LTS is the only thing that makes gnome-shell worth it, as they break extensions ever point release. all my extensions that weren't broken by 3.4 where broken by 3.6
it makes the amount of work needed to maintain quality extensions prohibative for developers who have a life doing something other than re-writing their extensions every six months.
because it sucks, and they had to use it for 3 seconds before installing something else. Its kind of a wish that things would "just work" out of the box, like they did in 11.10 and 11.04.
Normal human beings aren't allowed to have negtive opinions or critize things?
a Sat Phone is a good comparison feature and size wise.
Star Trek woefully underestimated computer technology, and over estimated starship technology. Not suprisingly. The world was enthralled by the space race, in the late 60s. No one cared about computers.
"Yup, the KC-135's (introduced in 1957), I worked on in the 80's, and my father worked on in the 60's. They're still in active service today, with projected use through 2040. But yeah, avionics upgrades out the yin yang."
Military aircraft might have the same model numbers, but the guts will change throughout the service life. Even if the serial numbers, and even the airframe are the same, there is no KC135 in service that is the same parts you touched in the 80s, or your dad in the 60s.
Specifiably the electronics get overhauled every couple of years, to be retrofitted to new model specifications. same with the B52. the basic design has been in service forever, but the plane has been overhauled many times on the inside.
"As for cars, as long as they allow '68-'72 Chevys on the road, i'll be happy." not without replacing your valve seats, to make sure new lead free gas doesn't chew them to shreds. Find me a 68-72 chevy on the road that hasn't been overhauled. not entirely dissimilar. But sure, they'll be on the road, with QQ plates. This doesn't affect anyone but a handful of collectors, people who don't depend on these old cars.
the solution is simply recompiling for 64 bits, easier than changing valves
"Say what you want about Microsoft and Windows 8, but at least they actually tried building something on their own, instead of directly copying what was popular."
they copied from Gnome-Shell on Gnome 3. Ironicly, copying what was un-popular
Linux on the desktop wasn't a failure, its just the result of free/open hating from a bunch of cock big corporate types. There is nothing technically wrong with it. It's just not product, no matter how goot it is, can stand the scoffing of microsoft trained technicitians, corporate sponsored "journalists", who laugh at the choice of using something that hasn't been used exclusively for the last 20 years. "DURR NO ONE GOT FIRED FOR BUYING MICROSOFT TM"
But its perfectly OK to get a one-size-fits-all desktop.
*cue "missing the point" zealots pointing out that windows comes in several versions(home, corporate, pro, etc...)
"That's not how it works, you dumb shit" actually, that is how you works you dumb shit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time#Representing_the_number
read, and get edumicated before you post!
" time_t has been widened to 64 bits. In the negative direction, this goes back more than twenty times the age of the universe and in the positive direction for approximately 293 billion years."
So, given that all modern hardware is 64 bit, just about all modern OSs have the option of the same. So you run 64bit OS on 64 bit hardware, and problem solved. 64bit has been the standard for the last 5 years. Linux has had 64bit support since 2005, and for the past 3, 64 bit has been the recommended install.
TODAY 32 bit UNIX systems are legacy. both in hardware and software. There are 64 bit drop in solutions for just about everything. The way TIME works in UNIX, a simple recompile against 64 bit libraries with a 64 bit system clock will fix the program.
I cannot see a computer system made today(guarunteed to be 64 bit), being in use in 25 years.
1. Cars will be 5 years past QQ plates, rebuiling all new custom aftermarket electronics from scratch will be an option for collectors. No one else is going to care.
2. Airplanes generally retire after around 10 years. There is no reason to expect 25 year old airplanes sitll flying, without of course many many many major overhauls, to include electronics.
3. IBM only supports mainframes for around ~10 years. Oh mainframes were 64 bit before anything else. UNAFFECTED. http://www-03.ibm.com/support/techdocs/atsmastr.nsf/WebIndex/TD105503
4. the useful life of a desktop computer is around 5-7 years. it might get a secondary life used for "projects" that don't require modern CPU power, giving it a secondary life of another 7-10 years, as legacy, doing basic tasks.
This is any machine you'd likely do accounting, business, or any sort of complicated financial transactions that sits on a desk, or in a server room. Please note, mainframes and most mini computers went 64 bit in the 1990s. x86 and ARM are the last to do so.
