I remain amazed at the lack of awareness of what IBM has been doing with mainframes for over 20 years when it comes to database clustering. Parallel Sysplex is what IBM calls its clustering framework for mainframes. Critical core system environment applications like DB2, IMS, and CICS are written to take advantage of services from OS/390 and a special CPU known as a coupling facility that enable extremely high reliability, recovery and failover. Since most involved in open-source seem seriously mainframe clueless, I am not surprised that both the open source and closed source offerings on Linux still do not even come close to what IBM has achieved.
Of course it doesn't help that computer science arrogance continues to make people look at mainframes as if they were dinosaurs, and as a result important lessons go unlearned. If open source database developers want to get a clue, it's high time they learned about Parallel Sysplex. By the way- Linux on the mainframe doesn't even take advantage of this, but it probably doesn't help that IBM keeps the whole approach of the underlying supporting hardware proprietary. It costs alot of money to learn how to use the coupling facility, for example.
ADABAS/C is not really a hierarchical database, rather it is a file management system with commands that implement a query structure on top of the file management. SQL queries are possible using add-on modules. ADABAS/D is a fully-relational database, running on Linux since 1996, and included in Staroffice 5.2. Regrettably, Software AG, the producer of ADABAS/D, has demonstrated no real commitment to the product in the US, preferring to focus its energies on its XML database known as Tamino and of course the classic line of its products associated with mainframes, ADABAS/C and Natural(a 4GL).
SAP DB is one of the few databases on Linux that is being run for core business financial functions through its application in 800 customer installations of SAP R/3, its enterprise resource planning(ERP, reread accounting) system software. It really is amazing to see such a piece of software released largely under GPL.
SAP does not yet understand the culture of open source very well in that they refuse to publish the source code to the password management routines, and refuse to document certain modes of operation such as LiveCache, Data Warehouse, and Content Server. This is most unfortunate, given what these functions can offer. One can hope that over time they will become more comfortable with the full process.
After noticing the distance limitation, it became obvious to me that this is simply VDSL with some marketing hype. It's quite simple- if you can limit the distance between the DSLAM and the home to about 3000 feet and under, it is very easy to achieve 52m down/26m up or 26m symmetric over plain old copper.
The issue is the cost of bringing fiber to the local DSLAM concentrators in a neighborhood, and the large number of concentrators and their associated costs as a result. If they can bring fiber to the neighborhood, why not go all the the way and do fiber to the home or 100baseT ethernet to the home from the same concentrators? I know- capital investment cost.
If you think it's bad now, just look ahead.
on
Broadband Obstacles
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
While some of you know and suffer from high-speed ISPs who cap your speed and limit your monthly downloads, you haven't heard the best one yet. What these ISP's, content providers, microsoft, and other software application people really want to do is to charge you per packet and per application for what you actually do. There is a consortium of companies, identified at www.ipdr.org, who are designing and developing the modifications to internet protocol, operational support systems, and billing mechanisms to facilitate this.
It might well be that communities of users like ourselves may want to do what it takes to build our own networks in our own communities and then expand further into a secondary nationwide network.
Civicnet will not be, contrary to what some commentators here have written, a city utility. The analogy that Doug Powers and other personnel have been using is that of a mall, with the city being an anchor tenant. In other words, since the success of a mall depends to some degree on the number of large square footage spaces being rented, the city with its $25M-$30M annual telecom expenses is in effect an anchor tenant renter of 'space'(reread capacity). One consortium or telecom company will be the owner of the Civicnet 'mall', and the city will just be another tenant, albeit an important tenant.
The problems here are manifold, starting with the question of whether the companies who are on the RFP(request for proposal) short list will be able to get the up front capital to build out the network. Then, with an expected time to complete of 10 years, it is questionable as to whether in the intervening time they will be able to service the debt they incur to finance the buildout and at the same time show a path to profitability.
If the issue is getting real broadband to underserved areas of Chicago, there are technologies today which can do that in less than one year, as many of the people here know.
You have a golden opportunity to address many important needs. I would like to suggest some curriculum areas for you:
1. Teach about entrepreneurship, as in how business works, how you start a business, as well as the important operational aspects. If you can, try to do this for both for-profit and non-profit examples. Kids need to get some idea of how to create their own opportunities.
2. In computing,regardless of some of the biases of the typical slashdot reader, it is important that these kids have a grasp of written communication as facilitated by word processing, financial dynamics of business organizations as facilitated by spreadsheet use, and information management and analysis as facilitated by RDBMS.
