The goal is to generally expand the state, employ prison guard union members and other minions of the criminal justice system, advance the careers of police and prosecutors, and pimp a quasi-slave labor force.
The populace never disapproves because they love to see people get sent away, as long as it isn't them. That's the marketing strategy, though if the people thought about it in economic terms they'd be pissed.
Troll my fucking ass. If you think I'm defending Awwad, I'm not and you're missing the point:
ACTUAL harm to national security was done by the FBI agents instigating Awwad into stealing classified information and bringing it out into the unsecured "wild." Preventing this breach is the #1 purpose of counterintelligence. Busting people who steal classified is #2, because if it gets to that point, the harm to national security has already been occurred because:
NOW IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO BE CERTAIN OF THE WHEREABOUTS OF AN INDETERMINATE AMOUNT OF CLASSIFIED INFORMATION!
After the Awwad creep gave them a 1TB hard drive on Oct. 23, he was STILL FREE FOR 35 MORE DAYS running amok in a facility with ineptly secured classified (or he would not have been able to steal it--it's supposed to be nearly fucking IMPOSSIBLE!), potentially stealing who knows how much additional classified information besides the photos of some printed drawing that they think they saw him photographing.
So can anyone be sure that he:
1. put everything that he stole prior to the Oct. 23 drop into the hole and that was the only copy?
2. did not copy the classified files onto or through personal computing devices with internet connectivity and which have a significant likelihood of being compromised, potentially by the malware of real enemies hoping to one day suck up just this sort of treasure due to someone's error or incompetent criminal plot?
3. did not explicitly copy, email, or allow via automated "cloud" synchronization the copying of the data onto various internet accessible servers?
That shit could be on 1000 hard drives by now scattered across the globe.
So was this worth it, just to have the satisfaction of putting someone in prison for espionage? What is the point? To put people in prison for espionage while letting the actual golden goose get lost in the shuffle, or to protect the fucking information!?!?!?
If you don't care about the moral dimension that's Ok, because it's irrelevant to this discussion. The fact is that the FBI agents instigated a crime which resulted in the actual uncontrollable release of classified information. But if they had only revoked Awwad's clearance and fired his ass, that would have never happened.
So who is it that endangered national security, and in fact actually compromised it? The FBI agents!
1. According to the article, the Awwad idiot actually went through with delivering classified info at the 2nd "meeting." That means he successfully stole classified from the secure facility in which it was kept.
Now, just because he sold N files to the agents, doesn't mean he only removed N files from the secure facility. Furthermore, he delivered them to agents at a hotel. Which means "out there" in the wild! So before he was arrested he could have actually had >N files copied onto an indeterminate number of his personal net connected computing gadgets, where the info could have wound up stolen by real enemies by malware bots looking for just this sort of thing, or perhaps he sent backup copies to some place where we will never know but someone else does.
In other words, the FBI agents instigated an ACTUAL breach of classified info into the wild, which is a REAL threat to national security. The info could very well already be in the hands of the Russia, China, etc.
It is the FBI fuckers who should be sent up the river!
It is the purpose of counterintelligence to protect ACTUAL national security above all else, which means not allowing classified out into the wild. They could have simply revoked Awwad's security clearance and fired him when they found him willing to commit an act of espionage, but before he actually went through with it. This would have actually protected national security, by preventing the disclosure of classified which is the whole point.
Instead they risked and caused an uncontrollable leak of classified, just to bag some idiot so he'd go to prison and the agents would get good performance reviews. These people are unethical sociopaths. It is immoral to not seek to PREVENT someone from committing a crime if you know they are willing and considering it. A sting like this should be a felony. Not to mention that now each one of us is going to have to pay a share of our life's work just to imprison the Awwad dimwit for a very long time.
2. There is something very wrong with the Navy's handling of classified, if Awwad was able to get it out at all.
In my experience, fortunately not with actual classified which I want nothing to do with since I have ADHD-like forgetfullness and work "outside the fence", but I've been trained about its handling at a national lab, it would be or should have been exceedingly difficult to steal classified in the first place.
Awwad should have never been alone with classified. It should have been on computers which, if they are networked at all, are connected to only a fully air-gapped restricted network. Even the fucking fibers can't be within like 6 feet of those from another network! The USB and other ports should be sealed off with epoxy. Swapping of classified containing hard drives to/from vault and workstation is done under direct supervision by some classified accountant. It might even be that the workers must be at least in a team of 2 or more, I'm not certain though. Workstations which process classified live in a "vault-like room." Stealing this stuff is not easy! Unless their security is very broken, it should be nearly impossible without getting caught.
