Ok, slow down there buckaroo. Let's go through these points one at a time.
And lose that wonderful cross platform ability and userland protection?
X-Windows' cross platform abilities are inhibited by keeping driver code in the X-Server. Having OS specific code only leads to various build trees for each system, some incompatible. As for userland protection, no one is suggesting that X-Windows itself be moved into the kernel. Just the drivers which run in Ring 0 anyway.
Moving the drivers into the kernel is crazy. It might simplify the X server code, but it will be a bitch to maintain for several operating systems.
Nonsense. It's the Operating System's responsibilty to provide driver services. Shunning those services in favor of a hodgepodge of semi-userland drivers is silly. The X Server should float on top of the Operating System's graphical services, not cram a new driver model down its throat.
Not the whole world wants or does want to run Linux.
Preaching to the choir there. But that still doesn't mean that the X-Server shouldn't do its job correctly. It's not supposed to be a hardware manager, that's the OS's responsibility.
The kernel already provides access to them through/dev anyway.
Not quite. Up until recently, the OS only provided raw access to the ports. X was responsible for managing these devices. As time went on (and BSD in particlar pushed back), X was modified to work with system mappings of devices. Unfortunately, X still demands direct control and can often screw up if it doesn't get it, or doesn't understand the device correctly.
Sure, the GFX side uses blitting directly to video ram, but that's what the others do as well. mmap(), memcpy and friends work fast enough from userland anyway.
The GFX side does not blit directly to RAM. X commands are queued up and shunted to the driver as appropriate. This may translate to blits, or it may translate to accelerated graphics commands. There's a major push at the moment to change all X operations over to OpenGL. If this were done, then the X-server would never need to see another blit again. It would simply pass a set of command primitives to the driver, and the video card would do all the work. Quite fast, quite easy, and quite correct.
And don't start about X using sockets to talk to clients, because they have nothing to do with networking
There is nothing wrong with X's networking. That's what it's designed to do. My point only addresses the matter of hardware control which X should not be in the business of. Look at a Sun machine, for example. The card is always in graphics mode, and those modes can be determined on the command line. All the X-Server does is take over the screen and begin drawing. It really doesn't care about the underlying hardware, as it should be.
I understand that you're upset about the old "X is slow" arguments and the like. Unfortunately, you're barking up the wrong tree here. My argument has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with architecture. Should the OS be given back control of the hardware, then it would again be possible to do things like run multiple X-Servers, run video games without X interfering, using graphics mode for the terminal, and other fun and interesting things. All because X would be a client of the OS, not a peer.:-)
When was the last time you saw a can of Burma Shave on the store shelf?
Every product has its day, especially consumer products. Very few consumer products last 50 years or longer. The key to the seeming longevity of many modern consumer products is that corporations have learned to reuse existing brands in new products. That's why you have such large lines such as the "Reese's" product lines, or the complete reinvention of Head and Shoulders.:-)
They'll only make it X12 if and when they break that compatibility, and they won't do that without a good reason.
There's no requirement that an X12 server be completely incompatible with an X11 server. i.e. The X12 could easily accept commands from an X11 stream. While the X11 server would not be able to understand X12, such issues would be slow in cropping up, and X12 should easily be able to replace X11 long before that happens.
The extension architecture works fine AFAICS, is there an actual problem you have with it?
I can't speak for the parent poster, but my primary issue with current X-Windows is not so much the protocol (which could use a good overhaul anyway), and more the current design of X-Servers. Instead of forcing the OS to do its job, current X-Server designs schlep up video card, mouse, joystick, and other hardware control. The reasons for this design aren't entirely clear, but it is obvious that this is a source of many X-Windows issues. Moving these drivers to the OS level would improve reliability and configurability all around.
Don't take my word for it, however. Mr. Packard has a very good writeup on the issue.
My reaction to this was "Huh?" so I went and looked it up. Apparently, Burma Shave was the company that developed the idea of stretching a message across several signs along the road. The idea was that people would tune in to the advertisement because they wanted to know what the punch line of the slogan would be. Apparently the scheme worked quite well, and we now see the concept in popular media such as Road Runner cartoons and the movie Rat Race. (You, Should, Have, Bought, A, Squirrel!);-)
I am afraid you've got Transvirtual, the company, and Kaffe.org, a free software project mixed up. It was Transvirtual that accepted funding from Microsoft, not the Kaffe.org project.
*raises eyebrow*
Kaffe was Transvirtual's baby. It may be relatively independent now, but it certainly wasn't back then. Speaking of which, where did Transvirtual go? Kaffe/Transvirtual sort of disappeared for a while, and by the time Kaffe started making news again, there was no sign of Transvirtual.
