Napster was sued because big corporations got scared that this type of file sharing reached such a wide audience (oh no, our profits!!! eek!), not because of copyright infringement that Napster had nothing to do with. They nearly pooped their pants at the idea that almost everyone could get music for free.
Just someone makes crank calls on a telephone doesnt mean that the provider, BT or Orange for example, are to blame -- telephones are just as wide spread if not more than the internet.
Erm... hold on... analogy alert... so if I play music down my telephone on call waiting they could SUE ME TOO?? OH NOOOO! Better switch off my answer phone too then:(
What do YOU, mr/ms clever, define as a MEDIUM in any different way than the rest of us?? According to the dictionary (which last time I looked defines what language actually mean - probably something u could do with no doubt):
"medium (md-m)
n. pl. media (-d-) or mediums
Something, such as an intermediate course of action, that occupies a position or represents a condition midway between extremes.
An intervening substance through which something else is transmitted or carried on.
An agency by which something is accomplished, conveyed, or transferred: The train was the usual medium of transportation in those days.
pl. media Usage Problem.
A means of mass communication, such as newpapers, magazines, radio, or television."
Therefore, the Internet is a Medium, a newspaper is a medium, a damn RADIO WAVE is a medium and THEREFORE NAPSTER is a medium.
[sarcasm]Sure. I know, lets ban all use of CD-RW shall we? After all, its a medium that could be used to - god forbid - pirate software!!
Or how about banning the use of the video recorder? Yea, thats a good idea. [/sarcasm]
Just because a medium is abused, does not mean that it's the mediums fault: therefore just because ppl abused napster doesnt mean that its Napsters fault, or that they should do anything about it in all fairness. I can go to my local library and borrow a copy of any CD or Tape I want and if I wanted to I COULD COPY IT *gasp*. That would be MY fault, and *I* should pay the consequences for it. Should we regulate my local library so that they have to provide non-copyable material? That would be stupid, as was the descision by the courts over Napster.
Lets get the line between the "medium" separated from the "copyright infringers" clear, shall we?
Vehicles that can float about the ground and glide along?
QUICK! Someone invent the hovercraft!!
Oh, wait...
Ok I've got an idea.. someone get a hoover, a beach ball and firmly attach the hoover's nozzle in an upward pointing direction, flip it on and put the beach ball over it...
*points and screams* anti gravity! Anti gravity!
But seriously, why is this experiment any different to the beachball effect? Psure, you have particles able to travel through stuff, but its the same principle no?
They use a little fuzzy logic or a neural net and they figure out what makes them move forward and then remember that.
The challenge here is to learn HOW to develop the systems that cope with co-operation or learning using neural nets, mathematics or other forms of AI from first principles; finding one that you think works best the best and then pitting it against other people with different ideas (kinda like a genectic algorithm dont ya think?). You may be able to buy a lego mindstorms kit and develop a robot in a weekend, but that doesnt mean that someone didnt have to start building a robot and working out how to achieve these things in the first place or give a good enough reason for not even trying to do this kind of stuff, which if isnt robot wars is still cool.
And I stand by my fact that it takes a lot of maths, even with a neural net or fuzzy logic. How do you think a artificial neural network actually works if not by some form of mathematics? Your brain works in parallel, each neuron firing individually but some at the same time as others - a computer has to go through each neuron individually, calculating the outcomes of every neuron and feeding them into the others etc. We cant even make systems that are as intelligent as an ant yet, let alone a real dog, for the exact reason that is TOO BLOODY SLOW and complicated. We dont know enough about these systems or the systems that create effective behaviour yet - which is exactly WHY we have these competitions.
As for fuzzy logic, yes computational speeds have increased but its still an almost an exponential curve as you add rules to a fuzzy system - and even working out what rules to put into the equation in the first place is sometimes a process of trial and error. Read this to find out more.
I'm sorry but its not as clear cut or as easy as your nice little world tries to make it out to be, theres a lot of groundwork to be covered in AI. Unfortunately most of AI's potential is still locked up in university labs, or simply not possible because our technology holds us back - we've come a long way but "Mindstorms" only scratches the surface.
Oh and before you shout "What would you know?" at me, I did study this at university, so I do know a little bit about it.. I even wrote my own autonomous co-operating AI agent which avoided walls etc for my final year project. Mindbending maths, I assure you.
Re:let's hope it doesn't get Battlebot'd
on
RoboCup 2001 Underway
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Ho hum. Trolls eh? I suppose I'll stoop this time...
