1. I'm not white. And even if I were... that wouldn't matter. The people that like to use racism prop up shitty arguments are mostly on the progressive left these days.
Anyone disagrees with you, you say "RACE" or "SEX" or something else that doesn't actually matter in that situation and try to censor all opposing view points.
I reject your attempt with extreme prejudice.
2. As to vox day, i'm not letting you reduce everything to one racist dick. Rejected. What was going on was a lot bigger than him. You can't just fine one racist in a group and dismiss the whole thing.
3. As to wanting scifi to be like it was in the 1960s... that doesn't mean anything about race particularly. That is your projection.
4. As to distinctions between voting and nominations.... *laughs* they said there was brigading. That is getting dealt with. If it wasn't then you can expect them to exploit the holes left in it to make the point again until the system is reformed.
They win. The brigading which was their primary objective to stop is being made more difficult. If it isn't difficult enough, then they'll do it again until the system is fixed.
What they did was TROLL you... and they did it to force you to change a position. You see this on internet communities all the time. Some stupid rule will get put in... and someone will exploit that rule simply to show how stupid it is... and that will force the reform.
You don't like that Vox Day is a racist? Great. That gives you extra incentive to actually shut down the brigading. Do it. Shut out the evil Vox Day... and in doing so... you give the movement what it wanted which was reform.
hmmm... I think you don't appreciate how huge this is...
This is something we haven't seen since the industrial revolution or the agricultural revolution before it.
This is a big change.
Your talk about organizing and stuff... its like the hunter gatherers saying they're going to band together against the farmers. you're not going to do it.
Because by the time the farmers appear to be a threat to you it will already be too late. It starts slow... and it builds. When its small you don't take it seriously. By the time its a threat its too late.
And you're not going to get any one to follow you on the issue. You keep trying to organize.
Nope.
You need to adapt. The hunter gatherer thing was over when agriculture was developed. Done. Hunter gathererers were subordinate to them very quickly and there after despite the previous lifestyle being common for at least the previous 40 thousand years.
What I'm talking about is a paradigm shift. You can't fight it. You adapt or it will crush you.
Same thing happened in the shift to industrialism. Children starved... mothers and fathers slept in flop houses... extra room made in the building by having people hang on ropes rather than use up valuable floor space.
What was your education? What do you know of the early industrial revolution?
You're going to adapt or be pasted. Getting mad means nothing. You can't stop it.
I told you. Get to high ground or nothing can be done for you.
The emotions, the moralizing... words. The wave comes.
I want people with life sentences to work too. your parole concept isn't prison. Its parole.
Rejected.
Going through your brief attempt to be constructive... you said I need to hit 10 dollars per hour in productivity to break even in the system.
Totally obtainable. Here you say "but people are sick or old"... I'm not asking for brain surgery here and I'm not asking for 100 percent participation.
Let us say we need to hit 15 or 20 dollars an hour. Still obtainable... that would presume a certain portion of the population not participating.
We can still hit 15 to 20 dollars of productivity especially if you consider that a lot of costs for workers are things that might not need to be offered to convicts... healthcare is not something the company will have to offer that will come from the prison system. That sort of thing.
As to the rest... you basically got gun shy of the issue when you saw the numbers were obtainable.
you're still thinking like a politician... you're thinking in terms of laws and regulations? What do engineers or scientists care for that shit?
The engineers are too busy making things that WORK and the scientists are too busy unraveling the mysteries of the natural world.
Laws? *giggles*
No. You solve the issue by fixing the technological problem that creates it. Then the law becomes irrelevant because people will just do the right thing because it is superior.
Technology can solve any problem technology creates.
Contradict me. Name a problem technology created that technology can't solve.
Double dog dare you.
Technological problems can be solved with technological solutions. I don't need no stinking laws or regulations to fix it.
The carbon credits even within countries is a joke because it doesn't operate at a ZERO credit basis.
That is... you should start...everyone... at ZERO credits.
That is never how it is done. Big polluting industries start out with LOTS and everyone else starts out with nothing.
This grandfathers in polluters while fucking over competitors.
And you say you don't like carbon credits between countries, BUT if you don't assess the carbon cost of imports than you can export pollution by exporting manufacturing.
You don't solve this without a technological change that makes coal ACTUALLY less economical. Not more economical if you lie and cook the books and make shit up.
And how do you know if wind and solar is cheaper?... when china and india prefer it to coal. If they prefer coal... then coal is cheaper. Count on it.
random people? random people are deleting database records? Clearly IT people or the incompetence is even greater.
And replacing an HD is no big deal.
For one thing... was this the only drive in the machine? really? With something like this you ahve a system drive and a data drive... and what you'd do is install ANOTHER harddrive bringing us to 3... transfer all the shit from the tiny 80 gig drive to the 2 terabyte drive... and then degauss the 80 drive or otherwise sanitize it to whatever standards seem reasonable.