Please take some time to read the Java Trap article, and you may find that it's a reasonable, informed opinion about the importance of using Free Software as building bricks for Free Software, rather than introducing hidden dependencies on non-free software.
I have read it, and it's mostly nonsense. I understand Mr. Stallman has his opinions, but I did not appreciate how he stirred the pot with "The Java Trap" or other press during the OOo debacle. As any good politician can tell you, you can quite easily stir things up while still being polite. And this isn't the first time Mr. Stallman has taken it upon himself to incite a flamewar. His hounding and later "I told you so" episode with BitKeeper was less than grown up, not to mention his hounding of the KDE project.
In the past I have had nothing against Mr. Stallman, but for now at least, I'm a bit peeved about his behavior. Not only was the OOo Jihad unnecessary, the complaints floated were non-existent. OOo's "appeasment" was nothing more than what they had already done! It amazes me that OOo's use of Java since the beginning was okay, but as soon as Sun fixed the *real* problems (e.g. dependence on hidden APIs), everyone is all over them! As for "Sun Specific APIs", all I can say is, "They're in the fine manual." If Classpath doesn't have them implemented yet, that is not Sun's fault or the fault of the Java community. You're free to implement the missing functionality.
Withholding key information from the public is not possible for Sun any more, now that the JCP takes care about the specifications.
And who voluntarily create the JCP? Sun has had a great deal of power. While they've occasionally screwed up relationships with developers (e.g. the FreeBSD Java issues), they have never taken direct action against any OSS project. Sun carries their responsibility and expects others to do so as well.
I'd be interested to know what makes you think that Sun's so desperate.
I'm not certain where you get the idea that Sun is desperate. I certainly never said or suggested such a thing. My point was only that Sun has had plenty of opportunities to crush OSS. They have not done so, will not do so, and will continue to foster its growth in the future. Despite all the pain, suffering, and outright bad press they receive at the hands of the OSS community as a whole.
Given that Sun Microsystems is a large part of the "OSS community" (see the "share" marketing campaign going on atm), that you accuse of pissing off Sun, you make it sound as if that they have done a lot of bad things to themselves. Have they, really? I'd find that odd.
Hardly. Sun has attempted to *enter* the OSS community time and time again, but they are consistently rebuffed and have to work on their own. They are even persecuted for their kindness! In general, IBM has done far less, but they get a free ride. Why is that?
Yes, I've seen your analysis. I find it overly critical, but I'm afraid I can do nothing to change that. Sun could probably sue you for hundreds of little infractions that the law may or may provide them with relief for. But they don't, because they are attempting to play nice. Sun may not have the motto, "do no evil", but their actions generally speak to it.
For how bad things can go with Sun and open source projects not paying respect to Sun's licenses, see Lutris' Enhydra (open source application server from a few years ago, killed by its authors because of alleged SCSL violations),
As I remember the situation, Sun never threatened legal action. Rather, Enhydra felt that they needed the Java Logo, and was going through the long process of obtaining the logo. Nor did that kill Enhydra. After the release of J2EE, lack of interest in their existing platform managed that. (Anyone remember ExoOffice?)
JBoss (open source application server, had to fork over a certain, large amount of dollars to reach license peace with Sun)
Sun made the TCK available to OSS projects, but JBoss is a commercial entity. In any case, things were always complicated there. (Never did get the full story behind why Rickard left.)
On a side note, I plan to work with Sun's legal to see if their standard tainting clause could not be clarified, eventually, but don't count on it: I don't write Sun's licenses, Sun does.
That's good news.:-)
Regarding missing documentation, well here is one for you: javax.swing.text.html.HTMLEditorKit: can you tell which HTML 4.0 tags are supported and which are not supported, precisely, from the API specification alone?:)
No, but I would take one of two tacks:
1. Just support common tags and hope you're compatible enough. (This isn't as bad of an option as it may seem at first. Even if you get a few details wrong, bug reports will help you sort things out later.)
2. Test the existing Java binaries for what they are and are not compatible for.
The leader of the Free Software Foundation (under whom GCJ/Classpath is developed) starts an uncalled for flamewar over Java's status.
Sun could easily "punish" projects for stuff like this (through more restrictive licenses, withholding key information from the public, etc.), but they don't. They're nice people, not intending to throw up any barriers. Yet time and again they are painted as an evil entity to be defeated for no reason what-so-ever. Thankfully, cooler heads usually prevail. Unfortunately, these cooler heads are usually not the OSS community or fan base.:-/
Perhaps you have a different definition of 'almost as fast', so I'll just note that all jet airliners in use today travel around or above 600 mph at cruise.
