On yet another note, I found out at a class dinner in the last week of school that a guy in my Japanese class is going to be working on IE this summer. I feel dirty now. I always thought his "Microsoft" sweatshirts were a bit stupid, but I didn't know he was going to work for them! I spent the rest of the dinner whispering "Go Mozilla!"
That's okay. I feel dirty every time I talk to people who programmed the Commodore 64. Every time I do, I spend the rest of the day whispering "Go Sinclair!".
Which just goes to show: You have an irrational, almost religious anti-MS zeal building up.
Sheeesh.
Yours, hoping that you don't go out, buy a copy of Catcher in the Rye, and come out to Redmond.
Why bother? If anyone Microsoft employees are posting here, they should be indicating their identities as such.
If they're not (and if you're an MS employee reading this who is posting without disclosing), then they should read their employee handbook and think long and hard about the bit where it says you HAVE to disclose your identity in online forums. And then think if they want to risk being fired or not.
Just for the record: B = 66 I = 73 L = 76 L = 76 G = 71 A = 65 T = 84 E = 69 S = 83 I = 1 I = 1 I = 1
Hey! Those three "I"'s at the end have the value ONE?!?!??!
Make a call; it's either 49 for each of them, or 73 for each of them. Which just goes to show -- you can get anything out of anything if you're willing to fudge it long enough and rationalize hard enough.
... and to think people actually buy into this crapola.:)
------------------------------------------------- A call to the GNU Generation! ------------------------------------------------ -
DON`T DO IT! M$ IS OWNED BY CAPITALISTS AND RUN BY THE VERY SAME.
Hellloooo... if you really ARE a Linux/GNU advocate of any sort, you're perpetuating the "GNU == Communism" myth that people blame Microsoft for spreading. So get a clue, and learn the difference.
Especially for us coders. C++ and C do an okay job of this, as well, but J++ was made to bring back the old (and clearly wrong) thought that the OS does matter, and therefore for some mysterious reason you must pay good money to get it, just to run someone's J++ code. This is wrong, people.
Yes, but not in the way you think it's wrong.
It's WRONG because you're talking BULLSHIT.
To run someone else's J++ code, install one of the latest versions of IE, or the Microsoft JVM. That's all you have to do. End of story.
You don't have to pay anyone any money to run J++ code; you just install and go.
Buying J++ to write the code is another matter; but if you really wanted to, you could just get the MS Java SDK and write it all by hand.
does anyone know what compiler m$ uses to compile NT code? surely not Visual C++?
Yup, it's VC++ - in fact there's a site on the net somewhere that specifies which compiler options to use. Search for optimization and Cutler and NT, and you might find it.
Well, if Microsoft made their code open source some of their drivers might come out of that... one possibly useful thing. I do agree that most of the GUI/OS code would be worse than useless though!
So in other words, there's no point in MS making any of their software open source, right?
So you're saying you don't want it to happen.
I thought Open Source was the "one true way of doing things" these days?
Anyone really keen on fixing Microsoft's bugs for them? I think it's a pretty hollow move, MS lets us tinker with some of thier coveted source-code, while keeping all the really useful code closed off.
No thanks. I already have several "open source solutions"...
Thing is, it's all well and good for you to plan on fixing the bugs - but there are a great number of bugs that WE can't fix, because it'd break existing apps.
That, unfortunately, is the Catch 22 we find ourselves stuck with.
This is Microsofts' standard operating procedure. Of course he doesn't want to announce a patch. He'd much prefer forcing customers to buy more unwanted Microsoft products. Think about it... Millions of bug-fix downloads, or millions of extorted software sales... If *I* were a Microsoft Vice President, it would be a pretty easy business decision...
They do the same thing with Windows NT - Rather than fixing it so that it is reliable enough to run customers' applications, Microsoft encourages you to buy two or three. One for each application. And people do. Microsoft has no presure or incentive whatsoever to produce quality products.
Sorry, but that's a load of crap. It is Microsoft company policy NOT to announce ANYTHING until we're sure it's ready for public consumption. Because until that point, anything could happen.
Take "COOL" for example - an internal project that a couple of guys were working on as a blue-sky possible new language that MS could release. Someone got hold of a stack of powerpoint slides that were given in a presentation to one of the higher-ups to see if it would be worth pursuing. And someone got hold of them and leaked them.
So, all of a sudden, next thing you see in the press is billions of people speculating on what we're doing, people stop using VJ++ 6.0 in droves, hanging on to our every word.