I think you're totally missing the point. Some of these robots are autonomous, and they can communicate and CO-OPERATE together.
In english, this means that they can figure out, without help from people, exactly what they are and what they are supposed to do and how they are supposed to do it. On top of that, they communicate their goals to other robots on the field; leaving jobs to others that they can't do themselves.
Have you ever done the maths to try to figure out how to keep a robot upright, let alone have it hover in a stable manner? Come back when you can translate a gyroscopic reading into mathematical equations to adjust flight axis via electronic motors and gears. Do you know how hard it is mathematically to work out where your legs are supposed to go in order to move forward, or how hard it is to figure out a game strategy based on what all your team mates are doing when they are all working independantly from you? Don't even talk to me about sensors or video optical processing! None of this is trivial by todays technological standards. It is bloody hard, intesive and time consuming mathematics which eats up processor time and leaves alot of robots trundling along at the pace of a snail.
As for the AI, when you can write a program that even comes close to a bot in quake with a single goal, come back and we'll have this discussion again.
Its a shame we have people like you. I like robot wars et al, but really, this technology isnt playing around with robots; it has REAL and IMPORTANT implications for todays society. Imagine a world where, instead of firefighters putting their lives at risk, we had autonomous teams of robots that new how to put out fires and could co-operate to complete the job - or how about a fleet of autonomous helicopters that could communicate and co-operate with each other to do innumerable tasks? Still want your mindless robot wars crap? Thought not.
Do not mock this technology - it's more important and more difficult to achieve than you think, and has more applications than you could ever dream of.
As for that list, it doens't mean shit. I started on a 48k ZX Spectrum, then a C= C16,
You traitor!!!! You shall be summarily thwoked.
THWOK!
No one who had a speccy would even dare look at, let alone BUY a commy 16.. shame on you!
Ahem. Saying that, speccy owners who bought Amigas, I take it back.. they rocked! (and they still do!)- but not if you bought the one that looked like a door stop...
I agree. What WOULD make me want to switch - and I would do it immediately - is if they made retail games cross platform. (I know, I know, I'm a sad gamer.. please, spare me). Not neccesarily in a cross platform language but ~developed~ the game on more than one platform and/or released at least the/game engines/ on all platforms. Now that would turn my head. I dont know of any games (read decent games companies) doing this of late; only some obscure second parties doing it in their spare time. If I could buy it off the shelf, I'd be much more inclined to switch.
Even if this cost me a little more cash, say 35 quid instead of 29.99 I'd be willing to do it.
Theres been an interesting series running on the BBC about the miraculous abilities of the body, superhuman, and one of those episodes was about stem cells.
Apparently, these stem cells "know" what cells need replacing and change themselves into them. Even spinal cords can be replaced this way, although its like joining wires at random.
If you think about it, joining nerves at random should work -- the brain should be able to relearn to use new wiring as it's a neural system, it would just take some time and patience.
I'm sorry for stooping to this, but you really dont understand what you are talking about.
I used VB to create an app. I admit it. As a developer fairly new into industry back then, we as a team decided VB was the language of choice for some of the reasons you mentioned. The repercussions were terrible. Spagetti. Nuff said.
VB = Mountain of Hacks (tm) and thats being nice.
As for what they've done to C++, dont even go there.
Slashdot Mirror
Wrong.
:(
Napster was sued because big corporations got scared that this type of file sharing reached such a wide audience (oh no, our profits!!! eek!), not because of copyright infringement that Napster had nothing to do with. They nearly pooped their pants at the idea that almost everyone could get music for free.
Just someone makes crank calls on a telephone doesnt mean that the provider, BT or Orange for example, are to blame -- telephones are just as wide spread if not more than the internet.
Erm... hold on... analogy alert... so if I play music down my telephone on call waiting they could SUE ME TOO?? OH NOOOO! Better switch off my answer phone too then
Pah.
what?!? GET A BRAIN, BRAINIAC
What do YOU, mr/ms clever, define as a MEDIUM in any different way than the rest of us?? According to the dictionary (which last time I looked defines what language actually mean - probably something u could do with no doubt):
"medium (md-m) n. pl. media (-d-) or mediums Something, such as an intermediate course of action, that occupies a position or represents a condition midway between extremes. An intervening substance through which something else is transmitted or carried on. An agency by which something is accomplished, conveyed, or transferred: The train was the usual medium of transportation in those days. pl. media Usage Problem. A means of mass communication, such as newpapers, magazines, radio, or television."
