It always amazes me that Atheists get so bent out of shape about something they say doesn't exist... Not to mention that they *see* this thing that they say doesn't exist in just about everything....
I'm going to suggest that you might be wrong here.
The sub-prime mortgage crisis was largely due to LEGAL trading in a highly unregulated portion of the market. Yea, there where some bad actors, but for the most part the problem was the unregulated house of cards that various traders and firms built up with default swaps and a whole host of things that where traded "on paper" that most people could never understand, and I dare say you likely don't either.
Yes a few folks did illegal things and got caught as the house of cards fell and the whole scheme unwound. During the unwinding, B of A did some less than ethical things with their foreclosure proceedings and a number of people have been punished for their parts in it. B of A still is unwinding that issue with regulators and their former mortgagees and will likely face civil suits for years to go along with the investigations and possible criminal charges.
So I would contend they ARE being held accountable. Maybe not as fast as *you* would like to see, but it's happening. AND B of A has put a lot more transparency into their processes to avoid the problems in the future. They are getting their hands slapped.
You are still trying to advance an argument with nothing but conjecture. You offer no evidence but your assumptions.
Sorry, I'm not swayed.
So, your argument amounts to "blind faith" which in this case ignores the clear facts that many large corporations have been called into account in the past. You offer no evidence that many more have been overlooked and have been able to violate the law with impunity.
The government can and often has brought criminal charges on both companies and the people that run them for violating law. Having lots of money and high paid attorneys may be a buffer that slows down the process, but I can assure you that prosecutors are up to the task and can gain convictions in these cases. They've done it in the past with some very large companies, and they will do it in the future because having money may get you a good lawyer, but being guilty will still get you convicted regardless of who represents you.
Thanks for the comic relief....Everybody knows that if Unix says something, it HAS to be true....
Like the time started on January 1, 1970 and will end on January 19, 2038...
I'm trying to point folks who question which day the Sabbath is to the controlling authority on the matter, which is NOT a Roman calendar, but the religious practice of a specific group of people going back a few thousand years.... but you knew that already...
It's a log scale.. +3db is double the magnitude. So 20 to 60 is +40db which is about 13 doublings (40/3=39), or 8,192 times the original magnitude plus another 1/3 of a double which puts you almost exactly at 11,000 times the magnitude.
Engineers use db so you don't have to do all the multiplication and division to compare the numbers, you can just add and subtract. It harkens back to the days of slide rules where taking the log of a number was *easy* and then you could just add or subtract to multiply and divide.
Anechoic chambers are interesting places. The engineering department at the university had one and just walking down the hall next to it was creepy. It was almost like a huge vacuum that sucked up the sounds in the hall if the door was open. I would have loved to spend a few min in there, but I get the feeling it would not have been a pleasant experience for me.
There is that... Only I've seen some calendars that started on Monday... Traditional Jewish Sabbath is from sundown on Friday to sundown Saturday, even if we didn't actually call the days of the week by those names. This actually goes back in history some 4,000 years or more depending on when you think the Israelites left slavery Egypt.... Which was long before the Roman calendar we use today.
How's that an example of large corporations just getting a pass on having to follow the law? Seems to me that B of A is in a fight with regulators over some of their activities here and has been assessed some pretty big fines so far...
Not to mention, I'm under the impression that a number of people have been charged in connection to the events you point to, some have faced trial and where convicted. Also, an number of companies involved lost everything in this (i.e. no longer exist), and some face charges, much like Emron did.
So, which companies violated the law here that are not being held to account?
The original argument was that Large corporations are not ever called into account for violating the law. I'm asking for citations that prove that.
What you have provided is a grand example of conjecture with zero proof that companies of a certain size just "get away with it". Sure, there are some bad actors, and bad companies out there, but they DON'T get a pass. When they are discovered, they are punished like any other company.
I'm not claiming they don't ever do something wrong, I'm just saying that being a huge corporation does not exempt you from being found criminally liable and the perception otherwise is nothing more than mythology born of class envy and politics.
