Seriously? If it's your job to roll out and support a bunch of Gnome desktops and you don't know how to set up and lock down a Gnome desktop, you are in the wrong business.
Sorry I didn't catch this reply til just now. I don't have time to read the link, maybe I'll check it out on my lunch. But...
Secondly, Nvidia wouldn't have to free their driver (which they don't want to do, for various reasons such as keeping their business going) if Linux had such a stable ABI... You can't make it as hard as possible for companies to write a driver that doesn't require constant updates and maintenance based on the whims of the kernel devs and then also want high performance drivers and games and such ported over. It doesn't work that way.
That would hold water if nVidia were not by now the single, sole, and only company out there making video hardware with closed drivers. ATI's opened their drivers, they seem not to have gone out of business yet. Shit, even Intel has GPU acceleration these days. Which leaves me with two conclusions:
1. If whoever is making these decisions at nVidia thinks that keeping their drivers a secret is a good business decision, they're gonna get left behind. It's pretty obvious that free drivers are not just the future, they are the present, everywhere but nVidia.
2. If "keeping their business going" depends on them hiding their driver code inside a binary blob, them's just tough rocks and I hope they go bankrupt. If they want to sell me stuff they're gonna have to start selling stuff I want to buy.
grown up people also appreciate efficient working, getting things simply done in as simple manner as possible.
You are silly. There is nothing efficient about a system that requires the additional overhead of antivirus protection. Nothing. Ever. Game over.
Just check how well Ubuntus clipboard works between FFOX, Putty, Terminal, GEdit, Openoffice
Are you kidding me? The Windows clipboard is dodgy as hell even between different sessions of Office! And god forbid you're trying to run anything else! Don't come talk to me about clipboard management.
the new usability shortcuts in W7... are a direct ripoff of KDE. We have had this stuff for literally years.
I bloody hate Virtual Desktops. Why do they even exist? I'm serious... I don't get it. What's their advantage?
Two responses to that.
1. Have you ever had more than >5 windows open while working on >1 project? 2. You are the only person I have ever heard say that ever. Virtual desktops are always the #1 "oooh" feature every time I've ever shown someone a free desktop.
Is that why every new NVidia driver has to be recompiled with a stupid shim to fit your running kernel because the Linux devs can't/won't sort out a stable binary ABI for kernel modules?
No. The reason for that is that nVidia won't just free their fucking video driver. That horseshit doesn't happen with Intel drivers. I misstated my original statement, because I should have specified that I was talking about open drivers (which I thought was self-evident given the context, but I'll own up to my omission). But I stand by it. Once a free driver's in the kernel, it's there forever. See also: http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/stable_api_nonsense.txt
A lot of Linux users are exactly the same with anything closed source; *they* don't want closed source software and drivers because *they* feel it's unacceptable for people to use them and that it will have a negative effect on Linux because it goes against what they believe in.
Damn right I don't. It is unacceptable. Not because "it goes against what I believe in," (well yeah, that too) but because "it doesn't fucking work."
Drivers: Look at the rampant clusterfuck every time Microsoft changes the driver model for Windows. Stuff takes ages to get new drivers, some stuff just stops working because the company isn't around anymore or doesn't support it anymore or whatever. That could never happen on GNU/Linux. Once a driver's been released, it's good forever.
Software: Listen, I'm sure the idea of "if I bought something I should actually own it and see how it works and be able to change it and do other things with it if I want to" is just entirely too radical for you to deal with, but some of us give a shit.
It never occurs to them that *other* people might be quite happy to use closed source software & drivers
No, I just don't care. Keep using your broken shit if you're happy with it, but don't try to bring it over here. I don't want none.
and just see it as their duty to protect all us witless heathens from ourselves
If it weren't for these fools living in the Red States, war wouldn't be considered acceptable. Most people in the civilized Blue States would not stand for money being wasted like that.
Your elitism is showing. Where is the government/defense/industry complex largely based? The eastern seaboard. Mostly (although not entirely) blue states. Whose districts get the contracts? Whose districts get the jobs? Where does the money go? Blue states. Where are the investment banks who make gross profits at lending money to keep the war machine churning? New England and New York.