Therefore, the Internet is a Medium, a newspaper is a medium, a damn RADIO WAVE is a medium and THEREFORE NAPSTER is a medium.
Oh dear, you've just burst into flames.
[sarcasm]Sure. I know, lets ban all use of CD-RW shall we? After all, its a medium that could be used to - god forbid - pirate software!!
Or how about banning the use of the video recorder? Yea, thats a good idea. [/sarcasm]
Just because a medium is abused, does not mean that it's the mediums fault: therefore just because ppl abused napster doesnt mean that its Napsters fault, or that they should do anything about it in all fairness. I can go to my local library and borrow a copy of any CD or Tape I want and if I wanted to I COULD COPY IT *gasp*. That would be MY fault, and *I* should pay the consequences for it. Should we regulate my local library so that they have to provide non-copyable material? That would be stupid, as was the descision by the courts over Napster.
Lets get the line between the "medium" separated from the "copyright infringers" clear, shall we?
Vehicles that can float about the ground and glide along?
QUICK! Someone invent the hovercraft!!
Oh, wait...
Ok I've got an idea.. someone get a hoover, a beach ball and firmly attach the hoover's nozzle in an upward pointing direction, flip it on and put the beach ball over it...
*points and screams* anti gravity! Anti gravity!
But seriously, why is this experiment any different to the beachball effect? Psure, you have particles able to travel through stuff, but its the same principle no?
They use a little fuzzy logic or a neural net and they figure out what makes them move forward and then remember that.
The challenge here is to learn HOW to develop the systems that cope with co-operation or learning using neural nets, mathematics or other forms of AI from first principles; finding one that you think works best the best and then pitting it against other people with different ideas (kinda like a genectic algorithm dont ya think?). You may be able to buy a lego mindstorms kit and develop a robot in a weekend, but that doesnt mean that someone didnt have to start building a robot and working out how to achieve these things in the first place or give a good enough reason for not even trying to do this kind of stuff, which if isnt robot wars is still cool.
And I stand by my fact that it takes a lot of maths, even with a neural net or fuzzy logic. How do you think a artificial neural network actually works if not by some form of mathematics? Your brain works in parallel, each neuron firing individually but some at the same time as others - a computer has to go through each neuron individually, calculating the outcomes of every neuron and feeding them into the others etc. We cant even make systems that are as intelligent as an ant yet, let alone a real dog, for the exact reason that is TOO BLOODY SLOW and complicated. We dont know enough about these systems or the systems that create effective behaviour yet - which is exactly WHY we have these competitions.
As for fuzzy logic, yes computational speeds have increased but its still an almost an exponential curve as you add rules to a fuzzy system - and even working out what rules to put into the equation in the first place is sometimes a process of trial and error.
Read this to find out more.
I'm sorry but its not as clear cut or as easy as your nice little world tries to make it out to be, theres a lot of groundwork to be covered in AI. Unfortunately most of AI's potential is still locked up in university labs, or simply not possible because our technology holds us back - we've come a long way but "Mindstorms" only scratches the surface.
Oh and before you shout "What would you know?" at me, I did study this at university, so I do know a little bit about it.. I even wrote my own autonomous co-operating AI agent which avoided walls etc for my final year project. Mindbending maths, I assure you.
Ho hum. Trolls eh? I suppose I'll stoop this time...
I think you're totally missing the point. Some of these robots are autonomous, and they can communicate and CO-OPERATE together.
In english, this means that they can figure out, without help from people, exactly what they are and what they are supposed to do and how they are supposed to do it. On top of that, they communicate their goals to other robots on the field; leaving jobs to others that they can't do themselves.
Have you ever done the maths to try to figure out how to keep a robot upright, let alone have it hover in a stable manner? Come back when you can translate a gyroscopic reading into mathematical equations to adjust flight axis via electronic motors and gears. Do you know how hard it is mathematically to work out where your legs are supposed to go in order to move forward, or how hard it is to figure out a game strategy based on what all your team mates are doing when they are all working independantly from you? Don't even talk to me about sensors or video optical processing! None of this is trivial by todays technological standards. It is bloody hard, intesive and time consuming mathematics which eats up processor time and leaves alot of robots trundling along at the pace of a snail.
As for the AI, when you can write a program that even comes close to a bot in quake with a single goal, come back and we'll have this discussion again.
