Look, say whatever you want about any politician or any issue. But you don't make an argument like this...
Saying "gone are the days when you can operate as a singular nation" needs to be explained. First, you'd have to say that anyone is actually suggesting such a thing. Second, whether people are doing that or not doesn't mean that is or is not a good or reasonable idea.
My experience differs. What is more, the issue is not what is and is not legal.
This is not an issue with the FDA This is not an issue with the DEA This is not an issue with the ATF
This is rather an issue about freedom of association. I have the freedom to associate with whomever I want to because contrary to what some people seem to want... this remains a free country.
The argument that companies can't find enough people with some qualification or another has been a drum beat on Slashdot for years. And whilst the people here are generally wise enough to see that most of this is thinly veiled justifications for the standing status quo regarding outsourcing and H1B visas... when it comes to their drugs... users are rarely rational or outwardly aware.
If users want to flip out. They can do that. Fucks given shall remain low here.
I'd happily respond to all these idiots if it weren't that this site has very heavy flood protection enabled on it. So I'm not going to bother. But that isn't because I don't have a rebuttal. It is because the site is set up to stop people from responding to a gaggle of idiots.
A better system would be to make the flood protection symmetrical. That is, only X number of people can respond to a post and then that person can respond to those people. To say that any given person in any context is only permitted X posts per minute or hour or whatever whilst allowing them to be spammed with this crap... It just means a response is literally impossible. And that's fine. I'll just roll my eyes and move on.
Quiet a few legal drugs will show up on a drug test. Legally proscribed methamphetamines will show up. As will legally proscribed opiates, etc.
Does the test cover everything?
You're now arguing with a computer person on an IT forum that because perfect screening is impossible no screening should be used?
Sigh.
As to things slipping past me... naturally nothing is perfect. But when I've noticed impaired judgement its turned out to be drugs basically every single fucking time. I've seen it destroy companies and take down the careers of coworkers as collateral. I don't have to tolerate it if I detect it and I won't.
Depending on your definition of regular. A heart beat that randomly beat so many times a minute would not be considered regular. A car engine that fired its pistons a random number of times per minute would not be regular. A backup system that randomly backed up at some time during a month would probably not be considered regular.
You can move the goal post if you want. But I remember where I put it. So its pretty pointless. Your rhetorical tactic works on stupid people with a poor attention span and a poor memory. I have neither. So... try something that isn't exclusively capable of failing.
Yes, the incompetent Americans... says the guy on a US website, probably using a US operating system, on a CPU designed by Americans... etc etc etc.
Tell me the country in Europe you're from so we can compare penis length and girth.
You say "Europe" as if that's a country or a culture or a people. The EU is dead. So this idea of cultural europe which you were probably fed at some point but which was never realized is already a failed project.
And as to your point about importing people. I'm pointing out that the "we can't find people to pass the drug test" line is yet another in a long list of stupid claims made to justify a corrupt immigration scheme. The pot heads are reliable in their gullibility as regards their drug. And thus I am bombarded by a blizzard of idiots.
So... sharing an opinion, observation, belief, etc is not acceptable unless I'm prepared to bow to the first gaggle of idiots that contradicts it with arguments EVERYONE is already aware of and I've demonstrably found unconvincing?
Look, I have my life experiences. I've seen a lot of dodgy behavior from people and the correlation between said behavior and drug use is very very high. Even if A doesn't cause B... in my experience the correlation between the factors is so strong that it doesn't matter in practice.
I'm not a court of law. I am not telling you what to do or how to live your life. You do what you want to do.
I don't find people that use the galaxy of ever expanding recreational drugs to be reliable. They are frequently emotionally immature, have short attention spans, poor memories, a poor attention to detail, and a frequently shitty attitude when it comes to getting things done.
My personal anecdotal experience leads me to this general conclusion. Could I be wrong? My life experiences say otherwise. What could you possibly say in the face of that?
Each of us personally trusts these experiences more than anything else. You trust yours and I wouldn't fault you for whatever that is... what else do we as individuals have to go on here in our lives? In my life, this is what I've seen. Maybe I'm wrong. It works for me.