For bonus points, who controls the congress right now? Who's in the White House? Who keeps proposing, passing, and signing these spending bills? Whose feet is this at? The fucking Democrats. Why aren't we out of Iraq? Why aren't we out of Afghanistan? The fucking Democrats. Whose voices do you find conspicuously absent in the popular cry against the continuation of these wars? The fucking Democrats.
So, Mr. Civilized Blue Stater, am I saying that this is your fault? You bet your ass I am, you fucking hypocrite.
Re:Oh come on, I have to put in a subject?
on
KDE 4.5 Released
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· Score: 1
You're full of shit. I have never had a Plasma notification steal focus. I don't even think you can "focus" on a Plasma widget (unless you're in dashboard view, I guess, but that's kind of the point of it).
The color scheme doesn't follow any theme settings
Yep, ditto. In the 6+ years I've been 100% GNU/Linux on all my machines, I've never had a problem with sound. Never ever ever. Actually, on my laptop, the sound is noticeably better with GNU/Linux. Multiple applications, multiple audio sources, mixer, everything not only Just Works (tm), it works beautifully.
Wow, the same 3 year old article and 1 year old article that someone posts every time anything vaguely related to Linux audio comes up. How very +5 Informative of you.
If that was something new from Microsoft (they've been doing it for years) and this was all it did (as opposed to, say, being able to turn off your machine if it doesn't like the cut of your jib), that would be one conversation. But here and now, that's plainly not a conversation connected in any way to reality.
They're not just your tax dollars. They're everyone's. That's the idea. Spending them on something that could potentially save the human race seems like a fairly good investment of our tax dollars.
This doesn't just go for GNOME; the best discussion of kernel and firefox bugs usually ends up being hosted on Ubuntu, just because they have fostered the largest community of enthusiastic Linux desktop users.
And that's a huge problem, because it tends to stay there. It's awfully hard to make the argument that it's helpful to upstream to explicitly tell your users "Use our bugtracker," and then fail to kick that upstream. Launchpad's an echo chamber.
Canonical provides a lot of things of value to GNOME and the free software community in general. The (recently established) Canonical Design Team produces research [canonical.com] on software usability, the value of which is not easily quantifiable. Many pieces of GNOME software live on Launchpad and are not strictly part of GNOME upstream (Simple Scan, for instance). This might change if (or when) these modules are accepted in GNOME proper.
The point flew right by you there and you completely missed it. Why is all this stuff living on Launchpad? Why does Canonical put walls around their garden? Why have they effectively forked the Gnome design process rather than working with the people who are actually a part of the community?
But even if that isn't the case the one thing that Ubuntu does much much better than anyone else is provide a huge collection of useful easy to read documentation that can be applied to most any Linux distro......it needs people doing other things some of which Canonical are doing.
Except that Canonical's not doing that. The Ubuntu community is, and that's a totally different group of people. You're right that it's great work, and work that all of the free software community benefits from. But it's not work that Canonical's footing the bill for.
Which is doubly bad. First, Canonical tends to wrap themselves in that flag whenever they're faced with criticism, which is disingenuous in the extreme. Second, it steals the well-earned credit from the great people who really are putting in the hours to do that work.
I've read this entire thread, and I largely agree with the criticisms of Ubuntu that you've laid out. But this particular post I have to give -1 Hyperbole.
Open source folks have to get used to the idea not everything in a popular OS / distribution needs to be open
Like hell. I will not get used to it, not will I quietly acquiesce and spread my legs for proprietary software. I came to free software to get away from that shit.
The use of software is not really idealogical struggle
How much of your time do you spend connected to some manner of computer during your day? Four hours? Eight? More? Half your life? More?
If you're not free for half your life, you're not free. Maybe you don't care about that. I do.
And you misspelled ideological.
personally I wish people would really stop framing it in that fashion.
I don't care.
At the end of the day some people would / will want to be paid for their effort for creating software for your use
A goddamn lot of people get paid for working on free software. I get paid for working on free software.
Other people believe that everything should open and free for everyone which very awesome, but looking at the material history of the world has never really occurred as everything created has some intrinsic value.
