I dunno how to scrore your comment as "really funny" - I find your joke really "cute" -- but it is okay within the "funny" context.
Shoot on our foot means that WE do shoot our self - Not the C/C++ language... That is why high-level java,.NET or other scripting tech is called "Idiot-proof" programming language:-)
I am used to speak, write, and think in C and C++ since year 1994, the year I've got to go serious in programming...
For those who are borned after the arcane MS-DOS-only home computers:
The C++ language is a really tough language to learn and master ( templates features: I begun to use it only since last year! ) and the C language learning curve and master is very necessary before going to C++, in my opinion, contrary of people telling that C is not required to go C++ in term of syntax and lexxical mastering. In the history of C, it was told that C is an high-level assembly language and still it is more true today - indeed, because the algo-engines generate better assembly algorithms than human brain...
-As I told in an angry reply ( Ruby sub-topic ), All those high-level - high-end - idiot proof scripting languages are ALL built from something at lower-level engines - speaking of programming language - : C/C++/Pascasl or any compiled-into-native-machine-code-cpu-binary instruction sets!!! Lets call it "Technology-level layers"... Thus at least the famous or infamous JAVA technologies are built from C or C++ ( really I dunno but certainly not Assembly language...).
And so for the other scripting techs.
-High-end level of "technology-level layers" such as Java, Perl, Python C#.NET etc... implements grouped lower-level layers instructions to form that high-end and complex business technology. Writing it in C/C++ or any other compiled language maybe hard and long and very skilled programmers requiered.
-Compiled languages should not be "cross-platform" because the results are the same as high-level languages: Slow and overhead calls of low-level instructions sets...
- In term of security, it is always the responsibilities of the programmers and their project-leaders- not - the technologies. No one can rely on pre-built packages for security from one generic context to a different specific, specialized-and-very-sensible context.
Really, the C/C++ language technology cannot be killed because it will always be requiered to perform extentions to the higher-level scripting -or pseudo-compiled languages. It is very stupid to think that C/C++ is no more needed as it is the base of most of the high-end layers.
As Java and.NET extends itself within its own layer-level, it is consuming more resources and getting bigger and f%^& slow and buggy. This is very dangerous - but the Power-Corporations refuse to PAY REAL DEEP-SKILLED PROGRAMMERS to secure and optimize their business techs at the level of C/C++. if those deep-skilled people are very rare in the world, it is because of JAVA. Not to talk about Microsoft deadly cupid+capitalist brain-hidding technologies (sorry, I had to say this:-).
For the small business compagnies that cannot afford deep-skilled people, there is no real solutions other than those scripting technologies...which are really good in small contexts - really.
And no - I am far from beiing a deep-skilled programmer, but I see what I see and I am scared of what is coming in the future....
Hi, it was 02:34 AM in the morning and I was a bit upset and very tired from other duites. But What I've writte in, if a bit loudly, was my believe as I said.
Indeed I use scripting tools - all the ones I named in my crazy comments (...). PHP, bash, javaScript/java... I did not want to say that scripting is bad, I was reacting very loudly and angry against people who says C/C++ should be dead.... Those people cannot be aware of that all higher-level of beautyfull and powerfull and idiot proof programming languages are in fact directly built from C/C++, or even assembly language... BTW are the assembly mnemonic langauges shall be killed ??? -- NO and NO for C/C++.
Scripting is a level of programming that it is NOT the same level of ASM, C/C++/PASCAL native machine-code compiled languages. I name it "SCRIPTING" not "programming at the level of C/C++....
I was used to fireup Borland Turbo C/C++ (2.x/3.x) In the DOS world before linux and Winblows and residential internet time. I wrote a BBS terminal client to connect and use those BBS through telephone-line modem ( 2400bps and 14400 bbs ) and had to hardcore program interrupts and speak to the UART dev to break that stupid DOS console 9600 bps max in the bios.
In the linux slackware 3.4 time I wrote a big custom real-time monitoring software to monitor real-time transaction @work - in C/C++ and my own "scripting" language to configure and setup the transaction data directives at runtime...etc...etc...blah...blah Other guys @work tried to use TCL/TK, JAVA, etc to achieve my goal without success and it was something really funny to see those scripting not doing 1% of what my project did... Thus, when really specialized stuff and speed is needed, NO scripted languages can be considered...
Arrg! by mistake I submitted my unfinished text!!!
Here it is and the above blah blah was only to say and bring this point according to my believe:
okay, java code ends here... and All other higher-level language are not PROGRAMING languages but certainly SCRIPTING LANGUAGES!!! Btw, In what language those SCRIPTING language was built from ????? hmmm??? C/C++/or even assembly language!!!! So you guys saying you are programmers when you put stuff like Ruby, Visual Basic, Java, Python, Perl, PHP, etc...etc... You're WRONG...You are SCRIPTERS not PROGRAMMERS....Unless you know and were used to program using those "arcane C/C++ languages- as you say...
ouf!!! I feel better now...Sorry I am really pissedoff when I see people talking about programming when in fact they SCRIPT with really big business words!!!!!
