Why the hell do people ALWAYS bring Java into the discussion when talking about anything that involves the word "multi-platform"?
At the risk of being marked as another troll for talking about Java I couldn't help telling you this:
JAVA PROGRAMMERS GOT PAID MORE!
Let me be more explicit.....if they want us to write games, we wouldn't get more pay; if they want us to write high performance dialog popup gui animation etc., we wouldn't get more pay.....
But we write programs for Enterprise Application in Java and they've to pay us more!
Java is SLOW, no matter how fast you can make it run. Java is NOT AN OPTION. This discussion is NOT about Java. We've discussed Java about a million times already and I'm tired of it.
Yeah, java is tired of being compared in an area where those companies pay craps to programmers. So count java out of such discussion in the future. Appreciated.
This is just yet another ad selling Amiga game engine to games developing companies. It make use of the word 'Linux' to make it sounds as if it's a major breakthru of technologies.
Most of these companies are using their own layer of game engines one type of another, very few of them would write a big game from scratch. The difficulties in porting from one platform to another depends on the flexibility and maintainability of the game engine in use. It's common practice for a game developed on a less popular yet powerful platform then port to another one for mass-sale. First Doom for example developed on SGI. (back then, playing full version of Doom in SGI was free. ^_^ )
Larger games developing companies would not switch their own proprietary game engine to another which is out of their control.
However it might be beneficial to small-scale games developing effort, especailly when there's a big concern in supporting games in Linux.
To be honest I really wish Microsoft Windows running more stable and robust. I liked Windows, I write programs and play games with it when I was a teen. However, its marketing strategy and exponential number of bugs forced me to look for alternatives.
It's little problem in crashing for home use, but I just could not bet my career on something that could not take load and crash too often. You may say it may not be the NT to be blamed. For instance, a fax server generated 1000+ error popup that crashed my NT server. Which is to be blamed? The fax server? Yes, it's buggy, but the NT shouldn't let an app crash itself.
It's especially annoying to have been forced to use NT by management who ignore our advise but only trust sales. Knowing that your career would be at risk, is there something more annoyning than that? I know i'm not the only one experience it, and gradually people growing with a hatre toward Microsoft(of course we hate our boss already)
My story just telling two things 1) Crash and hacked are inevitable, but the attitudes of those management and Microsoft's representatives make our life very difficult. 2) Microsoft should have been dealing with bugs and exploits more seriously. Their premium service level is up to installation of patches. Really. That's very frustrating. I can understand that, due to the closeness of the source, very few people in microsoft could debug the underlying bugs that might occur.
Imagine, would you continue to support a brand of car from a commpany putting safety at lesser priority but only focusing on making good sales? I wouldn't risk my life with it. Bad software wouldn't kill us, but would kill our career.
Anyway, I'm not writing to gain karma, I'm honored to have been marked informative, but all I want is to share my opinion with wises like you.
However, in my view, it's wrong to judge/. has any intention to attack a particular verndor simply because they mod up a certain kind of comments. I do believe the mod is very objective. When I filter out comments with low score I got very good articles to read from the rest. Isn't it great?
Oracle provides enterprise level database system. With the help of Java, Oracle database can run on all major linux distros, including Debian GNU/Linux, though I only support Redhat.
Most people dislike Java, scold Oracle. However, they fail to realize that Enterprise computing is about proprietary.
Progress on Java in Linux is too slow. Mainly due to the fact that Linux zealots hate Java, hate anything non-GPL. Oracle's success in porting to Linux tells us that Java is a bridge between Enterprise computing and Linux.
Please don't compare Java with other languages like C++, C#. People use Java not because of its superiority in all aspect, in fact it's not. It's the high portability impressive.
In a related article in slashdot concerning id software stop supporting Linux's software as there are multiple versions and everchanging kernel.
id's worrying is not coming out of air. The challenge is how to support multiple version of LInux? Take a look at the sucess of Oracle.
Oracle, the most popular enterprise scale database system, has migrated to Linux months ago. The secret is to use Java in its core part. It's embedded language, stored procedure is in Java, installation process reply on Java, and EJB is an integrated part of its database system
The advantage of using Java is that it is not bound to a particular OS. It makes portability easier and could save a lot of cost in the long run.
