Sorry, dude, but you are a dead fool. I normally I don't call names in my posts, but if it's a duck, it's a duck, and you're a fool. You would not have any conception of satan if it weren't for the Judeo-Christian religions. You're desire to be different will destroy you.
The created is always less than the Creator. Still, for you - I think you should stay just where you are. Anyone that would put their trust in deception deserves exactly what they get. Yep, just keep your faith in the father of lies, and remember that he is probably telling the truth when he says Hell's not hot, and every guy gets their own virgin.
You are right where you belong, buddy. I just felt like responding to this even though it's likely flamebait. Obviously anyone that posts Anonymously doesn't have the courage of their convictions, or maybe they just really lack convictions.
OK, so we are all just big tumor's with brains. Does a tumor have the potential to think? To become self-aware? A circulatory system? Who's DNA is it made of?
A tumor will never be able to Think.
A tumor will never know it is a tumor.
A tumor doesn't have a vascular system.
Who's DNA are you made of? Your DNA is unique to you.
Besides, I never said a woman didn't have a choice, she has two: The right one, and the wrong one. Also, I don't think she should be imprisoned or tried for making the wrong decision.
How can a group that has such a high opinion of it's own intellect, and such a low opinion of organized religion, particularly anything remotely resembling Judeo/Christianity, not see what Hagelin and the Natural Party are really saying? How can anyone here be taken in by someone that uses words like harmonize and society's in the same sentence, as in:
...how to skillfully administer and harmonize society's diverse tendencies
Did anyone here actually read the very last paragraph of this interview? Can anyone actually read it, and not realize that what this man is talking about is Universal Religion disguised as politics? He is pushing national religion if not world religion. Every reader here ought to be outraged by this proposal to force cosmic awareness "... through proper education" upon us. Agnostic, Atheist, Pagan, Christian, Muslim, {{insert religion here}}, all of us, should be able to agree on this one thing: Universal Religion is bad!!!
Thank God I'm a Christian - only the serious should apply.
You know, I have gotten used to all the animosity on Slashdot toward religion. In particualar, the Judeo/Christian religions. Yet how can the Slashdotizens, who, for the most part, I perceive as above average in intelligence, not see that Haeglin isn't just pushing a political party, but is in effect pushing his own religion? And a national if not World Religion at that?
I don't know about you, but the thought of a World Religion terrifies me. I am thankful for the diversity of religious institutions in the world. I pray that everyone in the world does NOT convert to one religion, despite my belief in Christianity. The fact is that many people who proclaim religion do just that - proclaim it. They have twisted it on more than one occasion toward their own selfish ends. Man's greatest ambition is the reason that religion gets such a bad wrap these days.
In my Bible, at least, I have never read a passage that said to go out and kill everyone with a different viewpoint, though many men have done just that in the name of {{PUT RELIGION HERE}}. Not to advance God's (or Higher Power, or whatever you want to call it's) Kingdom, but their own. Yes, even the the Catholic religion (which I am converting to) has perpetrated some of these atrocities.
It is man's relentless persuit of excessive indulgence that has twisted his real instincts out of all proportion to their natural purpose. It is man's selfishness, greed, and undeserved intellectual pride, that has caused the decline of Society today, not the various Judeo/Christian ethics that our nation was founded on. So let's not condemn someone for their religions beliefs if they are real, but rather base our decisions on what is best for our country. Where is our sense of Nationalism today!
I don't want the government meddling in my life any more than they already do. I want to make my own decisions about where my money, my time, my effort, will do the most good. I don't need a government that thinks it knows what's best for humanity (the Democrats and many liberals). I am capable of deciding for myself. If more of my money is in my pocket, I can decide what charity, religion, causes, etc. to support. With money in the government's hands, they get to choose.
For this reason, and for my own religious leanings, I will vote for Bush, even though I am a registered Independent.
I believe in a moment of silence in schools - not teacher led prayer. I believe in teaching right and wrong in schools, and since many of our ideas have come from the Ten Commandments, I don't mind having them posted in classrooms (even if they are modified to remove any reference to a specific God). I believe in developing character in our youth - It is the surest way to deter drug use and abuse. I believe drugs should remain illegal, but that the higher level dealers should receive the greatest punishment (after all, many of the street dealers are addicts determined to support their disease).
