Even leaving aside the propaganda that comes out of Milosevic's camp (didn't the Serbs shoot down the whole NATO air force by now?)...
I think NATO is hiding it's losses, don't you? NATO praises the effectiveness of Serb AA, then says it can't hit anything.
Bombing many many civilian vehicles, and then telling the people "oops" Are you saying NATO does this intentionally, on purpose? If so, could you tell us all what that purpose might be?
To break the will of the Serbian people of course. The same reason we bombed civilians in Vietnam and Iraq.
eradicating civilian journalists (Serb and Chinese) Do you want to say that US intentionally targeted the Chinese embassy in order to kill Chinese journalists? Really?
To appear tough on China in the wake of the bribery scandal? To rally the ultra-right behind the President? Who knows. The excuses are pretty flimsy.
Not to mention the sheer audacity of flouting all international law in order to maintain one's "credibility" International law is very vague with regard to waging war, for obvious reasons. Could you specifically tell us exactly which law is NATO breaking?
The UN charter (by waging war without security council approval), and the Geneva Convention (by targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure like schools and hospitals), and by using cluster bombs, which are a banned weapon.
trying to reconquer ancient Serb territory from the neo-nazi KLA KLA are not angels, but they have are fighting for survival. And "ancient Serb territory" -- how about Germany trying to recover ancient German territory -- Prussia -- from Poland and Russia? Or Poland recovering traditional Polish lands from Ukraine and Belorussia? Or Azerbaijanis recovering their land from Iran? I could go on and on...
Whatever may have happened previously, the KLA started this particular round of fighting. The KLA had conquered 2/3 of Kosovo before the Serb military decided to react.
Anyhoo, I don't hate the US, I just deplore this illegal, immoral, and ineptly-executed war. Imperialism in any form is deplorable.
From a Sam Smith piece at http://www.prorev.com...
FROM A COLUMN BY TONY SNOW: Key members of the United States Senate sat slack-jawed through a confidential briefing last Thursday from the Clinton administration foreign-policy team. ~~ After the foreign-policy wise men asserted that the United States has a moral imperative to stop the murderous Serbian president, Slobodan Milosevic, one senator asked: How many Albanians have Milosevic's troops massacred this year? The president's emissaries turned ashen. They glanced at each other. They rifled through their papers. One hazarded a guess: "Two thousand?" No, the senator replied, that was the number for all of last year. He wanted figures for the last month - or even the year to date, since the president had painted such a grisly picture of genocide in his March 24 address to the nation. ~~ The senator pressed on. How often have such slaughters occurred? Nobody knew. As it turns out, Kosovo has been about as bloody this year as, say, Atlanta. You can measure the deaths not in the hundreds, but dozens. (I'm not trying to deny Milosevic's brutality here; only to provide some comparisons.) More people died last week in Borneo than have expired this year in Kosovar bloodshed - more died in a single Russian bomb blast; in a single outburst of violence in East Timor; in a single day in Rwanda. China has been bloodier this year.
Russia, China, India, Japan, S. Africa, Brazil, and all the CIS countries are flatly against this war and are demanding an immediate halt. That puts the majority of powerful nations against us.
Serbia-info is certainly selective with the truth.
Yes, but so is Western media. Did you like that bleeding heart story about the Albanian baby named "Amerikan", to the complete exclusion of the proceedings of FRY vs NATO in the International Court of Justice? Give me a fucking break!!!
I say read both. Both state-run medias are complete whitewash on one subject or another.
Yes, Milosevic (though elected by parliament) is behaving like a dictator.
I think the big brother award certainly goes to the NATO countries, and the US/CNN in particular.
Faking satellite photos, faking dead bodies, faking pictures of muslims in refugee camps, and doctoring photos to make Clinton taller than anyone else in the picture; Bombing many many civilian vehicles, and then telling the people "oops"; eradicating civilian journalists (Serb and Chinese) who broadcast pictures of the destruction out of the country.
Not to mention the sheer audacity of flouting all international law in order to maintain one's "credibility".
Milosevic may be bad, but trying to reconquer ancient Serb territory from the neo-nazi KLA hardly makes him Hitler. Hitler invaded sovergn nations under the pretext of humanitarian intervention (Czechoslovakia). Sound familiar?
NATO is running out of "military" targets. During the past couple of days NATO has bombed a bread truck, an elementary school, a farmers collective, a hospital, and yes, plain old villiages full of people.
The undeclared objective in this conflict is to break the resistance of the Serbs to get them to capitulate. The only way life can suck any more for these people is if NATO expands its civilian bombing.
Obviously, NATO doesn't want the rest of us to see these images of clusterbombs and dead civilians, which is why they have been going after Serb TV like crazy. Of course the media blackout is incomplete with all these Serbs posting war information and pictures to their websites.
And social cliques are real, why do you think the other students referred to the Quake-heads as the "Trenchcoat Mafia"
(BTW, I was home sick that day and watched the whole situation unfold before me. "trenchcoat mafia" was an epithet that the popular students used to refer to them, not what they called themselves. But leave it to the media to snatch up and persue any possible connection to gangs and racism.)
At work, with NT 4.0 SP3 and Redhat 5.2 on compaq deskpro 6000's w/ 128 MB RAM.
I tested file transfers mostly, and I can tell you they are about equal, with a very slight edge going to the linux box. With file transfers, the bottleneck is ususally the ethernet card.
I even tested the DES client on each box, which I figured should be nearly 100% CPU dependant. Still, a slight edge went to the Linux client, which suprised me.
I think the habit of constantly trying to conquer nature, and only considering immediate consequences is one particular to Anglo-Americans and Russians.
Japan, China, and India for example are for the most part very good at planning many generations into the future, and considering all those nagging what-if's. (much to the chagrin of the US.)
--
What is the point of GM food?
on
Gene Leakage
·
· Score: 1
Unfortunately, that is our system.
This situation will persist until we Americans do away with our WWII government completely like the most of the rest of the world has.
The revolution may not be televised, but it will feature some outstanding graphic art.
Seriously though, I subscribe to Adbusters, and I think it's the nuts. But I wish it would contain more factual articles and less Ivan Stang style rants.
That, and they seem too self-absorbed to ever try to organize or join any substantive protest beyond defacing billboards.
Undoubtedly the ecosystem would recover, it always does. What we're concerned about here is the chaos it could cause before it recovers. Consider this scenario:
Monsanto releases its bio-engineered soybean plants that are insect-resistant, but have the side effect of having sterile offspring *most hybrids do by design, IIRC). Agribusiness A plants the hybrids, which cross-pollenate with the normal soybean fields of family farmers B - Z. That fall, those farmers reserve 10% of their harvest for seed, and maybe sell that seed to some other farmers in the 3rd world, etc. The next year, all those farmers' fields won't grow, causing a massive shortage of soybeans. From then on, only Agribusiness A can buy and grow soybeans, and Monsanto has agricultural production by the proverbial balls.
Multiply that situation by all the other crops that can be made sterile, and all producers except those who can afford Monsanto's yearly seed subscription go out of business. Poor 3rd world subsistence farmers could starve to death. All that could happen within about 3 years.
You're right. We are eating big fat cow pies from CNN (which gets its news filtered by the state dept.).
I've been reading war "coverage" on www.zmag.net, which has the other sides of most US foreign policies. Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, and the other American dissident intellectuals post their articles there.
As for the 88 Nato dead, where did you read that? I'm sure it's true, no war is bloodless, but I'd like to read it myself.
If anything, the internet makes it possible to circumvent the media and the state dept.'s propaganda about war. I say god bless it.
Every war since WWI has been a media war. The biggest threat to the US's genocidal military policies (not referring to Kossovo in this case) has been and is the American public.
In every conflict since the FUBARed media PR situation during Vietnam, public discourse about the US's military involvements have been carefully bounded and channeled.
In the cases of the Gulf and Yugoslavia, there has been no debate about wether the situation warrants US involvement, or wether the US has the mandate to intervene wherever it feels like. The debates are confined to what the length of the operation should be, and wether and when ground troops should be deployed. The American public then takes sides on those issues.
You can go pretty far in the industry with no degree; CS, EE or otherwise. However I think most real geeks won't be satisfied with just a lot of money, and will one day wish they could get something like one of those cool Transmeta jobs.
I just left a $60K/year job to go back for my CS degree and back to eating instant ramen as my only meal of the day. I think it's worth it. Please tell me it's worth it:)
Slashdot Mirror
the whole NATO air force by now?)...
I think NATO is hiding it's losses, don't you? NATO praises the effectiveness of Serb AA, then says it can't hit anything.
Bombing many many civilian vehicles, and then telling the people "oops"
Are you saying NATO does this intentionally, on purpose? If so, could you tell us all what that
purpose might be?
To break the will of the Serbian people of course. The same reason we bombed civilians in Vietnam and Iraq.
eradicating civilian journalists (Serb and Chinese)
Do you want to say that US intentionally targeted the Chinese embassy in order to kill Chinese
journalists? Really?
To appear tough on China in the wake of the bribery scandal? To rally the ultra-right behind the President? Who knows. The excuses are pretty flimsy.
Not to mention the sheer audacity of flouting all international law in order to maintain one's "credibility"
International law is very vague with regard to waging war, for obvious reasons. Could you specifically
tell us exactly which law is NATO breaking?
The UN charter (by waging war without security council approval), and the Geneva Convention (by targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure like schools and hospitals), and by using cluster bombs, which are a banned weapon.
trying to reconquer ancient Serb territory from the neo-nazi KLA
KLA are not angels, but they have are fighting for survival. And "ancient Serb territory" -- how about
Germany trying to recover ancient German territory -- Prussia -- from Poland and Russia? Or Poland
recovering traditional Polish lands from Ukraine and Belorussia? Or Azerbaijanis recovering their land
from Iran? I could go on and on...
Whatever may have happened previously, the KLA started this particular round of fighting. The KLA had conquered 2/3 of Kosovo before the Serb military decided to react.
Anyhoo, I don't hate the US, I just deplore this illegal, immoral, and ineptly-executed war. Imperialism in any form is deplorable.
From a Sam Smith piece at http://www.prorev.com ...
FROM A COLUMN BY TONY SNOW: Key
members of the United States Senate sat
slack-jawed through a confidential briefing last
Thursday from the Clinton administration
foreign-policy team. ~~ After the foreign-policy
wise men asserted that the United States has a
moral imperative to stop the murderous Serbian
president, Slobodan Milosevic, one senator
asked: How many Albanians have Milosevic's
troops massacred this year? The president's
emissaries turned ashen. They glanced at each
other. They rifled through their papers. One
hazarded a guess: "Two thousand?" No, the
senator replied, that was the number for all of last
year. He wanted figures for the last month - or
even the year to date, since the president had
painted such a grisly picture of genocide in his
March 24 address to the nation. ~~ The senator
pressed on. How often have such slaughters
occurred? Nobody knew. As it turns out,
Kosovo has been about as bloody this year as,
say, Atlanta. You can measure the deaths not in
the hundreds, but dozens. (I'm not trying to deny
Milosevic's brutality here; only to provide some
comparisons.) More people died last week in
Borneo than have expired this year in Kosovar
bloodshed - more died in a single Russian bomb
blast; in a single outburst of violence in East
Timor; in a single day in Rwanda. China has been
bloodier this year.
Russia, China, India, Japan, S. Africa, Brazil, and all the CIS countries are flatly against this war and are demanding an immediate halt. That puts the majority of powerful nations against us.
Yes, but so is Western media. Did you like that bleeding heart story about the Albanian baby named "Amerikan", to the complete exclusion of the proceedings of FRY vs NATO in the International Court of Justice? Give me a fucking break!!!
I say read both. Both state-run medias are complete whitewash on one subject or another.
I think the big brother award certainly goes to the NATO countries, and the US/CNN in particular.
Faking satellite photos, faking dead bodies, faking pictures of muslims in refugee camps, and doctoring photos to make Clinton taller than anyone else in the picture; Bombing many many civilian vehicles, and then telling the people "oops"; eradicating civilian journalists (Serb and Chinese) who broadcast pictures of the destruction out of the country.
Not to mention the sheer audacity of flouting all international law in order to maintain one's "credibility".
Milosevic may be bad, but trying to reconquer ancient Serb territory from the neo-nazi KLA hardly makes him Hitler. Hitler invaded sovergn nations under the pretext of humanitarian intervention (Czechoslovakia). Sound familiar?
What the hell is going on here?
We should send NATO to DC, where people are REALLY oppressed homeless and dying.
The Yugoslavs themselves say they get internet via sattelite. Beograd.com certainly is, it's run off a generator in some guys apartment.
During the past couple of days NATO has bombed a bread truck, an elementary school, a farmers collective, a hospital, and yes, plain old villiages full of people.
The undeclared objective in this conflict is to break the resistance of the Serbs to get them to capitulate. The only way life can suck any more for these people is if NATO expands its civilian bombing.
Obviously, NATO doesn't want the rest of us to see these images of clusterbombs and dead civilians, which is why they have been going after Serb TV like crazy. Of course the media blackout is incomplete with all these Serbs posting war information and pictures to their websites.
Toink! There go the satellites.
Virginia is where the internet crosses the Atlantic to Europe. Any European or Russian site will appear to come from Virginia.
several million Rwandans mean nothing to the US, but about 2016 Albanian dead mean we demand the unconditional surrender of Serbia?
Seems pretty black & white to me.
And social cliques are real, why do you think the other students referred to the Quake-heads as the "Trenchcoat Mafia"
(BTW, I was home sick that day and watched the whole situation unfold before me. "trenchcoat mafia" was an epithet that the popular students used to refer to them, not what they called themselves. But leave it to the media to snatch up and persue any possible connection to gangs and racism.)
One report I read stated that the Colorado students were "goths", and that goths were in general a death-obsessed violent subgroup.
I guess one look at my wardrobe and CD collection would qualify me and all my friends as members of a terrorist organization. What horseshit.
I tested file transfers mostly, and I can tell you they are about equal, with a very slight edge going to the linux box. With file transfers, the bottleneck is ususally the ethernet card.
I even tested the DES client on each box, which I figured should be nearly 100% CPU dependant. Still, a slight edge went to the Linux client, which suprised me.
(Sorry, I don't have the numbers anymore...)
--
as soon as we have a terminal working.
--
If you are, you have cause to be worried.
--
I think the habit of constantly trying to conquer nature, and only considering immediate consequences is one particular to Anglo-Americans and Russians.
Japan, China, and India for example are for the most part very good at planning many generations into the future, and considering all those nagging what-if's. (much to the chagrin of the US.)
--
This situation will persist until we Americans do away with our WWII government completely like the most of the rest of the world has.
--
Seriously though, I subscribe to Adbusters, and I think it's the nuts. But I wish it would contain more factual articles and less Ivan Stang style rants.
That, and they seem too self-absorbed to ever try to organize or join any substantive protest beyond defacing billboards.
--
With really cool hair I might add, especially if you're of East Asian descent.
(I know that has nothing to do with "gene leakage", but I think that's the most probable way GM plants will propogate themselves.)
Sorry, I'm rambling.
--
Humanity would survive if I went and killed all my neighbors too. That doesn't make it an ethical thing to be doing.
--
Undoubtedly the ecosystem would recover, it always does. What we're concerned about here is the chaos it could cause before it recovers. Consider this scenario:
Monsanto releases its bio-engineered soybean plants that are insect-resistant, but have the side effect of having sterile offspring *most hybrids do by design, IIRC). Agribusiness A plants the hybrids, which cross-pollenate with the normal soybean fields of family farmers B - Z. That fall, those farmers reserve 10% of their harvest for seed, and maybe sell that seed to some other farmers in the 3rd world, etc. The next year, all those farmers' fields won't grow, causing a massive shortage of soybeans. From then on, only Agribusiness A can buy and grow soybeans, and Monsanto has agricultural production by the proverbial balls.
Multiply that situation by all the other crops that can be made sterile, and all producers except those who can afford Monsanto's yearly seed subscription go out of business. Poor 3rd world subsistence farmers could starve to death. All that could happen within about 3 years.
--
I've been reading war "coverage" on www.zmag.net, which has the other sides of most US foreign policies. Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, and the other American dissident intellectuals post their articles there.
As for the 88 Nato dead, where did you read that? I'm sure it's true, no war is bloodless, but I'd like to read it myself.
If anything, the internet makes it possible to circumvent the media and the state dept.'s propaganda about war. I say god bless it.
--
In every conflict since the FUBARed media PR situation during Vietnam, public discourse about the US's military involvements have been carefully bounded and channeled.
In the cases of the Gulf and Yugoslavia, there has been no debate about wether the situation warrants US involvement, or wether the US has the mandate to intervene wherever it feels like. The debates are confined to what the length of the operation should be, and wether and when ground troops should be deployed. The American public then takes sides on those issues.
Public involvement in US policy is an illusion.
--
I just left a $60K/year job to go back for my CS degree and back to eating instant ramen as my only meal of the day. I think it's worth it. Please tell me it's worth it
--