After 15-20 years, they have passed the threshold of "legacy" into "obsolete", and "unsupported". 20 years ago, was 1993 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P6_%28microarchitecture%29
before the P6.
Now lets look even further 25 years ago: 1988 http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/num/80386.htm
the 386. Just recently retired from mainline linux kernel support.
given that most new UNIX systems are now 64 bit to include new ARM machines, I don't see a scenario in 25 years where we will be using anything that requires the date to work.
will most embedded systems need the date to work as an absolute, ot just need to count seconds? Why does an industrial robot care if its 2038 or 1901?
in the warped mind of fascists, abrahamic religious fundies(be it christian, islam, or jew), and other violent reactionaries, having a diffrent point of view is considered fucking with someone, as are various, fairly normal activities, varying by brand.
"Also since a fake CD or other way to get around copy protection is so trivial in linux the game studios were worried about getting paid." More FUD
1. If your going to copy games to begin with, you can just as easily copy windows games in linux, or OSX. You can play most windows games in wine. How well? Thats depending on the game.
You ca
2. "fake cds" don't get around copy protection. There is nothing special about Linux that makes it easier to, or more apt to crack CD keys. I don't see how physically copying data makes games easier to pirate. Most windows cd burning programs like nero have an option to "copy disk". Its just in linux, there are better file handling utilities.
Its not my fault that modern linux desktops come with the functionality of:
winzip + winrar, plus every other archive format divix and every other codec you'd ever come accross. magic iso burner nero cd burner Office
"Are there any benefits in terms of speed or reliability?"
yes, and most complete lack of adware/badgerware/spyware, because most little apps are open source, and don't try to spy on you, or impede your function to get you to buy the full version.
Linux is really fast, drivers are better. Oh yeah, most drivers work out of the box.
don't believe me, try the linux mint installer CD. you can use mint off the CD, without making any changes. If you don't like it, you can remove the CD, and you are back to normal.
http://linuxmint.com
If you do like it, you can install it from the same CD.
it costs you 10 cents for a burnable DVD and 1 hour of your time.
"Yes, clunky. For one, you can't install stuff to a location of your own choosing without dropping to console. No, they'll always be installed system-wide and in the default location"
seriously?
lets compare, this to windows of which software is distributed as self extracting installing executable files with no consitance in interface, and you leave it to the installer program to update some registry so it can be uninstalled, and trust it. then how do you upgrade software in windows? MS software can be updated through a web interface, secured by known to be broken SSL. Further compare this to OSX where you need to drag the program into the "applications" folder convientaly hidden in system. Compare this to Linux with one click installs 3 years before the app store.
Now, as far as default install location goes, why does anyone who is not an advanced user need to modify this?, the type that can be expected to use a command line.
Another great feature of linux package management is that third party software never gets installed with a program you get from official repos. Add ons are generally other packages, with optional non-coerced options for installing.
Now lets get to updates. Clunky is running 10 programs at once to update your windows system, with exe installers and everything, all which might crash because your running other upgraders/installers/uninstallers.
If you really want to talk about "clunky" package management, lets talk about non MS software on windows.
1. What does MS have for package management? anything that compares to even slackware's primative system? They have still easy to hack web app updates. Linux systems have GPG signed packages. You can even add third party repos to make all packages on the system update together.
Don'e get me started on microsoft's C++ redistributables. GLIBC has been ABI stable since 4.1 which was like what, EONs ago?
If you need packages in linux, they are pulled, from a central repo, which is managed and supported, not installed by your shitty app. Only one set of libraries.
2. inconsistant buggy desktop enviroments??? you mean like windows 8. Here is a fuc
3. Drivers. laughable. Linux had USB 3 drivers 3 years before windows. There is right now a giant glitch with windows USB3 drivers, where linux has rock solid USB3 support. Hands down. Most drivers are baked into the kernel. If they are modules, most systems will autoprobe them at boot.
Windows has to carefully manage drivers. Linux is so idiot proof, the concept of a "Live OS", is viable. One OS installed on a CD or USB stick will work on virtually all desktops, no driver installs needed.
I've used linux live OSs on many many many machines. rarely do you find unsupported hardware. I can probably name them. the old broadcom 43xx series wireless chips need firmware which is license restricted, but otherwise work well with the b43. They haven't been made for years. (superceded by b44xxx, which works as intended), and a few intel cards which need easy to include non-kernel drivers.'
