Instigate \In"sti*gate\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Instigated; p. pr. & vb. n. Instigating.] [L. instigatus, p. p. of instigare to instigate; pref. in- in + a root akin to G. stechen to prick, E. stick. See Stick.] To goad or urge forward; to set on; to provoke; to incite; -- used chiefly with reference to evil actions; as to instigate one to a crime.
OK, now that's clear. This guy says:
I moved our web systems from IIS to Apache, from ASP to PHP, and our databases from MSSQL to MySQL.
Then,
Again, I'm a proponent of Linux (the only one at our company:()
You must work for a very small company whose web presence is very small, and you have lots of extra time on your hands, or you are a very influential person that work with a bunch of morons.
If someone would have Coke's secret formula, noone would profit from it. Coke is a brandname and that means something. They have produced a product for over 100 years that people have become familiar with and like. The Coke bottle shape is one of the most widely known human made items that can be identified by humans.
If someone had the secret formula that _started_ Coke's fame, they would only be known as a knockoff of Coke and not bought. You know when bottled H2O is more than the price of a soda, there could be no price incentive to try the ripoff item, etc.
Point being that SCO has no product. Noone wants to buy SCO product if it existed. Remember, SCO is suing to sell binary runtime licenses for a software program that they will not provide (distribute to) you, nor will they support that program. Its not going to happen in my lifetime. People want Linux, people do not want SCO products. Even if they existed.
For Linux, this could mean that anybody who has worked on the kernel since 2.2 would no longer be able to contribute since they have gained the knowledge from seeing and studying SCO's IP.
Being that the source is so widely available on millions of cdroms (non desctructable media owned by many individuals and copyable) and harddrives all around the world, if any SCO ip were to be in the kernel, it would basically become public domain (or at least common knowledge:).
I hate to join the "me too!" bandwagon, but I recently got a 1.25GHz PowerBook G4, and it too is the nicest computer Ive ever owned. Its not perfect, but I'm really picky. And yes, my other computer is a supercomputer:)
The purpose of the test is not to test the memory, but to test the processors. Thus, they used the same memory in testing each processor configuration.
Then they should not have done an memory intensive and disk intensive benchmark like a database, now should they?
My guess is that you aren't involved with any applications where compute time = money.
Your right. I work with scientists that run programs up to 5 days over 10 to 20 processors. We get our money upfront, but everyone wants their answers quickly.
When you are running simulations (say large CFD runs for example) that can takes days or weeks per run, a 50% improvement in speed is a major breakthrough if you get it by not touching code, ie hardware upgrades.
So your saying that its more cost effective for you to upgrade every 6 to 9 months? Thats fine if it pays off for you. You probably don't have that many processors to worry about either. Trust me, its not trivial to upgrade 60 to 120 processors that often, even if the machines were given to me.
In your environment, it's probably okay for you to only upgrade every three years when you get a doubling or more of performance, but there are enviroments where any speed increase is sought after highly, even if it's 20%.
Moore's "law" appears to still be holding true with a doubling every 18 months. Even I'm not slack enough to only upgrade every 3 years:)
Add in the fact that you generally get charged for CPU time on these big machines (or clusters of little ones), then *any* speed that you get is a major breakthrough, ie you can run more simulations in the same time for the same money.
CPU time charges are often proportional to the speed of the machine, and its cputime not walltime (there is a difference).
The Opterons were fighting with one hand tied behind their backs.
I thought that one of the selling points of the opteron was that it could run 32bit and 64bit at the same time and at full clock speed (ie, no emulation, etc).
The jist of the whole thing is that Intel's achitecture has a huge bottleneck in its FSB. All the processors share the same FSB and quickly max it out if there are more then 2 processors. So anyone building or buying systems with more then 2 processors will get much better performance out of an AMD opteron system then an Intel.
Do you really consider 10->13% as "much better performance"? I must be a god, because I rewrote some queries on a database a few years ago and I got up to 400% performance without spending a dime on hardware.
Also, most people that go beyond 2 procs go with a real computer, and not a PC.
I have not heard that the Itaniums were slow since Intel came out with the Itanium2. Yes, the Itanium1's were dog slow. I've got 65 Itanium2 processors downstairs, and I'm happy with them. For our purposes (crunching numbers on very large datasets) the Itanium2 was the platform of choice because of its 64bit addressing, high memory bandwidth and good processor speed.