Indeed. But when I say "almost as fast", I'm also including time for security checks, takeoff clearance, landing clearance, docking clearance, and luggage pickup. These sorts of things make airplane trips take much, much longer than they should. In many cases, the entire day has to be blocked out for the trip. As a result, a 13 hour bullet train trip would be comparable to a 6 hour cross-continental plane trip.
Robertson didn't know what he was talking about. He'd seen WINE in action, and assumed that it was close to being a complete replacement for Windows. He then went on to include it with Lindows and promised the world that he'd be Windows compatible. Somewhere along the line he learned the horrible truth (Win32 is an ugly, broken, and complex moving target) and backed off his claims.
Unfortunately, this left Lindows in a bit of a lurch because it was less secure than most Linux distributions, and only had its application repository to carry it. My guess is that the Microsoft vs. Lindows lawsuit was what kept them on the map. Without all the press, it's posslble they would have languished into obscurity. Since then, the renamed Linspire has been slowly building back up to Windows compatibility.
That was the original concept. In actual practice, Amtrak ended up owning the Northwest Corridor and several other key rails that they then rent out to freight services.
I did misspeak, though. My intention was to say that Amtrak combined existing rail lines (e.g. passenger services) under a single company. The President fully expected Amtrak to disappear within a few years. Unfortunately, it has hung on for dear life, and somehow manages to continue service to this day.
Amtrak has been a money-losing operation since day #1. For some reason, the American politicians just cannot determine why Amtrak remains unprofitable. How can anyone be so ignorant that he cannot see the reason? No one wants to ride a train for 2 or 3 days when you can take an airplane for equivalent cost to the same destination in less than a day.
Amtrak was the governments attempt to rescue the failing rail industry from certain death. All that was done was that existing rails were combined under one company, and tracks were reallocated for *both* passenger and freight routes. Almost no new tracks have gone down since Amtrak was created.
Unfortunately, neither the government or the US population takes trains seriously. As far as we're concerned, our air travel and highway systems are far better suited to freight and passenger service. Now that trains are beginning to reach speeds of over 200 mph, a bullet train from NY to CA could be almost as fast as a plane. But then you have political problems. Who's going to fund the infrastructure? A Federal program? Which states would be assigned that program? How could it be ensured that all those states manage to produce the same level of workmanship on the raised tracks and tunnels? How would such a proposal impact existing lands?
There are a lot of complex questions that are difficult to answer *because* of the US's "collection of countries" design. As the technology improves in other countries you may see some answers that might make a bullet train possible. My only hope is that it is not lumped under the generally mismanaged Amtrak program.
The fact that ability to work with Java is based on how politically friendly your organization is to Sun seems, to me, to be the primary problem with the Java licensing situation.
That's just a load of nonsense. If you want someone to offer help, it is generally wise not to piss them off. From day one, the OSS community has badgered and berated Sun. Sun has attempted to appease them, but certainly isn't going to go out of their way for someone who's effectively declared themselves an enemy.
So, Mr. AC. I think you're a loser and a jackass, you never say anything insightful, you're worthless, and you shouldn't even exist. Could I get you to lend me 50 bucks?
Get the point?
Keep in mind that Sun has been *really* nice to OSS projects in spite of themselves. AFAIK, they have never complained about the Kaffe or GCJ projects, never attempted to put barriers in the way, and tried to offer up as much information as possible. Look at the new JRL! It explicitly allows you to remember and reimplement anything you learn (one of the greatest criticisms of the previous license). Sun never intended to sue an OSS project because of things they learned from SCSL code, and have since clarified their position. That helps close the supposed holes in documentation that Kaffe and GCJ claim to exist. (Whatever they are, I certainly haven't seen them.)
As a developer, I don't give a shit whose bridges with Sun are and aren't burned. [...] Posted as anonymous coward because as a developer I have a business relationship with Sun
Oh the hypocrisy. Are you sure you aren't just trolling?
*sigh* Sun is already as open as they're going to go with Java by releasing it under the Java Research License. Now Sun has never complained about or hawked Open Source JVMs, but neither have they been too keen on helping out projects who bite their hands. As a result, the project to watch is the Apache Harmony Project. Given that Apache maintains a close relationship with Sun, hasn't burned their bridges, and has a good track record for completing very complex software, there's a good chance that the Apache JVM will quickly exceed Kaffe and GCJ.
THe primary difference is that the CEV program is based on today's technology. The previous shuttle replacement plans (NASP, X-33, Delta Clipper, etc.) were all experimental craft that needed several unproven, expensive, and risky key technologies developed before they could be built. This was exasperated by the fact that those craft were being built on relatively low budgets. In the case of the X-33, nearly every component of the craft was one of those undeveloped technologies with no room for error or redesign.