We've never had a magic machine where you could put a loaf of bread into it and make an infinite number of loaves of bread. If we did, would you not say it was inexcusably criminal to withhold loaves of bread from anyone, for any reason?
Well, that's what free software is. Free software is the infinite loaf of bread machine.
Sure there will be some good hearted souls out there that will give stuff away, but you shouldn't really rely on that if you want better software variety and wide adoption
*checks business card* Yup, I still make money working on free software. Do you seriously not get the difference between free beer and free speech? Lots of entities make money selling free speech. Newspapers, for one.
They're too late to join the game. The problem is that Facebook already has everyone you know, so everyone joins it because everyone else already is there.
The exact same thing was said... about Facebook... when Myspace ruled the earth.
Shit, I can remember back at the dawn of time, when a friend of mine told me it was stupid to get my internet through my phone company because "Everything's on AOL anyway."
The half lives of internet phenomena are extremely low. Facebook's no different.
Do I care that I can find some music at ~/Documents/Music/Artist/Album/trackname.ogg
I definitely do. It means when I put it on my mp3 player, I just throw it into the Music folder and everything's already in order and I don't have to hunt around for anything. I have a hell of a lot of music on my machine. If it's not in sensible order it's lost forever.
would I rather just be able to "Play all songs in album Foo by artist Bar"?
That works great as long as all your metadata is in order. Which, especially once you amass any sort of large media collection, eventually it's not.
What's easier? Searching through your Artist list through "Guns and Roses," "Guns n Roses," "Guns 'n' Roses," and "GnR" for the song you want, or going to "~/Music/Guns n Roses"?
Paradoxically, the more data I amass, the more important manual sorting and a sensible directory structure become. I eagerly await the day that that isn't necessary, but that day hasn't come.
I really like where the KDE team is going with Nepomuk, and I do try to use it just for the sake of banging on it, but practically speaking, as long as I have to manually tag files, honestly, I may as well just be using that time to sort the files out myself.
Slashdot Mirror
Seriously? If it's your job to roll out and support a bunch of Gnome desktops and you don't know how to set up and lock down a Gnome desktop, you are in the wrong business.
Why, is your keyboard broken? They're cheap, y'know. Probably go to goodwill and get one for like two bucks.
Hey, how'd you type this post?
Sorry I didn't catch this reply til just now. I don't have time to read the link, maybe I'll check it out on my lunch. But...
Secondly, Nvidia wouldn't have to free their driver (which they don't want to do, for various reasons such as keeping their business going) if Linux had such a stable ABI... You can't make it as hard as possible for companies to write a driver that doesn't require constant updates and maintenance based on the whims of the kernel devs and then also want high performance drivers and games and such ported over. It doesn't work that way.
That would hold water if nVidia were not by now the single, sole, and only company out there making video hardware with closed drivers. ATI's opened their drivers, they seem not to have gone out of business yet. Shit, even Intel has GPU acceleration these days. Which leaves me with two conclusions:
1. If whoever is making these decisions at nVidia thinks that keeping their drivers a secret is a good business decision, they're gonna get left behind. It's pretty obvious that free drivers are not just the future, they are the present, everywhere but nVidia.
2. If "keeping their business going" depends on them hiding their driver code inside a binary blob, them's just tough rocks and I hope they go bankrupt. If they want to sell me stuff they're gonna have to start selling stuff I want to buy.
grown up people also appreciate efficient working, getting things simply done in as simple manner as possible.
You are silly. There is nothing efficient about a system that requires the additional overhead of antivirus protection. Nothing. Ever. Game over.
Just check how well Ubuntus clipboard works between FFOX, Putty, Terminal, GEdit, Openoffice
Are you kidding me? The Windows clipboard is dodgy as hell even between different sessions of Office! And god forbid you're trying to run anything else! Don't come talk to me about clipboard management.
the new usability shortcuts in W7... are a direct ripoff of KDE. We have had this stuff for literally years.
I bloody hate Virtual Desktops. Why do they even exist? I'm serious... I don't get it. What's their advantage?
Two responses to that.
1. Have you ever had more than >5 windows open while working on >1 project?
2. You are the only person I have ever heard say that ever. Virtual desktops are always the #1 "oooh" feature every time I've ever shown someone a free desktop.
