most people on slashdot aren't interested in hearing things that conflict with their worldview, but your comment showed openness.
FWIW, here's what they teach in business school: the best definition of marketing is "meeting customer needs". This runs from research to determine what customers need, to designing products that have the features necessary to fill those needs at a price that the customers can afford, to getting information to the customer about the product and getting the product distributed, through to servicing the product and listening to customer feedback, to do it all over again.
From this perspective, marketing runs every successful company, and every person in the organization including engineers should think of themselves as a cog in the marketing engine. What is your role, what can you do, today, to help meet customer needs tomorrow? Generally, the answer is "listen". Practice that, and you will go far in your marketing organization.
I'm relating this so you can understand how a suit and a "marketing geek" thinks, without any interest in hearing flames from people who think they are not involved in marketing.
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did you read the papers about the motivation behind Hungarian?
Hungarian Notation is good for rendering source code into obsfucating noise.
false. Hungarian names have more semantics than non Hungarian. They are pronounceable, and they have internal structure and high-level abstract type information. They solve several problems that non-Hungarian names have, and all the problems you mention. You'd need to reference the actual arguments to make a meaningful case against the notation. The C language itself is just as obscure to someone who doesn't know it, but it has a syntax that is learnable and readable to someone who konws it. Hungarian Notation is a language just the same.
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The people behind it are Oak Ridge National Labs and
the National Center for Supercomputing Applications and... their 'Supercomputer on a CD' software is supposed to make it so
easy to put a Beowulf cluster together a high school student or MCSE can do it in a few hours.
Keep up the good work, you guys, and next release I expect will allow the average Slashdotter to install.
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Lame.
He's simply asking where to look at examples of different kinds of good.
"Good art" can be found in museums. That doesn't mean it's all the same or obeys one definition, but it's still generally agreed to be good and is at least as instructive to look at as a discussion of the definition of good art. ----
If you really want to study and learn, you should definately soak in Charles Simonyi's "Hungarian Notation" for a few days, a part of his PhD thesis. To get you in the right frame of mind
Dr. Simonyi's idea was to think of good programming to be a test where two programmers are given the same task and then separated from each other. They "pass" if they produce identical code, and they "fail" if they don't. This is a good test because if different programmers can follow rules to produce the same code, their code will be easy to borrow, read, maintain, etc.
Cool, right? Note it's the exact opposite of perl's TMTOWTDI, or "there's more than one way to do it."
You can read a version at Microsoft but if you, like me, don't even like going there then there are other copies on the web.
There's one at apostate that has some additional addenda that might be interesting (I didn't look too closely) and one here that has some rather mindless criticism sprinkled in. Here's a plain text version.
A variant of this naming convention that most people have heard of was also adopted by Microsoft for use with Windows. The version Windows uses is a steaming pile of shit and is a complete perversion of the original idea, so don't base your opinion of Hungarian on Windows or on criticisms from people who only know that version. If you have the good sense to despise Windows's Hungarian because it is the opposite of abstract, you'll love the real thing. It can be hard to get used to Hungarian, but I don't know anybody who has gotten used to it who was able to stop using it.
BTW, he also worked at Xerox PARC where he more or less "invented" WYSIWYG word processing, before he succumbed to the evil empire and became charless@microsoft.com, father of Microsoft Word. ----
hey, there was an ascii video clip on the old DECUS tapes. It was a text file called JACK.OFF and if you just PIP'ed it to an ANSI terminal at 2400 baud this little figure would shake it pretty good and eventually "pip" on your screen.
anybody know where to find this? I have not been able to construct a search that doesn't find a lot of stuff I'm not looking for.
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Oh, no, it's you who've convinced me! I just sent a check to the EFF: if filter failure kills people they must be stopped. What I thought you said was that they fail to block porn.
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Slashdot Mirror
most people on slashdot aren't interested in hearing things that conflict with their worldview, but your comment showed openness.
FWIW, here's what they teach in business school: the best definition of marketing is "meeting customer needs". This runs from research to determine what customers need, to designing products that have the features necessary to fill those needs at a price that the customers can afford, to getting information to the customer about the product and getting the product distributed, through to servicing the product and listening to customer feedback, to do it all over again.
From this perspective, marketing runs every successful company, and every person in the organization including engineers should think of themselves as a cog in the marketing engine. What is your role, what can you do, today, to help meet customer needs tomorrow? Generally, the answer is "listen". Practice that, and you will go far in your marketing organization.
I'm relating this so you can understand how a suit and a "marketing geek" thinks, without any interest in hearing flames from people who think they are not involved in marketing.
----
Hungarian Notation is good for rendering source code into obsfucating noise.
false. Hungarian names have more semantics than non Hungarian. They are pronounceable, and they have internal structure and high-level abstract type information. They solve several problems that non-Hungarian names have, and all the problems you mention. You'd need to reference the actual arguments to make a meaningful case against the notation. The C language itself is just as obscure to someone who doesn't know it, but it has a syntax that is learnable and readable to someone who konws it. Hungarian Notation is a language just the same.
----
The people behind it are Oak Ridge National Labs and the National Center for Supercomputing Applications and ... their 'Supercomputer on a CD' software is supposed to make it so
easy to put a Beowulf cluster together a high school student or MCSE can do it in a few hours.
Keep up the good work, you guys, and next release I expect will allow the average Slashdotter to install.
----
"Good art" can be found in museums. That doesn't mean it's all the same or obeys one definition, but it's still generally agreed to be good and is at least as instructive to look at as a discussion of the definition of good art.
----
You can read a version at Microsoft but if you, like me, don't even like going there then there are other copies on the web. There's one at apostate that has some additional addenda that might be interesting (I didn't look too closely) and one here that has some rather mindless criticism sprinkled in. Here's a plain text version.
A variant of this naming convention that most people have heard of was also adopted by Microsoft for use with Windows. The version Windows uses is a steaming pile of shit and is a complete perversion of the original idea, so don't base your opinion of Hungarian on Windows or on criticisms from people who only know that version. If you have the good sense to despise Windows's Hungarian because it is the opposite of abstract, you'll love the real thing. It can be hard to get used to Hungarian, but I don't know anybody who has gotten used to it who was able to stop using it.
BTW, he also worked at Xerox PARC where he more or less "invented" WYSIWYG word processing, before he succumbed to the evil empire and became charless@microsoft.com, father of Microsoft Word.
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anybody know where to find this? I have not been able to construct a search that doesn't find a lot of stuff I'm not looking for.
----
Oh, no, it's you who've convinced me! I just sent a check to the EFF: if filter failure kills people they must be stopped. What I thought you said was that they fail to block porn.
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the flaw in your reasoning is, if you believe they work so poorly why do you get so worked up about them?
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