Look at it this way: If the guy was stupid enough to try to sell the info yet smart enough to actually succeed at stealing some, then the Navy's security is a joke. How many have stolen information that didn't get caught?
Allowing classified to get out of it's secure facility was a collosal fuckup!
If this type of sting, resulting in the actual removal of classified from secure facilities is common practice, then the people guarding our nation are at a minimum incompetent, and at worst they are the actual traitors for being willing to risk causing actual harm to national security for the sake of their personal careers.
There is little doubt that the enemy we should truly fear is within.
No it's not more frightening, because the vast majority of Chinese who become US citizens integrate very well into our culture, whereas, I'll put it this way, a significant proportion of people from certain other cultures don't.
The smart thing to do is just not give security clearances to non-US born citizens unless there is a very compelling reason, such as, the person is a leading, world-class scientific/engineering mind in a certain field, coupled with very strong background evidence that the person can be trusted.
Actually it's even worse when the stupid agents are now partly responsible for having someone take classified out of a secure facility, where it could have easily been copied onto the guys various net connected computing gadgets which stand a good chance of being compromised themselves.
So the moron agents risked having that info get actually into the hands of the enemy! And at this point, there is no way to know for sure that it hasn't been captured by some foreign malware on that guys computers. This is seriously screwed up.
I'd have those agents fired, at a minimum. What they did should be a felony.
If they knew the guy was willing to sell out, they should simply have revoked his clearance, fired his ass, and ACTUALLY protected national security. Instead they compromised national security in order to bag someone and put them in the joint, hoping to get some sort of career advancement. And these are the sort of pieces of shit we have running the show, folks!
No, it depends on the amount of explosive charge. Wouldn't you expect that the ships are designed with some sort of compatmentalization so that they can take a bit of abuse before taking on enough water to sink? A bit of research that I'm not motivated to do would probably confirm this...
He did do it though. So even though I'm opposed to having the.gov motivate people to do what would become a crime, the guy did it. It's Pandora's box. It should have never been opened in the first place.
But as a result of the actions of counterintel agents, they motivated some jerk to take actual classified out of the secure machines and vaults where it resides, and bring it out into the wild.
Who knows where else the guy copied it to before trying to sell it to these fuckups? A Windows PC? Then we might as well consider it to be in the hands of the Russians by now.
The counterintel people to some degree CAUSED a serious security breach. Above all else, such as the fun of seeing some bastard in cuffs, it is their job to prevent this from ever happening. They should be shitcanned at a minimum.
If the guy hadn't been approached, he wouldn't have done it.
If the guy had been approached by actual foreign intelligence agents, he may have sold out, or he may have responded differently. Impossible to predict.
If the counterintel folks had an inkling that he might be vulnerable to selling out, then why the fuck didn't they simply REVOKE HIS SECURITY CLEARANCE!?!?!
Instead they deliberately sought to push someone over a line that would be criminal so that they could get someone put in prison, and collect big bonuses.
This is immoral, and should be a felony. There is no basis to conclude that if the guy was simply removed from access to classified, that he would still have presented a threat to national security. Therefore by revoking his clearance, the threat to national security would have been eliminated. Unless the guy had *already* taken the classified, in which case I have no argument, that is a crime. But it appears to be the case that he hadn't removed the classified until after getting the bid, so...
The question we need to start asking ourselves is what is morally right to do here? Choose the option that is most punishing? Or choose the option that simply removes the alleged threat to national security?
I think that the answer is that if the following conditions are true or highly likely to be satisfied where security clearances are involved: 1. Someone is considering or likely to commit a crime when confronted with additional pressure (ie., worsening financial troubles, etc.) and/or opportunity (someone walks up and offers a bag of cash for information that would be a crime to hand over), but 2. has not yet committed the crime, then they should simply have their clearance revoked and be fired. After all, it is the existance of circumstances that would lead counterintel to believe that someone is untrustworthy that is one of the main basis for denying clearances in the first place.
In my dictatorship it would be a crime to push someone over the edge. Period!
In this particular situation, the counterintel people are incompetent as well and at a minimum should be fired because they pushed someone over a line causing them to remove classified from the secured systems where they reside, and carry them (one way or another) into the wild!!!
So the fucking counterintel are the goddamn threat to national security!
Because once that guy managed to sneak it out, it could have gone anywhere besides the fake customers. He could have put it on his iPhone, or some other compromized platform, causing that info to now be in the hands of Russian mafia. This was a serious security breach egged on by counterintel who utterly failed to accomplish their misson which is to ensure that this shit never makes it out the fucking door in the first place.