Is that why every new NVidia driver has to be recompiled with a stupid shim to fit your running kernel because the Linux devs can't/won't sort out a stable binary ABI for kernel modules?
No. The reason for that is that nVidia won't just free their fucking video driver. That horseshit doesn't happen with Intel drivers. I misstated my original statement, because I should have specified that I was talking about open drivers (which I thought was self-evident given the context, but I'll own up to my omission). But I stand by it. Once a free driver's in the kernel, it's there forever. See also: http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/stable_api_nonsense.txt
A lot of Linux users are exactly the same with anything closed source; *they* don't want closed source software and drivers because *they* feel it's unacceptable for people to use them and that it will have a negative effect on Linux because it goes against what they believe in.
Damn right I don't. It is unacceptable. Not because "it goes against what I believe in," (well yeah, that too) but because "it doesn't fucking work."
Drivers: Look at the rampant clusterfuck every time Microsoft changes the driver model for Windows. Stuff takes ages to get new drivers, some stuff just stops working because the company isn't around anymore or doesn't support it anymore or whatever. That could never happen on GNU/Linux. Once a driver's been released, it's good forever.
Software: Listen, I'm sure the idea of "if I bought something I should actually own it and see how it works and be able to change it and do other things with it if I want to" is just entirely too radical for you to deal with, but some of us give a shit.
It never occurs to them that *other* people might be quite happy to use closed source software & drivers
No, I just don't care. Keep using your broken shit if you're happy with it, but don't try to bring it over here. I don't want none.
and just see it as their duty to protect all us witless heathens from ourselves
Obvious troll is obvious.
What? No it doesn't. I want a free gun.
If it weren't for these fools living in the Red States, war wouldn't be considered acceptable. Most people in the civilized Blue States would not stand for money being wasted like that.
Your elitism is showing. Where is the government/defense/industry complex largely based? The eastern seaboard. Mostly (although not entirely) blue states. Whose districts get the contracts? Whose districts get the jobs? Where does the money go? Blue states. Where are the investment banks who make gross profits at lending money to keep the war machine churning? New England and New York.
For bonus points, who controls the congress right now? Who's in the White House? Who keeps proposing, passing, and signing these spending bills? Whose feet is this at? The fucking Democrats. Why aren't we out of Iraq? Why aren't we out of Afghanistan? The fucking Democrats. Whose voices do you find conspicuously absent in the popular cry against the continuation of these wars? The fucking Democrats.
So, Mr. Civilized Blue Stater, am I saying that this is your fault? You bet your ass I am, you fucking hypocrite.
-1 Shut Up Douchebag
stealing focus every time
You're full of shit. I have never had a Plasma notification steal focus. I don't even think you can "focus" on a Plasma widget (unless you're in dashboard view, I guess, but that's kind of the point of it).
The color scheme doesn't follow any theme settings
You're full of shit. I'm looking at it right now.
Lame troll is lame.
Oh yeah? What have they "broken" this time? Inquiring minds want to know.
Yep, ditto. In the 6+ years I've been 100% GNU/Linux on all my machines, I've never had a problem with sound. Never ever ever. Actually, on my laptop, the sound is noticeably better with GNU/Linux. Multiple applications, multiple audio sources, mixer, everything not only Just Works (tm), it works beautifully.
Wow, the same 3 year old article and 1 year old article that someone posts every time anything vaguely related to Linux audio comes up. How very +5 Informative of you.
If that was something new from Microsoft (they've been doing it for years) and this was all it did (as opposed to, say, being able to turn off your machine if it doesn't like the cut of your jib), that would be one conversation. But here and now, that's plainly not a conversation connected in any way to reality.
Says the guy pushing Apple in his sig.
They're not just your tax dollars. They're everyone's. That's the idea. Spending them on something that could potentially save the human race seems like a fairly good investment of our tax dollars.
This doesn't just go for GNOME; the best discussion of kernel and firefox bugs usually ends up being hosted on Ubuntu, just because they have fostered the largest community of enthusiastic Linux desktop users.
And that's a huge problem, because it tends to stay there. It's awfully hard to make the argument that it's helpful to upstream to explicitly tell your users "Use our bugtracker," and then fail to kick that upstream. Launchpad's an echo chamber.