By all means, think I'm a shit if you like. I won't hold it against you. I've been burned and seen friends burned too many times by people that were off their nut on one drug or another. I don't have any patience for it anymore. You do what you want to do. I can't stop you and I wouldn't presume to stop you. By the same token, I would naturally expect you to afford me the same opportunity to do what I feel is best for myself and those I am responsible for managing.
We all do what we think is reasonable. To me, this seems like the most reasonable thing to do.
There are plenty of people that agree with you. You go work with them. I will not pollute my workplace with your nonsense.
Every drug user thinks they are fine or better while under the influence. Its the nature of addiction. The opinions of such people concerning themselves or matters relating to their addictions is biased to the point of uselessness.
You do what you want to do. You do anything you want to do. I don't care. Inject, snort, smoke, or swallow whatever you want.
I am not the one pushing to have your addictions made illegal. I believe in freedom of choice.
That includes MY choices. And I choose to not associate with it. That is MY choice.
You do what you want to do. I will do what I want to do.
Okay... so again, your argument is that I'm being too lenient because apparently I'm a hypocrite unless I also do your laundry list of things like regulate what food they eat or control several other drugs that you presume I don't care about because you didn't listen to what I said when I said I don't care what is and is not legal.
Whatever. You do what you want to do. I will do what I want to do.
Which is why the article is whining about the set threshold.
Right? Does the drug threshold only apply to burger flippers or are you wrong?
Wrong.
What is doubly sad is that you don't realize this entire thing is just a pretext for them to claim they need more H1B visas. They're not going to hire you idiots. All they're going to do is whine about how they can't find US workers and then import more Indians or whatever. You lack the awareness to be more than a pawn.
Pushing for lower standards is just going to mean lower standards.
You know literally nothing about how I conduct myself in the work place or in interpersonal relationships beyond some posts on an internet forum.
If you knew ANYTHING about the internet then you'd know how utterly useless such a metric was for determining something about people.
I am friendly, personable, hardworking, honest, and competent. You don't know anything about me. Yet you presume to throw out a stupid ad hominem which you have no ability to back up with any material knowledge.
You think I sound mean so what I'm saying is wrong?
So going by YOUR system, can I assume that in person you could reliably be a sophist or someone that lacks knowledge of basic logic?
I wouldn't presume you're a liar or an idiot. But I would have to conclude that if I took your statement to be demonstrative of your day to day conduct.
I'm sensitive about my personality. I know I'm a good guy and can empirically validate that in my life by the way that people interact with me. Your presumption to project your nonsense on to me is utterly rhetorically infantile. Try again.
What is and is not relevant is up to the person that writes the checks.
End of story.
And because an employee is not a slave, they are not obligated to work under conditions they do not want to work... quitting is an option.
End of story.
You should have the freedom to do whatever you want to yourself. Anything. I do not care. Anything.
I have the right to employ whomever I want for whatever reason. And I have the right to work with or not with whomever I want. I exercise this right by simply not hiring people if I don't want to and I can naturally quit any job. Any law or regulation you could possibly attempt to stop me from doing this would be about as effective as an anti suicide law or really the laws that presume to stop you from getting high. How is the drug war going? Utter failure? Great. Keep in mind that it fails because it presumes to stop people from doing what they want to themselves. In the case of employment or working conditions... I can not hire people if I want to not hire people. I can fire people if I want to fire people. I can hire people if I want to hire people. And as to where I work... I can apply for jobs and quit jobs.
I have my opinions whatever you think of them and I can do what I want. The same philosophy that permits you to shoot up when you feel like it is the same one that will permit me to associate with whomever I want to associate with.
Sure, from the same people that tell you that is why they need H1B visas. Only you're too stupid to realize this is another dumb trial balloon they're floating to keep business as usual going.
US workers won't do this work. US workers aren't qualified to do this work. US workers don't meet our diversity quotas. US workers are too high to pass a drug test.
Your rebuttal is that I'm being too lenient? Seriously... the lack of fundamental logic from the torrent of stupid potheads in this thread is comical. I was trying to throw you people a bone. Apparently you run on the "give them an inch and they'll rape your sister" model of negotiations? Noted.
You guys are validating my position by either regurgitating the same tired arguments that any teenaged stoner will recite verbatim or demonstrating just appalling reasoning ability. I mean, pot isn't a space spore that is trying to colonize the minds of humanity as part of an intergalactic conquest scheme... but it would make more sense if it were.