It's CRAZY. It wasn't even vaporware - yet someone leaked it to the press, and 99% of people on Usenet start saying "Oh yeah, it's a Microsoft FUD campaign" - when those of us who talked to the people working on it knew that they had just been tossing ideas around, and nothing firm had been decided either way.
This is why the policy is in place. Or take ZDNet, who published the "Windows Next Gen" stuff about the Neptune project (again, another leak) -- a project that is years away from fruition -- just like WinPad or Pegasus or any of the other skunkworks projects from the past -- but we have NO idea if or when these projects will ship -- IF EVER.
This is why we don't go around shouting what we're working on this instant. Too many people are willing to bet their company on Microsoft just because of the branding, so we have to be very careful what we say in public - because if people do bet their companies on it, and we don't come through with it, then hey presto! they're in deep shit.
It's not about "forcing people to buy more unwanted MS products" -- (not to mention that after all, if they didn't want them, they couldn't be "forced" to buy them). It's about not starting panics or setting peoples expectations. Until we have the finished product (or a beta version thereof) in our grubby little paws, the rule is that we DON'T announce it. Too much other stuff can happen in the mean time.
*sighs*
As for the "do the same thing with Windows NT" line - we've released 4 service packs for NT 4.0 so far, and a 5th is on the way. A service pack, of course, being a cross between a free upgrade and bug fixes. So yes, we do have pressure AND incentive to produce quality products (we've got a "bug hell" system in place here at the moment -- once you have a certain number of bugs on your plate, you can't do any fun stuff [like coding] until you've fixed them all).
As somone once said, and I forget who it was, "If Microsoft can get this much milage out of a C2 rating for NT with no network connection, how much milage could Linux get with a A1 rating, with no power cord."
Hellooooooo?!?!?!? Anyone wuth a brain in there?
Orange Book C2 ratings are explicitly defined as being WITHOUT A NETWORK CONNECTION.
Personally, I agree with you here. However, they're not lying - they're just ignorant. There's a difference.
If you told me that there was no software in the entire world that could calculate the Nth prime number in 10 iterations of a loop, using 16k of memory -- and two weeks ago, someone in a hut in deepest Africa wrote a program to do it on their laptop, would you be lying?
No. You would just be ignorant (in the strict definition of the word - no offence intended).
Subtle difference, but important. On the whole though, I do agree with you.
I mean, come on! They're salesmen! It's not like they have a clue or anything...
:)
Beware Corporate-Controlled Languages
on
HotSpot arrives
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· Score: 1
Ask yourself this question: What would Java be like now if it was an open language from the start?
The answer is: Two languages. One supported by Sun which would be secure and platform independant. And the other supported by Microsoft which would be Windows only and insecure.
Insecure? How do you figure that?
Sun fought for, and won the removal of those extentions which would have split the language. Not that I don't think it should eventually be opened up, but if Java was an open language back then, or even if it opened up right now, those extentions would still be around.
Actually, they won a preliminary injunction which forces the program to ask you if you want to use Microsoft extensions when you write a J++ app (note: not run one). It also made MS include JNI in the JVM.
Boy. You're just short on facts today, aren't you?
A lot of you don't like Sun, and as a result resent their control over Java. However they know what needs to be done to keep Java alive and they have the lawyers to do it. As long as Sun controls Java, it will still stand for the same things: platform independance, security, and probably some other stuff a more experienced Java programmer could fill in.
Funny... for a platform independent architecture, the JVM is pretty optimized for Sparc. eg. float/double types are Sparc format.
So, who is getting terminated over the mindcraft incident
Show me someone who's behaving badly in online forums and/or making ludicrous claims about competitors *without admitting their relationship to Microsoft*, and I'll show you someone who's getting terminated. It's as simple as that.
Ideally the best way to have an impartial test is to allow Microsoft partisons to tune the Microsoft machine and Linux partisons to tune the Linux machine.
While this may simply be an exercise in who is the better system administrator it would at least insure that nobody purposefully mis-tweaked something.
Ideally both parties should also have access to the same help facilities that any end user would have access to.
This is the most intelligent comment I've seen on the matter so far -- and the best way to ensure a fair test.
Though someone would have to oversee things to make sure that both sides don't use dubious hacks to get more performance.