Canonical provides a lot of things of value to GNOME and the free software community in general. The (recently established) Canonical Design Team produces research [canonical.com] on software usability, the value of which is not easily quantifiable. Many pieces of GNOME software live on Launchpad and are not strictly part of GNOME upstream (Simple Scan, for instance). This might change if (or when) these modules are accepted in GNOME proper.
The point flew right by you there and you completely missed it. Why is all this stuff living on Launchpad? Why does Canonical put walls around their garden? Why have they effectively forked the Gnome design process rather than working with the people who are actually a part of the community?
But even if that isn't the case the one thing that Ubuntu does much much better than anyone else is provide a huge collection of useful easy to read documentation that can be applied to most any Linux distro... ...it needs people doing other things some of which Canonical are doing.
Except that Canonical's not doing that. The Ubuntu community is, and that's a totally different group of people. You're right that it's great work, and work that all of the free software community benefits from. But it's not work that Canonical's footing the bill for.
Which is doubly bad. First, Canonical tends to wrap themselves in that flag whenever they're faced with criticism, which is disingenuous in the extreme. Second, it steals the well-earned credit from the great people who really are putting in the hours to do that work.
I've read this entire thread, and I largely agree with the criticisms of Ubuntu that you've laid out. But this particular post I have to give -1 Hyperbole.
Open source folks have to get used to the idea not everything in a popular OS / distribution needs to be open
Like hell. I will not get used to it, not will I quietly acquiesce and spread my legs for proprietary software. I came to free software to get away from that shit.
The use of software is not really idealogical struggle
How much of your time do you spend connected to some manner of computer during your day? Four hours? Eight? More? Half your life? More?
If you're not free for half your life, you're not free. Maybe you don't care about that. I do.
And you misspelled ideological.
personally I wish people would really stop framing it in that fashion.
I don't care.
At the end of the day some people would / will want to be paid for their effort for creating software for your use
A goddamn lot of people get paid for working on free software. I get paid for working on free software.
Other people believe that everything should open and free for everyone which very awesome, but looking at the material history of the world has never really occurred as everything created has some intrinsic value.
We've never had a magic machine where you could put a loaf of bread into it and make an infinite number of loaves of bread. If we did, would you not say it was inexcusably criminal to withhold loaves of bread from anyone, for any reason?
Well, that's what free software is. Free software is the infinite loaf of bread machine.
Sure there will be some good hearted souls out there that will give stuff away, but you shouldn't really rely on that if you want better software variety and wide adoption
*checks business card* Yup, I still make money working on free software. Do you seriously not get the difference between free beer and free speech? Lots of entities make money selling free speech. Newspapers, for one.
You're retarded.
They're too late to join the game. The problem is that Facebook already has everyone you know, so everyone joins it because everyone else already is there.
The exact same thing was said... about Facebook... when Myspace ruled the earth.
Shit, I can remember back at the dawn of time, when a friend of mine told me it was stupid to get my internet through my phone company because "Everything's on AOL anyway."
The half lives of internet phenomena are extremely low. Facebook's no different.
Do I care that I can find some music at ~/Documents/Music/Artist/Album/trackname.ogg
I definitely do. It means when I put it on my mp3 player, I just throw it into the Music folder and everything's already in order and I don't have to hunt around for anything. I have a hell of a lot of music on my machine. If it's not in sensible order it's lost forever.
would I rather just be able to "Play all songs in album Foo by artist Bar"?
That works great as long as all your metadata is in order. Which, especially once you amass any sort of large media collection, eventually it's not.
What's easier? Searching through your Artist list through "Guns and Roses," "Guns n Roses," "Guns 'n' Roses," and "GnR" for the song you want, or going to "~/Music/Guns n Roses"?
Paradoxically, the more data I amass, the more important manual sorting and a sensible directory structure become. I eagerly await the day that that isn't necessary, but that day hasn't come.
I really like where the KDE team is going with Nepomuk, and I do try to use it just for the sake of banging on it, but practically speaking, as long as I have to manually tag files, honestly, I may as well just be using that time to sort the files out myself.