For example, in Oracle's documentation said that the only Linux supported is Redhat. However, I found no problem in running 8i under other distro. like Debian.
IBM is the largest employer of Java(surprse, not SUN). Though I don't see DB2 is in any way buy on Java like Oracle does, but I've no doubt in the futher IBM will migrate more of their products with Java.
At this point Linux zealog is about to start to flame, saying Java suck, slow and closed source, etc. I don't understand why Linux community hate Java that much. Whenever I talked about Java in #debain/irc.debian.org I got flamed, and recieved standard response 'Java sux'. They then started comparison with C, C++, CL, Smalltalk...
Oracle's story tells us Java is actually helping Linux to gain enterprise and business support. Sadly, due to the strong resistance from Linux community, Java's progress in Linux is very slow. Java is still the slowest when run on Linux compare with other OS.
Sorry I were a bit carried away thus lacking of details.
I could not tell you which government, but bare with me due to the sensitivity of my position.
I just gave you a luser story about one of our information website, which run on IIS4.
In feb this year, a hacker defaced it. Report had shown that they took 5 hours to restore the website. Woo quick, but I guess it's just the time they took to restore exactly same crap. How do I know, because the website was hacked again next day.
Did they do anything after the second hack? They did, they called Microsoft for help. The MS representative in suit install the latest patch in the NT server as a fix. Yeah like patch should solve all the problems! Come on, shouldn't you need to find out what had happned before fixing it? (remind me my mom fix the TV by hitting it, she can be a MS representative.)
Guess what, third hack. This time they took it down immediately, not even let the press realize it. The site was taken down, move elsewhere, IP cancelled.
Even after this embarrassing instance, they still insist on using MSIIS. OOOOk, next patch will fix everything.
About the Flash thing, they do a lot of flashes animations at the front page. It's good to look at - at the first time, but the second time, the third time....They don't care how long it takes a citizen to load the freaking front page, they just want it look good.
Overloading? So you don't believe IIS would down after certain amount of load? I believe many of the surfers here saw this before:
Microsoft ODBC failure...blah blah
Next time feed above message to Google will hit our website. ^_^
If only I could tell you our government's website, and have you slashdot it. It will then crash even before the first troll post his first post.
Back in time when I were working for IBM. All 3270 terminal keyboards has a 'Record' key. When pressing it all keystrokes are logged and can be replayed.
Very few people were aware of it as the 3270 keyboard is freaking complicated.
I read a story about Canada government installing spying camera on most lamp-post.Our government(I dare not tell you which or I'd be in jail tomorrow)tap every single phone line.
America movie "Seven" said US government actaully keeping track of those borrowing cults books.
I know my boss secretly trojan my computer, I entertain him by installing a fakeBO for his pleasure.
Of course, I won't forget to install a key-logger on his computer.
It's very hard for production system. Patching a NT system is even harder.
I could explain in detail, but rather I just give you examples.
I was asked to upgrade the patch from SP3 to SP4, on a Domino Lotus Notes server.
After the upgrade all users constantly received new message notifications but most were false alarm. We tried to upgrade(and even downgrade) the Domino Lotus Notes server in vain. We could do nothing else but downgrade the patch
Unfortunately, the system couldn't restart after uninstall the patch. Then we...(I skipped the sad ending here)
We learn from this story that patching a NT is very destructive, especially we don't know what would be affected after the patch
To be fair I gave you another story in similar situation caused by apply 'application update'(aka patch, fixes, whatever) to a HP server.
It's Y2K patch, along with all other 'application update'. I cut the story short, our/var blow up - Downtime - we were blamed.
However, difference in patching UNIX is that we could actually select a particular fix to apply. In NT we shall install the patch and pray.
I really wish NT works well. To be honest I am not an anti-Microsoft, but I just wouldn't beg my career on it.
People blames vulnerabilities in some products, in fact most of the problems may cause by lack of awareness in computer security.
Businessmen rely on the ecommerce developers to deal with security, but their knowledge in such field may be very questionable.
Computer security, most likely, is not a mandatory subject of IT graduate, very high chance that a skillful programmer has no knowledge in security.
What's so bad about it? I've encountered three instances that explains everything:
1) I suggested to a team of web admins seperate the database system from the web server for security reason. End up I'm considered by them as trouble-maker.