What is wrong with these things? What is wrong with being moral? Seek the truth, and you might actually stumble onto it one day.
"I don't understand why pro-life proponents... can at the same time hold that abortions in the case of rape or incest are OK"
You are absolutely correct. Abortion is wrong regardless of whether the conception was the result of consentual sex, or non-consentual sex. However, as another poster mentioned, I can empathize with the victim of a violent, unwanted, violation. I am deeply disturbed when I hear about such a case. I have also thought about what my reaction would be if such a thing happened to my wife. I am positive I would be as devastated as she would be, but I hope that together we could make the right decision and put the child up for adoption rather than kill it. After all, it was innocent of the crime.
It is such a hard thing to contemplate. Just thinking about it is making it difficult to write this post. I guess there is really no way of knowing what your reaction might be unless you have to endure it. I pray that all women that have suffered this type of humiliation will find peace and reconcilliation with whatever decision they made or will make.
I am sorry that your intolerance shines through. You see, I do not persecute you, nor berate you for your lack of religious belief, yet you accuse me of being feeble minded. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your preconceived notions about religious believers. I can't recall being told how to think recently, except for some leftist, liberal, pseudo-intelectual, Democrat in the government that believes they know how to spend my money better than I do. I'll do my own thinking, thank you.
There is also no law that states morality is the sole dominion of organized religion. One would be a fool to think so. However, the fact remains that the majority of today's morality was defined by the Judeo-Christian ethic. As for Christ, he does not blindly forgive all. Apparently your knowledge of "religion", and Christians in particular, is derived from some Far Right, Christian coalition, protestant rhetoric. Unfortunately many people are misled by the same sort of thing you are alluding to. Faith without works is dead.
Also, religion is not the instigator of the atrocities you refer to, man is. You hit the nail on the head when you said "in the name of religion". I can't seem to find anywhere in the Bible that says go out and kill people so that they will convert. My Bible must be missing that passage. The real root of the evil you refer to is man's misuse of religion. Men have always sought their own aggrandizement through whatever means necessary, including religion. My opinion is that there is a great deal of difference between someone who attends church devoutly every week, and claims to be a Christian, and someone who actually lives like one. What difference is it to anyone whether I believe murder is wrong because the law says it is, or because the bible says it is? Morality is not prejudiced.
As for the world around me, I am much more aware of it than I used to be. Today I see it's beauty as well as it's warts. In fact, we are given this life to live, and we shouldn't waste the present for dreams of the future. Each day is a gift and should be treasured. And I don't know what church was forced upon you as a child, but the Catholic Church has devoted itself to destroying the fear, hatred, intolerance, and spilled blood that you speak of. Most protestant churches would tell you you are going to burn in Hell forever because you don't believe in Jesus. The Catholic Church believes that those who lead good, moral lives, to the best of their ability and knowledge, may be accepted into Heaven as well.
As for bigotry, you denounce it while practicing it. I think the word for that is hypocrisy. If you told me you found inner peace, strength, and joy by standing on your head, humming, and meditating over Moody Blues tunes, then I would be glad for you. It is such a shame that our self-rightous, intellectual pride is so good at shining the spotlight on other's beliefs, while concealing our own.
Finally, I am saddened by your lack of courage demonstrated through your anonymous post. Your comment about "it's still dangerous to have these views in America" is totally anathema to the Christianity I know. I don't persecute, threaten, despise, or censor anyones opinion sensibly and honestly expressed. Actually, it seems to me that in this country (US) you have less rights to freedom of expression as a Christian, than any other religious or atheistic individual.
I am glad to hear you are not anti-religious. I have not found Christianity to be very constraining at all. In fact it has been good to be freed from the bondage of self.
What do I mean by this? Well, since I have turned to (I know this word offends some and such offence is not intended) Christ, I have been freed from guilt, shame, remorse, and many other negative consequences of (another one of those words;-) sin.
I have also learned to master my instincts instead of being enslaved by them. You see, I always chased my desires, or instincts, to extremes. My desire for sex, acceptance, security, comfort, etc., far exceeded it's natural purpose. Instant gratification was my goal in almost everything. I found that many of my perceived pleasures, were torments in disguise.