Honestly, that's the last place I care about internet service.
But then I sleep through all my flights. I'm really really good at it.
I get on the plane... sit with a crying baby on one side, a smelly fat guy on the other... and I flip the switch in my head that keeps me awake... and I'm out. I wake up when the landing gear touches down and groggly get off the plane.
This is literally how I fly. How do I pull off this witchcraft? I don't go to sleep the night before a flight. so when I get to the plane... I'm pretty tired... and I can reliably sleep whenever and where ever I want to sleep.
So I get on the plane... stow luggage, sit down, lights out. I'm typically asleep long before the plane even takes off.
It's marvelous. I generally wake up and have this pile of peanuts that the stewardesses gave to me when I was asleep... gives me something to munch on while the planet taxis to the gate.:D
Enron for one in case anyone is dumb enough to defend the concept. Don't be that guy. Let it die.
Also our increasingly chubby ex vice president. Happily from what I understand the 2008 credit crash killed most of his machinations.
If any of you are wondering why the wind went out of the sails of this issue... The "Bell" tolled for it and it went into the compost bin of history.
I am a big fan of environmental reform... I just want it to be REAL and EFFECTIVE... not a fucking scam to enrich assholes or get politicians elected.
If you care about your petty political parties more than the environment than you don't care about the environment in the first place.
Real change is going to involve china and india and all the other developing countries that are going to come right after them. One after the other. That is going to require a technological change. Not carbon credits. Just cold hard barrel of a loaded gun with the hammer cocked pressed against a temple... truth. This isn't something you solve by passing a law.
The problem was created by a technological change. Without coal and fossil fuel energy sources there would be no problem. The industrial revolution created a problem.
The question was quite clear: "" As to abuses, I don't see how abuses relates to revenue. ""
Explain why abuse is unavoidable. That it CAN happen is not an argument against it. You CAN get water in a submarine... however the design of the submarine mitigates the situation.
That something CAN happen does not mean that it WILL happen.
As to citing laws already on the books, then don't hand wring to me about things that are already illegal.
As to your increasingly tiresome attempts to win an argument by alluding to your greater knowledge... which mostly boils down to the common knowledge that there were problems with past programs. I generally take your knowledge lightly because it isn't anything I'm unaware of or anything that hasn't been addressed already in general. The specifics are furthermore not relevant since they add no new depth to the situation.
As to them already working... This is a statement from you so obtuse that i don't need to craft any reply beyond simply shaking my head at its citation.
As to your saying that you want to build on the experience of the past... you have offered no constructive input in this entire discussion. None.
You've just said over and over again that we can't build houses and have to live in caves. Over and over and over again.
here is how you be constructive... how do we get to a net ZERO cost structure? You say you have knowledge on the issue? here is your chance to show it. How do we mitigate the problems of the past while obtaining the stated goal.
If you say we can't... then you're saying we can't build houses and my analogy stands.
As to freedom to work = parole. No. that is release from prison. Rejected.
You're not being constructive and this wisdom you keep alluding to... we've gone over it and there's quite a bit less there than you'd need to sustain your position.
As to the relationship of the driver to the Taxi... that is up to the taxi company.
I can see it going either way.
The taxi could make someone effectively the driver for the duration of the taxi trip like a AI rental car. Or it could simply be a drone that asks people where they want to go and then you're a passenger period.
If you're a passenger... and not the owner... then the AI shouldn't recognize your authority over the police unless the owners of the taxi company want to do that. I again, feel very strongly that the owners should be in control of the car ultimately. In this case that is the taxi company.
The taxi company isn't going to want any trouble so they'll just pull over.
What I don't want is for the police to override the driving computer of a driver of a car and especially the owner.
I want them to ASK for a car to pull over. The AI will see a REQUEST by law enforcement to comply. And that message will be relayed to the driver.
If there is no one in the car... it will just pull over. If there is no one in the car that has the authorization to over rule the AI's default actions then the car will pull over.
Anyone that owns the car or has overrule privileges with the AI... should be able to ignore a police order. That doesn't mean the police will just say "oh, alright then"... it means the police are going to do what they do now. They're going to follow you around and possibly set up a road block or a spike strip to stop you. Another fun idea is to tag your car with a transponder. Fire a dart into your bumper that that emits a tracking beacon. No need for high speed chases. Just fire the dart and then drive at a safe speed. Police farther down the road will intercept. No need to maintain line of sight.
The crimes that are going to be committed with drones... so much fun.
As to abuses versus revenue... you're not answering the question. You're just being peevish now.
As to it being hard to make the labor voluntary. No it isn't. Define the difficulty. It seems very easy to do.
I have it be law that the prisoners can refuse any work for any reason at any time. And that any one that attempts to force a prisoner to do any work they don't want to do is themselves violating the law. Punishment for that would vary as reason dictates. But I don't really see what you want me to do about that?