In the case of the CEV, life is simple. Spiral One will only require that we build a technology similar to what was created in the 1960s. i.e. A capsule. Reusability isn't even specified, but most competitors have taken that route because they can. (The shuttle technologies are not completely going to waste here.)
Since the capsule will be designed for only carrying (relatively light) humans as opposed to the 28 tonnes of cargo + 104 tonnes of spacecraft the shuttle carried around, the engines will be nothing more than a commercial booster. In the case of the CEV, the booster will only need to manage a mere 20 tonnes to LEO. Which means that the CEV can pull a Delta IV or Atlas V off the shelf for launch operations. (The CEV program does have bugetting for a new rocket, but the point is that any rocket can be used.)
In short, the CEV is completely the correct idea. Use technology we have today to develop a targetted launch vehicle for humans, and worry about developing other vehicles through regular development programs. For cargo, just use a cargo specific vehicle. The very definition of KISS.:-)
As I said, I live near the McCormick Center. Trust me, Michigan/King Drive can be hell on wheels when Chicago fills up. On foot is probably the best method of getting around, but it doesn't help much if you're trying to get from 30th all the way up to Millennium Park.:-/
I got sick after I came back from the taste back in 2002.
I went there last year and I really didn't have any problems. It was busy like you wouldn't believe (elbow to elbow), but everything was served fresh, hot, clean, and at a maximum rip-off ratio. ($5 bucks a "taste"!?! Yikes!) In the last year, I've also been to a few Chicago ethnic events at the Daley center (mmm... Mid-Eastern food), and the food at those events was usually quite good as well.
My guess is that Chicago businesses have gotten fairly good at handling the outdoors serving. Not that I'm trying to change your mind. One case of food poisoning can easily frighten one away from a place for years.:-/
Err... yeah, the ALA as well. In other words, Chicago is friggin' busy this weekend. Getting anywhere downtown is probably a nightmare on wheels.
On the bright side, at least the city has the infrastructure to absorb it. You should see how San Francisco shuts down every time the JavaOne Expo rolls into town! I would really love to strangle the guy who thought that taking the conference to the Sony Metronome in SF was a good idea.
Does anyone know if Google plans to open source Google File System?
Considering the competitive advantage it gives them? Not bloody likely. Besides, it's very much a system that's keyed to Google's usage patterns. Most regular businesses and users would see little to no benefit in Google's system. If you really think it's useful for your line of business, then read the paper (html) and implement a version more specific to your needs. Good luck!
Except that it couldn't be at a worse time. Not only is NextFest happening, but you've also got the Tastes of Chicago, and Gay Pride March going on at the same time. Considering that I *live* near the McCormick Center, I'm darn glad I got out for the weekend. It's got to be absolutely nuts over there.
FYI, Entourage (part of Office v.X) supports Exchange integration. In fact, Entourage is about the only real killer app in Office v.X when faced off with NeoOffice/J. Especially for environments where Exchange is an absolute must-have.
Entourage would actually be one of the best email clients out there if it didn't feel so darn quirky. It constantly does weird stuff, like get the time wrong, pop up dismissed meeting notices, hang while downloading, etc. Maybe it's improved since the last time I tried it, but its quirks prevented it from capturing the lions share of the Mac Email Client market before Apple finally got their act together on Mail.app.
What corporate offices *really* need, is a port of Evolution + Exchange Connector to the Mac. Now that would be cool.
FYI, I think the moderators marked you "flamebait" because you weren't paying attention. OOo for Mac require X11, looks like crap, acts like crap, and can't properly size a window to save its life. This spurred the invention of NeoOffice/J, which is OpenOffice, but using Java to fill in a few holes (such as the GUI). It does not require X11, it's reasonably snappy, holds up quite well, and has most (all?) of the features of the latest 1.x release of OpenOffice.
though excel really is the best spreadsheet software that I have yet seen on any platform.
That is the oddest thing to saY. IMHO, most spreadsheets are alike and interoperate quite well. It's the word processing documents that are the killer.
Now, why exactly has apple not came out with their version of office yet
Apple distributes (or at least used to distribute) AppleWorks with every copy of OS X. However, it's not really that great of an Office Suite, so most users tend to forget it exists. I don't even remember if I still have my copy on disk anymore. It's certainly not still on the Dock.
Slashdot Mirror
/Me offers CoolVibe a glass of ice water
/dev anyway.
:-)
Ok, slow down there buckaroo. Let's go through these points one at a time.
And lose that wonderful cross platform ability and userland protection?
X-Windows' cross platform abilities are inhibited by keeping driver code in the X-Server. Having OS specific code only leads to various build trees for each system, some incompatible. As for userland protection, no one is suggesting that X-Windows itself be moved into the kernel. Just the drivers which run in Ring 0 anyway.