I wish we could get by with cheap Xeons, but they just don't cut the mustard for our applications.
Xeon's are almost always for servers, wheras Opeteron's can be for anything. Try running a windows xp workstation on a dual Xeon system and you'll be very disappointed.
OK, lets go over this again. There is nothing really special about Xeons vs a P4 except the P4 is crippled so that it cannot do SMP, and there may be more cache options on a Xeon. Performancewise they are the same @ the same clock speed. FWIW, I've been dissapointed with XP regardless of the hardware:)
Now, back to this benchark thingy. 1st, I would appreciate in the article writeup that it said that it was only doing a simple read/write database benchmark, and that was it, but we don't come to slashdot for the stories, right? Also, in my opinion there was no significant difference between the two platforms regarding their speed on this benchmark. The difference between 1st and 2nd place, regardless of who won that test, was between 5 and 12%. I don't start to get interested until there is at least 20% difference, and even then that would only determine my choice for an initial purchase, I would never upgrade a system unless there was at least 100% speedup, preferably 200 -> 400% is worthy of doing an upgrade.
It would have been interesting to see results like this for more platforms, because I have not seen any significant numbers from the Opteron yet. For example, the memory bandwidth of the Opteron is 1/2 that of the Itanium2's.
Does anyone in the justice system have any common sense?
The whole thing that SCO is trying to "sell" is a binary runtime license(WTF-TM). Yet SCO will not distribute the binary to you, nor will it supply any support for the "product". Notwithstanding that there is no legal grounds to support SCO's ownership of said intellectual property (yet).
Is this a new business model or a non existant one?
For those of you that don't know, the reveal codes feature was like viewing raw html. You could take away bold by dragging away the bold symbol, etc.
It rocked with page viewing (print preview in word syntax). Because you couild edit the code to make the format look right while you were viewing it at 100%.
This article takes place in the UK. I believe that limited freedoms is one of the things that made the people now living in the US want to split from Britain. But at the pace things are going, it looks like those wanting freedom will have to create a new country.
Or am I confuddled here? Intel wouldn't have supported a common architecture were it not for Microsoft.
Bingo! This is purely a Microsoft Software thing. If people were really interested in fast 64bit memory addressing they would use Itaniums with Linux or HPUX (read 2x that of the Opteron), but Word, Outlook, etc are more important in the server market. On a less sarcastic note, this is an interim step between the cheap x86 and the more expensive mid to high end 64bit market.
Can't we just let the damned x86 thing to die? Besides the stupid Caps Lock key, what other legacy crap do we drag around with us for over 30 years? Hell, you can even have lines of fortran code as long as you like now!
Do you remember when the "Intel Inside" logo came out? There was no real competition. (it was the Pentium days)
Yes, I do. I saw it for the 1st time on my father's Compaq 486/33sx. A friend of the family that worked for intel commented on it, and said it was good for job security. This was 1993. It may have come out before then.
SCO has an obligation to stockholders, customers and employees to protect the value of its assets. SCO is also sympathetic to the end-user's predicament.
Has anyone seen anything like this on the page before you click "Buy Now!" for a product. This has gotten absolutely hilarious. Also, in the EULA it says:
SCO does not warrant that the function contained in SCO IP will MEET YOUR requirements or that its operation will be uninterrupted or error free.
without viruses alot of the flaws in our operating systems would still be open today, then hackers would have free reign into your system without your knowledge
OK, I guess I'm suffering from them "having free reigh into my system" part, because I've never had an issue with virii on Linux, Solaris, or OSX, nor do I run Windows.
Why can't cars just be cars. I have been able to get my car safely and expediently to every place I've needed to go without the need for fancy automatic transmissions, CD-changers, cupholders, or cheesy tail fins.
None of these things have all of the negagive consquences of them like images in HTML email, etc. I get orders of magnatude less spam than ppl that use HTML email and images, think about it:
I lived in a strike zone as well. I lived about 10 miles from one of the largest shipyards in the US, about 10 miles from an Air Force base, 10 miles from an Army base, 20 miles from a CIA training camp, 30-40 miles from a large naval shipyard, etc.
Now, thanks to Reagan my kids are growing up in a world that is at least some what safer than the one I grew up in. At least they don't go to bed at night wondering if they where going to go up in a ball of fire the next day.