2) SSH, as we all know, has password and RSA authentication, the latter is supposed to be having higher security level than the former. A person installed both authentication methods because he want to have high security of RSA and convenience of password auth. I asked him, why would a hacker bother to break your RSA while he could take a easy path to break your password authentication?
3) I tried to explain to my peers that brute force attack is possible so we must set some policies(expiration, length and format of password, etc.) to our password system. They laughed and said brute force attack is a joke because that'd generate a lot of log entry and there are a huge delay in login retry.....
I could go on. I found that most people do not bother to take to much time on security things but rather rely on the default secuirty of the packages they used. E.g. RedHat has many security holes come with default installation, but since many people thing Linux is secured, then RedHat is secured.
Just an example, I didn't say RedHat is bad. Many others might be more worse.
Yes Java has preformance problem for its VM approach. It's a trade-off for portability, Oracle has seen importance in portability and started to migrate its product to Java - e.g. installer and embedded language in Java.
However, I wonder why people always compare its performace with C++. C is faster than C++, ASM is even faster....if your needs is performance just go for alternatives, why bother comparing unrelated issue?
Java can create real reusable code called beans. It's quite difficult to distribute reusable C++ classes. With beans you can actually create blackbox/resellable objects and distribute them.
I don't want to spam you with the advantages of beans. Go to IBM Alphaworks, download a bean(e.g. LEDclock), follow the readme to create an app with beans in VisualAge for Java. You don't need to write a line of code to get things done with beans!!
Beside they both have the word 'Java'....Java has nothing do with Javascript. May be you meant JSP?
The first time I heard people misunderstood this I did laugh, but after thousands times of it.....
Moreover, til now people still think Java is solely for web presentation. Some even compare it with some web goodies like Flash saying how they are better than Java in web....while not realize that many of them are built in java applets.
Java has already shifted its importance from client side to server side; servlet, EJB, etc.
Slashdot Mirror
Why the hell do people ALWAYS bring Java into the discussion when talking about anything that involves the word "multi-platform"?
At the risk of being marked as another troll for talking about Java I couldn't help telling you this:
JAVA PROGRAMMERS GOT PAID MORE!
Let me be more explicit.....if they want us to write games, we wouldn't get more pay; if they want us to write high performance dialog popup gui animation etc., we wouldn't get more pay.....
But we write programs for Enterprise Application in Java and they've to pay us more!
Java is SLOW, no matter how fast you can make it run. Java is NOT AN OPTION. This discussion is NOT about Java. We've discussed Java about a million times already and I'm tired of it.
Yeah, java is tired of being compared in an area where those companies pay craps to programmers. So count java out of such discussion in the future. Appreciated.
This is just yet another ad selling Amiga game engine to games developing companies. It make use of the word 'Linux' to make it sounds as if it's a major breakthru of technologies.
Most of these companies are using their own layer of game engines one type of another, very few of them would write a big game from scratch. The difficulties in porting from one platform to another depends on the flexibility and maintainability of the game engine in use. It's common practice for a game developed on a less popular yet powerful platform then port to another one for mass-sale. First Doom for example developed on SGI. (back then, playing full version of Doom in SGI was free. ^_^ )
Larger games developing companies would not switch their own proprietary game engine to another which is out of their control.
However it might be beneficial to small-scale games developing effort, especailly when there's a big concern in supporting games in Linux.
I wish you could read my reply sometime.
To be honest I really wish Microsoft Windows running more stable and robust. I liked Windows, I write programs and play games with it when I was a teen. However, its marketing strategy and exponential number of bugs forced me to look for alternatives.
It's little problem in crashing for home use, but I just could not bet my career on something that could not take load and crash too often. You may say it may not be the NT to be blamed. For instance, a fax server generated 1000+ error popup that crashed my NT server. Which is to be blamed? The fax server? Yes, it's buggy, but the NT shouldn't let an app crash itself.
It's especially annoying to have been forced to use NT by management who ignore our advise but only trust sales. Knowing that your career would be at risk, is there something more annoyning than that? I know i'm not the only one experience it, and gradually people growing with a hatre toward Microsoft(of course we hate our boss already)
My story just telling two things 1) Crash and hacked are inevitable, but the attitudes of those management and Microsoft's representatives make our life very difficult. 2) Microsoft should have been dealing with bugs and exploits more seriously. Their premium service level is up to installation of patches. Really. That's very frustrating. I can understand that, due to the closeness of the source, very few people in microsoft could debug the underlying bugs that might occur.