Yes. You test doctors for legal drugs that effect their performance as surgeons. There are many legally proscribed drugs that make it illegal to drive or do all sorts of other things. A doctor on a heavy dose of legally proscribed opiates should not be doing operations.
This is not a mistake. I don't care about what the ATF or the DEA says. I'm not the federal government and the same old tired pothead arguments are not of interest to me. I've heard them all before and you're speaking at cross purposes.
My point is not to stop you from getting high. Get high. I don't care what you inject into yourself. Legalize all drugs. Literally anything. What is legal or illegal is not relevant to me.
My interest is what I am willing to accept in my work place. I will not accept "this". And I will act on this basis. End of story.
Any mine in the field you want to lay won't matter to me because I know where those fuckers are buried and a legal or rhetorical minefield is meaningless if I know where all the mines are buried and have the sense of mind to not step on any of them. I will go from point A to point B in the most efficient manner possible evading the specific mines blocking my path. At best you'll slow me down by seconds. You'll waste more of your time laying them than you'll waste of mine evading them. Create a system where I have to be a sociopath to avoid your bullshit and you'll find me doing what I do with a smile, a whistle, and not a fucking care in the world.
Proscribed drugs count if they impair judgment. Same goes for anything. You want to argue the unfairness of the DEA or ATF? I am not the federal government. I don't care how many things you can make out of hemp. The entire pro pot rant is like the screeching of the same fucking retarded parrot to me. You want to get high? Get high. I won't stop you. In my opinion, you have a right to get as high as you want on ANYTHING you want. And I think you have a right to it as often as you want.
What I am saying is that I have a right to employ who I want, on the criteria I want, and work with whomever I please. And should those criteria not be met, I reserve my right to not cooperate. What is more, you cannot stop me. Bypassing the most strict labor laws that might restrict some really only restrict those too stupid and lacking in creativity to bypass them. I am neither stupid nor lacking in creativity. Those regulations are powerless. And what is more they only apply to employers. My terms extend to coworkers and employers. I won't tolerate it if having sound judgement matters. And in anything important... sound judgement matters.
You cannot force me to employ you. You cannot force me to work with you. You cannot force me to work for you.
And absent that force... you have no ability to resist any criteria I deem valid.
You have the right to do what you want to do. In my opinion at least, you can do whatever you want. I really don't care what you do to yourself. If you want to inject bleach into your eyeballs I'll sell you the needle and bleach. Do it. Whatever that is. I have the right to do what I want to do. What I want to do is not spend my time dealing with giggling assholes that fuck up everything they touch.
The pothead arguments bore me. I've heard all of them before and I hold this opinion. Surprise me. Tell me something I haven't heard before or confirm my bias.
Pass the drug tests and I'll stay oblivious. Fail them and you'll lose that defense... I set the mercy threshold for what is acceptable in the job. If you want the big money the threshold will be very low. If you are happy taking hope dick for pay... then the threshold will be more forgiving.
I actually require the tests for people that work with me. Drugs that effect mental processes... Effect mental processes. They impair judgement in my experience and make people unreliable.
You can have such people in positions where having poor judgement and unreliable performance is acceptable. It is not acceptable in jobs where you want people to be on their game.
Riddle me this... do you want your heart surgeon on mind effecting drugs?
Boom. People say that people should allow these things in other contexts because they judge the relevance of doing a good job as lower than the high the employee gets.
That's possibly fine in some jobs. I probably don't care if the guy flipping my burgers or whatever is high. If however they're doing something where quality of work is critical... I will not tolerate this behavior.
People will understand when I put this qualification on pilots and doctors. But really any job where fucking up is not acceptable is on the list.
Don't like it? Don't care. I will not hire you. I will not let you work for me. I will not let you work with me. And I will not work for you. The consequences effect everyone related to the person when things matter.
Yes... if things don't matter then things don't matter. But they often do. And when they do matter then it is unacceptable.
Slashdot Mirror
Well, there are several countries in Europe that are not in the EU. They don't appear to suffer for it.
Statement
Statement
Statement
Conclusion?
Look, say whatever you want about any politician or any issue. But you don't make an argument like this...
Saying "gone are the days when you can operate as a singular nation" needs to be explained. First, you'd have to say that anyone is actually suggesting such a thing. Second, whether people are doing that or not doesn't mean that is or is not a good or reasonable idea.
