Re:Flash as an application development platform
on
The Future of Flash
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· Score: 1
It would be wonderful if you could write an app that works for 99% of all users, wouldn't it?
It's called JAVA. Learn it.
Re:Flash as an application development platform
on
The Future of Flash
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· Score: 1
But this by no means is application development. This is a delivery method. It may be app dev in a very very very minimalistic sense in the same way that an HTML form is app development. Even games in Flash have very limited abilities. For ubiquitous dev environment, I'd say use JAVA. And by comparison of development capabilities, Flash isn't even close.
It can do animation well, multimedia delivery (not too complex) but APP DEV? I just don't think so. Show me a cross platform email client with LDAP capabilities or a spreadsheet program in Flash and then we'll talk.
Re:Flash as an application development platform
on
The Future of Flash
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· Score: 1
Even if everything was fixed, the fact that Flashplayer 7 is the only thing available to Linux which is 5% of desktops and well over 40% of servers means I still won't be using it for anything short of animation. If there is the possibility that necessary functionality will not work properly for 99% of users, I still won't be using it for anything more than animation.
Yet another reason why Flash for application development is just a BAD idea.
Re:Flash as an application development platform
on
The Future of Flash
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· Score: 1
I gotta say I agree. After trying to build a modular blogging app in Flash several years ago, I found out just how F'ed up flash is. There is little consistency with the Actionscript language and no DOM for the underlying structure so it requires alot of guesswork in places. Plus poor support of POST variables, SESSIONS and other functionality made me give up entirely.
Mind you that they have overcome some of these issues... but not really. A nice thing is that someone figured out how to make the text searchable by search engines by embedding it in the HTML that holds the flash. Not really a fix since Flash is dynamic and can repop that info without refreshing the HTML.
To this day, our company only uses it for animation and thats it. Lack of compatibility, lack of functionality and SEO are still major issues with adoption for webpages.
I still love Flash but will never be programming applications in it. I'd rather use PHP GTK before then.
Actually you are still wrong. Microsoft specifically stated that the DRM will make it so that the content plays with a loss of resolution or 'not at all'.
And if you are tired of it, tell them it's a bad idea like everyone else. Hell, why do you think the throngs of people who hate them continue to grow every day?? Do you think it's because they are such a swell bunch of guys with great ideas and products everyone loves? If so then I've got an OS to sell you... and it's 100% secure!!!
Fact: DX10 is tied to Vista. Declared by Microsoft. Fact: Vista requires massive hardware upgrades. DRM monitor, more RAM, new motherboards, high end graphics cards, etc. Fact: 50% of companies will not upgrade to Vista and another 15% have stated that they never even heard of it. Of the 50%, hal;f of those stated that it would at least be 18 months until after release that they would even consider. (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/02/windows_v ista_upgrades/)
Now follow the logic trail if you can... We can assume that 50% of users will not upgrade and even fewer when you consider they all need to buy new machines and even FEWER when you consider that other consumers haven't even HEARD of Vista! Now DX10 only runs on VISTA. Any game developed for DX10 will only run on VISTA. Now with above information of the install base, this is your beginning consumer market that you are targetting and only a percentage of the aboce will purchase your game.
In other words, this means that anyone releasing anything for DX10 for the first 18 months after release will have a severely smaller market than those releasing for DX9. As such, DX10 will probably not have any real impact for 2 years or more.
Hence that gives any other alternative like OpenGL, the chance to make up the ground since OpenGL is not tied to any OS or hardware.
Now that I have connected the dots for you, here's hoping your brain can take in the big picture.
What would be so different about the exclusivity of DX10 on Vista as opposed to the exclusivity of DXs 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 on Win 95, 98, NT (DX3 only), 2K, and XP that makes now the proper time for OpenGL to become dominant?
The difference would be that none of them REQUIRED you to update all your hardware in order to run it. DX10 requires it. Vista requires it. The Monitor DRM requires it.
As such, adoption of DirectX10 may be a long time coming. Sure hardcore gamers will probably get a new machine but most everyone else will wait until at least SP1. Until SP1 is released, alow of manufacturers won't put out games that support DX10 unless they also support DX9 as well. To do elsewise would be to limit their market.