It also indicates something is seriously wrong with the Navy's handling of classified, because where I work, it would be extremely difficult to do something like this since among other barriers, all classified computing has no internet connectivity, at least two people must work in a vault together, and you can't stick a thumb drive into the classified computers (guessing here, based on training courses, since I am fortunate enough to not have to work with classified).
To take the opposing position means that you think it would be a good idea for the government to do this: Find all the people likely to sell classified information if given the chance, and give them jobs with access to classified so that you can then entrap them and put them in prison, while leaking classified all over the fucking net in the process.
Well lets just take this to its logical conclusion why don't we: You agree then that the government should target all citizens with schemes to get each and every one of us to finally crack and do something criminal. You agree that you would like to have all sorts of criminal proposals put to you by strangers who walk up to you eve
And you don't see the possible connection between that and all the talk and desperate concern about why there aren't "enough" female programmers?
What do you think any group is going to do when threatened with the possibility that outsiders are going to be forcably admitted to their club?
And don't tell me that there's no threat of force involved either, because all of this is ultimately political.
I suspect that if we quit trying to engineer society before we even have a shred of a working predicting model for it, that suddenly there will be more female programmers and girl and boy programmer palships forming all over gaming and other hacker groups.
What the fuck does cognitive ability have to do with interests?
It doesn't matter if you are a retard or a genius. If you've got a dick, you'll want to stick it in a pussy. And vice-versa.
This "interest" is purely biologically determined. In fact, nobody has any say in it whatsoever.
I love it when people say: "people are rational."
Next time I'll ask them: "well then, why do you have sex?"
If they are stupid enough to answer with some logical reasons, I'll have no choice but to conclude that I'm dealing with a person who is constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves.
Slashdot Mirror
Your confusing goal with marketing strategy.
The goal is to generally expand the state, employ prison guard union members and other minions of the criminal justice system, advance the careers of police and prosecutors, and pimp a quasi-slave labor force.
The populace never disapproves because they love to see people get sent away, as long as it isn't them. That's the marketing strategy, though if the people thought about it in economic terms they'd be pissed.
You're missing the point, which is to crucify people at the expense of national security.
This just might be brilliant! Why did you have to post as AC? Too lazy to start an account?
Troll my fucking ass. If you think I'm defending Awwad, I'm not and you're missing the point:
ACTUAL harm to national security was done by the FBI agents instigating Awwad into stealing classified information and bringing it out into the unsecured "wild." Preventing this breach is the #1 purpose of counterintelligence. Busting people who steal classified is #2, because if it gets to that point, the harm to national security has already been occurred because:
NOW IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO BE CERTAIN OF THE WHEREABOUTS OF AN INDETERMINATE AMOUNT OF CLASSIFIED INFORMATION!
After the Awwad creep gave them a 1TB hard drive on Oct. 23, he was STILL FREE FOR 35 MORE DAYS running amok in a facility with ineptly secured classified (or he would not have been able to steal it--it's supposed to be nearly fucking IMPOSSIBLE!), potentially stealing who knows how much additional classified information besides the photos of some printed drawing that they think they saw him photographing.
So can anyone be sure that he:
1. put everything that he stole prior to the Oct. 23 drop into the hole and that was the only copy?
2. did not copy the classified files onto or through personal computing devices with internet connectivity and which have a significant likelihood of being compromised, potentially by the malware of real enemies hoping to one day suck up just this sort of treasure due to someone's error or incompetent criminal plot?
3. did not explicitly copy, email, or allow via automated "cloud" synchronization the copying of the data onto various internet accessible servers?
That shit could be on 1000 hard drives by now scattered across the globe.
So was this worth it, just to have the satisfaction of putting someone in prison for espionage? What is the point? To put people in prison for espionage while letting the actual golden goose get lost in the shuffle, or to protect the fucking information!?!?!?
If you don't care about the moral dimension that's Ok, because it's irrelevant to this discussion. The fact is that the FBI agents instigated a crime which resulted in the actual uncontrollable release of classified information. But if they had only revoked Awwad's clearance and fired his ass, that would have never happened.
So who is it that endangered national security, and in fact actually compromised it? The FBI agents!
Since I haven't seen anyone point this out:
1. According to the article, the Awwad idiot actually went through with delivering classified info at the 2nd "meeting." That means he successfully stole classified from the secure facility in which it was kept.
Now, just because he sold N files to the agents, doesn't mean he only removed N files from the secure facility. Furthermore, he delivered them to agents at a hotel. Which means "out there" in the wild! So before he was arrested he could have actually had >N files copied onto an indeterminate number of his personal net connected computing gadgets, where the info could have wound up stolen by real enemies by malware bots looking for just this sort of thing, or perhaps he sent backup copies to some place where we will never know but someone else does.