What are you saying? That the prison officials will violate the law and force prisoners to do things they don't want to do for monetary gain? I can set up enforcement and monitoring for this issue and do it under a independent organization that would have no conflict of interest and would therefore have no reason not to monitor accurately.
Is that enough for you?
I'm quite sincere here. I want that 40 billion nullified on the budget. Gone.
And the only way that is going to happen is if the prisoners work.
We can lower that number by reducing the number of prisoners but the only way to make it VANISH entirely is to get the prisoners working.
As to getting prisoners to do maintenance at prisons... The problem I have there is that I wouldn't want them to maintain their own prison because they could intentionally do a shitty job to facilitate an escape. Its a security issue.
As to maintenance of other things... Sure. Roads... whatever. The only issue I see there is that the transit unions are going to throw a shit fit over that and I'd rather not waste political capital fighting them when it is a hard sell issue in the first place. I'd like to avoid making the implementation more complicated than it already is. So I'd like to not poach the labor of civic unions because they have enough political clout to frustrate the whole thing.
I'd want to work with them and make sure that anything we did was with their approval.... hand in glove. I don't want to fight the unions unless I need to fight them.
As to your repeated refrain that "it was done badly in the past so it can only be done badly in the future"...
Then airplanes wouldn't work... democracy wouldn't work... basically anything we've ever done had many failures as we learned what had to be managed to keep the system working properly or out to optimize it so that it worked better.
I categorically reject the notion that because something was badly implemented in the past that it cannot be properly implemented in the future. That is a very odd position to take that is entirely contrary to our understanding of how anything else works.
How many houses did we build before we learned how to build them properly? You're the guy sitting there going "well the last house sucked so we should go back to the cave"...
I know you don't like that argument... but that is my impression of your position. Your prisoner lease concept that you don't like is mired in issues of southern racial discrimination. You're talking about people that didn't recognize the humanity of the prisoners. I do. Your leasing program also didn't give prisoners choices or otherwise extorted them to do the work. I would definitely ENCOURAGE them to do the work but it would be an all carrots approach... no stick.
If the prisoner wants to stay in prison all day... eating sloppy joes... working out in the yard... shivving each other over bullshit... that's fine. He can do that if he wants. You like the status quo? Fine. You can have it if you want it.
But if a prisoner WANTS to work... then why not give him that freedom TO work? And of course, I will offer reasonable rewards for that work.
If you don't have a petty cash budget for these departments then you're idiots.
That doesn't mean your petty cash budget doesn't get audited. It means you can draw the money NOW do what you need to do... and then worry about it later.
What is more, I've personally bought things for my own organization out of my own money because I've felt confident that they'll reimburse me later.
I've never had a problem with that. I explain to whomever later on "hey I bought this for that reason and it cost this... here is a receipt"... and I get cut a check.
This guy says they can't go to Amazon to buy a new drive? yes you can.
Worst case... worst.. you're saying that you'd personally have to pay the 100 bucks a giant drive would cost out of pocket? Oooh... poor baby. I would do that if I were the IT guy running this shit show.
And if I made a regular practice of that... assuming my boss wasn't an assclown... he'd get me back some how. Maybe I get big fat bonus. Maybe I get a promotion. Maybe when they do one of those civil asset forfeitures I get a new car. I mean... you can't tell me they can't afford 100 dollars worth of something somewhere in that department. I refuse to believe they're THAT hard up for money that they can't afford a fucking harddrive.
What are you saying? You're going to storm the halls of the elites NOW and attack them?
*giggles*... you're just going to go to jail and anything you say on the matter will be taken by everyone as crazy talk...
You can't do anything now.
You have no chance of stopping this thing. Its happening.
And even if you stopped it in country X it would still happen in EVERY OTHER COUNTRY. Which would mean a lot of unfortunate things for you country because part of why this system is going to take over is because it is more efficient. Its BETTER at competing. Which means if your country isn't doing this... your country is going to be a third world country. Which means the other countries will be able to dictate terms to you the same way that first world countreis do to third world countries.
I can't seem to explain that you're trying to bargain with a tidal wave here. It doesn't care.
All you can do is get to high ground. That's what I'm suggesting you do. GET TO HIGH GROUND.
If you say you can't... then you're going to get hit with the tidal wave. Sorry.
In this scenario they're not attacking you. They're ignoring you. And because you can't live with them ignoring you, you will attack them because they have resources you need.
A mountain lion could attack deer on the same justification.
But that avoids the point that you're trying to morally justify attacking someone. You're saying it is okay to murder and rob people because "morality"... and that's fine in so far as your moral system is concerned. However, they're obviously going to defend themselves. And that's where you're going to get pasted by murder death kill bots.
As to you not being able to run a few inexpensive self replicating micro factories. I don't see why you can't do that.