OK. But the USSR would not have done it. Period. Didn't you see Wargames? Your kids are no safer today than we were growing up. Sorry, but there was no "cold war"? It was fiction, made up after WWII, when the govn't realized that War == $$. Look at our defense spending, its orders of magnitudes greater than the 2nd in the world. What are we defending ourselves against? There is no enemy.
I'm 33 and was 10->18 when Reagan was in office. I grew up "in the middle of the cold war", I was scared. I realize now that the whole thing is BS. I don't like terrorism, and yes invoking fear is the definition of terrorism, and this was perpetuated by RR.
Like it or not, Ronald Regan was one of the greatest presidents ever.
He was one of the best actors ever. Read a little about the Iran-Contra Affair. I remember reading in 1992 or 1993 on the 4th or 5th page of a newspaper where he admitted to knowing about the whole thing. I guess it wasn't very important news.
Also, note the similarities between RR->Bush->dubya.
All had "wars" in Iraq. All had trouble with these evil ppl in the middle east, Kadafi and Saddam, all had oil issues, etc.
Did you particularly like being terrorised for 40+ years by our own government? My original sarcasm was to emphasize that there was no enemy, there was no cold war, its just business as usual, and the business in america is business, right?
Yeah, I felt so releaved when we finally won the "Cold War". </sarcasm>
Also, SDI "Strategic Defense Initiative", if I remember correctly, was a purely defensive mechanism that used lasers or whatnot to destroy nukes coming from USSR or some other evil commie country that came to the conclusion that its a good day to destroy the Earth.
Why on earth would anyone view images in an email, or blindly open attachments?
*sigh* Why cant email just be email? I've been able to evoke a wide range of emotions with email over the years and I have yet to have used HTML mail, background or any other image, sounds, colors, or smells. I'm surely not going to pay $250 in hardware for this "feature" either.
Slashdot Mirror
Instigate \In"sti*gate\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Instigated; p. pr. & vb. n. Instigating.] [L. instigatus, p. p. of instigare to instigate; pref. in- in + a root akin to G. stechen to prick, E. stick. See Stick.] To goad or urge forward; to set on; to provoke; to incite; -- used chiefly with reference to evil actions; as to instigate one to a crime.
:()
OK, now that's clear. This guy says:
I moved our web systems from IIS to Apache, from ASP to PHP, and our databases from MSSQL to MySQL.
Then,
Again, I'm a proponent of Linux (the only one at our company
You must work for a very small company whose web presence is very small, and you have lots of extra time on your hands, or you are a very influential person that work with a bunch of morons.
If any of those firms would have used 100% open source software from the start neither would have been sued.
If any of those firms would have used 100% Microsoft software from the start neither would have been used.
(also, 'any' and 'neither' are not parallel constructs).
Being that this document was released explicitly under the Open Source License, v1.1, couldn't slashdot have just inlined this?
If someone would have Coke's secret formula, noone would profit from it. Coke is a brandname and that means something. They have produced a product for over 100 years that people have become familiar with and like. The Coke bottle shape is one of the most widely known human made items that can be identified by humans.
If someone had the secret formula that _started_ Coke's fame, they would only be known as a knockoff of Coke and not bought. You know when bottled H2O is more than the price of a soda, there could be no price incentive to try the ripoff item, etc.
Point being that SCO has no product. Noone wants to buy SCO product if it existed. Remember, SCO is suing to sell binary runtime licenses for a software program that they will not provide (distribute to) you, nor will they support that program. Its not going to happen in my lifetime. People want Linux, people do not want SCO products. Even if they existed.
For Linux, this could mean that anybody who has worked on the kernel since 2.2 would no longer be able to contribute since they have gained the knowledge from seeing and studying SCO's IP.
:).
Being that the source is so widely available on millions of cdroms (non desctructable media owned by many individuals and copyable) and harddrives all around the world, if any SCO ip were to be in the kernel, it would basically become public domain (or at least common knowledge
I hate to join the "me too!" bandwagon, but I recently got a 1.25GHz PowerBook G4, and it too is the nicest computer Ive ever owned. Its not perfect, but I'm really picky. And yes, my other computer is a supercomputer :)
The purpose of the test is not to test the memory, but to test the processors. Thus, they used the same memory in testing each processor configuration.
Then they should not have done an memory intensive and disk intensive benchmark like a database, now should they?