If you look at the list of Members you will also spot Panasonic, Toshiba, Softimage, NCSoft and alot of other heavy hitters.
The fact that Google and Apple are involved gives me hope that people will start making applications for Linux and Macs soon. Also, since DirectX 10 is only available for Vista, this may be the prime time for OpenGL to start stealing some market share.
Oh by the way, you should mention this to Microsoft who at a stockholders meeting mentioned that Linux had far higher growth than they have for the last 5 years. It would seem even Microsoft thinks you're wrong.:)
Well that would be the same as it is now. Nations due not allow flights to certain countries. Not allowing access to the internet would be quite similar. But the internet would have a greater ability to respond as well en force. Imagine a country with human rights violations suddenly getting blocked from the internet ENTIRELY! The only network they would be able to access would be just within their country.
As a sovereign nation, the internet would have the ability to respond instead of being an idle spectator in actions that affect it. Suspending access to commerce and information can be a tremendous blow in this day and age.
I've often said that the only way you can solve most of the issues revolving around the internet today is to make it a sovereign nation. That way one set of laws, one set of taxes, one set of decency can apply to all thus avoiding lawsuits in a million different countries due to your content.
Hopefully though, an international body can agree to some basic tenets so that we can establish so we can limit trivial laws and lawsuits due to localized laws.
Oh it doesn't huh? So Windows Explorer relying upon IE doesn't count as preloading? Outlook relying on IE doesn't count? All the API's and DLL's that are preloaded on boot so that applications can use IE's underlying structure don't count?
Sorry to tell you friend but that what's known as preloading. And because it's bundled into ever MS app that there is, it HAS to preload so that everything else can work.
Remember, thoise who can, do. Those who can't, bundle.
yes until they can claim that they are separate, I count them as one
Interesting. My computer has 4 gigs of RAM and uses only 200 megs or so at boot. Never had it use a gig, or close to it, even when IE was my primary browser.
I'm sorry but you have failed the reading portion of this test.
Hate to tell you this but you know that tiny little operating system called Windows that takes up a GIG? Guess what preloads, is built in and cannot be separated from it? If you guessed IE then you win a footprint the size of New Hampshire. Thats right, all those DLL's and API's that have to preload for 5 minutes more than double Firefoxs load. And Firefox can do the same (if you enjoy monlithic load times) so that it can poreload as well.
Aside from that, IE takes twice as long to load a page. We have an office in Manila that had to switch entirely to Firefox because our internal tools took FOREVER to load in IE.
So sorry pal. The old, 30MB footprint vs the GB footprint of a browser/os (yes until they can claim that they are separate, I count them as one) makes Firefox look like Kate Moss next to Jerry Garcia.
Those who can compete, do. Those who can't, bundle.
This is so surprising since Microsoft has a spotless record on security and always puts the end users security above its need to add more bells and whistles.
Profits increasing?? I SO don't think so. Haven't really increased for awhile...
****************** Microsoft's profits slipped to $2.83bn or 28 cents per share from the $3.7bn or 34 cents per share reported last year. Microsoft's operating expenses rose more than 10 per cent, as the company shelled out cash to catch up to Google in the search game and correct product delays. ******************
I dunno but losing one THIRD of your profits in onequarter doesn't seem very good to me. Must be why their stock is tanking...
Uh-oh. Here comes the FUD patrol to tell us how using twice as many Windows servers in order to compete with Linux servers is a good thing. Well we're all ears... please go on. I'd love to hear how while your install base goes down and your product sales go up how this is an improvement.
and yet billions of dollars has not kept them from sucking, getting hacked, getting sued, being fined, stopping users from migrating, etc.
It's amazing that as Linux desktops, Linux server, Open Office, Firefox and Mac desktops continue to gain on them that their stats continue to rise. Too many cooks spoil the books.
I find it interesting that Bill Gates at a recent symposium told Microsoft affiliates that there is a 20% chance that Vista would slip again. Since I live in Seattle, I have friends who are developers over there who swear it will never make the January deadline.
