waste of time, even here keyboards are relatively cheap.
Here in Xela, I know of several organizations that are desperate for computers, so if you get in touch with me, I'll make sure those machines go to a good home.
Well, the only reason you and I have money to buy stuff is because the country's we live in have allowed strong trade unions to speak up for things like workers rights. You know what happens to trade union leaders here in Guatemala? The Dole fruit company pays thugs to kill them.
I haven't noticed any restrictions on what sites we can see, though some politicians and church leaders have talked about doing something.
But the biggest restricions here in Guatemala are cost and ignorance. A big part of the population can't read. And salaries here are a 10th of what they are in Canada, while the line costs 5 times as much. These things are very much a result of US government policies thru the IMF, etc, etc.
Do you think the US really is interested in getting the worlds 5 billion poor online?
I mean, when a companies stock goes up, the company doesn't get any of that money. In fact, nobody does, unless someone who has shares in that company sells them. Even then, a lot of it goes to the stock broker.
>But, really, there are enough people out there
>who admit to being both socially liberal and
>financially conservative that I think another
>party/direction would make sense.
That's called being Liberal. If you're both socially and financially "liberal" you're socialist. If you look at, for instance, the Liberal party in Canada, they are quite capitalistic, but believe in balancing that by spending public dollars on education and health-care. At least that's what they claim they believe in, though they've moved more conservative in the last few decades.
But you're right that your country could use more political parties, in a democracy, having a choice of only 2 parties, which are pretty much the same, is a facade.
Can someone run the strings command on the other software provided by these nice folks? They have a lot of modules to their portal system, if we know they are using gpl'ed code in one module, what about the others?
Is anyone else out there noticing that HelixCode and Eazel are working on competing products? Both companies want to sell services to Gnome users, using their respective products, Eazel Nautilus and Helix Red Carpet. Both products have the same goal; offer easy software updates to users.
So what's with the question about Helix shipping Nautilus as part of their default? If Helix used Nautilus, there would be no point in having Red Carpet. I like how Miguel beat around the bush when asked this question.
if he answered the questions instead of beating around the bush.
The interviewer asks about other Linux distributions, and he talks about microsoft.
The interviewer asks about a specific type of application, and he talks about the free software development model.
And on and on. It's boring and doesn't do a lot to build trust in Red Hat.
Slashdot Mirror
Subject: glibc 2.2.4
From: Ulrich Drepper
Date: 15 Aug 2001 22:09:23 -0700
Release 2.2.4 of the GNU C library is now available at ftp://sources.redhat.com/pub/glibc/releases
[end quote]
I can't make much out of Drepper's accusations. What exactly is supposed to have happened? And what is so different about the LGPL 2.1 that Drepper does not like?
LGPL 2.0 or LGPL 2.1
Both versions have the "any later version" clause. Is it only that ver. 2.1 mentions the term Gnu/Linux? But it's only used there as an example, nothing legaly requires you to follow that example. Does Drepper now wish that the GNU libc library could be re-named to the Linux libc library, or what? Why did he originally license it under a GNU license in the first place? Or did he? Who originally named it the Gnu libc? What is the history of glibc?
Has anyone seen or heard or read anything that backs up these claims?
Why does he need to ask if it's a known, published fact? Why doesn't he just provide links to the documents stating the assertation? Where did you read or hear that the FSF wants to criminalize certain types of licenses?
No.
The FSF advocates Software Libre as the Ethical choice. Nothing I've ever read by them has left me with the impression that the FSF wants to criminalize anything. You can release the code you write under whatever license you want, legally. Ethically, now that's another question.
"warmed over Ayn Rand" marketers can't seem to understand that there is more to life then consumerism. Sometimes we need to make decisions based on other values. As humans, and as individuals, we are capable of having a range needs and desires. Sometimes those things conflict, and we need to priortize which are more important, and what tool to use to prioritize those desires.
"competition in the marketplace; that is the answer." No, it's not, not when we are talking about ethics. I don't want every relationship with others in my life to be based on competition, that would reduce my quality of life to much.
So, again, it looks like Eric Raymond has created a straw man, an issue which only exists in his own mind. It's not a legal issue, it's an ethical issue. Does he understand the difference?
First. MS Hailstorm (and Passport) don't have anything to do with Mono or the C# programming environment as far as I can tell. Mono is basicly a free software version of C#, not a free software version of everything the MS marketing department (you mean there's other MS departments?) has decided and will decide to throw under the .NET moniker. The relation between MS Passport and C# is coincidental.
Second. I don't understand what makes C# so superior to Java that we need it. The only reason MS is using it instead of Java is because they do not have a license to use Java. Microsoft, and Sun Settle. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be ported, I mean, name a language that isn't supported by free software.
Third. Nicholas Petreley is right that MS Passport is a problem, and the real threat to computer users and an open Internet. What is needed is a Internet Standard way of managing authentification, one that is standard and independant of any one company or computer platform. Where is the auth: RFC?
Fourth. Mono is Free Software :-) (Software Libre) not Open Source
MS can Embrace and Extend Open Source software, it can't Embrace and Extend Free Software.