Will people in cities that don't have jobs be able to sustain themselves? Probably not. But that just means they need to leave the cities. Just fucking go. You only went to the cities in teh first place to get jobs. Look at what is happening in Greece. The people are going back to the farms and back to the countryside. They are LEAVING the cities because the jobs are gone.
Okay? So i don't want to hear "I can't do these things in my tiny apartment".... if you stay in your tiny apartment with no job... you're an idiot and should practice making a face like a donut... and maybe buying some knee pads.
Once you have some space... you can get logistical independence with this technology.
And as I said... its going to be self replicating.
As to government taxes... that particular shit show is not going to last much longer.
The old system of taxation involved tariffs which worked best in the early industrial age. Then we went to a system of taxing personal income which worked best when people were getting paid. The government is going to have a hard time maintaining that system when incomes as a portion of the economy collapse.
Consider that there are many ways someone makes money or value. An open secret is that the very wealthy very very low incomes. What they have is Capital Gains. Which for them is basically the same thing only no one is paying them... they're just getting richer through investments etc.
Long story short, the taxation system needs to tax something with enough traffic to fund the government. The government has to restrain spending to what is affordable over the long term with that tax revenue. And the government has to understand that if it takes too much blood out of the donors they're going to be too weak to work properly.
So you need to tax something large enough to get your money. You need to set a budget within that revenue. And you can't take more than perhaps 25 to 30 percent of the PROFITS of that system or it will shut down and die.
We're already seeing a lot of things that are going to disrupt government control over money. Bitcoin is a bigger thing than a lot of people really understand. Bitcoin itself might not survive. But the concept of rogue crypto currencies is a thing and the government can't really stop it.
If I wanted to smuggle a lot of money from point A to point B... I'd do it in bitcoins. You can't really trace it. I can walk around with 20 million dollars worth of bitcoins in a thumb drive.
The government relies on tracking the banking system and being able to print more dollars when they run short.
What happens when much of the economy stops operating on those terms?
The whole government system you take as granted is much more fragile than you imagine.
1. by this same logic people might claim the sad puppies title for the same reason. The logic doesn't work in other applications which is a good sign it is invalid.
2. Its not a question of right or wrong... its a rejection of the notion that there aren't factional associations outside stated limited associations.
3/4. This was clearly bigger than Vox Day. Trying to boil everything down to him is inaccurate.
Look, I'll tell you again...
IT DOES NOT MATTER
It doesn't matter. Brigading happened. Both sides. Obvious. The system is being reformed to make that harder. That will prevent ANYONE from brigading again in the future in the same way.
So... Given that the Sad Puppies said their problem was undue influence on the awards and brigading for various authors on political grounds... if the rules are changed to make it harder to brigade... then the sad puppies just won.
No?
Their point was not to get certain names on ONE award. Their point was to reform the system. The system is getting reformed.
1. Owner (should have an override that can shut off the engine even if not driving) 2. Driver (If they're behind the wheel only an owner can shut them off) 3. Police (can shut off any car not being piloted or directly controlled) 4. The AI
Here is how police should work... THE SAME WAY they do with normal drivers. A police car does not shoot your engine out or something. What they do is flash their lights and tell you pull over. And you DECIDE to pull over because you don't want to be in violation of more laws.
And that is how the AI should operate. If the AI is just zipping down the road and an AI police officer pulls you over (does anyone see that coming?). The AI in your car should DECIDE to pull over. It isn't being forced to do it. I can say "HA HA YOU"LL NEVER TAKE ME ALIVE COPPER!"... but it should only do that if you told it to do that. Otherwise it should pull over like a law abiding AI.
We've all discussed to death the issue with police overrides and how hackers can use them take control of your car.
So here is the solution. Rather than just have the AI comply immediately, you can have the AI PING the cockpit or cabin and say "Police request pull over". Then you have ten seconds in the car to reject that. If you don't reject it... then the car pulls off to the side of the road. Where likely as not a friendly Securitron will roll up wearing mirrored sunglasses and tell you to respect its authoritah!
Slashdot Mirror
The "externals" can't be accurately counted or evaluated. And they don't show up on accounting sheets.
When I said "X is cheaper" I was talking about "money"
Coal... is CHEAPER... in MONEY.
The term "externals" is what you say when you want something to be more expensive but can't actually cite any of it with any clarity.
what keeps you up? the noise, the awkward body position?
1. I'm not white. And even if I were... that wouldn't matter. The people that like to use racism prop up shitty arguments are mostly on the progressive left these days.
Anyone disagrees with you, you say "RACE" or "SEX" or something else that doesn't actually matter in that situation and try to censor all opposing view points.
I reject your attempt with extreme prejudice.
2. As to vox day, i'm not letting you reduce everything to one racist dick. Rejected. What was going on was a lot bigger than him. You can't just fine one racist in a group and dismiss the whole thing.
3. As to wanting scifi to be like it was in the 1960s... that doesn't mean anything about race particularly. That is your projection.