My guess is that you aren't involved with any applications where compute time = money.
:)
Your right. I work with scientists that run programs up to 5 days over 10 to 20 processors. We get our money upfront, but everyone wants their answers quickly.
When you are running simulations (say large CFD runs for example) that can takes days or weeks per run, a 50% improvement in speed is a major breakthrough if you get it by not touching code, ie hardware upgrades.
So your saying that its more cost effective for you to upgrade every 6 to 9 months? Thats fine if it pays off for you. You probably don't have that many processors to worry about either. Trust me, its not trivial to upgrade 60 to 120 processors that often, even if the machines were given to me.
In your environment, it's probably okay for you to only upgrade every three years when you get a doubling or more of performance, but there are enviroments where any speed increase is sought after highly, even if it's 20%.
Moore's "law" appears to still be holding true with a doubling every 18 months. Even I'm not slack enough to only upgrade every 3 years
Add in the fact that you generally get charged for CPU time on these big machines (or clusters of little ones), then *any* speed that you get is a major breakthrough, ie you can run more simulations in the same time for the same money.
CPU time charges are often proportional to the speed of the machine, and its cputime not walltime (there is a difference).
The Opterons were fighting with one hand tied behind their backs.
I thought that one of the selling points of the opteron was that it could run 32bit and 64bit at the same time and at full clock speed (ie, no emulation, etc).
The jist of the whole thing is that Intel's achitecture has a huge bottleneck in its FSB. All the processors share the same FSB and quickly max it out if there are more then 2 processors. So anyone building or buying systems with more then 2 processors will get much better performance out of an AMD opteron system then an Intel.
Do you really consider 10->13% as "much better performance"? I must be a god, because I rewrote some queries on a database a few years ago and I got up to 400% performance without spending a dime on hardware.
Also, most people that go beyond 2 procs go with a real computer, and not a PC.
I have not heard that the Itaniums were slow since Intel came out with the Itanium2. Yes, the Itanium1's were dog slow. I've got 65 Itanium2 processors downstairs, and I'm happy with them. For our purposes (crunching numbers on very large datasets) the Itanium2 was the platform of choice because of its 64bit addressing, high memory bandwidth and good processor speed.
I wish we could get by with cheap Xeons, but they just don't cut the mustard for our applications.
Xeon's are almost always for servers, wheras Opeteron's can be for anything. Try running a windows xp workstation on a dual Xeon system and you'll be very disappointed.
:)
OK, lets go over this again. There is nothing really special about Xeons vs a P4 except the P4 is crippled so that it cannot do SMP, and there may be more cache options on a Xeon. Performancewise they are the same @ the same clock speed. FWIW, I've been dissapointed with XP regardless of the hardware
Now, back to this benchark thingy. 1st, I would appreciate in the article writeup that it said that it was only doing a simple read/write database benchmark, and that was it, but we don't come to slashdot for the stories, right? Also, in my opinion there was no significant difference between the two platforms regarding their speed on this benchmark. The difference between 1st and 2nd place, regardless of who won that test, was between 5 and 12%. I don't start to get interested until there is at least 20% difference, and even then that would only determine my choice for an initial purchase, I would never upgrade a system unless there was at least 100% speedup, preferably 200 -> 400% is worthy of doing an upgrade.
It would have been interesting to see results like this for more platforms, because I have not seen any significant numbers from the Opteron yet. For example, the memory bandwidth of the Opteron is 1/2 that of the Itanium2's.
Hi George!
Does anyone in the justice system have any common sense?
The whole thing that SCO is trying to "sell" is a binary runtime license(WTF-TM). Yet SCO will not distribute the binary to you, nor will it supply any support for the "product". Notwithstanding that there is no legal grounds to support SCO's ownership of said intellectual property (yet).
Is this a new business model or a non existant one?
For those of you that don't know, the reveal codes feature was like viewing raw html. You could take away bold by dragging away the bold symbol, etc.
It rocked with page viewing (print preview in word syntax). Because you couild edit the code to make the format look right while you were viewing it at 100%.
What happened to freedom of expression online?
This article takes place in the UK. I believe that limited freedoms is one of the things that made the people now living in the US want to split from Britain. But at the pace things are going, it looks like those wanting freedom will have to create a new country.
Or am I confuddled here? Intel wouldn't have supported a common architecture were it not for Microsoft.