Make IE optional
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If they have old stock they need to get rid of, please send to a country were the world bank has dictated that the exchange rates be soo bad that such hardware costs several years salary.
All the best rumors say so...
RedHat to BUY GreatBridge (postgreSQL) ???
If they are planning to compete with Oracle, what other GPL database is there?
"Broadband" is what you need for your tv, where you are a passive consumer of life-style marketing. The Internet, all of it, is much better because it's not just one-way, you can actually interact with others.
>What we really need here is:
>.....
>one of the free Office suites (Abiword + >Gnumeric, KOffice, I don't care) to get off its >ass and work diligently on complete import and
>export compatibility with MS Office
In my experience, the reason people here want use word and excel is for the library of graphics. People love to add fluffy little carton characters to their domunents. Everytime I suggest someone use AbiWord or Gnumeric, they are fine for a bit, but then they get stuck when they click -Insert graphic- and there is no preview catalog of silly images.
>Unicode, the semi-commercial equivalent of
>UCS-2 (ISO 10646-1)
How is unicode commercial, and if it is, how does that effect it's use with software-libre? Who owns unicode, what kind of license does it have? A quick look at www.unicode.org isn't very informative on this subject.
I learned to compute on an old 8088 with dos 2, 256k of ram and no hdd when everyelse had 486's with windows 3.1 and were saving up for a new pentium. It loaded WordPerfect, or some spreadsheet program from the old big floppy's. So thoses old machines will do fine for anyone with a interest.
Right now I'm in Guatemala, and I can tell you that we would be happy to get a shitload of 486's or pentiums. Just off the top of my head, I know of several organizations that can make good use of those dinosaurs you have clutering up your storage space. So why not call up your local friendly shippers, they'll come down, back them up, and take them away.
Drop me a note at alan at celasmaya dot edu dot gt if you want some details on how to send those machines down here.
Exactly right. If for example the Mozilla developers would use p-100's maybe their program might be usable on all those old machines you guys are going to donate to the developing world.
Of course, when you send out those old machines, people here can get to work fixing the huge, bloated stuff that comes out of all those 1 G workstations.
As other people have already said, send them out to development projects in other parts of the world. Here in Guatemala, shops sell old 486's for $200 or more. Schools and non-profits are starving for machines.
You say you have a room full of old pentiums weighing on your mind? Find a place to send them to, call in a shipping company, they'll take it from there. They'll pack them up, and take them away. But don't send crappy monitors, people here can't afford to get laser surgery to fix their eyes, and english keyboards are a waste of time, even here keyboards are relatively cheap.
Here in Xela, I know of several organizations that are desperate for computers, so if you get in touch with me, I'll make sure those machines go to a good home.
alan at celasmaya dot edu dot gt
Well, the only reason you and I have money to buy stuff is because the country's we live in have allowed strong trade unions to speak up for things like workers rights. You know what happens to trade union leaders here in Guatemala? The Dole fruit company pays thugs to kill them.
I haven't noticed any restrictions on what sites we can see, though some politicians and church leaders have talked about doing something.
But the biggest restricions here in Guatemala are cost and ignorance. A big part of the population can't read. And salaries here are a 10th of what they are in Canada, while the line costs 5 times as much. These things are very much a result of US government policies thru the IMF, etc, etc.
Do you think the US really is interested in getting the worlds 5 billion poor online?
Or: Profits do not equal Stock Prices.
I mean, when a companies stock goes up, the company doesn't get any of that money. In fact, nobody does, unless someone who has shares in that company sells them. Even then, a lot of it goes to the stock broker.
>But, really, there are enough people out there
>who admit to being both socially liberal and
>financially conservative that I think another
>party/direction would make sense.
That's called being Liberal. If you're both socially and financially "liberal" you're socialist. If you look at, for instance, the Liberal party in Canada, they are quite capitalistic, but believe in balancing that by spending public dollars on education and health-care. At least that's what they claim they believe in, though they've moved more conservative in the last few decades.
But you're right that your country could use more political parties, in a democracy, having a choice of only 2 parties, which are pretty much the same, is a facade.
Can someone run the strings command on the other software provided by these nice folks? They have a lot of modules to their portal system, if we know they are using gpl'ed code in one module, what about the others?
Just a question, how do you register your copyright in India? Russia?
I don't think that Helix will use Nautilus. See my post (Red Carpet vs Nautilus) further down for why.
So what's with the question about Helix shipping Nautilus as part of their default? If Helix used Nautilus, there would be no point in having Red Carpet. I like how Miguel beat around the bush when asked this question.
http://www.eazel.com/catalog/info
http://www.helixcode.com/apps/redcarpet.php3
Well, yesterday was Day of the Innocents [I should know :-(] here in Guatemala, so that could be it.
came with my Psion 5mx. All it lacks is ethernet access.
if he answered the questions instead of beating around the bush.
The interviewer asks about other Linux distributions, and he talks about microsoft.
The interviewer asks about a specific type of application, and he talks about the free software development model.
And on and on. It's boring and doesn't do a lot to build trust in Red Hat.
Make all international character sets trivial to incorporate or implement.