Moving the drivers into the kernel is crazy. It might simplify the X server code, but it will be a bitch to maintain for several operating systems.
Nonsense. It's the Operating System's responsibilty to provide driver services. Shunning those services in favor of a hodgepodge of semi-userland drivers is silly. The X Server should float on top of the Operating System's graphical services, not cram a new driver model down its throat.
Not the whole world wants or does want to run Linux.
Preaching to the choir there. But that still doesn't mean that the X-Server shouldn't do its job correctly. It's not supposed to be a hardware manager, that's the OS's responsibility.
The kernel already provides access to them through
Not quite. Up until recently, the OS only provided raw access to the ports. X was responsible for managing these devices. As time went on (and BSD in particlar pushed back), X was modified to work with system mappings of devices. Unfortunately, X still demands direct control and can often screw up if it doesn't get it, or doesn't understand the device correctly.
Sure, the GFX side uses blitting directly to video ram, but that's what the others do as well. mmap(), memcpy and friends work fast enough from userland anyway.
The GFX side does not blit directly to RAM. X commands are queued up and shunted to the driver as appropriate. This may translate to blits, or it may translate to accelerated graphics commands. There's a major push at the moment to change all X operations over to OpenGL. If this were done, then the X-server would never need to see another blit again. It would simply pass a set of command primitives to the driver, and the video card would do all the work. Quite fast, quite easy, and quite correct.
And don't start about X using sockets to talk to clients, because they have nothing to do with networking
There is nothing wrong with X's networking. That's what it's designed to do. My point only addresses the matter of hardware control which X should not be in the business of. Look at a Sun machine, for example. The card is always in graphics mode, and those modes can be determined on the command line. All the X-Server does is take over the screen and begin drawing. It really doesn't care about the underlying hardware, as it should be.
I understand that you're upset about the old "X is slow" arguments and the like. Unfortunately, you're barking up the wrong tree here. My argument has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with architecture. Should the OS be given back control of the hardware, then it would again be possible to do things like run multiple X-Servers, run video games without X interfering, using graphics mode for the terminal, and other fun and interesting things. All because X would be a client of the OS, not a peer.
When was the last time you saw a can of Burma Shave on the store shelf?
:-)
Every product has its day, especially consumer products. Very few consumer products last 50 years or longer. The key to the seeming longevity of many modern consumer products is that corporations have learned to reuse existing brands in new products. That's why you have such large lines such as the "Reese's" product lines, or the complete reinvention of Head and Shoulders.
They'll only make it X12 if and when they break that compatibility, and they won't do that without a good reason.
There's no requirement that an X12 server be completely incompatible with an X11 server. i.e. The X12 could easily accept commands from an X11 stream. While the X11 server would not be able to understand X12, such issues would be slow in cropping up, and X12 should easily be able to replace X11 long before that happens.
The extension architecture works fine AFAICS, is there an actual problem you have with it?
I can't speak for the parent poster, but my primary issue with current X-Windows is not so much the protocol (which could use a good overhaul anyway), and more the current design of X-Servers. Instead of forcing the OS to do its job, current X-Server designs schlep up video card, mouse, joystick, and other hardware control. The reasons for this design aren't entirely clear, but it is obvious that this is a source of many X-Windows issues. Moving these drivers to the OS level would improve reliability and configurability all around.
Don't take my word for it, however. Mr. Packard has a very good writeup on the issue.
My reaction to this was "Huh?" so I went and looked it up. Apparently, Burma Shave was the company that developed the idea of stretching a message across several signs along the road. The idea was that people would tune in to the advertisement because they wanted to know what the punch line of the slogan would be. Apparently the scheme worked quite well, and we now see the concept in popular media such as Road Runner cartoons and the movie Rat Race. (You, Should, Have, Bought, A, Squirrel!) ;-)
I am afraid you've got Transvirtual, the company, and Kaffe.org, a free software project mixed up. It was Transvirtual that accepted funding from Microsoft, not the Kaffe.org project.
*raises eyebrow*
Kaffe was Transvirtual's baby. It may be relatively independent now, but it certainly wasn't back then. Speaking of which, where did Transvirtual go? Kaffe/Transvirtual sort of disappeared for a while, and by the time Kaffe started making news again, there was no sign of Transvirtual.
Please take some time to read the Java Trap article, and you may find that it's a reasonable, informed opinion about the importance of using Free Software as building bricks for Free Software, rather than introducing hidden dependencies on non-free software.