4. buggy desktop - read any review of windows 8. read the feature list and it sounds like gnome 3, released 3 years ago.
only diffrence, people can un-install gnome3 and use other desktops.
which believe it or not, are compatibly thanks to freedesktop.org standards. My desktop from XFCE works in KDE. So do my settings. And all the desktop managers will recognize and list the major DMs, and even enlightenment.
So don't believe the FUD. the only people who write horribly unsupported crappy software is MS, its because for years there was the illusision that you had not other choice, and FUD like the above comment.
The only real problem with linux is the lack of AAA games, and big name software titles, much of that has to do with Windows relentless campaign of FUD dirrected at GNU, Linux, and associated projects, and community as a whole.
Steam is the beginning of the end. There might be a few titles on Linux to start, but there will be more, and it will convince more companies to target linux.
Once this happens, people are going to ask why they give a shit about windows in the first place.
" I was listening to the NRA's president on NPR last week and he was adamant that mentally disturbed people should be allowed to have guns"
"mentally disturbed" is not a real condition, it seems more and more to be a catchphrase do describe people you don't like, outliers, and political and social enemies, not based in science, but old wives tales, superstition, and stereotypes. Its been used to dehumanize and disenfranchise the rights of citizens.
I don't want to
you know that kid of there, he looks weird, mabey he smells funny. Mabey he's drawing guns, or hacking computers, we have no idea what he's really doing except he doesn't like us, or recognize out social status. He's mentally disturbed.
Slashdot Mirror
12.04 has gnome 3.4.
LTS is the only thing that makes gnome-shell worth it, as they break extensions ever point release. all my extensions that weren't broken by 3.4 where broken by 3.6
it makes the amount of work needed to maintain quality extensions prohibative for developers who have a life doing something other than re-writing their extensions every six months.
because it sucks, and they had to use it for 3 seconds before installing something else. Its kind of a wish that things would "just work" out of the box, like they did in 11.10 and 11.04.
Normal human beings aren't allowed to have negtive opinions or critize things?
I think you might need the meds actually.
gnome-shell user here.
I'm running 3.4 on 12.04, and will be using XFCE when upgrading because 3.6 breaks all my extensions.
a Sat Phone is a good comparison feature and size wise.
Star Trek woefully underestimated computer technology, and over estimated starship technology. Not suprisingly. The world was enthralled by the space race, in the late 60s. No one cared about computers.
the report is meant to give the die hard microsofties something to believe in.
Although it won't stand up to scrunity by the outside world it doesn't have to. It will keep the faithful, faithful
"Yup, the KC-135's (introduced in 1957), I worked on in the 80's, and my father worked on in the 60's. They're still in active service today, with projected use through 2040. But yeah, avionics upgrades out the yin yang."
Military aircraft might have the same model numbers, but the guts will change throughout the service life. Even if the serial numbers, and even the airframe are the same, there is no KC135 in service that is the same parts you touched in the 80s, or your dad in the 60s.
Specifiably the electronics get overhauled every couple of years, to be retrofitted to new model specifications. same with the B52. the basic design has been in service forever, but the plane has been overhauled many times on the inside.
"As for cars, as long as they allow '68-'72 Chevys on the road, i'll be happy."
not without replacing your valve seats, to make sure new lead free gas doesn't chew them to shreds. Find me a 68-72 chevy on the road that hasn't been overhauled. not entirely dissimilar. But sure, they'll be on the road, with QQ plates. This doesn't affect anyone but a handful of collectors, people who don't depend on these old cars.
the solution is simply recompiling for 64 bits, easier than changing valves
the only way it should be affected is if your files had a negative date, before 1970
otherwise just pad the 31 most significant bits with zeros. converting a 32bit signed to 64 bit signed interger should be trivial.
"Say what you want about Microsoft and Windows 8, but at least they actually tried building something on their own, instead of directly copying what was popular."
they copied from Gnome-Shell on Gnome 3. Ironicly, copying what was un-popular
Linux on the desktop wasn't a failure, its just the result of free/open hating from a bunch of cock big corporate types. There is nothing technically wrong with it. It's just not product, no matter how goot it is, can stand the scoffing of microsoft trained technicitians, corporate sponsored "journalists", who laugh at the choice of using something that hasn't been used exclusively for the last 20 years. "DURR NO ONE GOT FIRED FOR BUYING MICROSOFT TM"
But its perfectly OK to get a one-size-fits-all desktop.