3. Be sure you teach them about how to install, configure, and use open source operating systems, and explain why this is a more effective solution in their community. Show them how both new and old machines can be effectively used.
4. Teach them about programming in at least C and 2-3 other languages. Not all will be willing to do this, but it is important to make this a priority so it is at least an option. Too many community technology programs offer nothing like this, and thus prevent impoverished youth and adults from entering the computer field.
5. It is very important that they have a chance to learn about computer networking, to the point where they can install and configure a basic network of machines connected to a DSL or cable connection. Modems count here too. I would also want to help them appreciate security issues and how to deal with them.
6. Be sure to do something which addresses the artistic talents which many of your students may have. In the music arena in particular, you should make it possible for students to record their own music, and put out their own CDs for sale in their community.
I hope you find these suggestions helpful.
Play a different game- use nonprofit structure.
on
MS VP Speech Online
·
· Score: 1
When the game you are playing is setup to be tough and possibly fail, maybe it's time to change the rules. The best thing might be to start doing open source development and support under the form of legal business organization known as a 501(c)(3) nonprofit. And to accomplish the same thing with telecommunications, to provide a more open, useful, and affordable broadband infrastructure, use the 501(c)(4) nonprofit mutual cooperative structure.
Open source software might very well in the long-term be unprofitable, and to this I say a hearty "so what?". People need to understand that making profits and having ownership in a for-profit sense is not the only way to achieve financial and community success. Nonprofit organizations may pay salaries to their employees, sell products for revenue, and provide tax deductions to their contributors. Someone ought to look at the 990 tax return of the FSF sometime to see just how well this model works. Richard Stallman's nonprofit organization is actually doing rather well, and should serve as a model to people of what can be possible. People who want to make a living in open source might want to consider forming a nonprofit with a focus on development of software, support of it, and education to others in development methods.
As for broadband, if people wanted to, they could build their own networks under the auspices of a 501(c)(4) mutual cooperative organization which gets a CLEC certification. CLEC refers to (c)ompetitive (l)ocal (e)xchange (c)arrier, which is to say that such an entity is able to buy bandwidth at a wholesale price from an ILEC (i)ncumbent (l)ocal (e)xchange (c)arrier like Ameritech or Pacbell. It might even be possible to offer voice service through a structure like this.
Instead of playing the same for-profit game as everyone else, maybe it's time folks considered playing the nonprofit game as a vehicle for the many levels of success all of us in the open source game aspire to.
SAP DB is derived from ADABAS/D 6.1, which ran on Linux and many other platforms, and is a RDBMS.
ADABAS/C, the MVS database, is a non-relational product and entirely different.
This post is right on the mark. Problem is that IBM has an extortive software licensing charge policy on which they are addicted for revenue, and they have not demonstrated much wisdom in general in the 390 group on this subject. For example, if you get an older lower end machine, a Multiprise 2000, and you get an equivalent model of the Multiprise 3000 with the same machine capacity (MIPS), you can pay $5000/month on the 3000 whereas you would pay $11000/month on the 2000.
IBM's 390 group is insulated from the real world of most linux people. They need to get a clue and take Mr. Maynard's suggestion seriously, with no commercial restrictions on such a license under a certain machine capacity level- say 150 MIPS.
I have been following the Linux/390 situation for a bit of time now, and I find myself left with some questions and concerns. I write this to ask thoughts of others.
It's all fine and good that IBM is actually supporting the notion of Linux running on the S/390 and their new 64 bit zSeries mainframes. What are the real benefits to the Linux community as a whole, and is there any real commercial relevance to this whole thing?
For example- as far as I know, Linux/390 still can't operate with most IBM I/O devices, or take full advantage of the rich error and recovery approaches built into the S/390 hardware. And most astonishingly of all, it still can't deal with a tape drive directly. On top of all this, like the worst things which the linux community has seen in recalcitrant video hardware manufacturers, IBM refuses to fully document their network interface hardware and provide open source drivers for it.
In addition, much of the IBM hardware itself in terms of its direct programming is not documented. Along with this, the effort for development and refinement of Linux/390 is concentrated in Boblingen, Germany and consists of code drops from a team there.
The fact that most Linux developers have no access to a System 390 means that the development of that port lags radically behind others and is slow to respond to bug situations and potential development enhancements. So, from the Linux community point of view, what is the real contribution of Linux/390 to the mix?
