I know a lot of people can get really good and stable job without going to college especially in this field. But it's not because of just getting a piece of paper that's all college's about. I tend to think of it as a way to meet other people and learn from some of the most intelligent people I've met.
I'll admit, different colleges give you experiences and I'm lucky enough to be in one where it's small enough but really challenging.
Before college, I would never consider myself a geek. I never had the opportunity to let out my inner "geek" child. It was in college where I was given the opportunity to see what I wanted to do and found computers really cool than just checking email.
Now, I take CS courses that are literally creaming me with knowledge that I would probably never end up using in the real world because a lot of them tend to be math/theory oriented. Not only that, but these coures are devasting my gpa that was once decent. But regardless, there are no regrets. I am finally learning to think with greater logic and greater capacity to analyze and which I feel is probably a more worthwhile gain from these four years and not just a piece of paper.
Six days at a beach house sounds like an awesome idea. I luv the beach.
I'd also dislike being watched though:P Was never a fan of the Real World (they all seemed so fake sometimes) and well...if you have to manage a website, it'll get pretty dull fast I'd imagine, with guys or girls:)
"Hey, let's add some javascript to spice it up!" "Cool!"
I am glad this subject came up. I still remember the time I installed Slackware and the agonzing sleepless nights looking frantically through the HOWTO's and manuals. Actually, other than the actual installation, the configuration was what drove me crazy. But when it worked, I think there are as few moments in life with that sense of satisfaction.
And do I recommend this experience for everyone? Never.
It's true most of the things, I had to read and read and read because I'm the type of person who can't go on without satisfying my curiosity. That means a lot of time on reading documentations and what not. As a student, this is forgivable. If your job is a sysadmin, this is admirable. But if you're anyone else whose life uses minimal amount of computing and has a busy schedule, you really shouldn't get it.
Let's face it, I would love to take my parent's Windows PC and put Linux on with a nice GUI and show them that it's not the scary, only for the techie, operating system (yes I run X, and I like it dang it, but that's another story), but I resist the temptation because 1) they really don't have a need for it 2) If they don't have the time to learn (and they really don't have the time) I'm just setting them up for more problems down the line ("honey I just typed rm -rf...what just happend?" dear lord!).
There are some things about what he said that I have to disagree on, but I understand where this guy's hostility comes from. I'd help the "willing to become antisocial documentation worm to get this frickin thing to work AND have the time to do it" newbie, but other than that, I'd suggest them from staying away.
The veterans should understand that often times, it's not laziness or cluelessness that drives a person to simply ask, but lack of time in their lives. And I think the media is not helping out by making it seem like a breeze. Maybe the distrib's can put a warning sign, something like "Requirement: lot of reading. Caution: This product may cause extreme frustration and sleepless nights. Install with your discretion!!" :P
I freely admit I was not one of the born *nix user and at the beginning had no clue to what I was doing. When the first OS you ever touched was a GUI-point and click stuff (a mac in my case), the concept of running anything with simple text as the console can be pretty bad. Yeah you had your piles and piles of documentation, but it's not the same as the graphical wizard walking through everything.
I had vaguely heard that *nix users were: 1) proud of their OS and normally chalk full of information 2) enthusiastic about sharing the OS
which I completely agree.
But the unmentioned aspect was how tightly knit the community was and how many a times, too impatient to often guide new users to the right stpes. Often times, my questions (though naive they were) were rejected and scoffed at. And at the end, all I could do was sit in my room, bitterly stay up very late and read *a lot* of documentation and experimenting before I grasped anything. In the end, I have to say, it really was *my* time and effort that led me to learn this OS.
In a sense, I can understand where the arrogance of many linux people come from. A lot them had to take time and learn the stuff before they could even use it properly. Simply stated, they sort of "passed" the diligence test and this is like a little reward. Now I rarely use Windows except on very rare occasions. But my expectations of getting help from elsewhere very much diminished though now I get better answers from other simply because now I already know how to run it.
But thinking back to all the late nite hours, agonizing over why the console was printing these gibberish, only to find out later that it was an easy problem to fix for an experienced user, I do feel sympathy for new users and as often as I can, I try to help out as much as I can. Maybe that is the other aspect the community can work on, having a little sympathy. The community can be as arrogant as they want because everyone's worked hard to achieve what we have so far, but linux is getting pretty mainstreamed now and less closed off, which means there will be a lot more new users and the overt arrogance and condescensance may give the wrong impression of people about linux, that it's just a closed off territory for ultra-techies and if you aren't born with it, tough.
It's out of the question that linux will ever become as user-friendly as windows in the near future (seriously, linux as having wizards and point-and click between "custom" and "normal", I cannot imagine) so the community needs to be more accepting and less hostile.
Far too many times, I see unmoderated boards turn into a chaotic mess of flames, personal insults and overly blatant digression of topics (i.e. advertising smack in the middle of discussion of hardware specs).
When I look for message boards, I always check for moderation because I just don't have the time to rummage through the junk myself. I've even stopped looking at some newsgroups because they were just too unbearable and time consuming to read.
Congrats at good moderation. I think it's beginning to work because some of these messages are really informative and thought-provoking.