4. As to distinctions between voting and nominations.... *laughs* they said there was brigading. That is getting dealt with. If it wasn't then you can expect them to exploit the holes left in it to make the point again until the system is reformed.
They win. The brigading which was their primary objective to stop is being made more difficult. If it isn't difficult enough, then they'll do it again until the system is fixed.
What they did was TROLL you... and they did it to force you to change a position. You see this on internet communities all the time. Some stupid rule will get put in... and someone will exploit that rule simply to show how stupid it is... and that will force the reform.
You don't like that Vox Day is a racist? Great. That gives you extra incentive to actually shut down the brigading. Do it. Shut out the evil Vox Day... and in doing so... you give the movement what it wanted which was reform.
it's checkmate.
Game over. The brigading is done.
What did I say that justified that response? Go over my post and quote the bit that justified you calling me a troll?
I note you also made me a foe for no reason.
You're blaming the messenger, sport. You make me sad.
better idea then jamming increasingly bigger diodes up our assets in the hope of that making any difference at all.
as I said, the prices are not competitive. never trust an unlisted price.
hmmm... I think you don't appreciate how huge this is...
This is something we haven't seen since the industrial revolution or the agricultural revolution before it.
This is a big change.
Your talk about organizing and stuff... its like the hunter gatherers saying they're going to band together against the farmers. you're not going to do it.
Because by the time the farmers appear to be a threat to you it will already be too late. It starts slow... and it builds. When its small you don't take it seriously. By the time its a threat its too late.
And you're not going to get any one to follow you on the issue. You keep trying to organize.
Nope.
You need to adapt. The hunter gatherer thing was over when agriculture was developed. Done. Hunter gathererers were subordinate to them very quickly and there after despite the previous lifestyle being common for at least the previous 40 thousand years.
What I'm talking about is a paradigm shift. You can't fight it. You adapt or it will crush you.
Same thing happened in the shift to industrialism. Children starved... mothers and fathers slept in flop houses... extra room made in the building by having people hang on ropes rather than use up valuable floor space.
What was your education? What do you know of the early industrial revolution?
You're going to adapt or be pasted. Getting mad means nothing. You can't stop it.
I told you. Get to high ground or nothing can be done for you.
The emotions, the moralizing... words. The wave comes.
get to high ground.
I want people with life sentences to work too. your parole concept isn't prison. Its parole.
Rejected.
Going through your brief attempt to be constructive... you said I need to hit 10 dollars per hour in productivity to break even in the system.
Totally obtainable. Here you say "but people are sick or old"... I'm not asking for brain surgery here and I'm not asking for 100 percent participation.
Let us say we need to hit 15 or 20 dollars an hour. Still obtainable... that would presume a certain portion of the population not participating.
We can still hit 15 to 20 dollars of productivity especially if you consider that a lot of costs for workers are things that might not need to be offered to convicts... healthcare is not something the company will have to offer that will come from the prison system. That sort of thing.
As to the rest... you basically got gun shy of the issue when you saw the numbers were obtainable.
I'm going to call that a win and move on.
I'll give you the last word.
you're just saying the government is too institutionally incompetent to buy a hard drive...
If you're that dumb... don't tell me what to do. I'll tell you what to do.
you're still thinking like a politician... you're thinking in terms of laws and regulations? What do engineers or scientists care for that shit?
The engineers are too busy making things that WORK and the scientists are too busy unraveling the mysteries of the natural world.
Laws? *giggles*
No. You solve the issue by fixing the technological problem that creates it. Then the law becomes irrelevant because people will just do the right thing because it is superior.
Technology can solve any problem technology creates.
Contradict me. Name a problem technology created that technology can't solve.
Double dog dare you.
Technological problems can be solved with technological solutions. I don't need no stinking laws or regulations to fix it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
The carbon credits even within countries is a joke because it doesn't operate at a ZERO credit basis.
That is... you should start...everyone... at ZERO credits.
That is never how it is done. Big polluting industries start out with LOTS and everyone else starts out with nothing.
This grandfathers in polluters while fucking over competitors.
And you say you don't like carbon credits between countries, BUT if you don't assess the carbon cost of imports than you can export pollution by exporting manufacturing.
You don't solve this without a technological change that makes coal ACTUALLY less economical. Not more economical if you lie and cook the books and make shit up.
And how do you know if wind and solar is cheaper?... when china and india prefer it to coal. If they prefer coal... then coal is cheaper. Count on it.
random people? random people are deleting database records? Clearly IT people or the incompetence is even greater.
And replacing an HD is no big deal.
For one thing... was this the only drive in the machine? really? With something like this you ahve a system drive and a data drive... and what you'd do is install ANOTHER harddrive bringing us to 3... transfer all the shit from the tiny 80 gig drive to the 2 terabyte drive... and then degauss the 80 drive or otherwise sanitize it to whatever standards seem reasonable.
Honestly, that's the last place I care about internet service.