So I have at least one instance which proves your assertion is not exactly true... Where's your proof that "It doesn't happen" because I just proved it does.
So, you are saying B of A is definitely guilty of violating the law and don't face consequences for it? Um, they ARE under investigation by your admission. Seems that they *will* be found liable if they broke the law.
The Kessler decision had plenty of impact on the tobacco industry, They lost their appeal and where found liable for RICO violations. They've paid a LOT of money and endured other sanctions as a result of this decision.
I fail to see how this proves the point that "The US also has laws against fraud and racketeering. Doesn't seem to apply to companies over a certain size." B of A is pretty darn large as was Phillip Morris. Seems that your data supports MY position that large corporations do indeed get held to account, and that the laws DO apply to even large companies..
I know the common belief is that large corporations are evil in some way, how else do they become so big? But, apart from the current mythology, I don't see any evidence of what you claim.
There obviously ARE bad people doing bad things, some of whom work for large corporations, but as a whole, these organizations usually operate within the law. They don't "get away" with illegal stuff just because they have an army of lawyers at their disposal. Most corporations are quite concerned about not breaking the law and go out of their way to avoid even the appearance of it.
As evidence of my view, I point to the many recent examples where large corporations where indeed cited for breaking laws, fined for it and where individuals involved where convicted. Of further, where companies where found liable in civil court class action suits for their actions.
What you are claiming is mealy a common mythology, foisted on us by the likes of "Occupy Wall street" and the politicians who use class envy as a wedge issue to get votes. It is not reality true. They don't often break the law and don't get away with it when they do. It's bad business...
The US also has laws against fraud and racketeering. Doesn't seem to apply to companies over a certain size.
Citation please?
Seems to me that if what you *think* is true that there are a pile of DA's out there who would be vying for a chance to seal their re-election by reeling in the "big fish" you seem to think are there... I don't think it's very common, this fraud and racketeering by large companies you suspect...
Sunday is supposed to be a day of rest; the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. (Exodus 20:10).
I hate to break it to you, but Sunday is the FRIST day of the week, has been for at least a thousand years and the Sabbath has always been what we know as Saturday now. Just ask your local practicing Jewish person.
However, I too, wonder why this was handed out on a weekend... Government workers generally don't go to work from Friday evening though Monday morning, at least those involved in the court system. This must have been important in Korea..
Yea, well I learned to do structured program in PASCAL so I guess my roots are showing, well that and assembly where "return from subroutine" happened willy nilly at times, just like "Jump" (aka GOTO) and was a source of much agony for the careless...
Feel free to write as many returns and GOTOs into your functions as you want cause as one ole fart to another... I personally don't care HOW you wrote it as long as it runs and I don't have fix it for you. Unless you are working for me, in which case you might find yourself reading a pesky coding standard designed to scrape the rough edges off your habits so the next guy I hire can actually fix your mess after you are gone.
Returns in switch statements when no resource allocation has yet been done are clean and clear.
To quote myself from my previous post...
Still there are exceptions, but in general, one return, at the bottom, is best.
Yes, there ARE exceptions and I've done it too, usually for error cases where the function simply cannot continue, but in most cases, one return is all you need or want.
So what exactly have you DONE with your thumbs? On second thought, I don't want to know.
Actually no.. It was a now defunct Long distance carrier that got managed into the ground by a whole drawer full of dull knife executives that made millions....
It's been a topic of debate for decades, right up there with the GOTO thing... Actually they are generally the SAME arguments either way, but hey.... Who am I?
Slashdot Mirror
It always amazes me that Atheists get so bent out of shape about something they say doesn't exist... Not to mention that they *see* this thing that they say doesn't exist in just about everything....
Have a good and happy life, it's all you got..
I'm going to suggest that you might be wrong here.
The sub-prime mortgage crisis was largely due to LEGAL trading in a highly unregulated portion of the market. Yea, there where some bad actors, but for the most part the problem was the unregulated house of cards that various traders and firms built up with default swaps and a whole host of things that where traded "on paper" that most people could never understand, and I dare say you likely don't either.
