Even if they are you should always look at optimizing the algorithm first. Once you have taken that as far as you can find the critical areas and then try to write small very optimized functions to improve those. Using the required car metaphor. A good driver can out stop anti-lock brakes in tests. When someone slams on their brakes in front of you on a slick road things are different. Writing really optimized assembly code is so intense and demanding that it is a very rare person that can do it reliably for long periods of time. It is better to save that effort for small critical sections.
Funny but I would say the same thing about the java haters. I love you got that from study. This was one test but the results are very interesting. The Java version was the easiest to implement. That has real value because many programs do not demand a lot of performance. Java would be a terrible choice for an OS, Browser, or anything that is really high performance. If you are going to write a Point of Sale System, a Home Accounting system, or any number of simple programs like that Java seems like a really good option. Add in it being multi platform and it is actually a good solutions for many types of programs. C++ is for anything that is going to be really demanding and when it is worth the time to really fine tune the code. It is almost always going to be the wrong language for a one off program. For one offs Python and Perl are good and frankly so is Java. Scala also seems really interesting it is producing faster code while running on the JVM which is really interesting. One and C++ can be very close to multiplatform if you use QT but it takes a lot of work. Different tools for different jobs. Java for some jobs will allow you to get out a reliable program into the hands of users much quicker than using C++ and that has it's own value. Think of Java as a container ship and C++ as a 747-F. Maybe you should have read the conclusions. C++ "We nd that in regards to performance, C++ wins out by a large margin. However, it also required the most extensive tuning efforts, many of which were done at a level of sophistication that would not be available to the average programmer" So if you are working on performance critical code C++ is the way to go. For Java "The Java version was probably the simplest to implement, but the hardest to analyze for performance. Specically the effects around garbage collection were complicated and very hard to tune" For speed of development and reliability are more important the speed of execution then Java seems like a good solution. For many programs all you need is for the program is fast enough all you need to do is have it be fast enough for your user to not have to wait. This is a large segment of software. Think of things like ATMs, Point of Sale System, or any of those Form plus data base programs that people use everyday. Scala really interests me a lot "Scala concise notation and powerful language features allowed for the best optimization of code complexity." I may really have to give this a long hard look. And then you have GO. "Go offers interesting language features, which also allow for a concise and standardized notation. The compilers for this language are still immature, which reects in both performance and binary sizes." To me this is a case of it not being ready for prime time yet. Java can be as fast as C++ when you define fast as user perception. The few milliseconds improvement you may get with an Home Accounting system will not matter one bit to the users. I wouldn't write a browser or a Flight Simulator in Java but there a lot of good programs written in Java and it is a good tool for some uses. Maybe you should take a look at the conclusions of the study before you start bashing.
"I had honestly never heard of Chromium until now." So you posted from the point of ignorance. " And my line about vigilant hackers was merely for dramatically silly effect. " So you feel that emotional manipulation is useful tactic. So your post combines ignorance with the level of arrogance that cause you to feel that manipulation is needed to inform those that are not as wise you. When dealing with technical issues it is better to use facts and not manipulation.
Don't be so literal. Frankly I am a nuclear power fan and live in a town with two reactors. They don't worry me at all. It is just the illusion that Italy isn't using nuclear power I fear.
Funny but maybe that is a flaw in the European mind set. To me a reactor in France or Italy are not that far apart. The nations in the Eu are very close to the size of US states. Have a reactor in the next state just isn't all that different than having it in this state depending on which way the wind blows if things go very bad. Do you guys actually live with the illusion that if reactor pops that a boarder will make a lot of difference?
The US doesn't import much coal we mine it ourselves. We still drill for oil in the US. We do not say we are going to a coal free and oil free system and then buy coal power plants in mexico and Canada. We may buy plants that but we do not say we are coal and oil free. Of course some states do pull that and they too are also annoying. And yes I live near a nuclear power plant and I am glad that it isn't a coal plant and feel safe.
Funny but they have not abandoned nuclear power. They are pretending they have to make themselves feel good. They import no less than 16% of their electricity from France. They have just move the responsibility for the reactors to another nation. As Italy needs more power they will import more from France and use even more nuclear power outside of their own control and regulation. This should be called the Grand Delusion. They are just going to use more and more nuclear power while taking no responsibility for it themselves. Welcome to reality 101.