Scripting is really necessary for quick and fast config and interfacing programs...And installing Linux or even M$-Window$.
CODE: 0000 1010 1110 1001 END CODE
== binary direct CPU addressing natural language: I saw people analyzing fullscreen of those strange numeric signs for debug purposes... ( year 1986 at computer science class )
CODE:
lda #10
ldx (200)
jsr ffd2 ENDCODE
== Wow! more human readable mnemonics assembly code.
CODE: #include
int main(...){
printf("Hello world!\n");
return 0; } == Ooh! It is called "C" language and it is a high-level assenbly language:-)
CODE: Program Learning_To_program_At_school; uses System;...etc...
Type... End;
Var I:integer;
Procedure blah; Begin... End;
Begin.....; End.
== Hello I am called PASCAL and I am here to teach you to - how to program, and also to teach you some programming disciplines in that you will not be able to mix types as "C" does...
CODE: #include
class I_am_an_esoteric_class{ public:
I_am_an_esoteric_class();
virtual ~I_am_an_esoteric_class();
virtual a_method()=0;// abstraction... }; etc...etc... ENDCODE
== Hey my spritual brother, I am a new borned from high-vibration space etheral language based on "C" and in this new-age world beginning, I come from a dream of a real magic and totally polymophic memory space called Object-Oriented Programing and esotherism. ( I know there were already other kind of same worlds before me...)
CODE: import L1.L2.L3.L4.L5.L6.L7.L8.L9.L0;... class Main...blah BLAH{...
Indeed Fedora works for me. I used Mandrake since its 7.0 version ( at work:-) and at the same time, tried other distros ( such as Slack: my first Linux distro; SuSE, RH 6.x+ etc... ) and I always returned/prefered Mandrake over all others because of its easy userfriendly setup tools. Because especialy, devel tools/pkg seemed always half broken, I was used to manage to setup (missing lib here, orphan link there etc..) right and code confortably. And then came Fedora Core1 wich have everythings(i know/or need) working %100. I just can't return to Mandrake's inconsitencies.
I have switched to Fedora Core1. I am still a Mandrake Club (basic) member but since the first try of Fedora, I definitely abandoned Mandrake. Fedora is more stable and reliable ( RPMS, development libs ) than Mandrake... Even though my birth language is french ( Quebec ), I just cant use an always-broken(unstable, no RPMS consistency ) distribution.
Slashdot Mirror
I dunno how to scrore your comment as "really funny" - I find your joke really "cute" -- but it is okay within the "funny" context.
.NET or other scripting tech is called "Idiot-proof" programming language :-)
Shoot on our foot means that WE do shoot our self - Not the C/C++ language... That is why high-level java,
( warning: my low-english skills may be funny :-)
.NET extends itself within its own layer-level, it is consuming more resources and getting bigger and f%^& slow and buggy. This is very dangerous - but the Power-Corporations refuse to PAY REAL DEEP-SKILLED PROGRAMMERS to secure and optimize their business techs at the level of C/C++. if those deep-skilled people are very rare in the world, it is because of JAVA. Not to talk about Microsoft deadly cupid+capitalist brain-hidding technologies (sorry, I had to say this:-).
I am used to speak, write, and think in C and C++ since year 1994, the year I've got to go serious in programming...
For those who are borned after the arcane MS-DOS-only home computers:
The C++ language is a really tough language to learn and master ( templates features: I begun to use it only since last year! ) and the C language learning curve and master is very necessary before going to C++, in my opinion, contrary of people telling that C is not required to go C++ in term of syntax and lexxical mastering. In the history of C, it was told that C is an high-level assembly language and still it is more true today - indeed, because the algo-engines generate better assembly algorithms than human brain...
-As I told in an angry reply ( Ruby sub-topic ), All those high-level - high-end - idiot proof scripting languages are ALL built from something at lower-level engines - speaking of programming language - : C/C++/Pascasl or any compiled-into-native-machine-code-cpu-binary instruction sets!!!
Lets call it "Technology-level layers"...
Thus at least the famous or infamous JAVA technologies are built from C or C++ ( really I dunno but certainly not Assembly language...).
And so for the other scripting techs.
-High-end level of "technology-level layers" such as Java, Perl, Python C#.NET etc...
implements grouped lower-level layers instructions to form that high-end and complex business technology. Writing it in C/C++ or any other compiled language maybe hard and long and very skilled programmers requiered.
-Compiled languages should not be "cross-platform" because the results are the same as high-level languages: Slow and overhead calls of low-level instructions sets...
- In term of security, it is always the responsibilities of the programmers and their project-leaders- not - the technologies. No one can rely on pre-built packages for security from one generic context to a different specific, specialized-and-very-sensible context.
Really, the C/C++ language technology cannot be killed because it will always be requiered to perform extentions to the higher-level scripting -or pseudo-compiled languages. It is very stupid to think that C/C++ is no more needed as it is the base of most of the high-end layers.
As Java and
For the small business compagnies that cannot afford deep-skilled people, there is no real solutions other than those scripting technologies...which are really good in small contexts - really.
