link failed... I'd edit it to fix it, but slashdot has better data integrity then the US state department. So unlike Hillery, I can't edit my message after the fact.
The irony of this should be figuratively lethal...
None of that happened. She also likely destroyed email which is an outright felony. Period. And was before she took office, was during, and is still now.
I believe the sentence is 3 years per infraction. So... this is not going away.
She's released emails to congress. And the congressional committees said there were gaps of months between emails.
She's also admitted to deleting something like 30k emails.
Given that the DoJ has been compromised by political hacks she's in no real danger of prosecution. She could run around town wearing other people's skin and unless the executive brings charges... nothing will really happen.
The emails she releases will be gone over and what people are going to be looking for is evidence of tampering with the emails or not releasing government emails. And one easy way to do that is to find someone else's email that she did talk to with some frequency. Every email that person got from her should also be in her released emails. If they find emails in a government employee's mailbox from her that she did not release... then she's in violation. Each incident carries a 3 year felony conviction.
Will that happen? Obviously not. Again, she could run around town wearing someone's else's skin. She's untouchable.
But it is potentially a powerful argument against her getting either the nomination or actually elected.
hmm... the collapse of Rome meant about 1500 years of lost knowledge. We didn't really catch up with their tech until until 1800s. Which sounds absurd but they had a lot of things that are not often associated with them.
Point being... A systemic collapse of the US could lead to a global world war as rival powers fill the power vacuum. That will probably lead to a nuclear war... and really a massive loss of knowledge and capability is quite likely if everything except the third world is nuked.
And that is ignoring the massive causalities. The US is not just any nation. It goes down and the whole western hegemony comes unraveled.
Keeping it secret will be worse... unless she has something to hide.
You are afforded the presumption of innocence in a court of law. Public opinion is not a court of law.
She's going to savaged in the primary at the very least for this and when it comes to the main election... if she gets that far she's going to get this question asked again and again.
And because she didn't disclose the emails... what they contained is left up to everyone's imagination.
You'd do far better to release them now. The sooner the better. Refusing to do so causes people to make the worst possible assumptions.
And is that wrong for both republicans and democrats to do that or would you like the new rules to be that government officials can just hide all official correspondence?
She has the votes of anyone that wants a (D) after the name of the candidate.
At this point, the only people that can deal with the corruption are other democrats. And if this thread is any indication, all they want to do is win. They don't really care who they put in office or what the do once they get there so long as their side wins.
Sort of sad. We'll see what happens. Hopefully the democrats primary someone better than her so she at least isn't up for the presidential election.
I don't need this slime ball in jail. She probably deserves to be there. She has a long history of unethical behavior. However, what is most important is that she not attain high office again.
I'm okay with an ethical politician getting into office either republican or democrat. I don't care which party they come from. They're both fine. I'm just tired of unethical liars getting the nomination.
No, the distinction you're talking about is whether she had to use the government system or not. It was strongly suggested as of 2005. However, she was permitted to use her own system so long as the government was given all the official emails.
If she either does not turn over official emails or deletes them, then she has effectively destroyed a government record. And that IS illegal and it WAS illegal then as well.
There are gaps of MONTHS in her records. She is either withholding official emails from those periods or has deleted them... Or are you saying the head of the state department didn't send any emails for months?
That's just an argument to preserve that as well. The diskspace required to maintain all her phone calls for her entire tenure in office is not that great if you use some compression. You're looking at something like 100kb per minute in most cases. Assuming she makes 4000 minutes of GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL phone calls month you're looking at less then 5 gigs of sound files per YEAR. Which for a member of the cabinet is not a big deal.
Text messages could be retained indefinitely.
And to ensure that information is stored in this system, we could have it be a requirement that certain orders are not valid unless they route through one of these systems. That is, the government official cannot use their official power unless their directive routes through a recorded system.
So yeah, I agree... we should expand this well beyond email.
It would be no big deal for the government to run the phone numbers of the top 2000 or so government officials through an IP/PBX system that recorded every call.
Again, you're talking about at MOST something like 5 gigs a year per person. And likely a good deal less than that.