I have read it, and it's mostly nonsense. I understand Mr. Stallman has his opinions, but I did not appreciate how he stirred the pot with "The Java Trap" or other press during the OOo debacle. As any good politician can tell you, you can quite easily stir things up while still being polite. And this isn't the first time Mr. Stallman has taken it upon himself to incite a flamewar. His hounding and later "I told you so" episode with BitKeeper was less than grown up, not to mention his hounding of the KDE project.
In the past I have had nothing against Mr. Stallman, but for now at least, I'm a bit peeved about his behavior. Not only was the OOo Jihad unnecessary, the complaints floated were non-existent. OOo's "appeasment" was nothing more than what they had already done! It amazes me that OOo's use of Java since the beginning was okay, but as soon as Sun fixed the *real* problems (e.g. dependence on hidden APIs), everyone is all over them! As for "Sun Specific APIs", all I can say is, "They're in the fine manual." If Classpath doesn't have them implemented yet, that is not Sun's fault or the fault of the Java community. You're free to implement the missing functionality.
Withholding key information from the public is not possible for Sun any more, now that the JCP takes care about the specifications.
And who voluntarily create the JCP? Sun has had a great deal of power. While they've occasionally screwed up relationships with developers (e.g. the FreeBSD Java issues), they have never taken direct action against any OSS project. Sun carries their responsibility and expects others to do so as well.
I'd be interested to know what makes you think that Sun's so desperate.
I'm not certain where you get the idea that Sun is desperate. I certainly never said or suggested such a thing. My point was only that Sun has had plenty of opportunities to crush OSS. They have not done so, will not do so, and will continue to foster its growth in the future. Despite all the pain, suffering, and outright bad press they receive at the hands of the OSS community as a whole.
Given that Sun Microsystems is a large part of the "OSS community" (see the "share" marketing campaign going on atm), that you accuse of pissing off Sun, you make it sound as if that they have done a lot of bad things to themselves. Have they, really? I'd find that odd.
0 9825.html for details.
:-)
:)
Hardly. Sun has attempted to *enter* the OSS community time and time again, but they are consistently rebuffed and have to work on their own. They are even persecuted for their kindness! In general, IBM has done far less, but they get a free ride. Why is that?
Yes, I've looked at the new JRL, and unfortunately it's not as simple as the FAQs say. See http://www.mail-archive.com/classpath@gnu.org/msg
Yes, I've seen your analysis. I find it overly critical, but I'm afraid I can do nothing to change that. Sun could probably sue you for hundreds of little infractions that the law may or may provide them with relief for. But they don't, because they are attempting to play nice. Sun may not have the motto, "do no evil", but their actions generally speak to it.
For how bad things can go with Sun and open source projects not paying respect to Sun's licenses, see Lutris' Enhydra (open source application server from a few years ago, killed by its authors because of alleged SCSL violations),
As I remember the situation, Sun never threatened legal action. Rather, Enhydra felt that they needed the Java Logo, and was going through the long process of obtaining the logo. Nor did that kill Enhydra. After the release of J2EE, lack of interest in their existing platform managed that. (Anyone remember ExoOffice?)
JBoss (open source application server, had to fork over a certain, large amount of dollars to reach license peace with Sun)
Sun made the TCK available to OSS projects, but JBoss is a commercial entity. In any case, things were always complicated there. (Never did get the full story behind why Rickard left.)
On a side note, I plan to work with Sun's legal to see if their standard tainting clause could not be clarified, eventually, but don't count on it: I don't write Sun's licenses, Sun does.
That's good news.
Regarding missing documentation, well here is one for you: javax.swing.text.html.HTMLEditorKit: can you tell which HTML 4.0 tags are supported and which are not supported, precisely, from the API specification alone?
No, but I would take one of two tacks:
1. Just support common tags and hope you're compatible enough. (This isn't as bad of an option as it may seem at first. Even if you get a few details wrong, bug reports will help you sort things out later.)
2. Test the existing Java binaries for what they are and are not compatible for.
Hi Dalibor,
:-/
I am not aware of Kaffe, or gcj, or GNU Classpath biting Sun hands
Kaffe accepts donations from Microsoft to implement Microsoft's contested extensions.
The leader of the Free Software Foundation (under whom GCJ/Classpath is developed) starts an uncalled for flamewar over Java's status.
Sun could easily "punish" projects for stuff like this (through more restrictive licenses, withholding key information from the public, etc.), but they don't. They're nice people, not intending to throw up any barriers. Yet time and again they are painted as an evil entity to be defeated for no reason what-so-ever. Thankfully, cooler heads usually prevail. Unfortunately, these cooler heads are usually not the OSS community or fan base.
Perhaps you have a different definition of 'almost as fast', so I'll just note that all jet airliners in use today travel around or above 600 mph at cruise.