And no - I am far from beiing a deep-skilled programmer, but I see what I see and I am scared of what is coming in the future....
Long-live to C/C++
Hi, it was 02:34 AM in the morning and I was a bit upset and very tired from other duites. But What I've writte in, if a bit loudly, was my believe as I said.
:-) hahaha
Indeed I use scripting tools - all the ones I named in my crazy comments (...). PHP, bash, javaScript/java...
I did not want to say that scripting is bad, I was reacting very loudly and angry against people who says C/C++ should be dead.... Those people cannot be aware of that all higher-level of beautyfull and powerfull and idiot proof programming languages are in fact directly built from C/C++, or even assembly language... BTW are the assembly mnemonic langauges shall be killed ??? -- NO and NO for C/C++.
Scripting is a level of programming that it is NOT the same level of ASM, C/C++/PASCAL native machine-code compiled languages.
I name it "SCRIPTING" not "programming at the level of C/C++....
I was used to fireup Borland Turbo C/C++ (2.x/3.x) In the DOS world before linux and Winblows and residential internet time. I wrote a BBS terminal client to connect and use those BBS through telephone-line modem ( 2400bps and 14400 bbs ) and had to hardcore program interrupts and speak to the UART dev to break that stupid DOS console 9600 bps max in the bios.
In the linux slackware 3.4 time I wrote a big custom real-time monitoring software to monitor real-time transaction @work - in C/C++ and my own "scripting" language to configure and setup the transaction data directives at runtime...etc...etc...blah...blah
Other guys @work tried to use TCL/TK, JAVA, etc to achieve my goal without success and it was something really funny to see those scripting not doing 1% of what my project did... Thus, when really specialized stuff and speed is needed, NO scripted languages can be considered...
So there are Programmers, and Scripters
Long live to REAL C/C++ programmers!
cheers!
Arrg! by mistake I submitted my unfinished text!!!
...
Here it is and the above blah blah was only to say and bring this point according to my believe:
okay, java code ends here...
and All other higher-level language are not PROGRAMING languages but certainly SCRIPTING LANGUAGES!!!
Btw, In what language those SCRIPTING language was built from ????? hmmm???
C/C++/or even assembly language!!!!
So you guys saying you are programmers when you put stuff like Ruby, Visual Basic, Java, Python, Perl, PHP, etc...etc... You're WRONG...You are SCRIPTERS not PROGRAMMERS....Unless you know and were used to program using those "arcane C/C++ languages- as you say
ouf!!! I feel better now...Sorry I am really pissedoff when I see people talking about programming when in fact they SCRIPT with really big business words!!!!!
Scripting is really necessary for quick and fast config and interfacing programs...And installing Linux or even M$-Window$.
hummm... I am a dead man I know....
CODE:
0000 1010 1110 1001
END CODE
== binary direct CPU addressing natural language: I saw people analyzing fullscreen of those strange numeric signs for debug purposes
CODE:
lda #10
ldx (200)
jsr ffd2
ENDCODE
== Wow! more human readable mnemonics assembly code.
CODE:
#include
int main(...){
printf("Hello world!\n");
return 0;
}
== Ooh! It is called "C" language and it is a high-level assenbly language
CODE:
Program Learning_To_program_At_school;
uses System;...etc...
Type
End;
Var I:integer;
Procedure blah;
Begin
End;
Begin
End.
== Hello I am called PASCAL and I am here to teach you to - how to program, and also to teach you some programming disciplines in that you will not be able to mix types as "C" does
CODE:
#include
class I_am_an_esoteric_class{
public:
I_am_an_esoteric_class();
virtual ~I_am_an_esoteric_class();
virtual a_method()=0;
}; etc...etc...
ENDCODE
== Hey my spritual brother, I am a new borned from high-vibration space etheral language based on "C" and in this new-age world beginning, I come from a dream of a real magic and totally polymophic memory space called Object-Oriented Programing and esotherism. ( I know there were already other kind of same worlds before me...)
CODE:
import L1.L2.L3.L4.L5.L6.L7.L8.L9.L0;
class Main...blah BLAH{
( again sorry if my english is funny :-)
:-) and at the same time, tried other distros ( such as Slack: my first Linux distro; SuSE, RH 6.x+ etc... ) and I always returned/prefered Mandrake over all others because of its easy userfriendly setup tools. Because especialy, devel tools/pkg seemed always half broken, I was used to manage to setup (missing lib here, orphan link there etc ..) right and code confortably. And then came Fedora Core1 wich have everythings(i know/or need) working %100. I just can't return to Mandrake's inconsitencies.
Indeed Fedora works for me. I used Mandrake since its 7.0 version ( at work
Thanks,
Bretzel
I have switched to Fedora Core1. I am still a Mandrake Club (basic) member but since the first try of Fedora, I definitely abandoned Mandrake.
Fedora is more stable and reliable ( RPMS, development libs ) than Mandrake... Even though my birth language is french ( Quebec ), I just cant use an always-broken(unstable, no RPMS consistency ) distribution.
as everybody say- Just my 2 cents...