If we did this for 2000 people you're talking about 10 terabytes of calls per year for that whole system. I could personally afford that kind of storage for myself per year... so I don't see why the US federal government would have any trouble with that. And you wouldn't have to retain that indefinitely... just for ten years or something. So you're looking at 100 terabytes total over a ten year period.
It would settle the issue very quickly. What is the problem? That some investigator will see her talking about personal matters? What could possibly be that private?
And really, if she wanted specific email recipients to be redacted that would be fine. So turn over the whole thing, and then we can copy off all the emails EXCEPT those sent to a list of addresses she specifies. Her husband, her daughter, etc. Everything else gets entered into records.
If she wanted to keep the two separate, then she should have used the government address.
People are willing to be reasonable. But expecting us to give Hillery the benefit of the doubt in an investigation... to just accept "trust me"... is not acceptable. That is not how this works.
Yes, and that was bad... and the democrats rightly pointed that out and the rules were changed.
Regardless, if she doesn't turn over all the government emails then she's committing a felony.
There are gaps in the released emails that are MONTHS wide. Think about that. There is no way that as the head of the state department she didn't send email for months.
Actually it wasn't. Under the rules you're citing she could do it if she retained the records. There is no evidence that she did that.
The email that she turned over for investigation includes gaps that are MONTHS wide. For your statement to be correct, you'd have to be making the argument that the head of the state department sent no official emails for months.
How likely is that?
It isn't. And if she either doesn't turn over those emails or deleted them then that is destroying government records which is a felony.
That's fine. So you agree it shouldn't be done. Or should the next republican administration filter all federal government correspondence through the RNC?
Choose.
Is this okay or not? You can't have it both ways.
I'm not defending the republicans. I'm pointing out that your girl is a slime ball. She's a slime ball regardless of anyone else.
Given that the executive would have to be involved and the executive is not cooperating with any corruption investigation... that is a moot point.
What is more, the independent investigators have effectively been disbanded. So there is no possibility of trial or investigation because the people responsible for doing that either won't do it or were fired.
What we want is for every order they give, every memo they send, every phone call they send, every text they send, etc... to be recorded.
And for top level brass... Of which there are less than 100 in the whole country. I'm talking about joint chiefs, heads of departments, etc... I want their offices to have microphones.
When will any of this information come out? If there is an investigation.
We have a right to know. I don't want their private emails. I don't want their private phone conversations. I don't want their houses bugged. What I do want is all official business recorded. So if they do something bad... I don't hear "we'll look into it". Fuck that. I want to query a neutral third party for the records. I want to get those records in 24 hours. And then I want the relevant congress people or judges to look the government official in the eye and say "it says that on this day you did the thing you said you didn't. How do you explain the fact that you lied to his committee two days ago?"
That is how it should work and there is no technical reason why it couldn't.
I don't want google glass. I want the emails, memos, official meetings, etc recorded.
My local city council records the minutes of its deliberations. If any shit stick town can do it, then so can the federal government at its highest level.
Regardless, she's on record saying she doesn't like email because she doesn't want to get audited.
And she's on record saying the system was put in so Bill Clinton could use it... even though bill clinton doesn't use email.
And an ambassador in the state department lost his job for doing something LESS serious than what she did. He was running a personal server INSIDE the embassy instead of at his home.
The double standards are incredible. Both Obama and Hillary have attacked other politicians for doing the same thing. And now... she's doing it. Which means her protests against other people were what?
Slashdot Mirror
... This is a sad situation.
link failed... I'd edit it to fix it, but slashdot has better data integrity then the US state department. So unlike Hillery, I can't edit my message after the fact.
The irony of this should be figuratively lethal...
http://download.gamespotcdn.ne...
""must ensure that federal records sent or received on such systems are preserved in the appropriate agency recordkeeping system.""
Must ensure
Federal records
send or received
are preserved
in the appropriate agency recordkeeping system.
http://download.gamespotcdn.net/d4/user_images/907/englishdoyouspeakitdemotivationalposter_2.jpg/
None of that happened. She also likely destroyed email which is an outright felony. Period. And was before she took office, was during, and is still now.