*cue "missing the point" zealots pointing out that windows comes in several versions(home, corporate, pro, etc...)
source please.
there is no winphone market.
They will take symbian's marketshare in the developing world, which is huge, and largely unsupported now.
eventually they might go after android and iOS. You need to start somewhere, and they found a good place to start.
"That's not how it works, you dumb shit"
actually, that is how you works you dumb shit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time#Representing_the_number
read, and get edumicated before you post!
" time_t has been widened to 64 bits. In the negative direction, this goes back more than twenty times the age of the universe and in the positive direction for approximately 293 billion years."
So, given that all modern hardware is 64 bit, just about all modern OSs have the option of the same. So you run 64bit OS on 64 bit hardware, and problem solved. 64bit has been the standard for the last 5 years. Linux has had 64bit support since 2005, and for the past 3, 64 bit has been the recommended install.
TODAY 32 bit UNIX systems are legacy. both in hardware and software. There are 64 bit drop in solutions for just about everything. The way TIME works in UNIX, a simple recompile against 64 bit libraries with a 64 bit system clock will fix the program.
I cannot see a computer system made today(guarunteed to be 64 bit), being in use in 25 years.
1. Cars will be 5 years past QQ plates, rebuiling all new custom aftermarket electronics from scratch will be an option for collectors. No one else is going to care.
2. Airplanes generally retire after around 10 years. There is no reason to expect 25 year old airplanes sitll flying, without of course many many many major overhauls, to include electronics.
3. IBM only supports mainframes for around ~10 years. Oh mainframes were 64 bit before anything else. UNAFFECTED.
http://www-03.ibm.com/support/techdocs/atsmastr.nsf/WebIndex/TD105503
4. the useful life of a desktop computer is around 5-7 years. it might get a secondary life used for "projects" that don't require modern CPU power, giving it a secondary life of another 7-10 years, as legacy, doing basic tasks.
This is any machine you'd likely do accounting, business, or any sort of complicated financial transactions that sits on a desk, or in a server room. Please note, mainframes and most mini computers went 64 bit in the 1990s. x86 and ARM are the last to do so.
After 15-20 years, they have passed the threshold of "legacy" into "obsolete", and "unsupported". 20 years ago, was 1993
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P6_%28microarchitecture%29
before the P6.
Now lets look even further 25 years ago: 1988
http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/num/80386.htm
the 386. Just recently retired from mainline linux kernel support.
given that most new UNIX systems are now 64 bit to include new ARM machines, I don't see a scenario in 25 years where we will be using anything that requires the date to work.
will most embedded systems need the date to work as an absolute, ot just need to count seconds? Why does an industrial robot care if its 2038 or 1901?
"32bit unsigned, not signed!"
no you heard correct.
"What'd be the negative timestamps for? Ages before 1970?"
but you managed to guess this correctly.
so does the US government with drone strikes?
are we talking about one hacking attempt, done one place?
in the warped mind of fascists, abrahamic religious fundies(be it christian, islam, or jew), and other violent reactionaries, having a diffrent point of view is considered fucking with someone, as are various, fairly normal activities, varying by brand.
with all respect.
not all Shi'ites are frothing at the mouth lunatics.
Just like not all Sunnis are takfuri, or even worse, wahabis.
--the last sane American left, it feels sometimes.
"Also since a fake CD or other way to get around copy protection is so trivial in linux the game studios were worried about getting paid."
More FUD
1. If your going to copy games to begin with, you can just as easily copy windows games in linux, or OSX. You can play most windows games in wine. How well? Thats depending on the game.
You ca
2. "fake cds" don't get around copy protection. There is nothing special about Linux that makes it easier to, or more apt to crack CD keys. I don't see how physically copying data makes games easier to pirate. Most windows cd burning programs like nero have an option to "copy disk". Its just in linux, there are better file handling utilities.
Its not my fault that modern linux desktops come with the functionality of:
winzip + winrar, plus every other archive format
divix and every other codec you'd ever come accross.
magic iso burner
nero cd burner
Office
"Are there any benefits in terms of speed or reliability?"
yes, and most complete lack of adware/badgerware/spyware, because most little apps are open source, and don't try to spy on you, or impede your function to get you to buy the full version.