In other words, the FBI agents instigated an ACTUAL breach of classified info into the wild, which is a REAL threat to national security. The info could very well already be in the hands of the Russia, China, etc.
It is the FBI fuckers who should be sent up the river!
It is the purpose of counterintelligence to protect ACTUAL national security above all else, which means not allowing classified out into the wild. They could have simply revoked Awwad's security clearance and fired him when they found him willing to commit an act of espionage, but before he actually went through with it. This would have actually protected national security, by preventing the disclosure of classified which is the whole point.
Instead they risked and caused an uncontrollable leak of classified, just to bag some idiot so he'd go to prison and the agents would get good performance reviews. These people are unethical sociopaths. It is immoral to not seek to PREVENT someone from committing a crime if you know they are willing and considering it. A sting like this should be a felony. Not to mention that now each one of us is going to have to pay a share of our life's work just to imprison the Awwad dimwit for a very long time.
2. There is something very wrong with the Navy's handling of classified, if Awwad was able to get it out at all.
In my experience, fortunately not with actual classified which I want nothing to do with since I have ADHD-like forgetfullness and work "outside the fence", but I've been trained about its handling at a national lab, it would be or should have been exceedingly difficult to steal classified in the first place.
Awwad should have never been alone with classified. It should have been on computers which, if they are networked at all, are connected to only a fully air-gapped restricted network. Even the fucking fibers can't be within like 6 feet of those from another network! The USB and other ports should be sealed off with epoxy. Swapping of classified containing hard drives to/from vault and workstation is done under direct supervision by some classified accountant. It might even be that the workers must be at least in a team of 2 or more, I'm not certain though. Workstations which process classified live in a "vault-like room." Stealing this stuff is not easy! Unless their security is very broken, it should be nearly impossible without getting caught.
Look at it this way: If the guy was stupid enough to try to sell the info yet smart enough to actually succeed at stealing some, then the Navy's security is a joke. How many have stolen information that didn't get caught?
Allowing classified to get out of it's secure facility was a collosal fuckup!
If this type of sting, resulting in the actual removal of classified from secure facilities is common practice, then the people guarding our nation are at a minimum incompetent, and at worst they are the actual traitors for being willing to risk causing actual harm to national security for the sake of their personal careers.
There is little doubt that the enemy we should truly fear is within.
No it's not more frightening, because the vast majority of Chinese who become US citizens integrate very well into our culture, whereas, I'll put it this way, a significant proportion of people from certain other cultures don't.
The smart thing to do is just not give security clearances to non-US born citizens unless there is a very compelling reason, such as, the person is a leading, world-class scientific/engineering mind in a certain field, coupled with very strong background evidence that the person can be trusted.
Actually it's even worse when the stupid agents are now partly responsible for having someone take classified out of a secure facility, where it could have easily been copied onto the guys various net connected computing gadgets which stand a good chance of being compromised themselves.
So the moron agents risked having that info get actually into the hands of the enemy! And at this point, there is no way to know for sure that it hasn't been captured by some foreign malware on that guys computers. This is seriously screwed up.
I'd have those agents fired, at a minimum. What they did should be a felony.
If they knew the guy was willing to sell out, they should simply have revoked his clearance, fired his ass, and ACTUALLY protected national security. Instead they compromised national security in order to bag someone and put them in the joint, hoping to get some sort of career advancement. And these are the sort of pieces of shit we have running the show, folks!
No, it depends on the amount of explosive charge. Wouldn't you expect that the ships are designed with some sort of compatmentalization so that they can take a bit of abuse before taking on enough water to sink? A bit of research that I'm not motivated to do would probably confirm this...
He did do it though. So even though I'm opposed to having the .gov motivate people to do what would become a crime, the guy did it. It's Pandora's box. It should have never been opened in the first place.
But as a result of the actions of counterintel agents, they motivated some jerk to take actual classified out of the secure machines and vaults where it resides, and bring it out into the wild.
Who knows where else the guy copied it to before trying to sell it to these fuckups? A Windows PC? Then we might as well consider it to be in the hands of the Russians by now.
The counterintel people to some degree CAUSED a serious security breach. Above all else, such as the fun of seeing some bastard in cuffs, it is their job to prevent this from ever happening. They should be shitcanned at a minimum.
Now let's try using our brains:
If the guy hadn't been approached, he wouldn't have done it.
If the guy had been approached by actual foreign intelligence agents, he may have sold out, or he may have responded differently. Impossible to predict.