Bingo! This is purely a Microsoft Software thing. If people were really interested in fast 64bit memory addressing they would use Itaniums with Linux or HPUX (read 2x that of the Opteron), but Word, Outlook, etc are more important in the server market. On a less sarcastic note, this is an interim step between the cheap x86 and the more expensive mid to high end 64bit market.
Can't we just let the damned x86 thing to die? Besides the stupid Caps Lock key, what other legacy crap do we drag around with us for over 30 years? Hell, you can even have lines of fortran code as long as you like now!
Do you remember when the "Intel Inside" logo came out? There was no real competition. (it was the Pentium days)
Yes, I do. I saw it for the 1st time on my father's Compaq 486/33sx. A friend of the family that worked for intel commented on it, and said it was good for job security. This was 1993. It may have come out before then.
SCO has an obligation to stockholders, customers and employees to protect the value of its assets. SCO is also sympathetic to the end-user's predicament.
Has anyone seen anything like this on the page before you click "Buy Now!" for a product. This has gotten absolutely hilarious. Also, in the EULA it says:
SCO does not warrant that the function contained in SCO IP will MEET YOUR requirements or that its operation will be uninterrupted or error free.
Funny.
without viruses alot of the flaws in our operating systems would still be open today, then hackers would have free reign into your system without your knowledge
OK, I guess I'm suffering from them "having free reigh into my system" part, because I've never had an issue with virii on Linux, Solaris, or OSX, nor do I run Windows.
Why can't cars just be cars. I have been able to get my car safely and expediently to every place I've needed to go without the need for fancy automatic transmissions, CD-changers, cupholders, or cheesy tail fins.
a ddname=yourname@yourcompany.com">
None of these things have all of the negagive consquences of them like images in HTML email, etc. I get orders of magnatude less spam than ppl that use HTML email and images, think about it:
<img src="http://foo.com/cgi-bin/good_email_addresses?
And there you have it. So get used to it - plaintext probably won't die a painful death, but it will someday only be used by "enthusiasts".
Dunno, try sending an HTML email to a mailing list.
I lived in a strike zone as well. I lived about 10 miles from one of the largest shipyards in the US, about 10 miles from an Air Force base, 10 miles from an Army base, 20 miles from a CIA training camp, 30-40 miles from a large naval shipyard, etc.
Now, thanks to Reagan my kids are growing up in a world that is at least some what safer than the one I grew up in. At least they don't go to bed at night wondering if they where going to go up in a ball of fire the next day.
OK. But the USSR would not have done it. Period. Didn't you see Wargames? Your kids are no safer today than we were growing up. Sorry, but there was no "cold war"? It was fiction, made up after WWII, when the govn't realized that War == $$. Look at our defense spending, its orders of magnitudes greater than the 2nd in the world. What are we defending ourselves against? There is no enemy.
I'm 33 and was 10->18 when Reagan was in office. I grew up "in the middle of the cold war", I was scared. I realize now that the whole thing is BS. I don't like terrorism, and yes invoking fear is the definition of terrorism, and this was perpetuated by RR.
Like it or not, Ronald Regan was one of the greatest presidents ever.
He was one of the best actors ever. Read a little about the Iran-Contra Affair. I remember reading in 1992 or 1993 on the 4th or 5th page of a newspaper where he admitted to knowing about the whole thing. I guess it wasn't very important news.
Also, note the similarities between RR->Bush->dubya.
All had "wars" in Iraq. All had trouble with these evil ppl in the middle east, Kadafi and Saddam, all had oil issues, etc.
Did you particularly like being terrorised for 40+ years by our own government? My original sarcasm was to emphasize that there was no enemy, there was no cold war, its just business as usual, and the business in america is business, right?
It worked well, apparently.
Yeah, I felt so releaved when we finally won the "Cold War". </sarcasm>
Also, SDI "Strategic Defense Initiative", if I remember correctly, was a purely defensive mechanism that used lasers or whatnot to destroy nukes coming from USSR or some other evil commie country that came to the conclusion that its a good day to destroy the Earth.
Why on earth would anyone view images in an email, or blindly open attachments?
*sigh* Why cant email just be email? I've been able to evoke a wide range of emotions with email over the years and I have yet to have used HTML mail, background or any other image, sounds, colors, or smells. I'm surely not going to pay $250 in hardware for this "feature" either.