After reading this author wax fetishistic over the concrete quality of his music collection, and lament dismissivly against the rising tide of MP3s, I had to admit that somewhere in there he has a valid point, even if his arguments come over as a bit defensive and overwrought. Most of the discussion here seems to be building a case for one medium over the other without really getting down to what I see as the meat of the matter, which is what is it about a record that makes it cool, or a file in a directory that can become a tune? Where is the art? And how do these differing coolnesses relate, that's the really interesting thing. With an 'album', be it vinyl, a CD or a bootleg mix-tape bought on a street, there's one thing in common here, in that somebody somewhere once chose to put this thing together, and when they did it became more than its parts and became a thing.
I think it safe to say that by this point everything ever recorded ever is available on CD somewhere. Rarity isn't an issue like it once was, and good riddance. MP3s will just continue this on. The flip side of this is that too much information becomes an issue, and I hold the internet as a fine example. Here we have a sea so large it makes a research library hard to find. Which brings me back to my point, that part of the value of a good collection is put there by the person who thought to assemble it. This is the difference between a CD and the MP3 scene I see today. The rest is chrome. Its all a question of how you pack you bits, anyway. If we had the bandwidth we could just ship the cd tracks around. The quality issue will just go away. So what's the difference? Timing. Ambiance. A feel. Which is what musicians do.
There was a weird and very real adjustment when the platform shifted from a record, with two 22 minute sides, to a cd, with a continuous 60 minutes. People didn't have a feel for how to time it. You can burn five hours on a CDR now, but people haven't figured out how to make it really work. They will, because it's what they do.
In the end there isn't any difference at all between MP3s and CDs when looked at song by song. But music is more than just a bunch of songs. People like album art, because it adds a new element. People like MTV, too, although I've never understood why. Maybe someone could package a zillion tracks on a machine that would play like a radio but you could dial in your mood. That would be cool. Put an auteur's imprint on it, bundle in some extra info, and it's even more a thing. Which is where I agree with this guy, that things are cool. When you package enough good ideas together art comes out. Give it a collective noun, and its a thing.
...If only one person had said "I vow never to be a bully in any way, shape, or form", I'd feel a little better about Katz's charade. But no one did...
This is an interesting observation, and no, I don't think it's wrong. I can't agree with you outright, though, because I have a feeling it's not fair to require it right now. For example, I think the sentiment is implict to many of the voices I've heard. That's part of the injustice; that many of these disaffected youths are really, behind their black-wearing self-expressive facades, just the nicest people you'd ever want to know. Hitler Youth excluded of course -- recovering the truly misguided is different snakepit I don't want to get into here.
I don't know what will come of all of this, but if there's to be any headway into the problem here I suppose I've taken it for granted some basic priciple like you've stated would have to be welded deep in the basic framework; so obvious as to be easily past mention. That's me thinking, though, not them. I do know that many, probably most of the socially-conscious people I've ever met come from the same group we've been hearing from here, so I think there's reason to allow some implict goodwill.
Maybe this is, as you say, just a feel-good swap meet. Or maybe this is the power of the internet, getting marginalized elements talking in a way never possible before. Perhaps because I don't want to believe the former, I'm leaning toward the latter. I think whether Katz gets anything out of it to be mostly irrelevant. I edited that point out of my last post, because it's distracting to the process, which I see to be the real issue here.
Another thing I've noticed is that every prediction into the future ever made has turned out wrong in ways the originators never dreamed possible. Will the US keep churning out legions of carelessly bloodthirsty consumers? We do seem pretty good at it, but I'm not going to make any bets I don't mind losing. It's easy to extrapolate the past into the future, but for example take this internet thing -- what's going to happen? Could be bad, could be good. Can't wait to find out.
Meanwhile, this "Hellmouth" scam (for in Katz's hands, it has become little more than that) seems much more Matter-ful, especially since I believe the general response to it to be as awful as the mainstream cluelessness about "geeks, goths, nerds, and outsiders".
Today is World Press Freedom Day...
If I understand your argument correctly, I think that dismissing the last week's forum as inconsequential in the light of 'bigger fish to fry' to be a somewhat shortsighted approach. I agree with your politics, and perhaps even agree that in general the posts of the last week are more complaitive than conclusive. However within that stream I myself have extracted quite a lot of genuinely useful food for thought, which in my eyes justifies all that has been written, good and bad.
"Think globally, act locally" A great line 30 years ago and even more relevant today, what with telecommuncation going as it has. Thirty years ago I'd probably never hear news from Indonesia. Three time as many people got in the way yesterday in Serbia than Colorado a week ago, but honestly, I have no idea what's going on in across the Atlantic Ocean. I have my ideas, but know them probably tainted because everybody, from Z mag pundits to the DOD scriptwriters, has an agenda to back. It's not unimportant, but it's not very easy for me to do anything about it either. I do do things, but know they're not worth much.
When a kid writes about abuse, no one's paying him for his position. Putting these facts up for all to see and comment upon may well do some good, in ways I don't believe anyone has the prescience to forsee. One thing is certain: for the kid, what he speaks of is in his backyard. And if somehow everybody changes their backyard, mysteriously the world will have changed beneath our feet.
Finally, you wrote:
I'm not endorsing the abuse of outcast kids; I'm just saying there's literally millions of people around the world who don't get to grow out of their outcast status, and who don't have the option of buying a makeover to become like the "popular kids".