I do not see the Linux community standing idle and taking it, ESR's post is a fine example of this. Note that benchmarks like mindcrafts were done with NT vs OS/2 over and over with no real response from IBM. The OS/2 users who protested were categorized as "zealots" and written off. On Compuserve, false user accounts (see "Barkto") were alleged to have been created to depict "real users" who then went on and on about serious OS/2 errors that "trashed my hard disk" and "my backups", ad nauseum. (Such reports were then published in PC Week, Infoworld, Computerworld to drive home the FUD).
This, of course, completely ignores the fact that:
1. Barkto was a complete and utter asshole. 2. He was fired for what he did. 3. Any other MS employee doing what Barkto did, or otherwise found to be deliberately misleading the public will be terminated on the spot.
Actually, being the "voice of Redmond" had nothing to do with applying for a job at MS.
And I'm not a "disinformation specialist" either...
Funny how your research has nothing of the other stuff I've done... like writing articles for a number of international magazines on subjects such as the Communications Decency act (my article was used in Congress against it, and in the Labour Govt's planning process on their Internet policies), or the one I wrote about the raw deal that DeathNet was getting.
I like to think of myself as a voice of reason; not a zealot, not an advocate... unfortunately zealots like Joe Barr (who was banned for abusive conduct from the MSNBC Tech BBS) and spent some time being most discourteous to me on the Assessing Microsoft list (which is actually the Appraising Microsoft list -- which shows how well Joe researches his material).
How about this post from the AM-Info list? From Joe...
> > > Actually, Java has an interesting pedigree - its root are Smalltalk and C; > smalltalk had incredibly similar properties -- virtual machine, large set of > class libraries, write once, run anywhere -- and it uses a cleaned up C++, > or a properly OO'd C, depending on your point of view. > > So, it's not an innovation - unless you're talking about the marketing > associated with it. And the whole applet thing isn't a good example of > innovation either -- after all, there's that patent out there (I can't > remember the name of the company who has it). >
This is pure Redmonian bullshit. You are a professional liar. Very typical Microsoftie.
Anyone wanna critique this? Joe couldn't come up with a response when I asked him why it was a lie.
Or how about this one: http://lists.essential.org/1999/am-info/msg02666 .html
If you didn't love to lie, you wouldn't be working for MS.
Simon Cooke wrote:
> So, I like to write. Not only that, but I hate people spreading lies -- > which is one of the reasons I wrote *another* acclaimed article on DeathNet > and the Calgary Sun Times' smear campaign about the Right To Die society in > Canada - a story which ended up being passed around the world as true, by > the Reuters news network, even being published in The Times in London at > one point. > > This is why I post online, defending Microsoft. Because I don't like it when > things are wrong, and there's a chance that I can correct them. > > Simon Cooke > (Not speaking officially for Microsoft - this is just me, myself and I)
Or this one... http://lists.essential.org/1999/am-info/msg02662 .html
From: Joe Barr > This "cute" defense of the scum in Redmond, and by scum I am referring not only > to > Gates the duplicitous dweeb and his band of gangsta geeks, but to the rank and > file > developers who sell their soul by lying and stealing for the sake of the > corporation > and their bonus packages, is stupid.
Well, thankyou Joe. I love you too.
Simon Cooke (The views of this poster are his and his alone, and may or may not reflect the views of the Microsoft Corporation).
Or this one: http://lists.essential.org/1999/am-info/msg02781 .html
An idiot maybe. But not a two bit whore like yourself.
Simon Cooke wrote:
> > This is pure Redmonian bullshit. You are a professional liar. Very > typical > > Microsoftie. > > And you would appear to be a professional idiot, Joe. > > Simon Cooke > (The views of this poster are his and his alone, and may or may not reflect > the views of the Microsoft Corporation).
So, which part of Joe's missive are you going to believe? (And, by the way, if you'd like to send me a copy of it, I'd love to read it - but I'm not going to subscribe to Joe's forum just so that I can read what he thinks of me -- life's too short).
When he hung out on the MSNBC Tech BBS, anyone who didn't agree with him was a Microsoft shill.
Sure, I work for Microsoft, but I'm no PR flunky working in Marketing. I'm a developer. I program user interface controls for a variety of the products you'll find in the next version of Visual Studio. I don't do anything else -- I COULDN'T do anything else without losing my visa. I ain't worth being deported for 10 years.
However, I would be the first to admit that I spend way too much time online. But when it comes down to yearly reviews, that's my problem and mine alone.