This post is not really coming out quite as I had planned. I endured a great deal of suffering in my life as a atheist, and found it to be wanting. I never thought I would one day be a conservative Christian, but I am thankful it has turned out that way. I never desire to impose my beliefs on another, though I don't shy away from expressing and defending them when needed. I enjoy a good discussion about religion and theology, though at times I am woefully inadequate at it.
Thank you for your reply, though. The invitation to discussion is still open. I appreciate your spiritual leanings.
Dear Mr. Blade;-)
There are over 25,000 protestant denominations in the world. Most of these probably came from here. Religion in this country, like in most of the world, is getting watered down by liberalism. I am a religious person, and I am currently going through RCIA (Right of Christian Initiation for Adults) to become a Catholic. Hopefully this doesn't taint your opinion of my post (I don't know if you are anti-Catholic or not), but the reason I have decided to become Catholic is it's consistency. It is one of the few religious institutions that has remained mostly faithful to the original christian teachings and it's moral beliefs.
There are many people in this country that go to church every week (some go several times a week, ie Baptists), but there are not very many true christians. The majority go to church, but don't experience any sort of change in their lives. They go on living in the world, only giving second thought to the Spirit. I am not condemning these folks, just stating what my experience has shown.
I did consider myself an Evangelical Christian, but found a more consistent, and logical theological foundation in Catholicism. I once persecuted the Catholic Church (not quite like Saul - Paul - did) because I believed what some Evangelicals claimed about it. Then I started investigating it myself hoping to find some strong arguments against it. Instead, I am converting.
I guess this is sort of a long way to say that here in America, we too are guilty of trying to put God in a box. Therefore, this New Jerusalem idea may appeal to many here, after all, isn't the physical structure of the internet mostly contained in these beige boxes and the veins (cables) connecting them?
Email me if you want to discuss anything else about America or religion.
Perhaps at 3 months it is hard to determine, but by four you CAN definately tell what it is. Do you have any children that you know of? If so, did you see the ultrasound? It was a baby, regardless of what you might have told yourself.
Two:
Thank you. I won't. Leaving out what it does to the baby, the mother is often distraught after the fact. They are more likely to suffer from depression and anxiety. It is a traumatic experience for both.
Three:
Your point indicates that you realize there are always two sides to a story. If you reread my post, you will see that I never advocated throwing out Rowe v. Wade. I merely suggested what the proper use of this "right" should be. As for your last statement... that is just ridiculous. When was the last time someone conceived without having sex? Well, if you are a Christian, it would be about two thousand years ago. If you are not a Christian, well golly! Never. If you believe in birth control, then I suppose it is irrelevant that
a lot of opponents don't believe in it.
Four:
I was one of those unwanted children, but I was adopted. I grew, I struggled, I suffered, I experienced joy and happiness, mercy and compassion. I lived through pain and sorrow. I lived and have learned what love really is, and it is the antithesis of selfish pride, egotism, and self centeredness. I am thankful that my biological parents saw fit to give me a chance to experience it all.
I am not writing to judge others or their actions. Forgiveness is ever present. I am just trying to let others know that there are alternatives. Finally, I don't think it should be such a political issue. It IS by it's nature a moral issue. Let's get it out of politics, and leave it in the hospitals, and with individuals.
I am a Pro-Life supporter. Before you get your panties in a wad, I have never bombed an abortion clinic, nor attended a picket or rally on the issue. In fact, I am sick of seeing all the lines drawn in the sand over the issue. Can't we all just throw this out as a political sledgehammer, and focus on more important things?
There are medical situations that may justify an abortion. For instance, if the mother and baby are both in jeopardy, then I would suggest that the mother's health should be the first consideration. What really ticks me off, though, is when BABY MURDER is used as a means of birth control. And don't doubt for a moment that it is used in such a heinous fashion.
In todays world, there is very little need to resort to such brutish, evil behavior to satisfy anyones pursuit of happiness. With all the modern methods of preventing conception today, there is NO excuse for multiple unwanted pregnancies. Supposedly the 'pill' is what 98% effective? And condoms are 99% effective? Hell, add those two up and you have 197% protection! (oh yeah, I do know that that doesn't pan out exactly statistically speaking) Add to that a diaphragm and some spermicidal lubricant, and you would be hard pressed to get knocked up.