Indeed. But when I say "almost as fast", I'm also including time for security checks, takeoff clearance, landing clearance, docking clearance, and luggage pickup. These sorts of things make airplane trips take much, much longer than they should. In many cases, the entire day has to be blocked out for the trip. As a result, a 13 hour bullet train trip would be comparable to a 6 hour cross-continental plane trip.
s/Northwest Corridor/Northeast Corridor/g
I hate it when I do that.
Yes.
Even if it didn't, sol is an excellent replacement.
Robertson didn't know what he was talking about. He'd seen WINE in action, and assumed that it was close to being a complete replacement for Windows. He then went on to include it with Lindows and promised the world that he'd be Windows compatible. Somewhere along the line he learned the horrible truth (Win32 is an ugly, broken, and complex moving target) and backed off his claims.
Unfortunately, this left Lindows in a bit of a lurch because it was less secure than most Linux distributions, and only had its application repository to carry it. My guess is that the Microsoft vs. Lindows lawsuit was what kept them on the map. Without all the press, it's posslble they would have languished into obscurity. Since then, the renamed Linspire has been slowly building back up to Windows compatibility.
Amtrak doesn't own the rails.
That was the original concept. In actual practice, Amtrak ended up owning the Northwest Corridor and several other key rails that they then rent out to freight services.
I did misspeak, though. My intention was to say that Amtrak combined existing rail lines (e.g. passenger services) under a single company. The President fully expected Amtrak to disappear within a few years. Unfortunately, it has hung on for dear life, and somehow manages to continue service to this day.
Amtrak has been a money-losing operation since day #1. For some reason, the American politicians just cannot determine why Amtrak remains unprofitable. How can anyone be so ignorant that he cannot see the reason? No one wants to ride a train for 2 or 3 days when you can take an airplane for equivalent cost to the same destination in less than a day.
Amtrak was the governments attempt to rescue the failing rail industry from certain death. All that was done was that existing rails were combined under one company, and tracks were reallocated for *both* passenger and freight routes. Almost no new tracks have gone down since Amtrak was created.
Unfortunately, neither the government or the US population takes trains seriously. As far as we're concerned, our air travel and highway systems are far better suited to freight and passenger service. Now that trains are beginning to reach speeds of over 200 mph, a bullet train from NY to CA could be almost as fast as a plane. But then you have political problems. Who's going to fund the infrastructure? A Federal program? Which states would be assigned that program? How could it be ensured that all those states manage to produce the same level of workmanship on the raised tracks and tunnels? How would such a proposal impact existing lands?
There are a lot of complex questions that are difficult to answer *because* of the US's "collection of countries" design. As the technology improves in other countries you may see some answers that might make a bullet train possible. My only hope is that it is not lumped under the generally mismanaged Amtrak program.
The fact that ability to work with Java is based on how politically friendly your organization is to Sun seems, to me, to be the primary problem with the Java licensing situation.
That's just a load of nonsense. If you want someone to offer help, it is generally wise not to piss them off. From day one, the OSS community has badgered and berated Sun. Sun has attempted to appease them, but certainly isn't going to go out of their way for someone who's effectively declared themselves an enemy.
So, Mr. AC. I think you're a loser and a jackass, you never say anything insightful, you're worthless, and you shouldn't even exist. Could I get you to lend me 50 bucks?
Get the point?
Keep in mind that Sun has been *really* nice to OSS projects in spite of themselves. AFAIK, they have never complained about the Kaffe or GCJ projects, never attempted to put barriers in the way, and tried to offer up as much information as possible. Look at the new JRL! It explicitly allows you to remember and reimplement anything you learn (one of the greatest criticisms of the previous license). Sun never intended to sue an OSS project because of things they learned from SCSL code, and have since clarified their position. That helps close the supposed holes in documentation that Kaffe and GCJ claim to exist. (Whatever they are, I certainly haven't seen them.)
As a developer, I don't give a shit whose bridges with Sun are and aren't burned. [...] Posted as anonymous coward because as a developer I have a business relationship with Sun
Oh the hypocrisy. Are you sure you aren't just trolling?
Java: One Step Closer To Open Source
*sigh* Sun is already as open as they're going to go with Java by releasing it under the Java Research License. Now Sun has never complained about or hawked Open Source JVMs, but neither have they been too keen on helping out projects who bite their hands. As a result, the project to watch is the Apache Harmony Project. Given that Apache maintains a close relationship with Sun, hasn't burned their bridges, and has a good track record for completing very complex software, there's a good chance that the Apache JVM will quickly exceed Kaffe and GCJ.