I believe the sentence is 3 years per infraction. So... this is not going away.
I don't want an AR 15... but I'd print a nice looking metal handgun.
She's released emails to congress. And the congressional committees said there were gaps of months between emails.
She's also admitted to deleting something like 30k emails.
Given that the DoJ has been compromised by political hacks she's in no real danger of prosecution. She could run around town wearing other people's skin and unless the executive brings charges... nothing will really happen.
The emails she releases will be gone over and what people are going to be looking for is evidence of tampering with the emails or not releasing government emails. And one easy way to do that is to find someone else's email that she did talk to with some frequency. Every email that person got from her should also be in her released emails. If they find emails in a government employee's mailbox from her that she did not release... then she's in violation. Each incident carries a 3 year felony conviction.
Will that happen? Obviously not. Again, she could run around town wearing someone's else's skin. She's untouchable.
But it is potentially a powerful argument against her getting either the nomination or actually elected.
... I don't see the point really.
Yep.
Best we can hope for is ensuring that she's not credible in Washington anymore.
hmm... the collapse of Rome meant about 1500 years of lost knowledge. We didn't really catch up with their tech until until 1800s. Which sounds absurd but they had a lot of things that are not often associated with them.
Point being... A systemic collapse of the US could lead to a global world war as rival powers fill the power vacuum. That will probably lead to a nuclear war... and really a massive loss of knowledge and capability is quite likely if everything except the third world is nuked.
And that is ignoring the massive causalities. The US is not just any nation. It goes down and the whole western hegemony comes unraveled.
She's only in trouble if prosecuted. Given that the DoJ is not cooperating with anything, I don't see how she's possibly going to suffer legally.
The best anyone can do is annihilate her political career.
Keeping it secret will be worse... unless she has something to hide.
You are afforded the presumption of innocence in a court of law. Public opinion is not a court of law.
She's going to savaged in the primary at the very least for this and when it comes to the main election... if she gets that far she's going to get this question asked again and again.
And because she didn't disclose the emails... what they contained is left up to everyone's imagination.
You'd do far better to release them now. The sooner the better. Refusing to do so causes people to make the worst possible assumptions.
In what way does 512bit blowfish encryption not work?
Hard to keep your story straight when you've told so many lies.
The republic will eventually collapse if it doesn't stop.
You can't sustain a society like ours if the democracy ultimately becomes a sham and due process ceases to happen.
We might carry on like this for a couple hundred more years... but at some point the rot will become toxic and the whole system will kill itself.
And is that wrong for both republicans and democrats to do that or would you like the new rules to be that government officials can just hide all official correspondence?
Choose motherfucker. Is it wrong or not?
Then accept your choice... chew and swallow.
She has the votes of anyone that wants a (D) after the name of the candidate.
At this point, the only people that can deal with the corruption are other democrats. And if this thread is any indication, all they want to do is win. They don't really care who they put in office or what the do once they get there so long as their side wins.
Sort of sad. We'll see what happens. Hopefully the democrats primary someone better than her so she at least isn't up for the presidential election.
I don't need this slime ball in jail. She probably deserves to be there. She has a long history of unethical behavior. However, what is most important is that she not attain high office again.
I'm okay with an ethical politician getting into office either republican or democrat. I don't care which party they come from. They're both fine. I'm just tired of unethical liars getting the nomination.
No, the distinction you're talking about is whether she had to use the government system or not. It was strongly suggested as of 2005. However, she was permitted to use her own system so long as the government was given all the official emails.
If she either does not turn over official emails or deletes them, then she has effectively destroyed a government record. And that IS illegal and it WAS illegal then as well.
There are gaps of MONTHS in her records. She is either withholding official emails from those periods or has deleted them... Or are you saying the head of the state department didn't send any emails for months?
That's just an argument to preserve that as well. The diskspace required to maintain all her phone calls for her entire tenure in office is not that great if you use some compression. You're looking at something like 100kb per minute in most cases. Assuming she makes 4000 minutes of GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL phone calls month you're looking at less then 5 gigs of sound files per YEAR. Which for a member of the cabinet is not a big deal.