With our customer base the more completely independent the actual program is the better off we are. I know that their are ways to package up Perl but I have not looked at other options. Also we do not distribute source with all of our programs. We only do that with our FOSS projects which we have a few small ones. For Windows compiled systems are just so much easier to distribute. For in house stuff I use Perl for the throw aways and Java for the real apps. I keep hoping we can move our clerical staff off of Windows to Linux so Java was a good choice at the time for portability. As it is I am having a heck of a time just getting them off Office and onto OO.org. And I actually like programing in Java. And no my programs are not slow except when I make an error in database design. Usually I can fix that with a look bit of attention to detail. But then we are running an almost million tuple database on a 600Mhz P3 server with 50 or so users. I would say you are making some rather rude statements just to be smug.
Did you not know that most of Firefox's revenue comes from Google? And no vigilant hackers are not what we need. vigilant programmers are. If you bothered to look before you posted you find that Chromium is FOSS under the Apache 2 license. In other words this poast was a waste of electrons and sound like Microsoft level FUD.
Yea my wife uses it for her wordpress blog and loves it. And for $12 you are paying more for the domain name then the hosting. If it fits you needs it is a great deal.
No it would be wise. Thing is that it is probably blocked by a bureaucratic hell at Microsoft. If they where really smart they would offer to give this guy the parts to make these controllers. Probably cost them all of a $1000 and be worth millions in good PR.
Sorry but outside of a few exceptions I have yet to see a good Union. The Teachers union are pretty good over all but outside of that my experience has been corruption, threats, and stalemate. Everything from the Football and Baseball unions where we get to see them fight over who is the most greedy the Millionaire players or the Billionaire owners. To the unions at the trade shows I have gone too where they charge us $80 for them to plug in a power strip or charge use to watch us put up our booth. Your mythical good unions seem to be the exception and not the rule.
True but most of my projects these days are for commercial distribution so a compiled language is a requirement and all my projects these days are with established code bases or the iPhone which means Objective C.
People will still want a way to turn on and off devices that do not require you to find a remote. Maybe the wall switch will be part of the network but they will still be there. When I go to bed at night I put my cell on the charger. I do not want to have to take my cell or my remote with me to the bathroom to turn on the light. I do not want them to be automatic because I want to go into the bathroom and then turn on the light so I do not wake up my wife.
Two bad you where too much a coward to post none AC. I have heard a lot of about Haskell and functional programming languages but never have had the time to sit down and learn yet another way to program. I was brought up on structured and them moved to object oriented which is really handy.
When has Microsoft ever just killed off a technology that they pushed? Next thing you know will be telling me that VB6 and FoxPro are in danger of going away.
Yes in the US in some states you are required to be a member of the union to work in that field. They are called Union shops. The Employer is required to take your Union dues out of your wages and pass them on to the Union. In yes during some strikes the Union members have actually attacked none union workers that cross their picket lines. To me they are an extra layer that just often does more harm than good today. And in Apples case we are talking about retail jobs. These are traditionally the lowest paid unskilled jobs in the US. The best companies often pay more or offer benefits or some other perk to get the best people. Apple already does this already. Other companies that do off the top of my head are Publix supermarkets, Chick-Fil-a, and In and Out Burger. Funny thing is you can so tell the difference when you shop at those places. At Publix if you ask any employee a question they smile and answer you. They will help you find anything anytime. The best story I can tell you about Publix involves the death of my mother. My mother had cancer and went into Hospice care. My Stepfather who is in his 70s and my Sister that has a special needs child where really in a bad way. I drove to their town as fast as I could. My stepfather called their local Publix and explained what happened and ask if they could put a few things in aside for me to pick. They said no, give us as big of a list as you want and we will get it for you, package it up, and have it ready to go. When I got their and gave them a check for the food they asked me if I had a check card. I did not but the manager said," Don't worry and tell you mother we wish her and the rest of your family the best. If you need anything call." This is a huge chain with hundreds of stores. They pay their employees above what other stores do and offers benefits and they have no union.
You also can imagine that my family members will never shop anyplace else. The best companies need no unions. People just need to pick quality over the cheapest prices.