As for the commercial side, we are hearing little to nothing of how Linux/390 is making any real inroads in the mainframe arena. If you talk to IBM Business Partners, a group who sells mainframe computers to businesses, they will tell you that Linux is not even on the radar of the people they deal with. And a lovely singular sale like Telia AB, who bought a high end S/390 Parallel Sysplex machine, does not speak to how IBM is potentially succeeding in the small and medium size business arena in selling machines like the Multiprise 3000 with VM and Linux.
It seems that for the most part Linux/390 is the province of large conglomerates with either excess capacity on existing equipment, or a very limited cost-sensitive server consolidation situation. Beyond that, there's nothing. There are no benefits to the open source community's involvement with Linux because they can't get to a 390 if they wanted to. Other IBM efforts are probably more useful, and hopefully will be encouraged.
Some comments on this subject have been rather inaccurate, and I would like to set some things straight.
First, Software AG has two database products which contain the name ADABAS- one is known simply as ADABAS or ADABAS/C, and is a non-relational database largely used in high volume transaction processing applications on mainframes.
The other product is known as ADABAS/D, and has been running on Linux/x86 since 1996. It is a fully relational product, with many features that distinguish it from Linux-johnny-come-latelies like Oracle, Informix, and Sybase. For example, it supports 3 sql dialects- ANSI, Oracle, and ADABAS(its native dialect). In the native dialect, through a unique set of statements like SELECT DIRECT, READ PREVIOUS, READ NEXT, and so on- it enables a database to be treated like an ISAM file. In addition to all this, it has lower administrative requirements of any Linux database given all the features it supports.
SAP DB as best as I understand it came from the ADABAS/D source code being purchased by SAP AG from Software AG. I am not sure how much it has actually diverged from ADABAS/D itself. If the story is true that SAP AG will make its SAP DB source code available, this is nothing short of incredible. No matter what anyone wants to say about MySQL and PostgreSQL, the fact is that ADABAS/D has been an enterprise grade client/server relational database running on Linux since 1996. No other commercial database product matches this level of code development/maturity on Linux/x86. The release of this source code if this is true would enable programmers and users to learn a great deal about the implementation of a real commercially useful database- something no database textbook even comes close to.
Time to see if this was yet another unfounded rumor.
Slashdot Mirror
I remain amazed at the lack of awareness of what IBM has been doing with mainframes for over 20 years when it comes to database clustering. Parallel Sysplex is what IBM calls its clustering framework for mainframes. Critical core system environment applications like DB2, IMS, and CICS are written to take advantage of services from OS/390 and a special CPU known as a coupling facility that enable extremely high reliability, recovery and failover. Since most involved in open-source seem seriously mainframe clueless, I am not surprised that both the open source and closed source offerings on Linux still do not even come close to what IBM has achieved.
Of course it doesn't help that computer science arrogance continues to make people look at mainframes as if they were dinosaurs, and as a result important lessons go unlearned. If open source database developers want to get a clue, it's high time they learned about Parallel Sysplex. By the way- Linux on the mainframe doesn't even take advantage of this, but it probably doesn't help that IBM keeps the whole approach of the underlying supporting hardware proprietary. It costs alot of money to learn how to use the coupling facility, for example.
ADABAS/C is not really a hierarchical database, rather it is a file management system with commands that implement a query structure on top of the file management. SQL queries are possible using add-on modules. ADABAS/D is a fully-relational database, running on Linux since 1996, and included in Staroffice 5.2. Regrettably, Software AG, the producer of ADABAS/D, has demonstrated no real commitment to the product in the US, preferring to focus its energies on its XML database known as Tamino and of course the classic line of its products associated with mainframes, ADABAS/C and Natural(a 4GL).
SAP DB is one of the few databases on Linux that is being run for core business financial functions through its application in 800 customer installations of SAP R/3, its enterprise resource planning(ERP, reread accounting) system software. It really is amazing to see such a piece of software released largely under GPL.
SAP does not yet understand the culture of open source very well in that they refuse to publish the source code to the password management routines, and refuse to document certain modes of operation such as LiveCache, Data Warehouse, and Content Server. This is most unfortunate, given what these functions can offer. One can hope that over time they will become more comfortable with the full process.
After noticing the distance limitation, it became obvious to me that this is simply VDSL with some marketing hype. It's quite simple- if you can limit the distance between the DSLAM and the home to about 3000 feet and under, it is very easy to achieve 52m down/26m up or 26m symmetric over plain old copper.