Yes a few folks did illegal things and got caught as the house of cards fell and the whole scheme unwound. During the unwinding, B of A did some less than ethical things with their foreclosure proceedings and a number of people have been punished for their parts in it. B of A still is unwinding that issue with regulators and their former mortgagees and will likely face civil suits for years to go along with the investigations and possible criminal charges.
So I would contend they ARE being held accountable. Maybe not as fast as *you* would like to see, but it's happening. AND B of A has put a lot more transparency into their processes to avoid the problems in the future. They are getting their hands slapped.
You are still trying to advance an argument with nothing but conjecture. You offer no evidence but your assumptions.
Sorry, I'm not swayed.
So, your argument amounts to "blind faith" which in this case ignores the clear facts that many large corporations have been called into account in the past. You offer no evidence that many more have been overlooked and have been able to violate the law with impunity.
The government can and often has brought criminal charges on both companies and the people that run them for violating law. Having lots of money and high paid attorneys may be a buffer that slows down the process, but I can assure you that prosecutors are up to the task and can gain convictions in these cases. They've done it in the past with some very large companies, and they will do it in the future because having money may get you a good lawyer, but being guilty will still get you convicted regardless of who represents you.
Thanks for the comic relief....Everybody knows that if Unix says something, it HAS to be true....
Like the time started on January 1, 1970 and will end on January 19, 2038...
I'm trying to point folks who question which day the Sabbath is to the controlling authority on the matter, which is NOT a Roman calendar, but the religious practice of a specific group of people going back a few thousand years.... but you knew that already...
It's a log scale.. +3db is double the magnitude. So 20 to 60 is +40db which is about 13 doublings (40/3=39), or 8,192 times the original magnitude plus another 1/3 of a double which puts you almost exactly at 11,000 times the magnitude.
Engineers use db so you don't have to do all the multiplication and division to compare the numbers, you can just add and subtract. It harkens back to the days of slide rules where taking the log of a number was *easy* and then you could just add or subtract to multiply and divide.
Anechoic chambers are interesting places. The engineering department at the university had one and just walking down the hall next to it was creepy. It was almost like a huge vacuum that sucked up the sounds in the hall if the door was open. I would have loved to spend a few min in there, but I get the feeling it would not have been a pleasant experience for me.
Just because there are humans does not mean there will be light, noise or pollution.
There is where I go camping... I carry a flashlight and a propane lantern. I also snore something awful.
There is that... Only I've seen some calendars that started on Monday... Traditional Jewish Sabbath is from sundown on Friday to sundown Saturday, even if we didn't actually call the days of the week by those names. This actually goes back in history some 4,000 years or more depending on when you think the Israelites left slavery Egypt.... Which was long before the Roman calendar we use today.
How's that an example of large corporations just getting a pass on having to follow the law? Seems to me that B of A is in a fight with regulators over some of their activities here and has been assessed some pretty big fines so far...
Not to mention, I'm under the impression that a number of people have been charged in connection to the events you point to, some have faced trial and where convicted. Also, an number of companies involved lost everything in this (i.e. no longer exist), and some face charges, much like Emron did.
So, which companies violated the law here that are not being held to account?
The original argument was that Large corporations are not ever called into account for violating the law. I'm asking for citations that prove that.
What you have provided is a grand example of conjecture with zero proof that companies of a certain size just "get away with it". Sure, there are some bad actors, and bad companies out there, but they DON'T get a pass. When they are discovered, they are punished like any other company.
I'm not claiming they don't ever do something wrong, I'm just saying that being a huge corporation does not exempt you from being found criminally liable and the perception otherwise is nothing more than mythology born of class envy and politics.
Gee, seems Phillip Morris was found in violation of RICO and held liable...
http://publichealthlawcenter.o...
So I have at least one instance which proves your assertion is not exactly true... Where's your proof that "It doesn't happen" because I just proved it does.