There's a good reason I have a disclaimer on all my posts; to remind you all that I may be biased because I work for Microsoft. That alone should be where it ends; no name calling, no "get out of here, this is a forum for Linux-heads", no instant suspicion -- I've already told you to take my posts with a pinch of salt. You know where I'm coming from. And in doing so, I expect you to take what I write on its merits. If I'm wrong about something, tell me - don't attack me. And if I agree with you, then I'll change my mind on the issue and back down from my position.
But please, please, please, don't use rabid ranting and raving idiots like Joe Barr as an example of "evidence" which can be used in some way against me, because he's a bitter old fool who shoots first (calling people whores amongst other things), and asks questions later.
Please though, send me a copy of the article. I may end up seeing about filing a slander suit against him if he's going a bit too far with his ranting.
And if you want to see the "real" me, then check out the MSNBC Tech BBS and join in the conversation. Ask some of the people there who I am, and how they feel about the advice I give. Heck, ask some of the guys on the MacCentral forum too.
Actually, being the "voice of Redmond" had nothing to do with applying for a job at MS.
And I'm not a "disinformation specialist" either...
Funny how your research has nothing of the other stuff I've done... like writing articles for a number of international magazines on subjects such as the Communications Decency act (my article was used in Congress against it, and in the Labour Govt's planning process on their Internet policies), or the one I wrote about the raw deal that DeathNet was getting.
I like to think of myself as a voice of reason; not a zealot, not an advocate... unfortunately zealots like Joe Barr (who was banned for abusive conduct from the MSNBC Tech BBS) and spent some time being most discourteous to me on the Assessing Microsoft list (which is actually the Appraising Microsoft list -- which shows how well Joe researches his material).
How about this post from the AM-Info list? From Joe...
> > > Actually, Java has an interesting pedigree - its root are Smalltalk and C; > smalltalk had incredibly similar properties -- virtual machine, large set of > class libraries, write once, run anywhere -- and it uses a cleaned up C++, > or a properly OO'd C, depending on your point of view. > > So, it's not an innovation - unless you're talking about the marketing > associated with it. And the whole applet thing isn't a good example of > innovation either -- after all, there's that patent out there (I can't > remember the name of the company who has it). >
This is pure Redmonian bullshit. You are a professional liar. Very typical Microsoftie.
Anyone wanna critique this? Joe couldn't come up with a response when I asked him why it was a lie.
Or how about this one: http://lists.essential.org/1999/am-info/msg02666 .html
If you didn't love to lie, you wouldn't be working for MS.
Simon Cooke wrote:
> So, I like to write. Not only that, but I hate people spreading lies -- > which is one of the reasons I wrote *another* acclaimed article on DeathNet > and the Calgary Sun Times' smear campaign about the Right To Die society in > Canada - a story which ended up being passed around the world as true, by > the Reuters news network, even being published in The Times in London at > one point. > > This is why I post online, defending Microsoft. Because I don't like it when > things are wrong, and there's a chance that I can correct them. > > Simon Cooke > (Not speaking officially for Microsoft - this is just me, myself and I)
Or this one... http://lists.essential.org/1999/am-info/msg02662 .html
From: Joe Barr > This "cute" defense of the scum in Redmond, and by scum I am referring not only > to > Gates the duplicitous dweeb and his band of gangsta geeks, but to the rank and > file > developers who sell their soul by lying and stealing for the sake of the > corporation > and their bonus packages, is stupid.
Well, thankyou Joe. I love you too.
Simon Cooke (The views of this poster are his and his alone, and may or may not reflect the views of the Microsoft Corporation).
Or this one: http://lists.essential.org/1999/am-info/msg02781 .html
An idiot maybe. But not a two bit whore like yourself.
Simon Cooke wrote:
> > This is pure Redmonian bullshit. You are a professional liar. Very > typical > > Microsoftie. > > And you would appear to be a professional idiot, Joe. > > Simon Cooke > (The views of this poster are his and his alone, and may or may not reflect > the views of the Microsoft Corporation).
So, which part of Joe's missive are you going to believe? (And, by the way, if you'd like to send me a copy of it, I'd love to read it - but I'm not going to subscribe to Joe's forum just so that I can read what he thinks of me -- life's too short).
When he hung out on the MSNBC Tech BBS, anyone who didn't agree with him was a Microsoft shill.
Sure, I work for Microsoft, but I'm no PR flunky working in Marketing. I'm a developer. I program user interface controls for a variety of the products you'll find in the next version of Visual Studio. I don't do anything else -- I COULDN'T do anything else without losing my visa. I ain't worth being deported for 10 years.
