I can't find any info anywhere about the future price of the release version for Linux. Will it too be free? Note, I don't feel everything for Linux should be free (and really don't expect it to be free), I am just curious.
BTW, I think it is great that someone from SGI is actively following this discussion and commenting when necessary. While I don't agree with SGI's recent business decisions in general, I do appreciate their stance and activity on Linux.
Just wanted to say thanks to Tim for the interview. It's always interesting to get glimpse into the thinking of someone running a company that is "doing things right".
I have always respected ORA and have never purchased a book that I was disappointed with. With other publishers, I usually need to actually see (and feel) the book before I know I want to buy it, but ORA always provides a useful book. This means I can just go to their website (or Amazon's for the discount) and purchase a book on the desired topic without wondering if I am wasting my money.
Another thing about ORA I appreciate is that the cost of their books has remained reasonable, despite what the rest of industry may be doing.
While I might not (okay, probably never) purchase a hard bound copy of a book (unless forced), I might just purchase a leather bound version of a book I deem a classic or otherwise indespensible (sp?) book.
Come on, ORA is a business. In order to remain in business they need to sell things and MAKE A PROFIT. This is a quite fundamental concept. They have rent to pay (among other expenses) and each employee needs to get paid to support their families (pay their rent, buy food, etc.) This is reality!
Maybe you've been watching too much Star Trek, where everything you need can be replicated at a moments notice without apparent cost!
Information may or may not be a tangible good (depending on your interpretation), but those who collect and disseminate this information in a usable format need to be paid, or else they won't, and can't, do it.
ORA certainly places no restriction on your (or anyone else's) use and/or dissemination of the information contained in their books. They only limit you from merely making a photo-copy of their hard work and selling or giving it away. The information is still free, but you must expend some effort to make it available to others. Or, you could just loan them your copy of the book and they too can benifit from the information stored within. You cannot believe that publishing and distributing a book costs nothing. It costs real money, as does the creation and distribution of all physical objects. It costs real money to have someone available to take an order and package and ship that order to you.
Now that I've written all this, I really wonder if you are serious.
I would encourage anyone with an extra $400 bucks to apply for their own patent on whatever internet/software/computer/etc. process or algorithym you can imagine, speculate on, or read from a text book.
What we need to do to get this system changed is demonstrate how silly it is. Besides, you can also threaten companies with your bogus patents for fun and profit.
Remember they only have so many examiners and the examiners obviously don't check much, so have at it!
One thing to consider is using Linux (or some other Unix) as a file server and Windows/DOS for the workstations. There is still a lot of software out there that runs under DOS.
We do this for our custom written POS/Accounting package and it works well. This allows our "cash registers" to run dedicated (on 386's with WFW3.11, DOS tcpip sucks) and the other workstations running 95 or 98 to access the software while still allowing the workstations to run Office, etc.
Of course, the workstations crash periodically, but the servers run forever (or until you shut them down). In general DOS and Windows (less so) will run just fine if they are only running one app and it works right. We only require the "cash registers" and workstations to be up maybe 8-10 hours a day, so it works fine; a crash/lock up only causes minor inconviences.
The guy says he's a "cracker" not a hacker. What is this doing on Slashdot? Why should we care what some cracker says? We might be interested in someone who had some real talent, but then they wouldn't be broadcasting on MTV, would they?
Let's face it, "hacking" is the real description. Crackers are just punk kids who think they know something, "hacking" requires real skill. Whether you use it for good or evil is an ethical question, the same skill applies. Hackers are the people with skill and "crackers" are the wanna be's.
I would rather read something from Alan Cox any day rather than something from some idiot who's been on MTV. Although, I wouldn't want to piss Alan off, since he probably could hack into and trash the system's I'm responsible for if he choose to. Of course, "crackers" can now download scripts to do what they can't do themselves.
Flame me if you will, but this guy is a "cracker" (hacker wanna be) and doesn't deserve the bandwidth expended to carry his responses.
I'm at the point now, where I just don't care about "Open Source" and whether or not there is a trademark to "hopefully" be defended by someone. If they don't defend it as we think they should, then it is worthless to us anyway.
The true meaning has, and always will be, defined as RMS has defined it.
I'm not sure you can define one term to mean what is meant. It would seem that no matter what you do to define a term, everyone will still define it as whatever they want. You will need to use multiple terms and/or words to completely define the meaning you wish to convey.
Who cares if "Open Source" isn't a trademark, what would that mean anyway? We define what it means by the license we apply to our software.
As a reseller, I would like you to note that the best price I can get on an Official Redhat Linux is $70 plus shipping. From their (Redhat's) official distributor, the best I can get is $74.
How am I as a reseller, supposed to resell Redhat Linux 6.0 at $79.99?
Despite Microsofts outragesous prices, I can still make a better profit selling that and if something doesn't work, I can just say "Look, that's they way it is, until MS fixes it!", but with Linux I have to defend and fix any problems. The money I make off of support is probably roughly equal.
Which would you sell?
I love Linux and can easily sell it in many situations, but not if the "major" distributor decides to raise prices every release (without any added features, I might add), doesn't provide support, and doesn't even allow me room to make money.
It seems that what we need for data like this is for someone to just make CD's and sell them for a reasonable price. Then if/when software is written that can use the data sets the programs can just be distributed and the data CD's purchased to use with the programs.
Someone like Walnut Creek CDROM or CheapBytes or whoever could just sell the set for say $40. They should be able to recoup their investment fairly quickly.
Slashdot Mirror
I can't find any info anywhere about the future price of the release version for Linux. Will it too be free? Note, I don't feel everything for Linux should be free (and really don't expect it to be free), I am just curious.