The issue is the cost of bringing fiber to the local DSLAM concentrators in a neighborhood, and the large number of concentrators and their associated costs as a result. If they can bring fiber to the neighborhood, why not go all the the way and do fiber to the home or 100baseT ethernet to the home from the same concentrators? I know- capital investment cost.
While some of you know and suffer from high-speed ISPs who cap your speed and limit your monthly downloads, you haven't heard the best one yet. What these ISP's, content providers, microsoft, and other software application people really want to do is to charge you per packet and per application for what you actually do. There is a consortium of companies, identified at www.ipdr.org, who are designing and developing the modifications to internet protocol, operational support systems, and billing mechanisms to facilitate this.
It might well be that communities of users like ourselves may want to do what it takes to build our own networks in our own communities and then expand further into a secondary nationwide network.
Civicnet will not be, contrary to what some commentators here have written, a city utility. The analogy that Doug Powers and other personnel have been using is that of a mall, with the city being an anchor tenant. In other words, since the success of a mall depends to some degree on the number of large square footage spaces being rented, the city with its $25M-$30M annual telecom expenses is in effect an anchor tenant renter of 'space'(reread capacity). One consortium or telecom company will be the owner of the Civicnet 'mall', and the city will just be another tenant, albeit an important tenant.
The problems here are manifold, starting with the question of whether the companies who are on the RFP(request for proposal) short list will be able to get the up front capital to build out the network. Then, with an expected time to complete of 10 years, it is questionable as to whether in the intervening time they will be able to service the debt they incur to finance the buildout and at the same time show a path to profitability.
If the issue is getting real broadband to underserved areas of Chicago, there are technologies today which can do that in less than one year, as many of the people here know.
You have a golden opportunity to address many important needs. I would like to suggest some curriculum areas for you: 1. Teach about entrepreneurship, as in how business works, how you start a business, as well as the important operational aspects. If you can, try to do this for both for-profit and non-profit examples. Kids need to get some idea of how to create their own opportunities. 2. In computing,regardless of some of the biases of the typical slashdot reader, it is important that these kids have a grasp of written communication as facilitated by word processing, financial dynamics of business organizations as facilitated by spreadsheet use, and information management and analysis as facilitated by RDBMS. 3. Be sure you teach them about how to install, configure, and use open source operating systems, and explain why this is a more effective solution in their community. Show them how both new and old machines can be effectively used. 4. Teach them about programming in at least C and 2-3 other languages. Not all will be willing to do this, but it is important to make this a priority so it is at least an option. Too many community technology programs offer nothing like this, and thus prevent impoverished youth and adults from entering the computer field. 5. It is very important that they have a chance to learn about computer networking, to the point where they can install and configure a basic network of machines connected to a DSL or cable connection. Modems count here too. I would also want to help them appreciate security issues and how to deal with them. 6. Be sure to do something which addresses the artistic talents which many of your students may have. In the music arena in particular, you should make it possible for students to record their own music, and put out their own CDs for sale in their community. I hope you find these suggestions helpful.
When the game you are playing is setup to be tough and possibly fail, maybe it's time to change the rules. The best thing might be to start doing open source development and support under the form of legal business organization known as a 501(c)(3) nonprofit. And to accomplish the same thing with telecommunications, to provide a more open, useful, and affordable broadband infrastructure, use the 501(c)(4) nonprofit mutual cooperative structure.
Open source software might very well in the long-term be unprofitable, and to this I say a hearty "so what?". People need to understand that making profits and having ownership in a for-profit sense is not the only way to achieve financial and community success. Nonprofit organizations may pay salaries to their employees, sell products for revenue, and provide tax deductions to their contributors. Someone ought to look at the 990 tax return of the FSF sometime to see just how well this model works. Richard Stallman's nonprofit organization is actually doing rather well, and should serve as a model to people of what can be possible. People who want to make a living in open source might want to consider forming a nonprofit with a focus on development of software, support of it, and education to others in development methods.
As for broadband, if people wanted to, they could build their own networks under the auspices of a 501(c)(4) mutual cooperative organization which gets a CLEC certification. CLEC refers to (c)ompetitive (l)ocal (e)xchange (c)arrier, which is to say that such an entity is able to buy bandwidth at a wholesale price from an ILEC (i)ncumbent (l)ocal (e)xchange (c)arrier like Ameritech or Pacbell. It might even be possible to offer voice service through a structure like this.