However, I would be the first to admit that I spend way too much time online. But when it comes down to yearly reviews, that's my problem and mine alone.
There's a good reason I have a disclaimer on all my posts; to remind you all that I may be biased because I work for Microsoft. That alone should be where it ends; no name calling, no "get out of here, this is a forum for Linux-heads", no instant suspicion -- I've already told you to take my posts with a pinch of salt. You know where I'm coming from. And in doing so, I expect you to take what I write on its merits. If I'm wrong about something, tell me - don't attack me. And if I agree with you, then I'll change my mind on the issue and back down from my position.
But please, please, please, don't use rabid ranting and raving idiots like Joe Barr as an example of "evidence" which can be used in some way against me, because he's a bitter old fool who shoots first (calling people whores amongst other things), and asks questions later.
Please though, send me a copy of the article. I may end up seeing about filing a slander suit against him if he's going a bit too far with his ranting.
64k was a pessimistic estimation; I've seen similar things done in under 4k.
But then I don't work for Microsoft, so producing small, fast applications that are stable and work well is a higher priority than you're probably used to.
Oooh... feeling bitchy today, are we?
There's always trade-off's in any coding. Sometimes you code for size. Sometimes for speed. Sometimes, to minimize both as much as possible (within limits).
Slashdot Mirror
On yet another note, I found out at a class dinner in the last week of school that a guy in my Japanese class is going to be working on IE this summer. I feel dirty now. I always thought his "Microsoft" sweatshirts were a bit stupid, but I didn't know he was going to work for them! I spent the rest of the dinner whispering "Go Mozilla!"
That's okay. I feel dirty every time I talk to people who programmed the Commodore 64. Every time I do, I spend the rest of the day whispering "Go Sinclair!".
Which just goes to show: You have an irrational, almost religious anti-MS zeal building up.
Sheeesh.
Yours, hoping that you don't go out, buy a copy of Catcher in the Rye, and come out to Redmond.
Why bother? If anyone Microsoft employees are posting here, they should be indicating their identities as such.
If they're not (and if you're an MS employee reading this who is posting without disclosing), then they should read their employee handbook and think long and hard about the bit where it says you HAVE to disclose your identity in online forums. And then think if they want to risk being fired or not.
Yeah... it's funny; I just wish it was internally consistent as well. Is that too much to ask?
I mean it explicitly says "take the ASCII representations of each of these characters", and then fudges the last 3 characters. And it ignores spaces.
:)
Just for the record:
:)
B = 66
I = 73
L = 76
L = 76
G = 71
A = 65
T = 84
E = 69
S = 83
I = 1
I = 1
I = 1
Hey! Those three "I"'s at the end have the value ONE?!?!??!
Make a call; it's either 49 for each of them, or 73 for each of them. Which just goes to show -- you can get anything out of anything if you're willing to fudge it long enough and rationalize hard enough.
... and to think people actually buy into this crapola.
-------------------------------------------------- -
A call to the GNU Generation!
-----------------------------------------------
DON`T DO IT! M$ IS OWNED BY CAPITALISTS AND RUN BY THE VERY SAME.
Hellloooo... if you really ARE a Linux/GNU advocate of any sort, you're perpetuating the "GNU == Communism" myth that people blame Microsoft for spreading. So get a clue, and learn the difference.
Especially for us coders. C++ and C do an okay job of this, as well, but J++ was made to bring back the old (and clearly wrong) thought that the OS does matter, and therefore for some mysterious reason you must pay good money to get it, just to run someone's J++ code. This is wrong, people.
Yes, but not in the way you think it's wrong.
It's WRONG because you're talking BULLSHIT.
To run someone else's J++ code, install one of the latest versions of IE, or the Microsoft JVM. That's all you have to do. End of story.
You don't have to pay anyone any money to run J++ code; you just install and go.
Buying J++ to write the code is another matter; but if you really wanted to, you could just get the MS Java SDK and write it all by hand.
Is that why they're being sued and the judge has issued numerous injunctions against them?
When were these? Links, please.
Also, anyone can sue anyone else in this country. You can sue if you spill your coffee over yourself. Being sued is no rubber-stamp of guilt.
does anyone know what compiler m$ uses to compile NT code? surely not Visual C++?
Yup, it's VC++ - in fact there's a site on the net somewhere that specifies which compiler options to use. Search for optimization and Cutler and NT, and you might find it.