Text messages could be retained indefinitely.
And to ensure that information is stored in this system, we could have it be a requirement that certain orders are not valid unless they route through one of these systems. That is, the government official cannot use their official power unless their directive routes through a recorded system.
So yeah, I agree... we should expand this well beyond email.
It would be no big deal for the government to run the phone numbers of the top 2000 or so government officials through an IP/PBX system that recorded every call.
Again, you're talking about at MOST something like 5 gigs a year per person. And likely a good deal less than that.
If we did this for 2000 people you're talking about 10 terabytes of calls per year for that whole system. I could personally afford that kind of storage for myself per year... so I don't see why the US federal government would have any trouble with that. And you wouldn't have to retain that indefinitely... just for ten years or something. So you're looking at 100 terabytes total over a ten year period.
That is nominal.
Really she should just turn the server over.
It would settle the issue very quickly. What is the problem? That some investigator will see her talking about personal matters? What could possibly be that private?
And really, if she wanted specific email recipients to be redacted that would be fine. So turn over the whole thing, and then we can copy off all the emails EXCEPT those sent to a list of addresses she specifies. Her husband, her daughter, etc. Everything else gets entered into records.
If she wanted to keep the two separate, then she should have used the government address.
People are willing to be reasonable. But expecting us to give Hillery the benefit of the doubt in an investigation... to just accept "trust me"... is not acceptable. That is not how this works.
Yes, and that was bad... and the democrats rightly pointed that out and the rules were changed.
Regardless, if she doesn't turn over all the government emails then she's committing a felony.
There are gaps in the released emails that are MONTHS wide. Think about that. There is no way that as the head of the state department she didn't send email for months.
Actually it wasn't. Under the rules you're citing she could do it if she retained the records. There is no evidence that she did that.
The email that she turned over for investigation includes gaps that are MONTHS wide. For your statement to be correct, you'd have to be making the argument that the head of the state department sent no official emails for months.
How likely is that?
It isn't. And if she either doesn't turn over those emails or deleted them then that is destroying government records which is a felony.
period.
That's fine. So you agree it shouldn't be done. Or should the next republican administration filter all federal government correspondence through the RNC?
Choose.
Is this okay or not? You can't have it both ways.
I'm not defending the republicans. I'm pointing out that your girl is a slime ball. She's a slime ball regardless of anyone else.
Given that the executive would have to be involved and the executive is not cooperating with any corruption investigation... that is a moot point.
What is more, the independent investigators have effectively been disbanded. So there is no possibility of trial or investigation because the people responsible for doing that either won't do it or were fired.
What we want is for every order they give, every memo they send, every phone call they send, every text they send, etc... to be recorded.
And for top level brass... Of which there are less than 100 in the whole country. I'm talking about joint chiefs, heads of departments, etc... I want their offices to have microphones.
When will any of this information come out? If there is an investigation.
We have a right to know. I don't want their private emails. I don't want their private phone conversations. I don't want their houses bugged. What I do want is all official business recorded. So if they do something bad... I don't hear "we'll look into it". Fuck that. I want to query a neutral third party for the records. I want to get those records in 24 hours. And then I want the relevant congress people or judges to look the government official in the eye and say "it says that on this day you did the thing you said you didn't. How do you explain the fact that you lied to his committee two days ago?"
That is how it should work and there is no technical reason why it couldn't.
I don't want google glass. I want the emails, memos, official meetings, etc recorded.
My local city council records the minutes of its deliberations. If any shit stick town can do it, then so can the federal government at its highest level.
The guilde lines were instituted in 2005. So... you're wrong.
That's not accurate. The policies were changed.
Regardless, she's on record saying she doesn't like email because she doesn't want to get audited.
And she's on record saying the system was put in so Bill Clinton could use it... even though bill clinton doesn't use email.
And an ambassador in the state department lost his job for doing something LESS serious than what she did. He was running a personal server INSIDE the embassy instead of at his home.
The double standards are incredible. Both Obama and Hillary have attacked other politicians for doing the same thing. And now... she's doing it. Which means her protests against other people were what?
You're defending a slime ball. Just fyi.