But then I sleep through all my flights. I'm really really good at it.
I get on the plane... sit with a crying baby on one side, a smelly fat guy on the other... and I flip the switch in my head that keeps me awake... and I'm out. I wake up when the landing gear touches down and groggly get off the plane.
This is literally how I fly. How do I pull off this witchcraft? I don't go to sleep the night before a flight. so when I get to the plane... I'm pretty tired... and I can reliably sleep whenever and where ever I want to sleep.
So I get on the plane... stow luggage, sit down, lights out. I'm typically asleep long before the plane even takes off.
It's marvelous. I generally wake up and have this pile of peanuts that the stewardesses gave to me when I was asleep... gives me something to munch on while the planet taxis to the gate. :D
Enron for one in case anyone is dumb enough to defend the concept. Don't be that guy. Let it die.
Also our increasingly chubby ex vice president. Happily from what I understand the 2008 credit crash killed most of his machinations.
If any of you are wondering why the wind went out of the sails of this issue... The "Bell" tolled for it and it went into the compost bin of history.
I am a big fan of environmental reform... I just want it to be REAL and EFFECTIVE... not a fucking scam to enrich assholes or get politicians elected.
If you care about your petty political parties more than the environment than you don't care about the environment in the first place.
Real change is going to involve china and india and all the other developing countries that are going to come right after them. One after the other. That is going to require a technological change. Not carbon credits. Just cold hard barrel of a loaded gun with the hammer cocked pressed against a temple... truth. This isn't something you solve by passing a law.
The problem was created by a technological change. Without coal and fossil fuel energy sources there would be no problem. The industrial revolution created a problem.
Technology can solve problems technology creates.
The question was quite clear:
""
As to abuses, I don't see how abuses relates to revenue.
""
Explain why abuse is unavoidable. That it CAN happen is not an argument against it. You CAN get water in a submarine... however the design of the submarine mitigates the situation.
That something CAN happen does not mean that it WILL happen.
As to citing laws already on the books, then don't hand wring to me about things that are already illegal.
As to your increasingly tiresome attempts to win an argument by alluding to your greater knowledge... which mostly boils down to the common knowledge that there were problems with past programs. I generally take your knowledge lightly because it isn't anything I'm unaware of or anything that hasn't been addressed already in general. The specifics are furthermore not relevant since they add no new depth to the situation.
As to them already working... This is a statement from you so obtuse that i don't need to craft any reply beyond simply shaking my head at its citation.
As to your saying that you want to build on the experience of the past... you have offered no constructive input in this entire discussion. None.
You've just said over and over again that we can't build houses and have to live in caves. Over and over and over again.
here is how you be constructive... how do we get to a net ZERO cost structure? You say you have knowledge on the issue? here is your chance to show it. How do we mitigate the problems of the past while obtaining the stated goal.
If you say we can't... then you're saying we can't build houses and my analogy stands.
As to freedom to work = parole. No. that is release from prison. Rejected.
You're not being constructive and this wisdom you keep alluding to... we've gone over it and there's quite a bit less there than you'd need to sustain your position.
good luck.
Best you'll get out of the AI will be a system wide alert to turn around.
That said, I strongly support the idea that people should be able to control their cars manually either in emergencies or on private property.
As to the relationship of the driver to the Taxi... that is up to the taxi company.
I can see it going either way.
The taxi could make someone effectively the driver for the duration of the taxi trip like a AI rental car. Or it could simply be a drone that asks people where they want to go and then you're a passenger period.
If you're a passenger... and not the owner... then the AI shouldn't recognize your authority over the police unless the owners of the taxi company want to do that. I again, feel very strongly that the owners should be in control of the car ultimately. In this case that is the taxi company.
The taxi company isn't going to want any trouble so they'll just pull over.
What I don't want is for the police to override the driving computer of a driver of a car and especially the owner.
I want them to ASK for a car to pull over. The AI will see a REQUEST by law enforcement to comply. And that message will be relayed to the driver.
If there is no one in the car... it will just pull over. If there is no one in the car that has the authorization to over rule the AI's default actions then the car will pull over.
Anyone that owns the car or has overrule privileges with the AI... should be able to ignore a police order. That doesn't mean the police will just say "oh, alright then"... it means the police are going to do what they do now. They're going to follow you around and possibly set up a road block or a spike strip to stop you. Another fun idea is to tag your car with a transponder. Fire a dart into your bumper that that emits a tracking beacon. No need for high speed chases. Just fire the dart and then drive at a safe speed. Police farther down the road will intercept. No need to maintain line of sight.
The crimes that are going to be committed with drones... so much fun.
That's fine... that said, why is this in the media then?
The whole thing is bizarre.
As to abuses versus revenue... you're not answering the question. You're just being peevish now.
As to it being hard to make the labor voluntary. No it isn't. Define the difficulty. It seems very easy to do.