Well, if Microsoft made their code open source some of their drivers might come out of that... one possibly useful thing. I do agree that most of the GUI/OS code would be worse than useless though!
So in other words, there's no point in MS making any of their software open source, right?
So you're saying you don't want it to happen.
I thought Open Source was the "one true way of doing things" these days?
Anyone really keen on fixing Microsoft's bugs for them? I think it's a pretty hollow move, MS lets us tinker with some of thier coveted source-code, while keeping all the really useful code closed off.
No thanks. I already have several "open source solutions"...
Thing is, it's all well and good for you to plan on fixing the bugs - but there are a great number of bugs that WE can't fix, because it'd break existing apps.
That, unfortunately, is the Catch 22 we find ourselves stuck with.
This is Microsofts' standard operating procedure. Of course he doesn't want to announce a patch. He'd much prefer forcing customers to buy more unwanted Microsoft products. Think about it... Millions of bug-fix downloads, or millions of extorted software sales... If *I* were a Microsoft Vice President, it would be a pretty easy business decision...
They do the same thing with Windows NT - Rather than fixing it so that it is reliable enough to run customers' applications, Microsoft encourages you to buy two or three. One for each application. And people do. Microsoft has no presure or incentive whatsoever to produce quality products.
Sorry, but that's a load of crap. It is Microsoft company policy NOT to announce ANYTHING until we're sure it's ready for public consumption. Because until that point, anything could happen.
Take "COOL" for example - an internal project that a couple of guys were working on as a blue-sky possible new language that MS could release. Someone got hold of a stack of powerpoint slides that were given in a presentation to one of the higher-ups to see if it would be worth pursuing. And someone got hold of them and leaked them.
So, all of a sudden, next thing you see in the press is billions of people speculating on what we're doing, people stop using VJ++ 6.0 in droves, hanging on to our every word.
It's CRAZY. It wasn't even vaporware - yet someone leaked it to the press, and 99% of people on Usenet start saying "Oh yeah, it's a Microsoft FUD campaign" - when those of us who talked to the people working on it knew that they had just been tossing ideas around, and nothing firm had been decided either way.
This is why the policy is in place. Or take ZDNet, who published the "Windows Next Gen" stuff about the Neptune project (again, another leak) -- a project that is years away from fruition -- just like WinPad or Pegasus or any of the other skunkworks projects from the past -- but we have NO idea if or when these projects will ship -- IF EVER.
This is why we don't go around shouting what we're working on this instant. Too many people are willing to bet their company on Microsoft just because of the branding, so we have to be very careful what we say in public - because if people do bet their companies on it, and we don't come through with it, then hey presto! they're in deep shit.
It's not about "forcing people to buy more unwanted MS products" -- (not to mention that after all, if they didn't want them, they couldn't be "forced" to buy them). It's about not starting panics or setting peoples expectations. Until we have the finished product (or a beta version thereof) in our grubby little paws, the rule is that we DON'T announce it. Too much other stuff can happen in the mean time.
*sighs*
As for the "do the same thing with Windows NT" line - we've released 4 service packs for NT 4.0 so far, and a 5th is on the way. A service pack, of course, being a cross between a free upgrade and bug fixes. So yes, we do have pressure AND incentive to produce quality products (we've got a "bug hell" system in place here at the moment -- once you have a certain number of bugs on your plate, you can't do any fun stuff [like coding] until you've fixed them all).
As somone once said, and I forget who it was, "If Microsoft can get this much milage out of a C2 rating for NT with no network connection, how much milage could Linux get with a A1 rating, with no power cord."
Hellooooooo?!?!?!? Anyone wuth a brain in there?
Orange Book C2 ratings are explicitly defined as being WITHOUT A NETWORK CONNECTION.
Struth.
Please, please, please, note the smiley.
Personally, I agree with you here. However, they're not lying - they're just ignorant. There's a difference.
If you told me that there was no software in the entire world that could calculate the Nth prime number in 10 iterations of a loop, using 16k of memory -- and two weeks ago, someone in a hut in deepest Africa wrote a program to do it on their laptop, would you be lying?
No. You would just be ignorant (in the strict definition of the word - no offence intended).
Subtle difference, but important. On the whole though, I do agree with you.
Jeeeeesus....
I mean, come on! They're salesmen! It's not like they have a clue or anything...
:)
Ask yourself this question: What would Java be like now if it was an open language from the start?