BTW, I think it is great that someone from SGI is actively following this discussion and commenting when necessary. While I don't agree with SGI's recent business decisions in general, I do appreciate their stance and activity on Linux.
Derry Bryson
Just wanted to say thanks to Tim for the interview. It's always interesting to get glimpse into the thinking of someone running a company that is "doing things right".
I have always respected ORA and have never purchased a book that I was disappointed with. With other publishers, I usually need to actually see (and feel) the book before I know I want to buy it, but ORA always provides a useful book. This means I can just go to their website (or Amazon's for the discount) and purchase a book on the desired topic without wondering if I am wasting my money.
Another thing about ORA I appreciate is that the cost of their books has remained reasonable, despite what the rest of industry may be doing.
Derry Bryson
While I might not (okay, probably never) purchase a hard bound copy of a book (unless forced), I might just purchase a leather bound version of a book I deem a classic or otherwise indespensible (sp?) book.
Come on, ORA is a business. In order to remain in business they need to sell things and MAKE A PROFIT. This is a quite fundamental concept. They have rent to pay (among other expenses) and each employee needs to get paid to support their families (pay their rent, buy food, etc.) This is reality!
Maybe you've been watching too much Star Trek, where everything you need can be replicated at a moments notice without apparent cost!
Information may or may not be a tangible good (depending on your interpretation), but those who
collect and disseminate this information in a usable format need to be paid, or else they won't, and can't, do it.
ORA certainly places no restriction on your (or anyone else's) use and/or dissemination of the information contained in their books. They only limit you from merely making a photo-copy of their hard work and selling or giving it away. The information is still free, but you must expend some effort to make it available to others. Or, you could just loan them your copy of the book and they too can benifit from the information stored within. You cannot believe that publishing and distributing a book costs nothing. It costs real money, as does the creation and distribution of all physical objects. It costs real money to have someone available to take an order and package and ship that order to you.
Now that I've written all this, I really wonder if you are serious.
Sincerely,
Derry Bryson
I would encourage anyone with an extra $400
bucks to apply for their own patent on whatever
internet/software/computer/etc. process or algorithym you can imagine, speculate on, or
read from a text book.
What we need to do to get this system changed is demonstrate how silly it is. Besides, you can also threaten companies with your bogus patents for fun and profit.
Remember they only have so many examiners and the examiners obviously don't check much, so have at it!
One thing to consider is using Linux (or some other Unix) as a file server and Windows/DOS for the workstations. There is still a lot of software out there that runs under DOS.
We do this for our custom written POS/Accounting package and it works well. This allows our "cash registers" to run dedicated (on 386's with WFW3.11, DOS tcpip sucks) and the other workstations running 95 or 98 to access the software while still allowing the workstations to run Office, etc.
Of course, the workstations crash periodically, but the servers run forever (or until you shut them down). In general DOS and Windows (less so) will run just fine if they are only running one app and it works right. We only require the "cash registers" and workstations to be up maybe 8-10 hours a day, so it works fine; a crash/lock up only causes minor inconviences.
The guy says he's a "cracker" not a hacker. What
is this doing on Slashdot? Why should we care
what some cracker says? We might be interested
in someone who had some real talent, but then they
wouldn't be broadcasting on MTV, would they?
Let's face it, "hacking" is the real description. Crackers are just punk kids who think they know something, "hacking" requires real skill. Whether you use it for good or evil is an ethical question, the same skill applies. Hackers are the people with skill and "crackers" are the wanna be's.
I would rather read something from Alan Cox any day rather than something from some idiot who's been on MTV. Although, I wouldn't want to piss Alan off, since he probably could hack into and trash the system's I'm responsible for if he choose to. Of course, "crackers" can now download
scripts to do what they can't do themselves.
Flame me if you will, but this guy is a "cracker" (hacker wanna be) and doesn't deserve the bandwidth expended to carry his responses.
I'm at the point now, where I just don't care
about "Open Source" and whether or not there is
a trademark to "hopefully" be defended by
someone. If they don't defend it as we think
they should, then it is worthless to us anyway.
The true meaning has, and always will be, defined
as RMS has defined it.
I'm not sure you can define one term to mean
what is meant. It would seem that no matter
what you do to define a term, everyone will still
define it as whatever they want. You will need
to use multiple terms and/or words to completely
define the meaning you wish to convey.
Who cares if "Open Source" isn't a trademark, what
would that mean anyway? We define what it means
by the license we apply to our software.
Derry Bryson
As a reseller, I would like you to note that
the best price I can get on an Official Redhat
Linux is $70 plus shipping. From their (Redhat's)
official distributor, the best I can get is $74.
How am I as a reseller, supposed to resell Redhat
Linux 6.0 at $79.99?
Despite Microsofts outragesous prices, I can
still make a better profit selling that and if
something doesn't work, I can just say "Look,
that's they way it is, until MS fixes it!",
but with Linux I have to defend and fix any
problems. The money I make off of support
is probably roughly equal.
Which would you sell?
I love Linux and can easily sell it in many
situations, but not if the "major" distributor
decides to raise prices every release (without
any added features, I might add), doesn't provide
support, and doesn't even allow me room to make
money.
Derry Bryson
It seems that what we need for data like this is for someone to just make CD's and sell them for a reasonable price. Then if/when software is written that can use the data sets the programs can just be distributed and the data CD's purchased to use with the programs.
Someone like Walnut Creek CDROM or CheapBytes or whoever could just sell the set for say $40. They should be able to recoup their investment fairly quickly.