Linux is really fast, drivers are better. Oh yeah, most drivers work out of the box.
don't believe me, try the linux mint installer CD. you can use mint off the CD, without making any changes. If you don't like it, you can remove the CD, and you are back to normal.
http://linuxmint.com
If you do like it, you can install it from the same CD.
it costs you 10 cents for a burnable DVD and 1 hour of your time.
"by PRMan "
this.
"Yes, clunky. For one, you can't install stuff to a location of your own choosing without dropping to console. No, they'll always be installed system-wide and in the default location"
seriously?
lets compare, this to windows of which software is distributed as self extracting installing executable files with no consitance in interface, and you leave it to the installer program to update some registry so it can be uninstalled, and trust it. then how do you upgrade software in windows? MS software can be updated through a web interface, secured by known to be broken SSL. Further compare this to OSX where you need to drag the program into the "applications" folder convientaly hidden in system. Compare this to Linux with one click installs 3 years before the app store.
Now, as far as default install location goes, why does anyone who is not an advanced user need to modify this?, the type that can be expected to use a command line.
Another great feature of linux package management is that third party software never gets installed with a program you get from official repos. Add ons are generally other packages, with optional non-coerced options for installing.
Now lets get to updates. Clunky is running 10 programs at once to update your windows system, with exe installers and everything, all which might crash because your running other upgraders/installers/uninstallers.
If you really want to talk about "clunky" package management, lets talk about non MS software on windows.
1999 called, they want their strawman back.
1. What does MS have for package management? anything that compares to even slackware's primative system? They have still easy to hack web app updates. Linux systems have GPG signed packages. You can even add third party repos to make all packages on the system update together.
Don'e get me started on microsoft's C++ redistributables. GLIBC has been ABI stable since 4.1 which was like what, EONs ago?
If you need packages in linux, they are pulled, from a central repo, which is managed and supported, not installed by your shitty app. Only one set of libraries.
2. inconsistant buggy desktop enviroments??? you mean like windows 8. Here is a fuc
3. Drivers. laughable. Linux had USB 3 drivers 3 years before windows. There is right now a giant glitch with windows USB3 drivers, where linux has rock solid USB3 support. Hands down. Most drivers are baked into the kernel. If they are modules, most systems will autoprobe them at boot.
Windows has to carefully manage drivers. Linux is so idiot proof, the concept of a "Live OS", is viable. One OS installed on a CD or USB stick will work on virtually all desktops, no driver installs needed.
I've used linux live OSs on many many many machines. rarely do you find unsupported hardware. I can probably name them. the old broadcom 43xx series wireless chips need firmware which is license restricted, but otherwise work well with the b43. They haven't been made for years. (superceded by b44xxx, which works as intended), and a few intel cards which need easy to include non-kernel drivers.'
4. buggy desktop - read any review of windows 8. read the feature list and it sounds like gnome 3, released 3 years ago.
only diffrence, people can un-install gnome3 and use other desktops.
which believe it or not, are compatibly thanks to freedesktop.org standards. My desktop from XFCE works in KDE. So do my settings. And all the desktop managers will recognize and list the major DMs, and even enlightenment.
So don't believe the FUD. the only people who write horribly unsupported crappy software is MS, its because for years there was the illusision that you had not other choice, and FUD like the above comment.
The only real problem with linux is the lack of AAA games, and big name software titles, much of that has to do with Windows relentless campaign of FUD dirrected at GNU, Linux, and associated projects, and community as a whole.
Steam is the beginning of the end. There might be a few titles on Linux to start, but there will be more, and it will convince more companies to target linux.
Once this happens, people are going to ask why they give a shit about windows in the first place.
AC troll trollying trolls hard, more news at 10
" I was listening to the NRA's president on NPR last week and he was adamant that mentally disturbed people should be allowed to have guns"
"mentally disturbed" is not a real condition, it seems more and more to be a catchphrase do describe people you don't like, outliers, and political and social enemies, not based in science, but old wives tales, superstition, and stereotypes. Its been used to dehumanize and disenfranchise the rights of citizens.
I don't want to
you know that kid of there, he looks weird, mabey he smells funny. Mabey he's drawing guns, or hacking computers, we have no idea what he's really doing except he doesn't like us, or recognize out social status. He's mentally disturbed.
By the DSM, we are all crazy.
this.....
they can trade with canada, and especially mexico next door, along with china, russia, and europe.