The answer is: Two languages. One supported by Sun which would be secure and platform independant. And the other supported by Microsoft which would be Windows only and insecure.
Insecure? How do you figure that?
Sun fought for, and won the removal of those extentions which would have split the language. Not that I don't think it should eventually be opened up, but if Java was an open language back then, or even if it opened up right now, those extentions would still be around.
Actually, they won a preliminary injunction which forces the program to ask you if you want to use Microsoft extensions when you write a J++ app (note: not run one). It also made MS include JNI in the JVM.
Boy. You're just short on facts today, aren't you?
A lot of you don't like Sun, and as a result resent their control over Java. However they know what needs to be done to keep Java alive and they have the lawyers to do it. As long as Sun controls Java, it will still stand for the same things: platform independance, security, and probably some other stuff a more experienced Java programmer could fill in.
Funny... for a platform independent architecture, the JVM is pretty optimized for Sparc. eg. float/double types are Sparc format.
So, who is getting terminated over the mindcraft incident
Show me someone who's behaving badly in online forums and/or making ludicrous claims about competitors *without admitting their relationship to Microsoft*, and I'll show you someone who's getting terminated. It's as simple as that.
Ideally the best way to have an impartial test is to allow Microsoft partisons to tune the Microsoft machine and Linux partisons to tune the Linux machine.
While this may simply be an exercise in who is the better system administrator it would at least insure that nobody purposefully mis-tweaked something.
Ideally both parties should also have access to the same help facilities that any end user would have access to.
This is the most intelligent comment I've seen on the matter so far -- and the best way to ensure a fair test.
Though someone would have to oversee things to make sure that both sides don't use dubious hacks to get more performance.
I do not see the Linux community standing idle and taking it, ESR's post is a fine example of this. Note that benchmarks like mindcrafts were done with NT vs OS/2 over and over with no real response from IBM. The OS/2 users who protested were categorized as "zealots" and written off. On Compuserve, false user accounts (see "Barkto") were alleged to have been created to depict "real users" who then went on and on about serious OS/2 errors that "trashed my hard disk" and "my backups", ad nauseum. (Such reports were then published in PC Week, Infoworld, Computerworld to drive home the FUD).
This, of course, completely ignores the fact that:
1. Barkto was a complete and utter asshole.
2. He was fired for what he did.
3. Any other MS employee doing what Barkto did, or otherwise found to be deliberately misleading the public will be terminated on the spot.
And I'm not a "disinformation specialist" either...
Funny how your research has nothing of the other stuff I've done... like writing articles for a number of international magazines on subjects such as the Communications Decency act (my article was used in Congress against it, and in the Labour Govt's planning process on their Internet policies), or the one I wrote about the raw deal that DeathNet was getting.
I like to think of myself as a voice of reason; not a zealot, not an advocate... unfortunately zealots like Joe Barr (who was banned for abusive conduct from the MSNBC Tech BBS) and spent some time being most discourteous to me on the Assessing Microsoft list (which is actually the Appraising Microsoft list -- which shows how well Joe researches his material).
How about this post from the AM-Info list? From Joe...
http://lists.essential.org/1999/am-info/msg0277
Anyone wanna critique this? Joe couldn't come up with a response when I asked him why it was a lie.
Or how about this one:
http://lists.essential.org/1999/am-info/msg0266
Or this one...
http://lists.essential.org/1999/am-info/msg0266
Or this one:
http://lists.essential.org/1999/am-info/msg0278
So, which part of Joe's missive are you going to believe? (And, by the way, if you'd like to send me a copy of it, I'd love to read it - but I'm not going to subscribe to Joe's forum just so that I can read what he thinks of me -- life's too short).
When he hung out on the MSNBC Tech BBS, anyone who didn't agree with him was a Microsoft shill.
Sure, I work for Microsoft, but I'm no PR flunky working in Marketing. I'm a developer. I program user interface controls for a variety of the products you'll find in the next version of Visual Studio. I don't do anything else -- I COULDN'T do anything else without losing my visa.
I ain't worth being deported for 10 years.
However, I would be the first to admit that I spend way too much time online. But when it comes down to yearly reviews, that's my problem and mine alone.
There's a good reason I have a disclaimer on all my posts; to remind you all that I may be biased because I work for Microsoft. That alone should be where it ends; no name calling, no "get out of here, this is a forum for Linux-heads", no instant suspicion -- I've already told you to take my posts with a pinch of salt. You know where I'm coming from. And in doing so, I expect you to take what I write on its merits. If I'm wrong about something, tell me - don't attack me. And if I agree with you, then I'll change my mind on the issue and back down from my position.