I have it be law that the prisoners can refuse any work for any reason at any time. And that any one that attempts to force a prisoner to do any work they don't want to do is themselves violating the law. Punishment for that would vary as reason dictates. But I don't really see what you want me to do about that?
What are you saying? That the prison officials will violate the law and force prisoners to do things they don't want to do for monetary gain? I can set up enforcement and monitoring for this issue and do it under a independent organization that would have no conflict of interest and would therefore have no reason not to monitor accurately.
Is that enough for you?
I'm quite sincere here. I want that 40 billion nullified on the budget. Gone.
And the only way that is going to happen is if the prisoners work.
We can lower that number by reducing the number of prisoners but the only way to make it VANISH entirely is to get the prisoners working.
As to getting prisoners to do maintenance at prisons... The problem I have there is that I wouldn't want them to maintain their own prison because they could intentionally do a shitty job to facilitate an escape. Its a security issue.
As to maintenance of other things... Sure. Roads... whatever. The only issue I see there is that the transit unions are going to throw a shit fit over that and I'd rather not waste political capital fighting them when it is a hard sell issue in the first place. I'd like to avoid making the implementation more complicated than it already is. So I'd like to not poach the labor of civic unions because they have enough political clout to frustrate the whole thing.
I'd want to work with them and make sure that anything we did was with their approval.... hand in glove. I don't want to fight the unions unless I need to fight them.
As to your repeated refrain that "it was done badly in the past so it can only be done badly in the future"...
Then airplanes wouldn't work... democracy wouldn't work... basically anything we've ever done had many failures as we learned what had to be managed to keep the system working properly or out to optimize it so that it worked better.
I categorically reject the notion that because something was badly implemented in the past that it cannot be properly implemented in the future. That is a very odd position to take that is entirely contrary to our understanding of how anything else works.
How many houses did we build before we learned how to build them properly? You're the guy sitting there going "well the last house sucked so we should go back to the cave"...
I know you don't like that argument... but that is my impression of your position. Your prisoner lease concept that you don't like is mired in issues of southern racial discrimination. You're talking about people that didn't recognize the humanity of the prisoners. I do. Your leasing program also didn't give prisoners choices or otherwise extorted them to do the work. I would definitely ENCOURAGE them to do the work but it would be an all carrots approach... no stick.
If the prisoner wants to stay in prison all day... eating sloppy joes... working out in the yard... shivving each other over bullshit... that's fine. He can do that if he wants. You like the status quo? Fine. You can have it if you want it.
But if a prisoner WANTS to work... then why not give him that freedom TO work? And of course, I will offer reasonable rewards for that work.
If you don't have a petty cash budget for these departments then you're idiots.
That doesn't mean your petty cash budget doesn't get audited. It means you can draw the money NOW do what you need to do... and then worry about it later.
What is more, I've personally bought things for my own organization out of my own money because I've felt confident that they'll reimburse me later.
I've never had a problem with that. I explain to whomever later on "hey I bought this for that reason and it cost this... here is a receipt"... and I get cut a check.
This guy says they can't go to Amazon to buy a new drive? yes you can.
Worst case... worst.. you're saying that you'd personally have to pay the 100 bucks a giant drive would cost out of pocket? Oooh... poor baby. I would do that if I were the IT guy running this shit show.
And if I made a regular practice of that... assuming my boss wasn't an assclown... he'd get me back some how. Maybe I get big fat bonus. Maybe I get a promotion. Maybe when they do one of those civil asset forfeitures I get a new car. I mean... you can't tell me they can't afford 100 dollars worth of something somewhere in that department. I refuse to believe they're THAT hard up for money that they can't afford a fucking harddrive.
I'm not gleeful. I'm trying to get a point across that you're playing chicken with an out of control freight train with no breaks.
You think you can make cow eyes at it and make it feel sympathy for you so it doesn't paste you.
And I'm telling you that that fucking thing isn't stopping. I am telling you to get off the tracks.
And then you're telling me "well I'm going to take this pocket knife and challenge the freight train to a duel!"...
To which I am saying "It will kill you and your pathetic challenge will mean nothing to it.."
You need to get off the track. It is not stopping.
If you say "I can't get off the track"...
Then you're fucked. I will mourn you but... there's nothing I can do for you if you don't get off the track.
You're not going to act now though.
What are you saying? You're going to storm the halls of the elites NOW and attack them?
*giggles*... you're just going to go to jail and anything you say on the matter will be taken by everyone as crazy talk...
You can't do anything now.
You have no chance of stopping this thing. Its happening.
And even if you stopped it in country X it would still happen in EVERY OTHER COUNTRY. Which would mean a lot of unfortunate things for you country because part of why this system is going to take over is because it is more efficient. Its BETTER at competing. Which means if your country isn't doing this... your country is going to be a third world country. Which means the other countries will be able to dictate terms to you the same way that first world countreis do to third world countries.