Meh.
My experience differs. What is more, the issue is not what is and is not legal.
This is not an issue with the FDA
This is not an issue with the DEA
This is not an issue with the ATF
This is rather an issue about freedom of association. I have the freedom to associate with whomever I want to because contrary to what some people seem to want... this remains a free country.
The argument that companies can't find enough people with some qualification or another has been a drum beat on Slashdot for years. And whilst the people here are generally wise enough to see that most of this is thinly veiled justifications for the standing status quo regarding outsourcing and H1B visas... when it comes to their drugs... users are rarely rational or outwardly aware.
If users want to flip out. They can do that. Fucks given shall remain low here.
I'd happily respond to all these idiots if it weren't that this site has very heavy flood protection enabled on it. So I'm not going to bother. But that isn't because I don't have a rebuttal. It is because the site is set up to stop people from responding to a gaggle of idiots.
A better system would be to make the flood protection symmetrical. That is, only X number of people can respond to a post and then that person can respond to those people. To say that any given person in any context is only permitted X posts per minute or hour or whatever whilst allowing them to be spammed with this crap... It just means a response is literally impossible. And that's fine. I'll just roll my eyes and move on.
I do. Anyone that uses it enough that it can be detected won't be tolerated either.
Quiet a few legal drugs will show up on a drug test. Legally proscribed methamphetamines will show up. As will legally proscribed opiates, etc.
Does the test cover everything?
You're now arguing with a computer person on an IT forum that because perfect screening is impossible no screening should be used?
Sigh.
As to things slipping past me... naturally nothing is perfect. But when I've noticed impaired judgement its turned out to be drugs basically every single fucking time. I've seen it destroy companies and take down the careers of coworkers as collateral. I don't have to tolerate it if I detect it and I won't.
Depending on your definition of regular. A heart beat that randomly beat so many times a minute would not be considered regular. A car engine that fired its pistons a random number of times per minute would not be regular. A backup system that randomly backed up at some time during a month would probably not be considered regular.
You can move the goal post if you want. But I remember where I put it. So its pretty pointless. Your rhetorical tactic works on stupid people with a poor attention span and a poor memory. I have neither. So... try something that isn't exclusively capable of failing.
Yes, the incompetent Americans... says the guy on a US website, probably using a US operating system, on a CPU designed by Americans... etc etc etc.
Tell me the country in Europe you're from so we can compare penis length and girth.
You say "Europe" as if that's a country or a culture or a people. The EU is dead. So this idea of cultural europe which you were probably fed at some point but which was never realized is already a failed project.
And as to your point about importing people. I'm pointing out that the "we can't find people to pass the drug test" line is yet another in a long list of stupid claims made to justify a corrupt immigration scheme. The pot heads are reliable in their gullibility as regards their drug. And thus I am bombarded by a blizzard of idiots.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pini...
You're a meme and don't know it.
So... sharing an opinion, observation, belief, etc is not acceptable unless I'm prepared to bow to the first gaggle of idiots that contradicts it with arguments EVERYONE is already aware of and I've demonstrably found unconvincing?
Look, I have my life experiences. I've seen a lot of dodgy behavior from people and the correlation between said behavior and drug use is very very high. Even if A doesn't cause B... in my experience the correlation between the factors is so strong that it doesn't matter in practice.
I'm not a court of law. I am not telling you what to do or how to live your life. You do what you want to do.
I don't find people that use the galaxy of ever expanding recreational drugs to be reliable. They are frequently emotionally immature, have short attention spans, poor memories, a poor attention to detail, and a frequently shitty attitude when it comes to getting things done.
My personal anecdotal experience leads me to this general conclusion. Could I be wrong? My life experiences say otherwise. What could you possibly say in the face of that?
Each of us personally trusts these experiences more than anything else. You trust yours and I wouldn't fault you for whatever that is... what else do we as individuals have to go on here in our lives? In my life, this is what I've seen. Maybe I'm wrong. It works for me.
By all means, think I'm a shit if you like. I won't hold it against you. I've been burned and seen friends burned too many times by people that were off their nut on one drug or another. I don't have any patience for it anymore. You do what you want to do. I can't stop you and I wouldn't presume to stop you. By the same token, I would naturally expect you to afford me the same opportunity to do what I feel is best for myself and those I am responsible for managing.