Of course, if that is too much trouble, there is the old fashioned, but guaranteed 100% effective method of keeping it in your pants(men), or keeping your legs closed and pants on(women). Oh yeah, all those things get in the way of my instant gratification, poor me.
Gosh, you know, my parents are becoming a real inconvenience. Maybe that day after pill will do them in, too {{SARCASM}}, and don't get me started on that good for nothing grandma of mine {{MORE SARCASM}}.
This is getting a little nastier than I intended, so let's change the pace. I don't know how many of you out there have children, or how many of you have had abortions. I have my first son now. He is 6 1/2 months old now. My wife and I dated for 6 years before we married, and have been married for 5 1/2 years now. You know what? She has not had to choose an abortion, for any reason. I miss the three times a day sex now that we have a baby (OK, lets get honest, since we have been married - you married guys know what I mean;-), but I do not regret it one bit.
I saw the ultrasound at 4 months. There was a heart, and it was beating. There were arms and legs. There was a spinal cord and a head. There was even a penis. He was moving around.
What is the definition of life? What is a baby? What is innocence? Does life experience and memory have anything to do with it? If so, then what about permanent amnesia sufferers. What about Alzheimers. What about the idiot savant.
Abortion for medical reasons, maybe. This is the area where choice is appropriate. Abortion because of carelessness? Recklessness? Irresponsibility? Inconvenience? That is just plain old murder.
Slashdot Mirror
Peace.
The created is always less than the Creator. Still, for you - I think you should stay just where you are. Anyone that would put their trust in deception deserves exactly what they get. Yep, just keep your faith in the father of lies, and remember that he is probably telling the truth when he says Hell's not hot, and every guy gets their own virgin.
You are right where you belong, buddy. I just felt like responding to this even though it's likely flamebait. Obviously anyone that posts Anonymously doesn't have the courage of their convictions, or maybe they just really lack convictions.
By the way, you haven't read any preaching yet.
A tumor will never be able to Think.
A tumor will never know it is a tumor.
A tumor doesn't have a vascular system.
Who's DNA are you made of? Your DNA is unique to you.
Besides, I never said a woman didn't have a choice, she has two: The right one, and the wrong one. Also, I don't think she should be imprisoned or tried for making the wrong decision.
Thanks for the math, at any rate:-)
Peace be with you.
Did anyone here actually read the very last paragraph of this interview? Can anyone actually read it, and not realize that what this man is talking about is Universal Religion disguised as politics? He is pushing national religion if not world religion. Every reader here ought to be outraged by this proposal to force cosmic awareness "... through proper education" upon us. Agnostic, Atheist, Pagan, Christian, Muslim, {{insert religion here}}, all of us, should be able to agree on this one thing: Universal Religion is bad !!!
Thank God I'm a Christian - only the serious should apply.
I don't know about you, but the thought of a World Religion terrifies me. I am thankful for the diversity of religious institutions in the world. I pray that everyone in the world does NOT convert to one religion, despite my belief in Christianity. The fact is that many people who proclaim religion do just that - proclaim it. They have twisted it on more than one occasion toward their own selfish ends. Man's greatest ambition is the reason that religion gets such a bad wrap these days.
In my Bible, at least, I have never read a passage that said to go out and kill everyone with a different viewpoint, though many men have done just that in the name of {{PUT RELIGION HERE}}. Not to advance God's (or Higher Power, or whatever you want to call it's) Kingdom, but their own. Yes, even the the Catholic religion (which I am converting to) has perpetrated some of these atrocities.
It is man's relentless persuit of excessive indulgence that has twisted his real instincts out of all proportion to their natural purpose. It is man's selfishness, greed, and undeserved intellectual pride, that has caused the decline of Society today, not the various Judeo/Christian ethics that our nation was founded on. So let's not condemn someone for their religions beliefs if they are real, but rather base our decisions on what is best for our country. Where is our sense of Nationalism today!