Instead of playing the same for-profit game as everyone else, maybe it's time folks considered playing the nonprofit game as a vehicle for the many levels of success all of us in the open source game aspire to.
SAP DB is derived from ADABAS/D 6.1, which ran on Linux and many other platforms, and is a RDBMS. ADABAS/C, the MVS database, is a non-relational product and entirely different.
This post is right on the mark. Problem is that IBM has an extortive software licensing charge policy on which they are addicted for revenue, and they have not demonstrated much wisdom in general in the 390 group on this subject. For example, if you get an older lower end machine, a Multiprise 2000, and you get an equivalent model of the Multiprise 3000 with the same machine capacity (MIPS), you can pay $5000/month on the 3000 whereas you would pay $11000/month on the 2000. IBM's 390 group is insulated from the real world of most linux people. They need to get a clue and take Mr. Maynard's suggestion seriously, with no commercial restrictions on such a license under a certain machine capacity level- say 150 MIPS.
I have been following the Linux/390 situation for a bit of time now, and I find myself left with some questions and concerns. I write this to ask thoughts of others. It's all fine and good that IBM is actually supporting the notion of Linux running on the S/390 and their new 64 bit zSeries mainframes. What are the real benefits to the Linux community as a whole, and is there any real commercial relevance to this whole thing? For example- as far as I know, Linux/390 still can't operate with most IBM I/O devices, or take full advantage of the rich error and recovery approaches built into the S/390 hardware. And most astonishingly of all, it still can't deal with a tape drive directly. On top of all this, like the worst things which the linux community has seen in recalcitrant video hardware manufacturers, IBM refuses to fully document their network interface hardware and provide open source drivers for it. In addition, much of the IBM hardware itself in terms of its direct programming is not documented. Along with this, the effort for development and refinement of Linux/390 is concentrated in Boblingen, Germany and consists of code drops from a team there. The fact that most Linux developers have no access to a System 390 means that the development of that port lags radically behind others and is slow to respond to bug situations and potential development enhancements. So, from the Linux community point of view, what is the real contribution of Linux/390 to the mix? As for the commercial side, we are hearing little to nothing of how Linux/390 is making any real inroads in the mainframe arena. If you talk to IBM Business Partners, a group who sells mainframe computers to businesses, they will tell you that Linux is not even on the radar of the people they deal with. And a lovely singular sale like Telia AB, who bought a high end S/390 Parallel Sysplex machine, does not speak to how IBM is potentially succeeding in the small and medium size business arena in selling machines like the Multiprise 3000 with VM and Linux. It seems that for the most part Linux/390 is the province of large conglomerates with either excess capacity on existing equipment, or a very limited cost-sensitive server consolidation situation. Beyond that, there's nothing. There are no benefits to the open source community's involvement with Linux because they can't get to a 390 if they wanted to. Other IBM efforts are probably more useful, and hopefully will be encouraged.
Linux Kontor is the only one I am aware of- and interestingly enough uses ADABAS/D as its underlying database.
Some comments on this subject have been rather inaccurate, and I would like to set some things straight. First, Software AG has two database products which contain the name ADABAS- one is known simply as ADABAS or ADABAS/C, and is a non-relational database largely used in high volume transaction processing applications on mainframes. The other product is known as ADABAS/D, and has been running on Linux/x86 since 1996. It is a fully relational product, with many features that distinguish it from Linux-johnny-come-latelies like Oracle, Informix, and Sybase. For example, it supports 3 sql dialects- ANSI, Oracle, and ADABAS(its native dialect). In the native dialect, through a unique set of statements like SELECT DIRECT, READ PREVIOUS, READ NEXT, and so on- it enables a database to be treated like an ISAM file. In addition to all this, it has lower administrative requirements of any Linux database given all the features it supports. SAP DB as best as I understand it came from the ADABAS/D source code being purchased by SAP AG from Software AG. I am not sure how much it has actually diverged from ADABAS/D itself. If the story is true that SAP AG will make its SAP DB source code available, this is nothing short of incredible. No matter what anyone wants to say about MySQL and PostgreSQL, the fact is that ADABAS/D has been an enterprise grade client/server relational database running on Linux since 1996. No other commercial database product matches this level of code development/maturity on Linux/x86. The release of this source code if this is true would enable programmers and users to learn a great deal about the implementation of a real commercially useful database- something no database textbook even comes close to. Time to see if this was yet another unfounded rumor.