But please, please, please, don't use rabid ranting and raving idiots like Joe Barr as an example of "evidence" which can be used in some way against me, because he's a bitter old fool who shoots first (calling people whores amongst other things), and asks questions later.
Please though, send me a copy of the article. I may end up seeing about filing a slander suit against him if he's going a bit too far with his ranting.
And if you want to see the "real" me, then check out the MSNBC Tech BBS and join in the conversation. Ask some of the people there who I am, and how they feel about the advice I give. Heck, ask some of the guys on the MacCentral forum too.
http://bbs.msnbc.com/bbs/msnbc-scitech/index.as
http://www.maccentral.com/forum/?
And I'm not a "disinformation specialist" either...
Funny how your research has nothing of the other stuff I've done... like writing articles for a number of international magazines on subjects such as the Communications Decency act (my article was used in Congress against it, and in the Labour Govt's planning process on their Internet policies), or the one I wrote about the raw deal that DeathNet was getting.
I like to think of myself as a voice of reason; not a zealot, not an advocate... unfortunately zealots like Joe Barr (who was banned for abusive conduct from the MSNBC Tech BBS) and spent some time being most discourteous to me on the Assessing Microsoft list (which is actually the Appraising Microsoft list -- which shows how well Joe researches his material).
How about this post from the AM-Info list? From Joe...
http://lists.essential.org/1999/am-info/msg0277
Anyone wanna critique this? Joe couldn't come up with a response when I asked him why it was a lie.
Or how about this one:
http://lists.essential.org/1999/am-info/msg0266
Or this one...
http://lists.essential.org/1999/am-info/msg0266
Or this one:
http://lists.essential.org/1999/am-info/msg0278
So, which part of Joe's missive are you going to believe? (And, by the way, if you'd like to send me a copy of it, I'd love to read it - but I'm not going to subscribe to Joe's forum just so that I can read what he thinks of me -- life's too short).
When he hung out on the MSNBC Tech BBS, anyone who didn't agree with him was a Microsoft shill.
Sure, I work for Microsoft, but I'm no PR flunky working in Marketing. I'm a developer. I program user interface controls for a variety of the products you'll find in the next version of Visual Studio. I don't do anything else -- I COULDN'T do anything else without losing my visa.
I ain't worth being deported for 10 years.
However, I would be the first to admit that I spend way too much time online. But when it comes down to yearly reviews, that's my problem and mine alone.
There's a good reason I have a disclaimer on all my posts; to remind you all that I may be biased because I work for Microsoft. That alone should be where it ends; no name calling, no "get out of here, this is a forum for Linux-heads", no instant suspicion -- I've already told you to take my posts with a pinch of salt. You know where I'm coming from. And in doing so, I expect you to take what I write on its merits. If I'm wrong about something, tell me - don't attack me. And if I agree with you, then I'll change my mind on the issue and back down from my position.
But please, please, please, don't use rabid ranting and raving idiots like Joe Barr as an example of "evidence" which can be used in some way against me, because he's a bitter old fool who shoots first (calling people whores amongst other things), and asks questions later.
Please though, send me a copy of the article. I may end up seeing about filing a slander suit against him if he's going a bit too far with his ranting.
Where I come from, 64K is a pretty huge chunk of code to waste on something that doesn't add any functionality.
Just thought I'd add a PS.
Namely, where I come from, I agree with you. Mind you, I programmed assembly language for 15 years too.
64k was a pessimistic estimation; I've seen similar things done in under 4k.
But then I don't work for Microsoft, so producing small, fast applications that are stable and work well is a higher priority than you're probably used to.
Oooh... feeling bitchy today, are we?
There's always trade-off's in any coding. Sometimes you code for size. Sometimes for speed. Sometimes, to minimize both as much as possible (within limits).
And sometimes you code for fun.
Well... here's the docs on boot.ini:
o d98/html/3952/table1.html
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/periodic/peri
As for physically yanking the RAM out of the box... dunno. Maybe it was less hassle to use the switch.
For the dancing paperclip, of course. And the flight simulator easter egg.
I make the Flight Simulator easter egg as taking up ~ 64k. But that's just me.
Arbitrary cutoff? So that it doesn't spend forever chasing down links?