That is a layer that isn't needed. It is nothing but a way inject let another layer into the system. Unions have not worked well in so long it just isn't funny. When they pushed for Unionization votes to be by public ballot instead of private they lost all creditability in my eyes. The only reason to want a public ballot is to intimidate the electorate. The Unions want to know who is voting the way they don't like so they can take care of the trouble makers. Back in the late 70s when I was a child the Unions tried to Unionize Piper Aircraft. The Employees by and large didn't want that. Piper at the time offered high wages, great benefits, and even scholarship programs for the children of the employees. The Unions actually brought in thugs to threaten workers. The workers still voted them down. Oh the reason I know this is a good friend of mine's father was a welder on the line at the time. That is the opinion of a worker not the management. This case sounds almost identical. Apple is paying a very high wage with benefits. They only want people that want the best people and people that want to be there. I am not a libertarian or a total free market nut case. We have laws to provide protections for employees these are great and I support them. I even think they can be improved but I see little reason for unions in this day and age. Hey if you want to join a Union that is fine but I should never be forced to be a member of a union to have a job at any company. This forced membership is what I am opposed to and feels violates my protected freedom of association. There are states where If I where to start a company I would be forced by law to make my employees join a union and take money from their pay checks and hand it over to Unions! Even if they didn't want that? In those states it is breaking the law for someone to say I am going to start a company and pay you very well and provide these benefits and good working conditions all without the hassle of you joining a union. Also I should never be forced to strike and should never have deal with threats of violence just because I am happy in my job. Unions use all the tools that people accuse big business of, intimidation, threats, and violence to get their goals. All the while lining the pockets of the Unions Bosses. I had all the respect in the world for the Unions in the 1800 to the 1940s. After that they went down hill fast. They did wonders getting laws past for the protection of workers but now they are nothing but violent government supported gangs. Most of the intellectuals that support them have never been a member and never had to deal with the politics of them. They love the theory and history while ignoring the practice.
They do it is called the law. We have minimum wage laws, laws on over time, workers comp laws, workplace safety laws. In fact every protection that the labor unions originally wanted. The rest is just crap. Let's start combative relationship between the employee and the employer that is already paying well above the legal requirement and provides benefits well above the legal requirement. That is just stupid. Hey if the laws set those two low why not work to change those laws we have?
This is a clear case of unintended consequences. Microsoft doesn't care at all about block the sale of these controllers. What they didn't want was a bunch of cheap knock offs making money from their console.
Slashdot Mirror
Even if they are you should always look at optimizing the algorithm first. Once you have taken that as far as you can find the critical areas and then try to write small very optimized functions to improve those.
Using the required car metaphor. A good driver can out stop anti-lock brakes in tests. When someone slams on their brakes in front of you on a slick road things are different. Writing really optimized assembly code is so intense and demanding that it is a very rare person that can do it reliably for long periods of time. It is better to save that effort for small critical sections.
Funny but I would say the same thing about the java haters. I love you got that from study.
This was one test but the results are very interesting. The Java version was the easiest to implement. That has real value because many programs do not demand a lot of performance. Java would be a terrible choice for an OS, Browser, or anything that is really high performance. If you are going to write a Point of Sale System, a Home Accounting system, or any number of simple programs like that Java seems like a really good option. Add in it being multi platform and it is actually a good solutions for many types of programs. C++ is for anything that is going to be really demanding and when it is worth the time to really fine tune the code. It is almost always going to be the wrong language for a one off program.
For one offs Python and Perl are good and frankly so is Java.
Scala also seems really interesting it is producing faster code while running on the JVM which is really interesting.
One and C++ can be very close to multiplatform if you use QT but it takes a lot of work.
Different tools for different jobs. Java for some jobs will allow you to get out a reliable program into the hands of users much quicker than using C++ and that has it's own value. Think of Java as a container ship and C++ as a 747-F.
Maybe you should have read the conclusions.
C++
"We nd that in regards to performance, C++ wins out by a large margin. However, it also required the most extensive tuning efforts, many of which were done at a level of sophistication that would not be available to the average programmer"
So if you are working on performance critical code C++ is the way to go.
For Java
"The Java version was probably the simplest to implement, but the hardest to analyze for performance. Specically the effects around garbage collection were complicated and very hard to tune"
For speed of development and reliability are more important the speed of execution then Java seems like a good solution. For many programs all you need is for the program is fast enough all you need to do is have it be fast enough for your user to not have to wait. This is a large segment of software. Think of things like ATMs, Point of Sale System, or any of those Form plus data base programs that people use everyday.
Scala really interests me a lot
"Scala concise notation and powerful language features allowed for the best optimization of code complexity." I may really have to give this a long hard look.
And then you have GO.
"Go offers interesting language features, which also allow for a concise and standardized notation. The compilers for this language are still immature, which reects in both performance and binary sizes." To me this is a case of it not being ready for prime time yet.
Java can be as fast as C++ when you define fast as user perception. The few milliseconds improvement you may get with an Home Accounting system will not matter one bit to the users.
I wouldn't write a browser or a Flight Simulator in Java but there a lot of good programs written in Java and it is a good tool for some uses.
Maybe you should take a look at the conclusions of the study before you start bashing.
"I had honestly never heard of Chromium until now."
So you posted from the point of ignorance.
" And my line about vigilant hackers was merely for dramatically silly effect. "
So you feel that emotional manipulation is useful tactic.
So your post combines ignorance with the level of arrogance that cause you to feel that manipulation is needed to inform those that are not as wise you.
When dealing with technical issues it is better to use facts and not manipulation.
Don't be so literal. Frankly I am a nuclear power fan and live in a town with two reactors. They don't worry me at all. It is just the illusion that Italy isn't using nuclear power I fear.
Funny but maybe that is a flaw in the European mind set. To me a reactor in France or Italy are not that far apart. The nations in the Eu are very close to the size of US states. Have a reactor in the next state just isn't all that different than having it in this state depending on which way the wind blows if things go very bad.
Do you guys actually live with the illusion that if reactor pops that a boarder will make a lot of difference?
The US doesn't import much coal we mine it ourselves. We still drill for oil in the US. We do not say we are going to a coal free and oil free system and then buy coal power plants in mexico and Canada. We may buy plants that but we do not say we are coal and oil free. Of course some states do pull that and they too are also annoying. And yes I live near a nuclear power plant and I am glad that it isn't a coal plant and feel safe.
Funny but they have not abandoned nuclear power. They are pretending they have to make themselves feel good. They import no less than 16% of their electricity from France. They have just move the responsibility for the reactors to another nation. As Italy needs more power they will import more from France and use even more nuclear power outside of their own control and regulation. This should be called the Grand Delusion. They are just going to use more and more nuclear power while taking no responsibility for it themselves.
Welcome to reality 101.
With our customer base the more completely independent the actual program is the better off we are. I know that their are ways to package up Perl but I have not looked at other options. Also we do not distribute source with all of our programs. We only do that with our FOSS projects which we have a few small ones. For Windows compiled systems are just so much easier to distribute. For in house stuff I use Perl for the throw aways and Java for the real apps. I keep hoping we can move our clerical staff off of Windows to Linux so Java was a good choice at the time for portability. As it is I am having a heck of a time just getting them off Office and onto OO.org. And I actually like programing in Java. And no my programs are not slow except when I make an error in database design. Usually I can fix that with a look bit of attention to detail. But then we are running an almost million tuple database on a 600Mhz P3 server with 50 or so users.
I would say you are making some rather rude statements just to be smug.
Did you not know that most of Firefox's revenue comes from Google?
And no vigilant hackers are not what we need. vigilant programmers are. If you bothered to look before you posted you find that Chromium is FOSS under the Apache 2 license. In other words this poast was a waste of electrons and sound like Microsoft level FUD.
Yea my wife uses it for her wordpress blog and loves it. And for $12 you are paying more for the domain name then the hosting.
If it fits you needs it is a great deal.
That combined with nosupportlinuxhosting.com. You have to buy a year at a time but at $12 a year you are all set.
No it would be wise. Thing is that it is probably blocked by a bureaucratic hell at Microsoft. If they where really smart they would offer to give this guy the parts to make these controllers. Probably cost them all of a $1000 and be worth millions in good PR.
Sorry but outside of a few exceptions I have yet to see a good Union. The Teachers union are pretty good over all but outside of that my experience has been corruption, threats, and stalemate.
Everything from the Football and Baseball unions where we get to see them fight over who is the most greedy the Millionaire players or the Billionaire owners. To the unions at the trade shows I have gone too where they charge us $80 for them to plug in a power strip or charge use to watch us put up our booth.
Your mythical good unions seem to be the exception and not the rule.
True but most of my projects these days are for commercial distribution so a compiled language is a requirement and all my projects these days are with established code bases or the iPhone which means Objective C.
Trouble is I have a project to get out now. And alway seem to.
Did you miss "The end of the light switch statment?"
I was joking and I guess you are stupid.
People will still want a way to turn on and off devices that do not require you to find a remote. Maybe the wall switch will be part of the network but they will still be there.
When I go to bed at night I put my cell on the charger. I do not want to have to take my cell or my remote with me to the bathroom to turn on the light. I do not want them to be automatic because I want to go into the bathroom and then turn on the light so I do not wake up my wife.
Two bad you where too much a coward to post none AC. I have heard a lot of about Haskell and functional programming languages but never have had the time to sit down and learn yet another way to program. I was brought up on structured and them moved to object oriented which is really handy.
Good point. ARM cpus are getting so cheap and powerful you can make a desktop system for next to nothing.
When has Microsoft ever just killed off a technology that they pushed? Next thing you know will be telling me that VB6 and FoxPro are in danger of going away.
Yes in the US in some states you are required to be a member of the union to work in that field. They are called Union shops. The Employer is required to take your Union dues out of your wages and pass them on to the Union. In yes during some strikes the Union members have actually attacked none union workers that cross their picket lines. To me they are an extra layer that just often does more harm than good today. And in Apples case we are talking about retail jobs. These are traditionally the lowest paid unskilled jobs in the US. The best companies often pay more or offer benefits or some other perk to get the best people. Apple already does this already. Other companies that do off the top of my head are Publix supermarkets, Chick-Fil-a, and In and Out Burger. Funny thing is you can so tell the difference when you shop at those places. At Publix if you ask any employee a question they smile and answer you. They will help you find anything anytime. The best story I can tell you about Publix involves the death of my mother. My mother had cancer and went into Hospice care. My Stepfather who is in his 70s and my Sister that has a special needs child where really in a bad way. I drove to their town as fast as I could. My stepfather called their local Publix and explained what happened and ask if they could put a few things in aside for me to pick. They said no, give us as big of a list as you want and we will get it for you, package it up, and have it ready to go. When I got their and gave them a check for the food they asked me if I had a check card. I did not but the manager said," Don't worry and tell you mother we wish her and the rest of your family the best. If you need anything call."
This is a huge chain with hundreds of stores. They pay their employees above what other stores do and offers benefits and they have no union.
You also can imagine that my family members will never shop anyplace else. The best companies need no unions. People just need to pick quality over the cheapest prices.
That is a layer that isn't needed. It is nothing but a way inject let another layer into the system. Unions have not worked well in so long it just isn't funny. When they pushed for Unionization votes to be by public ballot instead of private they lost all creditability in my eyes. The only reason to want a public ballot is to intimidate the electorate. The Unions want to know who is voting the way they don't like so they can take care of the trouble makers.
Back in the late 70s when I was a child the Unions tried to Unionize Piper Aircraft. The Employees by and large didn't want that. Piper at the time offered high wages, great benefits, and even scholarship programs for the children of the employees. The Unions actually brought in thugs to threaten workers. The workers still voted them down. Oh the reason I know this is a good friend of mine's father was a welder on the line at the time. That is the opinion of a worker not the management. This case sounds almost identical. Apple is paying a very high wage with benefits. They only want people that want the best people and people that want to be there.
I am not a libertarian or a total free market nut case. We have laws to provide protections for employees these are great and I support them. I even think they can be improved but I see little reason for unions in this day and age. Hey if you want to join a Union that is fine but I should never be forced to be a member of a union to have a job at any company. This forced membership is what I am opposed to and feels violates my protected freedom of association. There are states where If I where to start a company I would be forced by law to make my employees join a union and take money from their pay checks and hand it over to Unions! Even if they didn't want that? In those states it is breaking the law for someone to say I am going to start a company and pay you very well and provide these benefits and good working conditions all without the hassle of you joining a union. Also I should never be forced to strike and should never have deal with threats of violence just because I am happy in my job. Unions use all the tools that people accuse big business of, intimidation, threats, and violence to get their goals. All the while lining the pockets of the Unions Bosses. I had all the respect in the world for the Unions in the 1800 to the 1940s. After that they went down hill fast. They did wonders getting laws past for the protection of workers but now they are nothing but violent government supported gangs. Most of the intellectuals that support them have never been a member and never had to deal with the politics of them. They love the theory and history while ignoring the practice.
They do it is called the law. We have minimum wage laws, laws on over time, workers comp laws, workplace safety laws. In fact every protection that the labor unions originally wanted. The rest is just crap. Let's start combative relationship between the employee and the employer that is already paying well above the legal requirement and provides benefits well above the legal requirement. That is just stupid. Hey if the laws set those two low why not work to change those laws we have?
This is a clear case of unintended consequences. Microsoft doesn't care at all about block the sale of these controllers. What they didn't want was a bunch of cheap knock offs making money from their console.