Have you considered washing your mouth young man? Representative democracy is only democracy in part and for the remaining part I stand where I do on the issue of China above.
You think citizenship means the right to vote in European election etc. all those things listen in that wikipedia article; I think citizenship means belonging to a state that is governed the way its people wants it to be governed. If you can't see this difference I don't know where to go with this.
I don't understand why the distinction between word and concept is so hard for you. If the Chinese people somehow managed to have a referendum on their government and voted that it should be replaced I would from then on consider the Chinese people––Chinese citizens, because that happens to be their nation,––but not citizens to that government even if that government would ignore the referendum.
Exactly, democracy made Obama President, yet the EU constitution was democratically rejected by at least some of the peoples you call EU citizens. Thanks for making my point.
"I'm sure all those EU citizens casting votes in the elections for the European Parliament, as outlined in the Maastricht Treaty, would be astonished to learn that they are imagining all of that."
Yet I'm sure the peoples who democratically rejected the EU constitution would be glad to remind them that they are.
The citizens of the EU's member states are citizens of their respective states; they may jauntily call themselves citizens of Europe or citizens of the world but until they decide democratically to be citizens of something other than their state it'd be unjust to consider them citizens of something other than their state no matter what anyone else says. That is, if you value their right to govern themselves.
If I call you my subject will you accept me as king? Would it be alright if others did business with me as if I were your king even if you don't accept me as such?
Slashdot Mirror
Also, may I point out that I'm the only one debating with a modicum of taste here...?
Which were then ignored (the European Constitution ones).
I feel so sad reading what you say, because it is clear you have never thought a thought of your own.
Have you considered washing your mouth young man? Representative democracy is only democracy in part and for the remaining part I stand where I do on the issue of China above.
You think citizenship means the right to vote in European election etc. all those things listen in that wikipedia article; I think citizenship means belonging to a state that is governed the way its people wants it to be governed. If you can't see this difference I don't know where to go with this.
I don't understand why the distinction between word and concept is so hard for you. If the Chinese people somehow managed to have a referendum on their government and voted that it should be replaced I would from then on consider the Chinese people––Chinese citizens, because that happens to be their nation,––but not citizens to that government even if that government would ignore the referendum.
Exactly, democracy made Obama President, yet the EU constitution was democratically rejected by at least some of the peoples you call EU citizens. Thanks for making my point.
I'm sorry but undemocratic law can stuff itself. The concept of citizenship is not limited to a juridical interpretation.
Ad hominem. Plus you can't read.
"I'm sure all those EU citizens casting votes in the elections for the European Parliament, as outlined in the Maastricht Treaty, would be astonished to learn that they are imagining all of that." Yet I'm sure the peoples who democratically rejected the EU constitution would be glad to remind them that they are.
In fact, it was the very meaninglessness of it that I wanted to point out in the first place.
So long as it is agreed that the term EU citizen has no bearing on my or anyone's scenario I'm fine with it as a meaningless abbreviation.
I can be sympathetic to that. (Given that the crucial difference would be observed, of course.)
The citizens of the EU's member states are citizens of their respective states; they may jauntily call themselves citizens of Europe or citizens of the world but until they decide democratically to be citizens of something other than their state it'd be unjust to consider them citizens of something other than their state no matter what anyone else says. That is, if you value their right to govern themselves.
If I call you my subject will you accept me as king? Would it be alright if others did business with me as if I were your king even if you don't accept me as such?
The EU isn't a state, it has no citizens.