I disagree with you. Historically this site is here supporting Linux & OSS & other interesting technical and scientific bits. Recently - in the last 12 months - this has been overrun with the paid trolls from M$. That is a problem. Moderation is an attempt to rid this site of those (futile) trolls. And I am willing to assist in that worthwhile task.
Sorry, but that's complete rubbish. Ever consider for a moment that there are MS advocates out there who are just as big on the whole zealotry thang as the Linux advocates?
I used to work for MS... paid FUD was never used while I was there. Sure, the word FUD was used all over the place, but in conjunction with tales of what other people were saying about Microsoft.
I don't know about not enjoying it if you're not sympathetic to the viewpoint; heck, I don't hold that viewpoint, but I still enjoyed his books. Basically, anything that lets you know more about something, or gives you a different perspective can't be bad; at the worst, all you do is read and discard. At best, you take away more info than you started with and your perspective is a little broader; you know the arguments you'll have to beat. Or, alternatively, it just might change your mind.
Knowledge is a good thing; suspend judgement until the end and then make your own decision. It might even change your mind; you never know.
Sorry, I have to use 3.02 at work, and it does NOT support png
In that case, its been supported since IE4.0. However, unfortunately, QuickTime takes over PNG support when you install it, which is a real pain in the ass.
Netscape 4.61, on a Windows 98 box, ploinks up the "Do you want to buy Quicktime now or keep on being pestered each day until the end of time" box, and displays a test PNG in the center of the window.
MS Internet Explorer just puts up in the center of the screen. Treats a PNG rather differently than a GIF or JPG file, anyway.
Sounds like QuickTime overrode the built-in IE handlers for PNG files... the way it does with midi files and a few other things that I wish it would keep its hands off!
Perfectly acceptable to a compiler if you don't need to return a value from main, simply because that that point you're usually returning to the OS, and in the runtime there will be a different mechanism used to pass out the return value... scary, but true:)
*drag statictext to project window* *click in 'value' section* *type 'Hello World'* *run* That's on a Mac, but there's no reason this style of application framework couldn't be used on Linux. All it takes is someone to code it and keep things clean and uncluttered. 'Hello world' is not hard in a proper GUI builder. It shouldn't require _any_ code.
Sounds like writing Visual Basic code... now the question is... what kind of code do you have to put together in C on the Mac to do the same thing? All a RAD tool does is hide the underlying architecture, which is good for somethings, but hopelessly useless when you want to break out of the sandbox it forces you to play inside of.
Note: I don't suggest starting out on this if you have no prior GUI programming experience.
Heck, I don't suggest starting out on this if you have no prior Localization experience; because if your stuff goes global, everyone who doesn't speak your language is screwed:)
Okay.. so I'm partly kidding... but don't forget that not everyone speaks/reads/writes in English...
Ideally, you want some way of specifying standard keys for any given operation, and then have the system always bind that key in any app which can perform that operation.
OK, that works. I wasn't thinking of doing that way. I was thinking of going through the full steps to create a window, set up the message pump, yada yada yada. All the steps you would normally go through for a normal Windows app, but then just output "Hello, world." Doing it the long way would take many, many more lines.
Alternatively, you could just do it as a windows console app:)
how long does it take you to write a hello world win gui code ? 70+ lines (look at any win programming book - thats the first win32 example). 70+ lines for a GUI and you think its compact ?? which planet are you from ?
Well... it takes me about 30 seconds actually... who cares how many lines it takes?
Why not let us know how many lines it takes for your GUI?
I find that the horrible messaging system in windows basically forces you to write a plug in for windows
However, it is highly scalable and highly customizable; you can do pretty much anything with it, because it can be expanded ad infinitum. You probably just don't like writing WNDPROCs:)
Remember folks, a crack like this would be illegal under UCITA because it purposefully circumvents a copy-prevention scheme. You must fight the implementation of UCITA in your state!
Why? So people like you can get a free ride because you don't believe in intellectual property/copyright? No thanks... I prefer to reward people for their efforts, not rip them off.
At the very least, they will have to release the architecture-specific mods they've done to the kernel - this is a radically different architecture from most out there, so this will probably be a fair bit.
But it won't USE the Linux kernel; there's no need for it to even *have* a kernel. In fact, for games you want as little between you and the hardware as possible. No need for multiple threads. No need for anything else a kernel gives you (such as memory management). Just pure, to-the-metal coding.
Linux is the Japanese dev system. Europe and the US will probably get either just a Visual Studio dev system, or one that runs on both Windows and Linux...
Erm... but what does this have to do with developing Playstation games? I can see where it'd be useful for rendering motion-JPEG sequences for inclusion on the DVD-ROM, but other than that??????
Since the OS for the development stations will be Linux, they will have to release the source for the port to this new hardware. Everything will be available to the Linux community. No doubt, there is no doubt going to be some VERY interesting code in there.
Why will they have to release the source? Sure, if they're using a modified GCC, they'll have to release the source that generates the compiled code, but that won't be much use; all the libs that talk to the hardware will probably be shipped as binaries.
Not that this helps much; game coders quickly learn to hack the hardware and get the most out of the system anyway.
The article didn't give much information though. Does anyone know why they chose to use a Linux based workstation instead of using BeOS, NT or FreeBSD? Wasn't FreeBSD used to render the special effects in the 'Titanic' movie?
According to a friend of mine who works for the Bitmap Brothers at the moment (and was lead Dev on Sentinel Returns), it's because Linux is (and has been all along the line) the preferred development platform for Japanese games developers.
However, he also said that it would probably move to Visual Studio for European/US programmers, as that's what happened with the first Playstation.
FreeBSD being used for Titanic has no relevance here; 3D Studio Max tends to be the tool of choice for 3D modellers, and most people run that on NT.
MS will make defeating this project -- with "enhancements" -- priority one.
Hmmm... interesting claim... but a pretty far out one. There's no way that MS can "defeat this project with enhancements" without screwing up backwards compatibility with existing apps -- which is a MAJOR thing at Microsoft. It's why Win32 is (as people repeatedly claim here) a mess -- they can't change things without breaking software that's out there that people use day in, day out.
So what if Wine will always be a couple of years behind? That's still 100's of 1000's of apps that will run on the emulator. That's a massive software base to run.
Simon [old APIs never die - they just end up in c:\windows\system32]
Re:News from the MS underground, Naw, just an X em
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Nah... never did:) (no need -- didn't work with anyone who worked there). Though I have heard that it's the most confusingly laid out building on campus; more so than Bldg. 43 (which was so symmetrical, that on more than one occasion, I ended up walking into someone else's office by mistake).
:)
Simon (who left MS and is about to start a senior dev position elsewhere, because he liked to work outside of the box, rather than being pigeonholed:))
I just took the Win2K ASP Subsystem Down :)
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I think I just managed to take down ASP on the box... it's no longer alive:) [guestbook times-out, everything else is up and running] (more details on the exploit when they bring it back up; if I can take it down again, I may be able to get full access to the files on the machine).
... of course, if it wasn't me, I've just made myself look incredibly stupid.
:)
Simon
Re:News from the MS underground, Naw, just an X em
on
CrackThisBox Updates
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· Score: 1
If you worked at Microsoft (which I did until recently), what was your 7 digit employee ID number? If you're not willing to give that out, which area code and exchange code was your phone number at MS (that's the first 6 digits)? What's the difference between building 6 and building 7 on the MS campus?
NT is not based on DOS either. You're talking crap.
It's just lame ass script kiddies trying to (misguidedly) look cool by sticking meta-refresh tags and javascript into the guestbook. Not a crack (it just messes with YOUR browser, not the server); just lame and inconvenient.
Slashdot Mirror
I disagree with you. Historically this site is here supporting Linux & OSS & other interesting technical and scientific bits. Recently - in the last 12 months - this has been overrun with the paid trolls from M$. That is a problem. Moderation is an attempt to rid this site of those (futile) trolls. And I am willing to assist in that worthwhile task.
Sorry, but that's complete rubbish. Ever consider for a moment that there are MS advocates out there who are just as big on the whole zealotry thang as the Linux advocates?
I used to work for MS... paid FUD was never used while I was there. Sure, the word FUD was used all over the place, but in conjunction with tales of what other people were saying about Microsoft.
Simon
I don't know about not enjoying it if you're not sympathetic to the viewpoint; heck, I don't hold that viewpoint, but I still enjoyed his books. Basically, anything that lets you know more about something, or gives you a different perspective can't be bad; at the worst, all you do is read and discard. At best, you take away more info than you started with and your perspective is a little broader; you know the arguments you'll have to beat. Or, alternatively, it just might change your mind.
Knowledge is a good thing; suspend judgement until the end and then make your own decision. It might even change your mind; you never know.
Simon
Roger Penrose: The Emperor's New Mind and Shadows of the Mind; excellent books :)
Sorry, I have to use 3.02 at work, and it does NOT support png
In that case, its been supported since IE4.0. However, unfortunately, QuickTime takes over PNG support when you install it, which is a real pain in the ass.
Simon
Hey Alan...
So, do you do any hacking on your Sinclair Spectrum +3 any more? Or has all that fallen by the wayside these days?
Thanks,
Simon Cooke
(Your Sinclair magazine's ex technical ed)
Emperically testing:
Netscape 4.61, on a Windows 98 box, ploinks up the "Do you want to buy Quicktime now or keep on being pestered each day until the end of time" box, and displays a test PNG in the center of the window.
MS Internet Explorer just puts up in the center of the screen. Treats a PNG rather differently than a GIF or JPG file, anyway.
Sounds like QuickTime overrode the built-in IE handlers for PNG files... the way it does with midi files and a few other things that I wish it would keep its hands off!
Simon
Maybe this means we can fianlly get decent support for PNG/MNG in IE/Mozilla w/out needing those lame ass plugins.
IE's supported PNG since at least version 3.02, IIRC.
Simon
Perfectly acceptable to a compiler if you don't need to return a value from main, simply because that that point you're usually returning to the OS, and in the runtime there will be a different mechanism used to pass out the return value... scary, but true :)
Simon
*drag statictext to project window*
*click in 'value' section*
*type 'Hello World'*
*run*
That's on a Mac, but there's no reason this style of application framework couldn't be used on Linux. All it takes is someone to code it and keep things clean and uncluttered. 'Hello world' is not hard in a proper GUI builder. It shouldn't require _any_ code.
Sounds like writing Visual Basic code... now the question is... what kind of code do you have to put together in C on the Mac to do the same thing? All a RAD tool does is hide the underlying architecture, which is good for somethings, but hopelessly useless when you want to break out of the sandbox it forces you to play inside of.
Simon
Note: I don't suggest starting out on this if you have no prior GUI programming experience.
:)
Heck, I don't suggest starting out on this if you have no prior Localization experience; because if your stuff goes global, everyone who doesn't speak your language is screwed
Okay.. so I'm partly kidding... but don't forget that not everyone speaks/reads/writes in English...
Simon
Heheheheh :) I thought that was you :)
;)
Ideally, you want some way of specifying standard keys for any given operation, and then have the system always bind that key in any app which can perform that operation.
But that's for advanced users only
si
OK, that works. I wasn't thinking of doing that way. I was thinking of going through the full steps to create a window, set up the message pump, yada yada yada. All the steps you would normally go through for a normal Windows app, but then just output "Hello, world." Doing it the long way would take many, many more lines.
:)
Alternatively, you could just do it as a windows console app
Si
how long does it take you to write a hello world win gui code ? 70+ lines (look at any win programming book - thats the first win32 example). 70+ lines for a GUI and you think its compact ?? which planet are you from ?
Well... it takes me about 30 seconds actually... who cares how many lines it takes?
Why not let us know how many lines it takes for your GUI?
Simon
I find that the horrible messaging system in windows basically forces you to write a plug in for windows
:)
However, it is highly scalable and highly customizable; you can do pretty much anything with it, because it can be expanded ad infinitum. You probably just don't like writing WNDPROCs
Simon
Remember folks, a crack like this would be illegal under UCITA because it purposefully circumvents a copy-prevention scheme.
You must fight the implementation of UCITA in your state!
Why? So people like you can get a free ride because you don't believe in intellectual property/copyright? No thanks... I prefer to reward people for their efforts, not rip them off.
Simon
At the very least, they will have to release the architecture-specific mods they've done to the kernel - this is a radically different architecture from most out there, so this will probably be a fair bit.
But it won't USE the Linux kernel; there's no need for it to even *have* a kernel. In fact, for games you want as little between you and the hardware as possible. No need for multiple threads. No need for anything else a kernel gives you (such as memory management). Just pure, to-the-metal coding.
Linux is the Japanese dev system. Europe and the US will probably get either just a Visual Studio dev system, or one that runs on both Windows and Linux...
Simon
Erm... but what does this have to do with developing Playstation games? I can see where it'd be useful for rendering motion-JPEG sequences for inclusion on the DVD-ROM, but other than that??????
Since the OS for the development stations will be Linux, they will have to release the source for the port to this new hardware. Everything will be available to the Linux community. No doubt, there is no doubt going to be some VERY interesting code in there.
Why will they have to release the source? Sure, if they're using a modified GCC, they'll have to release the source that generates the compiled code, but that won't be much use; all the libs that talk to the hardware will probably be shipped as binaries.
Not that this helps much; game coders quickly learn to hack the hardware and get the most out of the system anyway.
Simon
The article didn't give much information though. Does anyone know why they chose to use a Linux based workstation instead of using BeOS, NT or FreeBSD? Wasn't FreeBSD used to render the special effects in the 'Titanic' movie?
According to a friend of mine who works for the Bitmap Brothers at the moment (and was lead Dev on Sentinel Returns), it's because Linux is (and has been all along the line) the preferred development platform for Japanese games developers.
However, he also said that it would probably move to Visual Studio for European/US programmers, as that's what happened with the first Playstation.
FreeBSD being used for Titanic has no relevance here; 3D Studio Max tends to be the tool of choice for 3D modellers, and most people run that on NT.
Simon
MS will make defeating this project -- with "enhancements" -- priority one.
Hmmm... interesting claim... but a pretty far out one. There's no way that MS can "defeat this project with enhancements" without screwing up backwards compatibility with existing apps -- which is a MAJOR thing at Microsoft. It's why Win32 is (as people repeatedly claim here) a mess -- they can't change things without breaking software that's out there that people use day in, day out.
So what if Wine will always be a couple of years behind? That's still 100's of 1000's of apps that will run on the emulator. That's a massive software base to run.
Simon
[old APIs never die - they just end up in c:\windows\system32]
Nah... never did :) (no need -- didn't work with anyone who worked there). Though I have heard that it's the most confusingly laid out building on campus; more so than Bldg. 43 (which was so symmetrical, that on more than one occasion, I ended up walking into someone else's office by mistake).
:))
:)
Simon
(who left MS and is about to start a senior dev position elsewhere, because he liked to work outside of the box, rather than being pigeonholed
I think I just managed to take down ASP on the box... it's no longer alive :) [guestbook times-out, everything else is up and running] (more details on the exploit when they bring it back up; if I can take it down again, I may be able to get full access to the files on the machine).
... of course, if it wasn't me, I've just made myself look incredibly stupid.
:)
Simon
If you worked at Microsoft (which I did until recently), what was your 7 digit employee ID number? If you're not willing to give that out, which area code and exchange code was your phone number at MS (that's the first 6 digits)? What's the difference between building 6 and building 7 on the MS campus?
NT is not based on DOS either. You're talking crap.
Simon
It's just lame ass script kiddies trying to (misguidedly) look cool by sticking meta-refresh tags and javascript into the guestbook. Not a crack (it just messes with YOUR browser, not the server); just lame and inconvenient.
Simon
"Stolen the idea of releasing the root password" ... so what? linuxppc wasn't exactly the original instigator of the challenge.
:)
get over it guys... both machines are reasonably secure... though I may have a few tricks to throw at both of them
Si