"History shows that most republics don't last more than 30 generations, the United States being in fact, the LONGEST lasting one."
Most of your points are cogent, but I have to take issue with you on this one. Just to give one example, Iceland has been a parliamentary republic since it was settled back in the 900s.
"java may be a good languaje, but it seems that everybody forget it is a *propietary* languaje..."
But all the specifications are published. This is why you can get implementations from Sun, IBM and a variety of other sources. Can you assume that MS will do the same?
"it is *owned* by Sun, the same company that doesn't want this languaje/platform in the hands of ECMA or ISO."
The C# language may be been submitted to ECMA, however none of the supporting libraries have. What use is a bare language?
>> Secondly, it means we are forced into Microsoft's vision of the future
> No it doesn't. It means we have another choice.
But you already had a choice. What has been quietly going on for a while are network services based on java. It would seem that just because it isn't been trumpeted by MS PR flacks it doesn't exist.
And yes, I know the arguments about java being owned by Sun and all the rest. But all of the APIs for the class libraries are published as is the specification for the JVM. Are you willing to accept that MS will do the same for.NET?
Unlike the TPC-C benchmark TPC-H is a real world measure. As such this is a useful, if limited, result.
Maybe nobody on Slashdot needs a 3TB database. And on this benchmark your bank (which will have a 3TB DB) won't yet be taking up Linux. But it is a step on the way.
> Case in point. Java. SUN has said for years that they were going to push Java through a standards committee.
It will be interesting to see what Sun do in the future. Would you have wanted them to push Java through a standards committee with MS or HP sitting on it?
You might also try and get some historical perspective. Sun has a record of putting specifications, if not code, in the public domain. Think NIS, NFS, ONC RPC.
Apparently the next version of WinCE is known as Talisker. For those of you who don't know this is a nice, peaty single malt whisky distilled on the isle of Skye.
Yet another company MS assumes doesn't have the money to sue them for stealing a trademark.
According to statistics that were discussed on BBC radio Texas has 1/3 of the population of Great Britain but produces 20% more pollution.
There is some dreadfully reactionary thinking on this topic going on everywhere, not just in the USA. Why not see the whole thing as an opportunity to develop and sell new technology that is highly efficient and pollutes less. While you are at it, why not make it as cheap as possible so countries like India and China don't get into the bad habits the 1st world has.
The Times used to be the paper of record here in the UK.
That is until it was bought by Rupert Murdoch. Now it is a tabloid in broadsheet format that uses three syllable words. It is the complementary daily to the "Sun" (all naked women and salacious stories) designed to push Murdoch's views.
"Come on, most of us are programmers here--wouldn't it be more elegant, clean, efficient, if we could just work out a way to achieve near 100% renewability of resources we use here on Earth, and then use that nearly indefinitely?"
Well, yes it might but the second law of thermodynamics tends to interfere. All that platinum that is gathered in one place tends to be used all over the Earth. While we should gather it in to reuse some of it will disappear. Eventually we end up with materials uniformly spread everywhere, and it becomes impossible to resuse them.
When MS tried to "improve" ActiveX security by digitally signing applets, so that they could claim they were as secure as Java applets. As far as I recollect it only took a couple of days before someone managed to spoof the signatures.
Now security managers may like the idea of "secured"£ code, but let them get the idea that the encryption is poor and they will drop it like a shot.
The majority of people on Slashdot who have commented about the layout of the ballot form seem to think it was OK and that the fault lies with the people who filled it in wrongly.
As a gross generalisation I would guess that the majority of Slashdotters are young, bright with good eyesight. I would also guess that few of them have continual contact with the elderly or the less bright.
If you are one of these archetypal Slashdotters then be a little more understanding of people with less abilities than yourself.
If you are a manufacturer who exports from the States or uses parts obtained from abroad you have problems.
Things like nuts and bolts are not interchangeable, stuff won't fit into rack mounts etc. All this leads to increased costs.
It would be interesting to find out how much of American industry actually uses the metric system internally.
On another, but related front, I know that a lot of American companies are starting to use the Euro rather than multiple single country currencies because of simplification and cost reduction.
The flamefest at the technical level between RMS and JWZ was enough to provide heat, light and power for the whole of a small town. And this was over a piece of software that was pure GPL.
It is often said that the payback from Open/Free software development is in terms of kudos to the author and boost to the ego.
In this case it would seem that ego is at the forefront of the discussion as much as quibbles about licences or software quality.
C, and a variety of shells, used many of the features of Algol 68. Pascal was, in many respects, Wirth's attempt to prove that you could have a smaller language than Algol 68 but still be as explressive.
The story about 3.51 being certified without a network connection or floppy drive is quickly becoming urban legend, or at least a standard slur whenever the subject is brought up.
Assume I was wrong about the floppy drive and network card. However when you state Anyway, they seem to have C2 certification for NT4. you compound the fallacy about certification being given to and OS per se. If you look at the MS site it actually states that a particular configuration of NT 4 was being used for evaluation. The quote is
"This checklist outlines the steps you should take to duplicate the
C2-evaluated configuration of Windows NT Server 4.0. Note that following this checklist does not make your installation C2-compliant; it merely assures you that thesoftware configuration matches the configuration that the NCSC evaluated."
Slashdot Mirror
"History shows that most republics don't last more than 30 generations, the United States being in fact, the LONGEST lasting one."
Most of your points are cogent, but I have to take issue with you on this one. Just to give one example, Iceland has been a parliamentary republic since it was settled back in the 900s.
"java may be a good languaje, but it seems that everybody forget it is a *propietary* languaje..."
But all the specifications are published. This is why you can get implementations from Sun, IBM and a variety of other sources. Can you assume that MS will do the same?
"it is *owned* by Sun, the same company that doesn't want this languaje/platform in the hands of ECMA or ISO."
The C# language may be been submitted to ECMA, however none of the supporting libraries have. What use is a bare language?
>> Secondly, it means we are forced into Microsoft's vision of the future
.NET?
> No it doesn't. It means we have another choice.
But you already had a choice. What has been quietly going on for a while are network services based on java. It would seem that just because it isn't been trumpeted by MS PR flacks it doesn't exist.
And yes, I know the arguments about java being owned by Sun and all the rest. But all of the APIs for the class libraries are published as is the specification for the JVM. Are you willing to accept that MS will do the same for
Unlike the TPC-C benchmark TPC-H is a real world measure. As such this is a useful, if limited, result.
Maybe nobody on Slashdot needs a 3TB database. And on this benchmark your bank (which will have a 3TB DB) won't yet be taking up Linux. But it is a step on the way.
Sad - responding to my own message.
I did, of course, mean TPC-C. Other TPC benchmarks are more meaningful, and less tweakable by the vendor.
TPC is hardly the best indicator of performance or scalability. It doesn't really allow meaningful comparisons between systems.
You can prove that a particular program implements a specification correctly, VDM and Z people have been doing this for a long time.
You then run into the problem of proving the specification is correct...
> Case in point. Java. SUN has said for years that they were going to push Java through a standards committee.
It will be interesting to see what Sun do in the future. Would you have wanted them to push Java through a standards committee with MS or HP sitting on it?
You might also try and get some historical perspective. Sun has a record of putting specifications, if not code, in the public domain. Think NIS, NFS, ONC RPC.
Apparently the next version of WinCE is known as Talisker. For those of you who don't know this is a nice, peaty single malt whisky distilled on the isle of Skye.
Yet another company MS assumes doesn't have the money to sue them for stealing a trademark.
"How many of us really think it's a good idea to trash the planet and leave the mess for our grandchildren"
Looking at my teenage daughter's bedroom I would guess that she is quite capable of trashing the planet all by herself.
According to statistics that were discussed on BBC radio Texas has 1/3 of the population of Great Britain but produces 20% more pollution.
There is some dreadfully reactionary thinking on this topic going on everywhere, not just in the USA. Why not see the whole thing as an opportunity to develop and sell new technology that is highly efficient and pollutes less. While you are at it, why not make it as cheap as possible so countries like India and China don't get into the bad habits the 1st world has.
The Times used to be the paper of record here in the UK.
That is until it was bought by Rupert Murdoch. Now it is a tabloid in broadsheet format that uses three syllable words. It is the complementary daily to the "Sun" (all naked women and salacious stories) designed to push Murdoch's views.
And we've seen it again and again
That whenever you pay him the Danegeld
You never get rid of the Dane.
Rudyard Kipling, as usual, says it best.
In other circumstances this would be demanding money with menaces.
"Come on, most of us are programmers here--wouldn't it be more elegant, clean, efficient, if we could just work out a way to achieve near 100% renewability of resources we use here on Earth, and then use that nearly indefinitely?"
Well, yes it might but the second law of thermodynamics tends to interfere. All that platinum that is gathered in one place tends to be used all over the Earth. While we should gather it in to reuse some of it will disappear. Eventually we end up with materials uniformly spread everywhere, and it becomes impossible to resuse them.
When MS tried to "improve" ActiveX security by digitally signing applets, so that they could claim they were as secure as Java applets. As far as I recollect it only took a couple of days before someone managed to spoof the signatures.
Now security managers may like the idea of "secured"£ code, but let them get the idea that the encryption is poor and they will drop it like a shot.
The majority of people on Slashdot who have commented about the layout of the ballot form seem to think it was OK and that the fault lies with the people who filled it in wrongly.
As a gross generalisation I would guess that the majority of Slashdotters are young, bright with good eyesight. I would also guess that few of them have continual contact with the elderly or the less bright.
If you are one of these archetypal Slashdotters then be a little more understanding of people with less abilities than yourself.
If you are a manufacturer who exports from the States or uses parts obtained from abroad you have problems.
Things like nuts and bolts are not interchangeable, stuff won't fit into rack mounts etc. All this leads to increased costs.
It would be interesting to find out how much of American industry actually uses the metric system internally.
On another, but related front, I know that a lot of American companies are starting to use the Euro rather than multiple single country currencies because of simplification and cost reduction.
I went to a seminar in Manchester a couple of years ago where it was argued that long-necked dinosaurs must have four chambered hearts.
Apparently if they had two chambered hearts then when they bent down to drink the hydraulic pressure would have made their heads explode.
"There will never be a use for group theory"
Go ask your physicist friends whether they could do without group theory.
On Sun's StarOffice 5.2 CDs.
Given that SO 6.0 is due to be out under the GPL in a couple of weeks then this is a nice match.
How long ago was that?
The flamefest at the technical level between RMS and JWZ was enough to provide heat, light and power for the whole of a small town. And this was over a piece of software that was pure GPL.
It is often said that the payback from Open/Free software development is in terms of kudos to the author and boost to the ego.
In this case it would seem that ego is at the forefront of the discussion as much as quibbles about licences or software quality.
C, and a variety of shells, used many of the features of Algol 68. Pascal was, in many respects, Wirth's attempt to prove that you could have a smaller language than Algol 68 but still be as explressive.
> We are beginning a new age of corporate control over our lives and our very fundamental freedoms.
The "corporate control" has always been there, it has simply moved on from controlling land and factories to "Intellectual" property.
Assume I was wrong about the floppy drive and network card. However when you state Anyway, they seem to have C2 certification for NT4. you compound the fallacy about certification being given to and OS per se. If you look at the MS site it actually states that a particular configuration of NT 4 was being used for evaluation. The quote is