Slashdot Mirror
I know a lot of people can get really good and stable job without going to college especially in this field. But it's not because of just getting a piece of paper that's all college's about. I tend to think of it as a way to meet other people and learn from some of the most intelligent people I've met.
I'll admit, different colleges give you experiences and I'm lucky enough to be in one where it's small enough but really challenging.
Before college, I would never consider myself a geek. I never had the opportunity to let out my inner "geek" child. It was in college where I was given the opportunity to see what I wanted to do and found computers really cool than just checking email.
Now, I take CS courses that are literally creaming me with knowledge that I would probably never end up using in the real world because a lot of them tend to be math/theory oriented. Not only that, but these coures are devasting my gpa that was once decent. But regardless, there are no regrets. I am finally learning to think with greater logic and greater capacity to analyze and which I feel is probably a more worthwhile gain from these four years and not just a piece of paper.
Just my two pence.
-KitKat-
Six days at a beach house sounds like an awesome idea. I luv the beach.
:P :)
I'd also dislike being watched though
Was never a fan of the Real World (they all seemed so fake sometimes) and well...if you have to manage a website, it'll get pretty dull fast I'd imagine, with guys or girls
"Hey, let's add some javascript to spice it up!"
"Cool!"
KitKat
I am glad this subject came up. I still remember the time I installed Slackware and the agonzing sleepless nights looking frantically through the HOWTO's and manuals. Actually, other than the actual installation, the configuration was what drove me crazy. But when it worked, I think there are as few moments in life with that sense of satisfaction.
And do I recommend this experience for everyone? Never.
It's true most of the things, I had to read and read and read because I'm the type of person who can't go on without satisfying my curiosity. That means a lot of time on reading documentations and what not. As a student, this is forgivable. If your job is a sysadmin, this is admirable. But if you're anyone else whose life uses minimal amount of computing and has a busy schedule, you really shouldn't get it.
Let's face it, I would love to take my parent's Windows PC and put Linux on with a nice GUI and show them that it's not the scary, only for the techie, operating system (yes I run X, and I like it dang it, but that's another story), but I resist the temptation because 1) they really don't have a need for it 2) If they don't have the time to learn (and they really don't have the time) I'm just setting them up for more problems down the line ("honey I just typed rm -rf...what just happend?" dear lord!).
There are some things about what he said that I have to disagree on, but I understand where this guy's hostility comes from. I'd help the "willing to become antisocial documentation worm to get this frickin thing to work AND have the time to do it" newbie, but other than that, I'd suggest them from staying away.
The veterans should understand that often times, it's not laziness or cluelessness that drives a person to simply ask, but lack of time in their lives. And I think the media is not helping out by making it seem like a breeze. Maybe the distrib's can put a warning sign, something like "Requirement: lot of reading. Caution: This product may cause extreme frustration and sleepless nights. Install with your discretion!!"
:P
~KitKat~
I agree and I'd add my $.02
I freely admit I was not one of the born *nix user and at the beginning had no clue to what I was doing. When the first OS you ever touched was a GUI-point and click stuff (a mac in my case), the concept of running anything with simple text as the console can be pretty bad. Yeah you had your piles and piles of documentation, but it's not the same as the graphical wizard walking through everything.
I had vaguely heard that *nix users were:
1) proud of their OS and normally chalk full of information
2) enthusiastic about sharing the OS
which I completely agree.
But the unmentioned aspect was how tightly knit the community was and how many a times, too impatient to often guide new users to the right stpes. Often times, my questions (though naive they were) were rejected and scoffed at. And at the end, all I could do was sit in my room, bitterly stay up very late and read *a lot* of documentation and experimenting before I grasped anything. In the end, I have to say, it really was *my* time and effort that led me to learn this OS.
In a sense, I can understand where the arrogance of many linux people come from. A lot them had to take time and learn the stuff before they could even use it properly. Simply stated, they sort of "passed" the diligence test and this is like a little reward. Now I rarely use Windows except on very rare occasions. But my expectations of getting help from elsewhere very much diminished though now I get better answers from other simply because now I already know how to run it.
But thinking back to all the late nite hours, agonizing over why the console was printing these gibberish, only to find out later that it was an easy problem to fix for an experienced user, I do feel sympathy for new users and as often as I can, I try to help out as much as I can. Maybe that is the other aspect the community can work on, having a little sympathy. The community can be as arrogant as they want because everyone's worked hard to achieve what we have so far, but linux is getting pretty mainstreamed now and less closed off, which means there will be a lot more new users and the overt arrogance and condescensance may give the wrong impression of people about linux, that it's just a closed off territory for ultra-techies and if you aren't born with it, tough.
It's out of the question that linux will ever become as user-friendly as windows in the near future (seriously, linux as having wizards and point-and click between "custom" and "normal", I cannot imagine) so the community needs to be more accepting and less hostile.
Just sharing my pennies.
-Kat-
I definitely agree.
Far too many times, I see unmoderated boards turn into a chaotic mess of flames, personal insults and overly blatant digression of topics (i.e. advertising smack in the middle of discussion of hardware specs).
When I look for message boards, I always check for moderation because I just don't have the time to rummage through the junk myself. I've even stopped looking at some newsgroups because they were just too unbearable and time consuming to read.
Congrats at good moderation. I think it's beginning to work because some of these messages are really informative and thought-provoking.
-Kat-