If the counterintel folks had an inkling that he might be vulnerable to selling out, then why the fuck didn't they simply REVOKE HIS SECURITY CLEARANCE!?!?!
Instead they deliberately sought to push someone over a line that would be criminal so that they could get someone put in prison, and collect big bonuses.
This is immoral, and should be a felony. There is no basis to conclude that if the guy was simply removed from access to classified, that he would still have presented a threat to national security. Therefore by revoking his clearance, the threat to national security would have been eliminated. Unless the guy had *already* taken the classified, in which case I have no argument, that is a crime. But it appears to be the case that he hadn't removed the classified until after getting the bid, so...
The question we need to start asking ourselves is what is morally right to do here? Choose the option that is most punishing? Or choose the option that simply removes the alleged threat to national security?
I think that the answer is that if the following conditions are true or highly likely to be satisfied where security clearances are involved: 1. Someone is considering or likely to commit a crime when confronted with additional pressure (ie., worsening financial troubles, etc.) and/or opportunity (someone walks up and offers a bag of cash for information that would be a crime to hand over), but 2. has not yet committed the crime, then they should simply have their clearance revoked and be fired. After all, it is the existance of circumstances that would lead counterintel to believe that someone is untrustworthy that is one of the main basis for denying clearances in the first place.
In my dictatorship it would be a crime to push someone over the edge. Period!
In this particular situation, the counterintel people are incompetent as well and at a minimum should be fired because they pushed someone over a line causing them to remove classified from the secured systems where they reside, and carry them (one way or another) into the wild!!!
So the fucking counterintel are the goddamn threat to national security!
Because once that guy managed to sneak it out, it could have gone anywhere besides the fake customers. He could have put it on his iPhone, or some other compromized platform, causing that info to now be in the hands of Russian mafia. This was a serious security breach egged on by counterintel who utterly failed to accomplish their misson which is to ensure that this shit never makes it out the fucking door in the first place.
It also indicates something is seriously wrong with the Navy's handling of classified, because where I work, it would be extremely difficult to do something like this since among other barriers, all classified computing has no internet connectivity, at least two people must work in a vault together, and you can't stick a thumb drive into the classified computers (guessing here, based on training courses, since I am fortunate enough to not have to work with classified).
To take the opposing position means that you think it would be a good idea for the government to do this: Find all the people likely to sell classified information if given the chance, and give them jobs with access to classified so that you can then entrap them and put them in prison, while leaking classified all over the fucking net in the process.
Well lets just take this to its logical conclusion why don't we: You agree then that the government should target all citizens with schemes to get each and every one of us to finally crack and do something criminal. You agree that you would like to have all sorts of criminal proposals put to you by strangers who walk up to you eve
"Theres a heck of a lot of speculation here by people who I suspect are speaking way beyond their expertise."
Isn't that the point?
Glad to hear they improved. Depression confronts us with the most difficult questions about life.
I wonder if they have the good ones made by Panasonic?
Walking out with hard drives in your pocket is stealing, not a hacking.
That we need GOVERNMENT action!
This is the best comment. Uh, I mean that one ^
Heh heh, my 9 year old loves her Linux computer, and thinks it's easier to use than my Windows computers.
And you don't see the possible connection between that and all the talk and desperate concern about why there aren't "enough" female programmers?
What do you think any group is going to do when threatened with the possibility that outsiders are going to be forcably admitted to their club?
And don't tell me that there's no threat of force involved either, because all of this is ultimately political.
I suspect that if we quit trying to engineer society before we even have a shred of a working predicting model for it, that suddenly there will be more female programmers and girl and boy programmer palships forming all over gaming and other hacker groups.
I'll take the unenlightened over the self-proclaimed enlightened any day.
Heh heh, it's funny when people try to draw conclusions from brain sizes. The action is at the *molecular* level, for pete's sake!
It's even more ridiculus if you can't spell "fucking." Hopefully the ability to spell a thing vs. do a thing are uncorrelated.
So you would agree then that homosexuality is socially conditioned?
Even if visualight can't put up a shred of evidence to support his position, it is still the case that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
What the fuck does cognitive ability have to do with interests?
It doesn't matter if you are a retard or a genius. If you've got a dick, you'll want to stick it in a pussy. And vice-versa.
This "interest" is purely biologically determined. In fact, nobody has any say in it whatsoever.
I love it when people say: "people are rational."
Next time I'll ask them: "well then, why do you have sex?"
If they are stupid enough to answer with some logical reasons, I'll have no choice but to conclude that I'm dealing with a person who is constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves.