Really? All the things fundamentally wrong with the Beta, and you want us to believe you're listening to us and things have changed radically because you changed the screen width?
We're well aware that people come here for the comments. That's why comments are at the top of our list of features that need more work on the Beta site.
WTF? If you're so aware - how can you go into a public beta with a comment system that simply does not work? As with 'listening', what you claim and what you've done are universes apart.
When design/feature discussions happen, we editors are most fiercely protective of the commenters and submitters, because you're the ones who drive the site.
All the complaints about the Beta that have been floated in the last day or so are the very same ones that were submitted three months ago. There's absolutely zero evidence that you've taken our concerns under consideration or that they've had any effect on the course of the Beta.
Seriously, we're not buying it. The gulf between what you claim and the facts in evidence is so vast... I can't even come up with an appropriate analogy.
I don't know where the rock is you've been living under, but you should come out from under it more often.
We gave feedback three months ago when Beta premiered. All of it was ignored. All of it. We've tried feedback, and it's failed. That's why we've moved onto the next step, to activism.
Now, sod off back under your rock, I think you left your clue there.
This post indicates that our concerns have been heard. Give them a chance.
They've had three months, they've had their chance. They squandered it.
in view of this post it is most unfair to say that our concerns have not been heard
In view of their complete failure to fix the known bugs in the Beta, let alone to materially alter a fundamentally flawed design... it's quite fair to say that our concerns have not been heard. From this and corporatespeak nature of timothy's post, it's quite clear that this situation is unlikely to change. Corporate management at Dice simply has no grasp of the magnitude of their failure.
As someone who gave testing the new design some effort (in a helpful community member beta-test sort of way) I noticed right-away the ability to switch to classic (which they didn't have to do).
But you seem to have failed to notice how badly the site was broken - and their announced intent to end support for Classic. Offering a choice between chocolate and rotting fish guts for dinner tonight is nice and all, but being told that regardless of what we chose tonight that from Tuesday onward it would be forever rotting fish guts... well, that kinda takes the pleasure away from the chocolate.
I seem to have had this now misguided impression that there was a healthy professional element of the community here who would give constructive feedback but all I've seen is a mob of angry comment children.
We did give constructive feedback - back in October when the Beta debuted. They completely failed to take that feedback into account or to make material changes to the Beta. We told them comments were broken, they're still broken. We told them the UI was unacceptable and broken, it's still unacceptable and broken. (Etc... etc...) That is why everyone so pissed.
From this and some of the things on the Beta FAQ I get the sinking feeling they're trying to move in the same direction that so many other sites are... into being "Web 2.0" and "social" and becoming SlashFaceBook.* They really don't grasp that a good chunk of the community doesn't care for that. (Heck, they don't even grasp that we are a community as opposed to being their "audience".)
* Comparing that bland and meaningless FAQ to the original tells you all you need to know. They're dumbing it down.
Some of you have suggested we're not listening; on the contrary, some of us are 'listening' pretty much full-time.
If you're listening, there's no evidence of it. You were plainly and clearly told of the flaws in the Beta site back in October and you have completely failed to fix them in the intervening months. It's not like you missed a minor bug or two, or got the color wrong by one hex numeral... it's a complete failure to grasp how badly the new site is broken and how ugly it is or to do anything about it. We gave you months, and you've wasted them.
okay, we've got it
No, you don't "got" it. Not even close, despite having a thermonuclear weapon detonate in your lap.
We want to take our current content and all the stuff that matters to this community and deliver it on a site that still speaks to the interests and habits of our current audience
And this shows just hopelessly you don't "got" it - we are not your audience, we are a community, we are Slashdot.
The main thing we want is a site that doesn't look old and stale
That can be fixed without turning into the stale, soulless (and badly broken), monstrosity that is Beta.
that will slowly drive readers and contributors away
Beta is going to do that in days.
You and your bosses just don't get it. We've been telling you for months how ugly and dysfunctional is is, and you've refused to believe us and refused to fix the problems. We're not going to start buying into the new site based on eleventh hour promises that the suits are listening and things will someday be fixed when we have months of evidence to the contrary. You are demonstrably not listening. You are demonstrably not fixing the problems.
I hope whichever suit is driving this steaming pile had a golden parachute, because the point is about to be driven home with a thermonuclear weapon.
If I may ask: has anyone in the userbase specifically requested that classic view support be dropped?
No, of course not. And make no mistake, we'd love to leave the classic site around in perpetuity for those who prefer it.
But it does take engineering resources to maintain. Maybe not a lot, but not a trivial amount either. There are a number of concerns here; eventually, something about the old site will break, and we'll have to dedicate engineering time to fixing it.
Do you think you're talking to children here? What you say of the old code is equally true of the new code.
We appreciate the communication, but we only only appreciate communication. If all you're going to do is sling bullshit, go home. We're not illiterates and we know marketdroid bull a mile away.
If we were ignoring you, we would have just flipped the switch and not looked back.
But that's essentially what you're doing - the switch may be flipping in slow motion, but it's flipping none the less. All the pious corporatespeak to the contrary doesn't change that one bit. You claim to regard the community, while completely *disregarding* them.
But unless I've missed something, this doesn't seem to be applying Game Theory, which is about conflict and cooperation between competitors in order to succeed.
You've missed about 75% of Game theory - which is the study of decision making. (The pure study or conflict and cooperation is something else entirely.) How conflict and cooperation alters the decision making process is just one small part of the field.
The issue isn't analog v. digital - it's holding the new system to the octuple nines level of reliability demonstrated by the old system. The various service providers very badly don't want to be held to such standards, it cuts sharply into their profits.
It works this well because it is/mandated/ that the resources required to/make it reliable/ are/spent/ to make it so.
It also works well because we've spent a century plus working out the technology and growing the infrastructure right alongside the growth of the town and density increases in the countryside.
If wireless networks were provisioned with the battery backup/generators necessary and the redundancy of overlapping coverage to account for faults in towers (or some random drunk plowing in to one) then they too would be this 'reliable'
Only if you lived somewhere that's nice flat plain or a relatively dense urban core. Though who live in hillier terrain and less dense areas won't be so lucky. Those of us who live in hilly terrain that's low density and *also* a deeply indented coastline... well, it's unlikely we'll ever see cellular reaching POTS level of reliability. Because of topography, there's simply too many blind spots with too few residents to make redundant cellular coverage reasonable.
And I haven't even mentioned the people that live in sparsely populated areas, let along very hilly sparsely populated areas.
I agree. The grandparent doesn't recognize there's a difference between places that offer "experience/entertainment" (rock & roll fantasy camps, knitting retreats) and places that offer (or purport to offer) " professional education/experience" (the coder bootcamps). He's mistakenly keying off the (practically generic) term in common between them - "camp".
The line seems to be drawn (correctly IMO) somewhere in between offering intangible experiences and purporting to offer tangible financial benefits. There's always going to be some that have to be examined on a case-by-case basis (like survival schools that purport to offer real life skills), but the line is there regardless.
Educational scams have been around a very long time, which is why the line and a government bureau to enforce it exists.
To be clear, I wrote that I reported folks who used a variant to the variant-user. e.g. send email as foo@yahoo.com instead of foo2525@yahoo.com and I get the email reply, I sent it on to foo2525 with a note that they used the wrong email.
To be clear, no you didn't write any such thing. You didn't write anything even close to such a thing.
Your mistake isn't that you didn't add "respectively", it's that you're a clueless moron who not only didn't read what he wrote, but for 'reporting them to Yahoo' and believing Yahoo! could do anything about such third parties.
And yahoo has never given a shit. Not once. Period. IMHO, 'cause it was one account-holder.
And frankly, that's as it should be. If you lucked into an especially desirable account name, it's not Yahoo!'s responsibility to keep people who want to buy it away from you. And reporting people who have a variant? Seriously? Unless it's a trademark or copyright issue, you have precisely zero leg to stand on. Yahoo! isn't responsible for your sense of self entitlement.
Meanwhile, I've had a Yahoo! account for decades now with no problems at all.
Seems like you know jack about the Military on the surface, so I'll point out another huge difference between civilian jobs and military. In the civilian world you can change jobs when ever the hell you want. In the Military you can't do this, you have to serve out your term.
And not only do you have to serve out your term - you're pretty much always stuck in your job field, as there's very little lateral mobility. Once you come out of school, you're pretty much pipelined for your entire career. If you're a widget tech you might be able to swap from Widget MK88/2 to Widget MK98/0, but it's difficult-to-impossible to become a twiddler operator... so if the widget pipeline is stopped up, you're screwed unless the twiddler pipeline is *very* desperate for bodies.
That's the problem I faced in my career... we were a tiny specialty (800 odd people) that were very expensive to create (because of a lengthy training pipeline and the high security clearances required), so even when the pipeline was overmanned the Navy forbid us to swap rates. I couldn't even get out and come back as something else, I'd have had to swap services. (Something I had no interest in doing - the other services don't have submarines.)
Slashdot Mirror
Really? All the things fundamentally wrong with the Beta, and you want us to believe you're listening to us and things have changed radically because you changed the screen width?
WTF? If you're so aware - how can you go into a public beta with a comment system that simply does not work? As with 'listening', what you claim and what you've done are universes apart.
All the complaints about the Beta that have been floated in the last day or so are the very same ones that were submitted three months ago. There's absolutely zero evidence that you've taken our concerns under consideration or that they've had any effect on the course of the Beta.
Seriously, we're not buying it. The gulf between what you claim and the facts in evidence is so vast... I can't even come up with an appropriate analogy.
I don't know where the rock is you've been living under, but you should come out from under it more often.
We gave feedback three months ago when Beta premiered. All of it was ignored. All of it . We've tried feedback, and it's failed. That's why we've moved onto the next step, to activism.
Now, sod off back under your rock, I think you left your clue there.
I'm thinking this is the first time I've heard of technocrat.net...
The post button is already right at the top, right below the summary and the BS, right where you adjust your viewing threshold.
They've had three months, they've had their chance. They squandered it.
In view of their complete failure to fix the known bugs in the Beta, let alone to materially alter a fundamentally flawed design... it's quite fair to say that our concerns have not been heard. From this and corporatespeak nature of timothy's post, it's quite clear that this situation is unlikely to change. Corporate management at Dice simply has no grasp of the magnitude of their failure.
That functionality is already present in Classic - that's what the "Post" button is for.
But you seem to have failed to notice how badly the site was broken - and their announced intent to end support for Classic. Offering a choice between chocolate and rotting fish guts for dinner tonight is nice and all, but being told that regardless of what we chose tonight that from Tuesday onward it would be forever rotting fish guts... well, that kinda takes the pleasure away from the chocolate.
We did give constructive feedback - back in October when the Beta debuted. They completely failed to take that feedback into account or to make material changes to the Beta. We told them comments were broken, they're still broken. We told them the UI was unacceptable and broken, it's still unacceptable and broken. (Etc... etc...) That is why everyone so pissed.
From this and some of the things on the Beta FAQ I get the sinking feeling they're trying to move in the same direction that so many other sites are... into being "Web 2.0" and "social" and becoming SlashFaceBook.* They really don't grasp that a good chunk of the community doesn't care for that. (Heck, they don't even grasp that we are a community as opposed to being their "audience".)
* Comparing that bland and meaningless FAQ to the original tells you all you need to know. They're dumbing it down.
If you're listening, there's no evidence of it. You were plainly and clearly told of the flaws in the Beta site back in October and you have completely failed to fix them in the intervening months. It's not like you missed a minor bug or two, or got the color wrong by one hex numeral... it's a complete failure to grasp how badly the new site is broken and how ugly it is or to do anything about it. We gave you months, and you've wasted them.
No, you don't "got" it. Not even close, despite having a thermonuclear weapon detonate in your lap.
And this shows just hopelessly you don't "got" it - we are not your audience, we are a community, we are Slashdot.
That can be fixed without turning into the stale, soulless (and badly broken), monstrosity that is Beta.
Beta is going to do that in days.
You and your bosses just don't get it. We've been telling you for months how ugly and dysfunctional is is, and you've refused to believe us and refused to fix the problems. We're not going to start buying into the new site based on eleventh hour promises that the suits are listening and things will someday be fixed when we have months of evidence to the contrary. You are demonstrably not listening. You are demonstrably not fixing the problems.
I hope whichever suit is driving this steaming pile had a golden parachute, because the point is about to be driven home with a thermonuclear weapon.
Do you think you're talking to children here? What you say of the old code is equally true of the new code.
We appreciate the communication, but we only only appreciate communication. If all you're going to do is sling bullshit, go home. We're not illiterates and we know marketdroid bull a mile away.
But that's essentially what you're doing - the switch may be flipping in slow motion, but it's flipping none the less. All the pious corporatespeak to the contrary doesn't change that one bit. You claim to regard the community, while completely *disregarding* them.
You've missed about 75% of Game theory - which is the study of decision making. (The pure study or conflict and cooperation is something else entirely.) How conflict and cooperation alters the decision making process is just one small part of the field.
In other words, you don't have a citation to support your claim.
Noted.
[[Citation Needed]]
The linked article suggests the opposite and shows that signing off on code submissions is overwhelmingly corporate.
The issue isn't analog v. digital - it's holding the new system to the octuple nines level of reliability demonstrated by the old system. The various service providers very badly don't want to be held to such standards, it cuts sharply into their profits.
It also works well because we've spent a century plus working out the technology and growing the infrastructure right alongside the growth of the town and density increases in the countryside.
Only if you lived somewhere that's nice flat plain or a relatively dense urban core. Though who live in hillier terrain and less dense areas won't be so lucky. Those of us who live in hilly terrain that's low density and *also* a deeply indented coastline... well, it's unlikely we'll ever see cellular reaching POTS level of reliability. Because of topography, there's simply too many blind spots with too few residents to make redundant cellular coverage reasonable.
And I haven't even mentioned the people that live in sparsely populated areas, let along very hilly sparsely populated areas.
Only in the mind of a Southern Californian, they're like Manhattanites in their narrow view of the world.
Not in Washington we don't... "West coast" != "Southern California".
I agree. The grandparent doesn't recognize there's a difference between places that offer "experience/entertainment" (rock & roll fantasy camps, knitting retreats) and places that offer (or purport to offer) " professional education/experience" (the coder bootcamps). He's mistakenly keying off the (practically generic) term in common between them - "camp".
The line seems to be drawn (correctly IMO) somewhere in between offering intangible experiences and purporting to offer tangible financial benefits. There's always going to be some that have to be examined on a case-by-case basis (like survival schools that purport to offer real life skills), but the line is there regardless.
Educational scams have been around a very long time, which is why the line and a government bureau to enforce it exists.
To be clear, no you didn't write any such thing. You didn't write anything even close to such a thing.
Your mistake isn't that you didn't add "respectively", it's that you're a clueless moron who not only didn't read what he wrote, but for 'reporting them to Yahoo' and believing Yahoo! could do anything about such third parties.
And frankly, that's as it should be. If you lucked into an especially desirable account name, it's not Yahoo!'s responsibility to keep people who want to buy it away from you. And reporting people who have a variant? Seriously? Unless it's a trademark or copyright issue, you have precisely zero leg to stand on. Yahoo! isn't responsible for your sense of self entitlement.
Meanwhile, I've had a Yahoo! account for decades now with no problems at all.
And not only do you have to serve out your term - you're pretty much always stuck in your job field, as there's very little lateral mobility. Once you come out of school, you're pretty much pipelined for your entire career. If you're a widget tech you might be able to swap from Widget MK88/2 to Widget MK98/0, but it's difficult-to-impossible to become a twiddler operator... so if the widget pipeline is stopped up, you're screwed unless the twiddler pipeline is *very* desperate for bodies.
That's the problem I faced in my career... we were a tiny specialty (800 odd people) that were very expensive to create (because of a lengthy training pipeline and the high security clearances required), so even when the pipeline was overmanned the Navy forbid us to swap rates. I couldn't even get out and come back as something else, I'd have had to swap services. (Something I had no interest in doing - the other services don't have submarines.)
Yet somehow the SSBN force manages to avoid this crap... Time to relieve the USAF of this duty.