I don't want the government meddling in my life any more than they already do. I want to make my own decisions about where my money, my time, my effort, will do the most good. I don't need a government that thinks it knows what's best for humanity (the Democrats and many liberals). I am capable of deciding for myself. If more of my money is in my pocket, I can decide what charity, religion, causes, etc. to support. With money in the government's hands, they get to choose.
For this reason, and for my own religious leanings, I will vote for Bush, even though I am a registered Independent.
I believe in a moment of silence in schools - not teacher led prayer. I believe in teaching right and wrong in schools, and since many of our ideas have come from the Ten Commandments, I don't mind having them posted in classrooms (even if they are modified to remove any reference to a specific God). I believe in developing character in our youth - It is the surest way to deter drug use and abuse. I believe drugs should remain illegal, but that the higher level dealers should receive the greatest punishment (after all, many of the street dealers are addicts determined to support their disease).
What is wrong with these things? What is wrong with being moral? Seek the truth, and you might actually stumble onto it one day.
You are absolutely correct. Abortion is wrong regardless of whether the conception was the result of consentual sex, or non-consentual sex. However, as another poster mentioned, I can empathize with the victim of a violent, unwanted, violation. I am deeply disturbed when I hear about such a case. I have also thought about what my reaction would be if such a thing happened to my wife. I am positive I would be as devastated as she would be, but I hope that together we could make the right decision and put the child up for adoption rather than kill it. After all, it was innocent of the crime.
It is such a hard thing to contemplate. Just thinking about it is making it difficult to write this post. I guess there is really no way of knowing what your reaction might be unless you have to endure it. I pray that all women that have suffered this type of humiliation will find peace and reconcilliation with whatever decision they made or will make.
Have mercy on us
There is also no law that states morality is the sole dominion of organized religion. One would be a fool to think so. However, the fact remains that the majority of today's morality was defined by the Judeo-Christian ethic. As for Christ, he does not blindly forgive all. Apparently your knowledge of "religion", and Christians in particular, is derived from some Far Right, Christian coalition, protestant rhetoric. Unfortunately many people are misled by the same sort of thing you are alluding to. Faith without works is dead.
Also, religion is not the instigator of the atrocities you refer to, man is. You hit the nail on the head when you said "in the name of religion". I can't seem to find anywhere in the Bible that says go out and kill people so that they will convert. My Bible must be missing that passage. The real root of the evil you refer to is man's misuse of religion. Men have always sought their own aggrandizement through whatever means necessary, including religion. My opinion is that there is a great deal of difference between someone who attends church devoutly every week, and claims to be a Christian, and someone who actually lives like one. What difference is it to anyone whether I believe murder is wrong because the law says it is, or because the bible says it is? Morality is not prejudiced.
As for the world around me, I am much more aware of it than I used to be. Today I see it's beauty as well as it's warts. In fact, we are given this life to live, and we shouldn't waste the present for dreams of the future. Each day is a gift and should be treasured. And I don't know what church was forced upon you as a child, but the Catholic Church has devoted itself to destroying the fear, hatred, intolerance, and spilled blood that you speak of. Most protestant churches would tell you you are going to burn in Hell forever because you don't believe in Jesus. The Catholic Church believes that those who lead good, moral lives, to the best of their ability and knowledge, may be accepted into Heaven as well.
As for bigotry, you denounce it while practicing it. I think the word for that is hypocrisy. If you told me you found inner peace, strength, and joy by standing on your head, humming, and meditating over Moody Blues tunes, then I would be glad for you. It is such a shame that our self-rightous, intellectual pride is so good at shining the spotlight on other's beliefs, while concealing our own.
Finally, I am saddened by your lack of courage demonstrated through your anonymous post. Your comment about "it's still dangerous to have these views in America" is totally anathema to the Christianity I know. I don't persecute, threaten, despise, or censor anyones opinion sensibly and honestly expressed. Actually, it seems to me that in this country (US) you have less rights to freedom of expression as a Christian, than any other religious or atheistic individual.
Peace, love, and mercy to all.
I am glad to hear you are not anti-religious. I have not found Christianity to be very constraining at all. In fact it has been good to be freed from the bondage of self.
What do I mean by this? Well, since I have turned to (I know this word offends some and such offence is not intended) Christ, I have been freed from guilt, shame, remorse, and many other negative consequences of (another one of those words;-) sin.