I can't seem to explain that you're trying to bargain with a tidal wave here. It doesn't care.
All you can do is get to high ground. That's what I'm suggesting you do. GET TO HIGH GROUND.
If you say you can't... then you're going to get hit with the tidal wave. Sorry.
In this scenario they're not attacking you. They're ignoring you. And because you can't live with them ignoring you, you will attack them because they have resources you need.
A mountain lion could attack deer on the same justification.
But that avoids the point that you're trying to morally justify attacking someone. You're saying it is okay to murder and rob people because "morality"... and that's fine in so far as your moral system is concerned. However, they're obviously going to defend themselves. And that's where you're going to get pasted by murder death kill bots.
As to you not being able to run a few inexpensive self replicating micro factories. I don't see why you can't do that.
Will people in cities that don't have jobs be able to sustain themselves? Probably not. But that just means they need to leave the cities. Just fucking go. You only went to the cities in teh first place to get jobs. Look at what is happening in Greece. The people are going back to the farms and back to the countryside. They are LEAVING the cities because the jobs are gone.
Okay? So i don't want to hear "I can't do these things in my tiny apartment".... if you stay in your tiny apartment with no job... you're an idiot and should practice making a face like a donut... and maybe buying some knee pads.
Once you have some space... you can get logistical independence with this technology.
And as I said... its going to be self replicating.
As to government taxes... that particular shit show is not going to last much longer.
The old system of taxation involved tariffs which worked best in the early industrial age.
Then we went to a system of taxing personal income which worked best when people were getting paid.
The government is going to have a hard time maintaining that system when incomes as a portion of the economy collapse.
Consider that there are many ways someone makes money or value. An open secret is that the very wealthy very very low incomes. What they have is Capital Gains. Which for them is basically the same thing only no one is paying them... they're just getting richer through investments etc.
Long story short, the taxation system needs to tax something with enough traffic to fund the government.
The government has to restrain spending to what is affordable over the long term with that tax revenue.
And the government has to understand that if it takes too much blood out of the donors they're going to be too weak to work properly.
So you need to tax something large enough to get your money.
You need to set a budget within that revenue.
And you can't take more than perhaps 25 to 30 percent of the PROFITS of that system or it will shut down and die.
We're already seeing a lot of things that are going to disrupt government control over money. Bitcoin is a bigger thing than a lot of people really understand. Bitcoin itself might not survive. But the concept of rogue crypto currencies is a thing and the government can't really stop it.
If I wanted to smuggle a lot of money from point A to point B... I'd do it in bitcoins. You can't really trace it. I can walk around with 20 million dollars worth of bitcoins in a thumb drive.
The government relies on tracking the banking system and being able to print more dollars when they run short.
What happens when much of the economy stops operating on those terms?
The whole government system you take as granted is much more fragile than you imagine.
1. by this same logic people might claim the sad puppies title for the same reason. The logic doesn't work in other applications which is a good sign it is invalid.
2. Its not a question of right or wrong... its a rejection of the notion that there aren't factional associations outside stated limited associations.
3/4. This was clearly bigger than Vox Day. Trying to boil everything down to him is inaccurate.
Look, I'll tell you again...
IT
DOES
NOT
MATTER
It doesn't matter. Brigading happened. Both sides. Obvious. The system is being reformed to make that harder. That will prevent ANYONE from brigading again in the future in the same way.
So... Given that the Sad Puppies said their problem was undue influence on the awards and brigading for various authors on political grounds... if the rules are changed to make it harder to brigade... then the sad puppies just won.
No?
Their point was not to get certain names on ONE award. Their point was to reform the system. The system is getting reformed.
So in what way would this not be a total victory?
The hierarchy of control should go this way:
1. Owner (should have an override that can shut off the engine even if not driving)
2. Driver (If they're behind the wheel only an owner can shut them off)
3. Police (can shut off any car not being piloted or directly controlled)
4. The AI
Here is how police should work... THE SAME WAY they do with normal drivers. A police car does not shoot your engine out or something. What they do is flash their lights and tell you pull over. And you DECIDE to pull over because you don't want to be in violation of more laws.
And that is how the AI should operate. If the AI is just zipping down the road and an AI police officer pulls you over (does anyone see that coming?). The AI in your car should DECIDE to pull over. It isn't being forced to do it. I can say "HA HA YOU"LL NEVER TAKE ME ALIVE COPPER!"... but it should only do that if you told it to do that. Otherwise it should pull over like a law abiding AI.
We've all discussed to death the issue with police overrides and how hackers can use them take control of your car.
So here is the solution. Rather than just have the AI comply immediately, you can have the AI PING the cockpit or cabin and say "Police request pull over". Then you have ten seconds in the car to reject that. If you don't reject it... then the car pulls off to the side of the road. Where likely as not a friendly Securitron will roll up wearing mirrored sunglasses and tell you to respect its authoritah!