THe primary difference is that the CEV program is based on today's technology. The previous shuttle replacement plans (NASP, X-33, Delta Clipper, etc.) were all experimental craft that needed several unproven, expensive, and risky key technologies developed before they could be built. This was exasperated by the fact that those craft were being built on relatively low budgets. In the case of the X-33, nearly every component of the craft was one of those undeveloped technologies with no room for error or redesign.
:-)
In the case of the CEV, life is simple. Spiral One will only require that we build a technology similar to what was created in the 1960s. i.e. A capsule. Reusability isn't even specified, but most competitors have taken that route because they can. (The shuttle technologies are not completely going to waste here.)
Since the capsule will be designed for only carrying (relatively light) humans as opposed to the 28 tonnes of cargo + 104 tonnes of spacecraft the shuttle carried around, the engines will be nothing more than a commercial booster. In the case of the CEV, the booster will only need to manage a mere 20 tonnes to LEO. Which means that the CEV can pull a Delta IV or Atlas V off the shelf for launch operations. (The CEV program does have bugetting for a new rocket, but the point is that any rocket can be used.)
In short, the CEV is completely the correct idea. Use technology we have today to develop a targetted launch vehicle for humans, and worry about developing other vehicles through regular development programs. For cargo, just use a cargo specific vehicle. The very definition of KISS.
As I said, I live near the McCormick Center. Trust me, Michigan/King Drive can be hell on wheels when Chicago fills up. On foot is probably the best method of getting around, but it doesn't help much if you're trying to get from 30th all the way up to Millennium Park. :-/
Heh. Funny you should mention that. I was making that very point recently:
I got sick after I came back from the taste back in 2002.
:-/
I went there last year and I really didn't have any problems. It was busy like you wouldn't believe (elbow to elbow), but everything was served fresh, hot, clean, and at a maximum rip-off ratio. ($5 bucks a "taste"!?! Yikes!) In the last year, I've also been to a few Chicago ethnic events at the Daley center (mmm... Mid-Eastern food), and the food at those events was usually quite good as well.
My guess is that Chicago businesses have gotten fairly good at handling the outdoors serving. Not that I'm trying to change your mind. One case of food poisoning can easily frighten one away from a place for years.
Err... yeah, the ALA as well. In other words, Chicago is friggin' busy this weekend. Getting anywhere downtown is probably a nightmare on wheels.
On the bright side, at least the city has the infrastructure to absorb it. You should see how San Francisco shuts down every time the JavaOne Expo rolls into town! I would really love to strangle the guy who thought that taking the conference to the Sony Metronome in SF was a good idea.
Does anyone know if Google plans to open source Google File System?
Considering the competitive advantage it gives them? Not bloody likely. Besides, it's very much a system that's keyed to Google's usage patterns. Most regular businesses and users would see little to no benefit in Google's system. If you really think it's useful for your line of business, then read the paper (html) and implement a version more specific to your needs. Good luck!
damn good show
Except that it couldn't be at a worse time. Not only is NextFest happening, but you've also got the Tastes of Chicago, and Gay Pride March going on at the same time. Considering that I *live* near the McCormick Center, I'm darn glad I got out for the weekend. It's got to be absolutely nuts over there.
none of these offer complete exchange integration
FYI, Entourage (part of Office v.X) supports Exchange integration. In fact, Entourage is about the only real killer app in Office v.X when faced off with NeoOffice/J. Especially for environments where Exchange is an absolute must-have.
Entourage would actually be one of the best email clients out there if it didn't feel so darn quirky. It constantly does weird stuff, like get the time wrong, pop up dismissed meeting notices, hang while downloading, etc. Maybe it's improved since the last time I tried it, but its quirks prevented it from capturing the lions share of the Mac Email Client market before Apple finally got their act together on Mail.app.
What corporate offices *really* need, is a port of Evolution + Exchange Connector to the Mac. Now that would be cool.
FYI, I think the moderators marked you "flamebait" because you weren't paying attention. OOo for Mac require X11, looks like crap, acts like crap, and can't properly size a window to save its life. This spurred the invention of NeoOffice/J, which is OpenOffice, but using Java to fill in a few holes (such as the GUI). It does not require X11, it's reasonably snappy, holds up quite well, and has most (all?) of the features of the latest 1.x release of OpenOffice.
though excel really is the best spreadsheet software that I have yet seen on any platform.
That is the oddest thing to saY. IMHO, most spreadsheets are alike and interoperate quite well. It's the word processing documents that are the killer.
Now, why exactly has apple not came out with their version of office yet
Apple distributes (or at least used to distribute) AppleWorks with every copy of OS X. However, it's not really that great of an Office Suite, so most users tend to forget it exists. I don't even remember if I still have my copy on disk anymore. It's certainly not still on the Dock.