I have also learned to master my instincts instead of being enslaved by them. You see, I always chased my desires, or instincts, to extremes. My desire for sex, acceptance, security, comfort, etc., far exceeded it's natural purpose. Instant gratification was my goal in almost everything. I found that many of my perceived pleasures, were torments in disguise.
This post is not really coming out quite as I had planned. I endured a great deal of suffering in my life as a atheist, and found it to be wanting. I never thought I would one day be a conservative Christian, but I am thankful it has turned out that way. I never desire to impose my beliefs on another, though I don't shy away from expressing and defending them when needed. I enjoy a good discussion about religion and theology, though at times I am woefully inadequate at it.
Thank you for your reply, though. The invitation to discussion is still open. I appreciate your spiritual leanings.
There are many people in this country that go to church every week (some go several times a week, ie Baptists), but there are not very many true christians. The majority go to church, but don't experience any sort of change in their lives. They go on living in the world, only giving second thought to the Spirit. I am not condemning these folks, just stating what my experience has shown.
I did consider myself an Evangelical Christian, but found a more consistent, and logical theological foundation in Catholicism. I once persecuted the Catholic Church (not quite like Saul - Paul - did) because I believed what some Evangelicals claimed about it. Then I started investigating it myself hoping to find some strong arguments against it. Instead, I am converting.
I guess this is sort of a long way to say that here in America, we too are guilty of trying to put God in a box. Therefore, this New Jerusalem idea may appeal to many here, after all, isn't the physical structure of the internet mostly contained in these beige boxes and the veins (cables) connecting them?
Email me if you want to discuss anything else about America or religion.
Two:
Three:Four:
I am not writing to judge others or their actions. Forgiveness is ever present. I am just trying to let others know that there are alternatives. Finally, I don't think it should be such a political issue. It IS by it's nature a moral issue. Let's get it out of politics, and leave it in the hospitals, and with individuals.
sane_one@wowmail.com
There are medical situations that may justify an abortion. For instance, if the mother and baby are both in jeopardy, then I would suggest that the mother's health should be the first consideration. What really ticks me off, though, is when BABY MURDER is used as a means of birth control. And don't doubt for a moment that it is used in such a heinous fashion.
In todays world, there is very little need to resort to such brutish, evil behavior to satisfy anyones pursuit of happiness. With all the modern methods of preventing conception today, there is NO excuse for multiple unwanted pregnancies. Supposedly the 'pill' is what 98% effective? And condoms are 99% effective? Hell, add those two up and you have 197% protection! (oh yeah, I do know that that doesn't pan out exactly statistically speaking) Add to that a diaphragm and some spermicidal lubricant, and you would be hard pressed to get knocked up.
Of course, if that is too much trouble, there is the old fashioned, but guaranteed 100% effective method of keeping it in your pants(men), or keeping your legs closed and pants on(women). Oh yeah, all those things get in the way of my instant gratification, poor me.
Gosh, you know, my parents are becoming a real inconvenience. Maybe that day after pill will do them in, too {{SARCASM}}, and don't get me started on that good for nothing grandma of mine {{MORE SARCASM}}.
This is getting a little nastier than I intended, so let's change the pace. I don't know how many of you out there have children, or how many of you have had abortions. I have my first son now. He is 6 1/2 months old now. My wife and I dated for 6 years before we married, and have been married for 5 1/2 years now. You know what? She has not had to choose an abortion, for any reason. I miss the three times a day sex now that we have a baby (OK, lets get honest, since we have been married - you married guys know what I mean;-), but I do not regret it one bit.
I saw the ultrasound at 4 months. There was a heart, and it was beating. There were arms and legs. There was a spinal cord and a head. There was even a penis. He was moving around.
What is the definition of life? What is a baby? What is innocence? Does life experience and memory have anything to do with it? If so, then what about permanent amnesia sufferers. What about Alzheimers. What about the idiot savant.
Abortion for medical reasons, maybe. This is the area where choice is appropriate. Abortion because of carelessness? Recklessness? Irresponsibility? Inconvenience? That is just plain old murder.
sane_one@wowmail.com