Its a shame we have people like you. I like robot wars et al, but really, this technology isnt playing around with robots; it has REAL and IMPORTANT implications for todays society. Imagine a world where, instead of firefighters putting their lives at risk, we had autonomous teams of robots that new how to put out fires and could co-operate to complete the job - or how about a fleet of autonomous helicopters that could communicate and co-operate with each other to do innumerable tasks? Still want your mindless robot wars crap? Thought not.
Do not mock this technology - it's more important and more difficult to achieve than you think, and has more applications than you could ever dream of.
Was that Wine or wine?
*grin*
As for that list, it doens't mean shit. I started on a 48k ZX Spectrum, then a C= C16,
You traitor!!! ! You shall be summarily thwoked.
THWOK!
No one who had a speccy would even dare look at, let alone BUY a commy 16.. shame on you!
Ahem. Saying that, speccy owners who bought Amigas, I take it back.. they rocked! (and they still do!)- but not if you bought the one that looked like a door stop...
Bah, your m8 was an amateur. My mate could tell what type of loading encryption was used just by listening to the noise.
Then again, he was considered a bit of a 1337 in those days.
Ahh, the pages of assembler type in from magazines, the endless fun of swapping over tapes, rewinding etc. Those were the days.
Oh, and ps, SKoolDaze, anyone?
2.1 billion books sold in the U.S. in 1995.
Gawsh thats a lota door stops, Uncle bawb..
Stop it you guys, I'm trying to work here and I keep laughing :((
I agree. What WOULD make me want to switch - and I would do it immediately - is if they made retail games cross platform. (I know, I know, I'm a sad gamer.. please, spare me). Not neccesarily in a cross platform language but ~developed~ the game on more than one platform and/or released at least the /game engines/ on all platforms. Now that would turn my head. I dont know of any games (read decent games companies) doing this of late; only some obscure second parties doing it in their spare time. If I could buy it off the shelf, I'd be much more inclined to switch.
Even if this cost me a little more cash, say 35 quid instead of 29.99 I'd be willing to do it.
Ah, what a nice dream that would be.
damn these stupid < and > thingys :(
that prolly happend to you too.. soz
#include <stdio.h>
is what it should be
Was it #include the header you were looking for?? tut tut, and i didnt even use a manual.
erm
"The names of other companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners."
This includes Linus and Co.
Microsoft may do fud, but they dont do stupid fud.
I thought that was the hidden directive of Robocop, or a form of it...
:)
eh. What do I know.. ?
So why make them glow then?
.
~matt~
0
o
><>
Did no one else find this funny?
.
Mod him up, boys!
ahem. and girls of course.
~matt~
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http://www.matessa.org/~mike/dutil/p8.html
.
"And this, Mr Alien, shows you just how memory intesive Windows is..."
~matt~
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o
><>
Did grey goo scenarios come to anyone elses mind?
.
What if these little ants really are buggy?
Hmm. Perhaps we aught to get some AI Ant eaters ready just incase...
~matt~
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o
><>
We should just send all the Game Show hosts (and contestants (ptooe)), Telephone sanitisers, Hairdressers and lawyers into space.
:)
.
We could tell them about a wonderful new life on a far and distant planet, and then leave them there all on their own.
Hmm.. Sounds like something out of Hitch Hikers guide to the galaxy
Oh wait..
~matt~
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Ace. Never thought I'd see a real one, all I've seen are theoretical papers on search and rescue AI agents.
:)
.
Now all they've got to do is to get a group of marvins to flock, communicate and co-operate in there environments. Now that I'd like to see
~matt~
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o
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Interesting stuff innit?
:)
.
Theres been an interesting series running on the BBC about the miraculous abilities of the body, superhuman, and one of those episodes was about stem cells.
Apparently, these stem cells "know" what cells need replacing and change themselves into them. Even spinal cords can be replaced this way, although its like joining wires at random.
If you think about it, joining nerves at random should work -- the brain should be able to relearn to use new wiring as it's a neural system, it would just take some time and patience.
Fascinating
~matt~
0
o
><>
I'm sorry for stooping to this, but you really dont understand what you are talking about.
.
I used VB to create an app. I admit it. As a developer fairly new into industry back then, we as a team decided VB was the language of choice for some of the reasons you mentioned. The repercussions were terrible. Spagetti. Nuff said.
VB = Mountain of Hacks (tm) and thats being nice.
As for what they've done to C++, dont even go there.
~matt~
0
o
><>
Erm.. heh
.
Problem being, that once you get it out of the tires its no longer compressed now is it?
(ps who moded croakers post to 2 without giving it funny -- shoot them!)
~matt~
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