Imagine, would you continue to support a brand of car from a commpany putting safety at lesser priority but only focusing on making good sales? I wouldn't risk my life with it. Bad software wouldn't kill us, but would kill our career.
Anyway, I'm not writing to gain karma, I'm honored to have been marked informative, but all I want is to share my opinion with wises like you.
However, in my view, it's wrong to judge /. has any intention to attack a particular verndor simply because they mod up a certain kind of comments. I do believe the mod is very objective. When I filter out comments with low score I got very good articles to read from the rest. Isn't it great?
My apology for my weak English and tedious reply
Oracle provides enterprise level database system. With the help of Java, Oracle database can run on all major linux distros, including Debian GNU/Linux, though I only support Redhat.
Most people dislike Java, scold Oracle. However, they fail to realize that Enterprise computing is about proprietary.
Progress on Java in Linux is too slow. Mainly due to the fact that Linux zealots hate Java, hate anything non-GPL. Oracle's success in porting to Linux tells us that Java is a bridge between Enterprise computing and Linux.
Please don't compare Java with other languages like C++, C#. People use Java not because of its superiority in all aspect, in fact it's not. It's the high portability impressive.
In a related article in slashdot concerning id software stop supporting Linux's software as there are multiple versions and everchanging kernel.
id's worrying is not coming out of air. The challenge is how to support multiple version of LInux? Take a look at the sucess of Oracle.
Oracle, the most popular enterprise scale database system, has migrated to Linux months ago. The secret is to use Java in its core part. It's embedded language, stored procedure is in Java, installation process reply on Java, and EJB is an integrated part of its database system
The advantage of using Java is that it is not bound to a particular OS. It makes portability easier and could save a lot of cost in the long run.
For example, in Oracle's documentation said that the only Linux supported is Redhat. However, I found no problem in running 8i under other distro. like Debian.
IBM is the largest employer of Java(surprse, not SUN). Though I don't see DB2 is in any way buy on Java like Oracle does, but I've no doubt in the futher IBM will migrate more of their products with Java.
At this point Linux zealog is about to start to flame, saying Java suck, slow and closed source, etc. I don't understand why Linux community hate Java that much. Whenever I talked about Java in #debain/irc.debian.org I got flamed, and recieved standard response 'Java sux'. They then started comparison with C, C++, CL, Smalltalk...
Oracle's story tells us Java is actually helping Linux to gain enterprise and business support. Sadly, due to the strong resistance from Linux community, Java's progress in Linux is very slow. Java is still the slowest when run on Linux compare with other OS.
^_^
Given high memory, cache and processing power, the IIS can crash in the speed of light.
Sorry I were a bit carried away thus lacking of details.
I could not tell you which government, but bare with me due to the sensitivity of my position.
I just gave you a luser story about one of our information website, which run on IIS4.
In feb this year, a hacker defaced it. Report had shown that they took 5 hours to restore the website. Woo quick, but I guess it's just the time they took to restore exactly same crap. How do I know, because the website was hacked again next day.
Did they do anything after the second hack? They did, they called Microsoft for help. The MS representative in suit install the latest patch in the NT server as a fix. Yeah like patch should solve all the problems! Come on, shouldn't you need to find out what had happned before fixing it? (remind me my mom fix the TV by hitting it, she can be a MS representative.)
Guess what, third hack. This time they took it down immediately, not even let the press realize it. The site was taken down, move elsewhere, IP cancelled.
Even after this embarrassing instance, they still insist on using MSIIS. OOOOk, next patch will fix everything.
About the Flash thing, they do a lot of flashes animations at the front page. It's good to look at - at the first time, but the second time, the third time....They don't care how long it takes a citizen to load the freaking front page, they just want it look good.
Overloading? So you don't believe IIS would down after certain amount of load? I believe many of the surfers here saw this before:
Microsoft ODBC failure...blah blah
Next time feed above message to Google will hit our website. ^_^
If only I could tell you our government's website, and have you slashdot it. It will then crash even before the first troll post his first post.
Don't use Microsoft IIS server FOR GOD'S SAKE.
It's EXTREMELY SLOW, crash at high load, and yet still want to play tones of Flash which bored readers.