We all do what we think is reasonable. To me, this seems like the most reasonable thing to do.
Regular? Not needed. A couple times randomly in the year? Yep.
And for you, nothing but nixon futurama videos now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
There are plenty of people that agree with you. You go work with them. I will not pollute my workplace with your nonsense.
Every drug user thinks they are fine or better while under the influence. Its the nature of addiction. The opinions of such people concerning themselves or matters relating to their addictions is biased to the point of uselessness.
You do what you want to do. You do anything you want to do. I don't care. Inject, snort, smoke, or swallow whatever you want.
I am not the one pushing to have your addictions made illegal. I believe in freedom of choice.
That includes MY choices. And I choose to not associate with it. That is MY choice.
You do what you want to do. I will do what I want to do.
End of discussion.
Okay... so again, your argument is that I'm being too lenient because apparently I'm a hypocrite unless I also do your laundry list of things like regulate what food they eat or control several other drugs that you presume I don't care about because you didn't listen to what I said when I said I don't care what is and is not legal.
Whatever. You do what you want to do. I will do what I want to do.
End of discussion.
Which is why the article is whining about the set threshold.
Right? Does the drug threshold only apply to burger flippers or are you wrong?
Wrong.
What is doubly sad is that you don't realize this entire thing is just a pretext for them to claim they need more H1B visas. They're not going to hire you idiots. All they're going to do is whine about how they can't find US workers and then import more Indians or whatever. You lack the awareness to be more than a pawn.
Pushing for lower standards is just going to mean lower standards.
You know literally nothing about how I conduct myself in the work place or in interpersonal relationships beyond some posts on an internet forum.
If you knew ANYTHING about the internet then you'd know how utterly useless such a metric was for determining something about people.
I am friendly, personable, hardworking, honest, and competent. You don't know anything about me. Yet you presume to throw out a stupid ad hominem which you have no ability to back up with any material knowledge.
You think I sound mean so what I'm saying is wrong?
So going by YOUR system, can I assume that in person you could reliably be a sophist or someone that lacks knowledge of basic logic?
I wouldn't presume you're a liar or an idiot. But I would have to conclude that if I took your statement to be demonstrative of your day to day conduct.
I'm sensitive about my personality. I know I'm a good guy and can empirically validate that in my life by the way that people interact with me. Your presumption to project your nonsense on to me is utterly rhetorically infantile. Try again.
What is and is not relevant is up to the person that writes the checks.
End of story.
And because an employee is not a slave, they are not obligated to work under conditions they do not want to work... quitting is an option.
End of story.
You should have the freedom to do whatever you want to yourself. Anything. I do not care. Anything.
I have the right to employ whomever I want for whatever reason. And I have the right to work with or not with whomever I want. I exercise this right by simply not hiring people if I don't want to and I can naturally quit any job. Any law or regulation you could possibly attempt to stop me from doing this would be about as effective as an anti suicide law or really the laws that presume to stop you from getting high. How is the drug war going? Utter failure? Great. Keep in mind that it fails because it presumes to stop people from doing what they want to themselves. In the case of employment or working conditions... I can not hire people if I want to not hire people. I can fire people if I want to fire people. I can hire people if I want to hire people. And as to where I work... I can apply for jobs and quit jobs.
I have my opinions whatever you think of them and I can do what I want. The same philosophy that permits you to shoot up when you feel like it is the same one that will permit me to associate with whomever I want to associate with.
Sure, from the same people that tell you that is why they need H1B visas. Only you're too stupid to realize this is another dumb trial balloon they're floating to keep business as usual going.
US workers won't do this work.
US workers aren't qualified to do this work.
US workers don't meet our diversity quotas.
US workers are too high to pass a drug test.
Pay attention, hippy.
https://youtu.be/-P7peu7Wy7w?t...
Typically they cost about a dollar a day per employee. Chump change.
Denying alcoholics employment is an ancient practice.
Your rebuttal is that I'm being too lenient? Seriously... the lack of fundamental logic from the torrent of stupid potheads in this thread is comical. I was trying to throw you people a bone. Apparently you run on the "give them an inch and they'll rape your sister" model of negotiations? Noted.