So, you are saying B of A is definitely guilty of violating the law and don't face consequences for it? Um, they ARE under investigation by your admission. Seems that they *will* be found liable if they broke the law.
The Kessler decision had plenty of impact on the tobacco industry, They lost their appeal and where found liable for RICO violations. They've paid a LOT of money and endured other sanctions as a result of this decision.
I fail to see how this proves the point that "The US also has laws against fraud and racketeering. Doesn't seem to apply to companies over a certain size." B of A is pretty darn large as was Phillip Morris. Seems that your data supports MY position that large corporations do indeed get held to account, and that the laws DO apply to even large companies..
Again, Citation please?
I know the common belief is that large corporations are evil in some way, how else do they become so big? But, apart from the current mythology, I don't see any evidence of what you claim.
There obviously ARE bad people doing bad things, some of whom work for large corporations, but as a whole, these organizations usually operate within the law. They don't "get away" with illegal stuff just because they have an army of lawyers at their disposal. Most corporations are quite concerned about not breaking the law and go out of their way to avoid even the appearance of it.
As evidence of my view, I point to the many recent examples where large corporations where indeed cited for breaking laws, fined for it and where individuals involved where convicted. Of further, where companies where found liable in civil court class action suits for their actions.
What you are claiming is mealy a common mythology, foisted on us by the likes of "Occupy Wall street" and the politicians who use class envy as a wedge issue to get votes. It is not reality true. They don't often break the law and don't get away with it when they do. It's bad business...
Or the outside of one for that matter....
That explains a LOT actually...
Because somebody sent him a set of Samsung's?
The US already has laws for that.
The US also has laws against fraud and racketeering. Doesn't seem to apply to companies over a certain size.
Citation please?
Seems to me that if what you *think* is true that there are a pile of DA's out there who would be vying for a chance to seal their re-election by reeling in the "big fish" you seem to think are there... I don't think it's very common, this fraud and racketeering by large companies you suspect...
Sunday is supposed to be a day of rest; the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. (Exodus 20:10).
I hate to break it to you, but Sunday is the FRIST day of the week, has been for at least a thousand years and the Sabbath has always been what we know as Saturday now. Just ask your local practicing Jewish person.
However, I too, wonder why this was handed out on a weekend... Government workers generally don't go to work from Friday evening though Monday morning, at least those involved in the court system. This must have been important in Korea..
At least these days you don't go though the wringer for this...
Are you *sure* you don't work for Whirlpool? I have a kitchen full of their stuff/junk and I've been very impressed with the lack of quality.
Yea, well I learned to do structured program in PASCAL so I guess my roots are showing, well that and assembly where "return from subroutine" happened willy nilly at times, just like "Jump" (aka GOTO) and was a source of much agony for the careless...
Feel free to write as many returns and GOTOs into your functions as you want cause as one ole fart to another... I personally don't care HOW you wrote it as long as it runs and I don't have fix it for you. Unless you are working for me, in which case you might find yourself reading a pesky coding standard designed to scrape the rough edges off your habits so the next guy I hire can actually fix your mess after you are gone.
Returns in switch statements when no resource allocation has yet been done are clean and clear.
To quote myself from my previous post...
Still there are exceptions, but in general, one return, at the bottom, is best.
Yes, there ARE exceptions and I've done it too, usually for error cases where the function simply cannot continue, but in most cases, one return is all you need or want.
So what exactly have you DONE with your thumbs? On second thought, I don't want to know.
Actually no.. It was a now defunct Long distance carrier that got managed into the ground by a whole drawer full of dull knife executives that made millions....
Don't know much then eh? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...
It's been a topic of debate for decades, right up there with the GOTO thing... Actually they are generally the SAME arguments either way, but hey.... Who am I?
Wait until polio start to make the rounds with people in "iron lungs" for months.... THEN see what press coverage is like...
Remember Ebola? Yea that killed a few, but if we don't get back to vaccinating just about everybody, it's going to be expensive and deadly..