I've met many who've been able to buy into conformity, both mainsteam and counter-culture. I have yet to meet someone who could buy their way out of non-conformity. It just doesn't follow. You don't decide to be a misfit. Others decide for you. In a nutshell, that's what we've been talking about. mt
Slashdot Mirror
After reading this author wax fetishistic over the concrete quality of his music collection, and lament dismissivly against the rising tide of MP3s, I had to admit that somewhere in there he has a valid point, even if his arguments come over as a bit defensive and overwrought. Most of the discussion here seems to be building a case for one medium over the other without really getting down to what I see as the meat of the matter, which is what is it about a record that makes it cool, or a file in a directory that can become a tune? Where is the art? And how do these differing coolnesses relate, that's the really interesting thing. With an 'album', be it vinyl, a CD or a bootleg mix-tape bought on a street, there's one thing in common here, in that somebody somewhere once chose to put this thing together, and when they did it became more than its parts and became a thing.
I think it safe to say that by this point everything ever recorded ever is available on CD somewhere. Rarity isn't an issue like it once was, and good riddance. MP3s will just continue this on. The flip side of this is that too much information becomes an issue, and I hold the internet as a fine example. Here we have a sea so large it makes a research library hard to find. Which brings me back to my point, that part of the value of a good collection is put there by the person who thought to assemble it. This is the difference between a CD and the MP3 scene I see today. The rest is chrome. Its all a question of how you pack you bits, anyway. If we had the bandwidth we could just ship the cd tracks around. The quality issue will just go away. So what's the difference? Timing. Ambiance. A feel. Which is what musicians do.
There was a weird and very real adjustment when the platform shifted from a record, with two 22 minute sides, to a cd, with a continuous 60 minutes. People didn't have a feel for how to time it. You can burn five hours on a CDR now, but people haven't figured out how to make it really work. They will, because it's what they do.
In the end there isn't any difference at all between MP3s and CDs when looked at song by song. But music is more than just a bunch of songs. People like album art, because it adds a new element. People like MTV, too, although I've never understood why. Maybe someone could package a zillion tracks on a machine that would play like a radio but you could dial in your mood. That would be cool. Put an auteur's imprint on it, bundle in some extra info, and it's even more a thing. Which is where I agree with this guy, that things are cool. When you package enough good ideas together art comes out. Give it a collective noun, and its a thing.
ciao.
morvus
'Oh yea? You and what army?'
This is an interesting observation, and no, I don't think it's wrong. I can't agree with you outright, though, because I have a feeling it's not fair to require it right now. For example, I think the sentiment is implict to many of the voices I've heard. That's part of the injustice; that many of these disaffected youths are really, behind their black-wearing self-expressive facades, just the nicest people you'd ever want to know. Hitler Youth excluded of course -- recovering the truly misguided is different snakepit I don't want to get into here.
I don't know what will come of all of this, but if there's to be any headway into the problem here I suppose I've taken it for granted some basic priciple like you've stated would have to be welded deep in the basic framework; so obvious as to be easily past mention. That's me thinking, though, not them. I do know that many, probably most of the socially-conscious people I've ever met come from the same group we've been hearing from here, so I think there's reason to allow some implict goodwill.
Maybe this is, as you say, just a feel-good swap meet. Or maybe this is the power of the internet, getting marginalized elements talking in a way never possible before. Perhaps because I don't want to believe the former, I'm leaning toward the latter. I think whether Katz gets anything out of it to be mostly irrelevant. I edited that point out of my last post, because it's distracting to the process, which I see to be the real issue here.
Another thing I've noticed is that every prediction into the future ever made has turned out wrong in ways the originators never dreamed possible. Will the US keep churning out legions of carelessly bloodthirsty consumers? We do seem pretty good at it, but I'm not going to make any bets I don't mind losing. It's easy to extrapolate the past into the future, but for example take this internet thing -- what's going to happen? Could be bad, could be good. Can't wait to find out.
mt
Today is World Press Freedom Day...
If I understand your argument correctly, I think that dismissing the last week's forum as inconsequential in the light of 'bigger fish to fry' to be a somewhat shortsighted approach. I agree with your politics, and perhaps even agree that in general the posts of the last week are more complaitive than conclusive. However within that stream I myself have extracted quite a lot of genuinely useful food for thought, which in my eyes justifies all that has been written, good and bad.
"Think globally, act locally" A great line 30 years ago and even more relevant today, what with telecommuncation going as it has. Thirty years ago I'd probably never hear news from Indonesia. Three time as many people got in the way yesterday in Serbia than Colorado a week ago, but honestly, I have no idea what's going on in across the Atlantic Ocean. I have my ideas, but know them probably tainted because everybody, from Z mag pundits to the DOD scriptwriters, has an agenda to back. It's not unimportant, but it's not very easy for me to do anything about it either. I do do things, but know they're not worth much.
When a kid writes about abuse, no one's paying him for his position. Putting these facts up for all to see and comment upon may well do some good, in ways I don't believe anyone has the prescience to forsee. One thing is certain: for the kid, what he speaks of is in his backyard. And if somehow everybody changes their backyard, mysteriously the world will have changed beneath our feet.
Finally, you wrote:
I'm not endorsing the abuse of outcast kids; I'm just saying there's literally millions of people around the world who don't get to grow out of their outcast status, and who don't have the option of buying a makeover to become like the "popular kids".
I've met many who've been able to buy into conformity, both mainsteam and counter-culture. I have yet to meet someone who could buy their way out of non-conformity. It just doesn't follow. You don't decide to be a misfit. Others decide for you. In a nutshell, that's what we've been talking about. mt