You guys are validating my position by either regurgitating the same tired arguments that any teenaged stoner will recite verbatim or demonstrating just appalling reasoning ability. I mean, pot isn't a space spore that is trying to colonize the minds of humanity as part of an intergalactic conquest scheme... but it would make more sense if it were.
Yes. You test doctors for legal drugs that effect their performance as surgeons. There are many legally proscribed drugs that make it illegal to drive or do all sorts of other things. A doctor on a heavy dose of legally proscribed opiates should not be doing operations.
This is not a mistake. I don't care about what the ATF or the DEA says. I'm not the federal government and the same old tired pothead arguments are not of interest to me. I've heard them all before and you're speaking at cross purposes.
My point is not to stop you from getting high. Get high. I don't care what you inject into yourself. Legalize all drugs. Literally anything. What is legal or illegal is not relevant to me.
My interest is what I am willing to accept in my work place. I will not accept "this". And I will act on this basis. End of story.
Any mine in the field you want to lay won't matter to me because I know where those fuckers are buried and a legal or rhetorical minefield is meaningless if I know where all the mines are buried and have the sense of mind to not step on any of them. I will go from point A to point B in the most efficient manner possible evading the specific mines blocking my path. At best you'll slow me down by seconds. You'll waste more of your time laying them than you'll waste of mine evading them. Create a system where I have to be a sociopath to avoid your bullshit and you'll find me doing what I do with a smile, a whistle, and not a fucking care in the world.
Proscribed drugs count if they impair judgment. Same goes for anything. You want to argue the unfairness of the DEA or ATF? I am not the federal government. I don't care how many things you can make out of hemp. The entire pro pot rant is like the screeching of the same fucking retarded parrot to me. You want to get high? Get high. I won't stop you. In my opinion, you have a right to get as high as you want on ANYTHING you want. And I think you have a right to it as often as you want.
What I am saying is that I have a right to employ who I want, on the criteria I want, and work with whomever I please. And should those criteria not be met, I reserve my right to not cooperate. What is more, you cannot stop me. Bypassing the most strict labor laws that might restrict some really only restrict those too stupid and lacking in creativity to bypass them. I am neither stupid nor lacking in creativity. Those regulations are powerless. And what is more they only apply to employers. My terms extend to coworkers and employers. I won't tolerate it if having sound judgement matters. And in anything important... sound judgement matters.
You cannot force me to employ you. You cannot force me to work with you. You cannot force me to work for you.
And absent that force... you have no ability to resist any criteria I deem valid.
You have the right to do what you want to do. In my opinion at least, you can do whatever you want. I really don't care what you do to yourself. If you want to inject bleach into your eyeballs I'll sell you the needle and bleach. Do it. Whatever that is. I have the right to do what I want to do. What I want to do is not spend my time dealing with giggling assholes that fuck up everything they touch.
The pothead arguments bore me. I've heard all of them before and I hold this opinion. Surprise me. Tell me something I haven't heard before or confirm my bias.
Pass the drug tests and I'll stay oblivious. Fail them and you'll lose that defense... I set the mercy threshold for what is acceptable in the job. If you want the big money the threshold will be very low. If you are happy taking hope dick for pay... then the threshold will be more forgiving.
Choose.
The ad hominem is coming from YOU in this thread and you are anonymous. So my point is sustained.
Good day, sir.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
I actually require the tests for people that work with me. Drugs that effect mental processes... Effect mental processes. They impair judgement in my experience and make people unreliable.
You can have such people in positions where having poor judgement and unreliable performance is acceptable. It is not acceptable in jobs where you want people to be on their game.
Riddle me this... do you want your heart surgeon on mind effecting drugs?
Boom. People say that people should allow these things in other contexts because they judge the relevance of doing a good job as lower than the high the employee gets.
That's possibly fine in some jobs. I probably don't care if the guy flipping my burgers or whatever is high. If however they're doing something where quality of work is critical... I will not tolerate this behavior.
People will understand when I put this qualification on pilots and doctors. But really any job where fucking up is not acceptable is on the list.
Don't like it? Don't care. I will not hire you. I will not let you work for me. I will not let you work with me. And I will not work for you. The consequences effect everyone related to the person when things matter.
Yes... if things don't matter then things don't matter. But they often do. And when they do matter then it is unacceptable.