Our government's(non-us) website has been hacked over and over again. Get a clue.
Back in time when I were working for IBM. All 3270 terminal keyboards has a 'Record' key. When pressing it all keystrokes are logged and can be replayed.
Very few people were aware of it as the 3270 keyboard is freaking complicated.
Story of that kind is not really surprising.
I read a story about Canada government installing spying camera on most lamp-post.Our government(I dare not tell you which or I'd be in jail tomorrow)tap every single phone line.
America movie "Seven" said US government actaully keeping track of those borrowing cults books.
I know my boss secretly trojan my computer, I entertain him by installing a fakeBO for his pleasure.
Of course, I won't forget to install a key-logger on his computer.
Is patching really that hard?
It's very hard for production system. Patching a NT system is even harder.
I could explain in detail, but rather I just give you examples.
I was asked to upgrade the patch from SP3 to SP4, on a Domino Lotus Notes server.
After the upgrade all users constantly received new message notifications but most were false alarm. We tried to upgrade(and even downgrade) the Domino Lotus Notes server in vain. We could do nothing else but downgrade the patch
Unfortunately, the system couldn't restart after uninstall the patch. Then we...(I skipped the sad ending here)
We learn from this story that patching a NT is very destructive, especially we don't know what would be affected after the patch
To be fair I gave you another story in similar situation caused by apply 'application update'(aka patch, fixes, whatever) to a HP server.
It's Y2K patch, along with all other 'application update'. I cut the story short, our /var blow up - Downtime - we were blamed.
However, difference in patching UNIX is that we could actually select a particular fix to apply. In NT we shall install the patch and pray.
I really wish NT works well. To be honest I am not an anti-Microsoft, but I just wouldn't beg my career on it.
People blames vulnerabilities in some products, in fact most of the problems may cause by lack of awareness in computer security.
Businessmen rely on the ecommerce developers to deal with security, but their knowledge in such field may be very questionable.
Computer security, most likely, is not a mandatory subject of IT graduate, very high chance that a skillful programmer has no knowledge in security.
What's so bad about it? I've encountered three instances that explains everything:
1) I suggested to a team of web admins seperate the database system from the web server for security reason. End up I'm considered by them as trouble-maker.
2) SSH, as we all know, has password and RSA authentication, the latter is supposed to be having higher security level than the former. A person installed both authentication methods because he want to have high security of RSA and convenience of password auth. I asked him, why would a hacker bother to break your RSA while he could take a easy path to break your password authentication?
3) I tried to explain to my peers that brute force attack is possible so we must set some policies(expiration, length and format of password, etc.) to our password system. They laughed and said brute force attack is a joke because that'd generate a lot of log entry and there are a huge delay in login retry.....
I could go on. I found that most people do not bother to take to much time on security things but rather rely on the default secuirty of the packages they used. E.g. RedHat has many security holes come with default installation, but since many people thing Linux is secured, then RedHat is secured.
Just an example, I didn't say RedHat is bad. Many others might be more worse.
Just write to support your view. Sometime I'd simply answer to them with:
I got paid more because I know Java, I don't know why.Yes Java has preformance problem for its VM approach. It's a trade-off for portability, Oracle has seen importance in portability and started to migrate its product to Java - e.g. installer and embedded language in Java.
However, I wonder why people always compare its performace with C++. C is faster than C++, ASM is even faster....if your needs is performance just go for alternatives, why bother comparing unrelated issue?
Java can create real reusable code called beans. It's quite difficult to distribute reusable C++ classes. With beans you can actually create blackbox/resellable objects and distribute them.
I don't want to spam you with the advantages of beans. Go to IBM Alphaworks, download a bean(e.g. LEDclock), follow the readme to create an app with beans in VisualAge for Java. You don't need to write a line of code to get things done with beans!!
Don't believe me, try it.
Beside they both have the word 'Java'....Java has nothing do with Javascript. May be you meant JSP?
The first time I heard people misunderstood this I did laugh, but after thousands times of it.....
Moreover, til now people still think Java is solely for web presentation. Some even compare it with some web goodies like Flash saying how they are better than Java in web....while not realize that many of them are built in java applets.
Java has already shifted its importance from client side to server side; servlet, EJB, etc.
Is he going to write a program to automate the making of his 'autobiography'?