I love it when they are already talking about the new release slipping when they have already made promises through their teeth for the last 3 years.
Considering that Directx 10 is only on VISTA, any game developer launching games for Vista from the get go will probably be very upset when their sales numbers do not make up for development costs.
I think by now, everyone realizes that Microsofts product isn't good until the second or third version and people will wait. As such, games released with Directx will be directly affected by this.
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It's called JAVA. Learn it.
But this by no means is application development. This is a delivery method. It may be app dev in a very very very minimalistic sense in the same way that an HTML form is app development. Even games in Flash have very limited abilities. For ubiquitous dev environment, I'd say use JAVA. And by comparison of development capabilities, Flash isn't even close.
It can do animation well, multimedia delivery (not too complex) but APP DEV? I just don't think so. Show me a cross platform email client with LDAP capabilities or a spreadsheet program in Flash and then we'll talk.
Even if everything was fixed, the fact that Flashplayer 7 is the only thing available to Linux which is 5% of desktops and well over 40% of servers means I still won't be using it for anything short of animation. If there is the possibility that necessary functionality will not work properly for 99% of users, I still won't be using it for anything more than animation.
Yet another reason why Flash for application development is just a BAD idea.
I gotta say I agree. After trying to build a modular blogging app in Flash several years ago, I found out just how F'ed up flash is. There is little consistency with the Actionscript language and no DOM for the underlying structure so it requires alot of guesswork in places. Plus poor support of POST variables, SESSIONS and other functionality made me give up entirely.
... but not really. A nice thing is that someone figured out how to make the text searchable by search engines by embedding it in the HTML that holds the flash. Not really a fix since Flash is dynamic and can repop that info without refreshing the HTML.
Mind you that they have overcome some of these issues
To this day, our company only uses it for animation and thats it. Lack of compatibility, lack of functionality and SEO are still major issues with adoption for webpages.
I still love Flash but will never be programming applications in it. I'd rather use PHP GTK before then.
Actually you are still wrong. Microsoft specifically stated that the DRM will make it so that the content plays with a loss of resolution or 'not at all'.
And if you are tired of it, tell them it's a bad idea like everyone else. Hell, why do you think the throngs of people who hate them continue to grow every day?? Do you think it's because they are such a swell bunch of guys with great ideas and products everyone loves? If so then I've got an OS to sell you... and it's 100% secure!!!
Try to be a bit more RELEVANT in your discussion.
v ista_upgrades/)
Fact: DX10 is tied to Vista. Declared by Microsoft.
Fact: Vista requires massive hardware upgrades. DRM monitor, more RAM, new motherboards, high end graphics cards, etc.
Fact: 50% of companies will not upgrade to Vista and another 15% have stated that they never even heard of it. Of the 50%, hal;f of those stated that it would at least be 18 months until after release that they would even consider. (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/02/windows_
Now follow the logic trail if you can...
We can assume that 50% of users will not upgrade and even fewer when you consider they all need to buy new machines and even FEWER when you consider that other consumers haven't even HEARD of Vista!
Now DX10 only runs on VISTA. Any game developed for DX10 will only run on VISTA. Now with above information of the install base, this is your beginning consumer market that you are targetting and only a percentage of the aboce will purchase your game.
In other words, this means that anyone releasing anything for DX10 for the first 18 months after release will have a severely smaller market than those releasing for DX9. As such, DX10 will probably not have any real impact for 2 years or more.
Hence that gives any other alternative like OpenGL, the chance to make up the ground since OpenGL is not tied to any OS or hardware.
Now that I have connected the dots for you, here's hoping your brain can take in the big picture.
And they gear their standards to common architectures rather than brand new requirements forced on manufacturers.
Whats yer point? The current openGL works on my board from 1997 as well as modern boards.
Funny. Didn't have to update my Win98 box to move to Win2k. Just needed more RAM.
Didn't have to update my Win2K to move to XP.
So by all of them... were you talking only Vista or were you merely talking outta your ass?
The difference would be that none of them REQUIRED you to update all your hardware in order to run it. DX10 requires it. Vista requires it. The Monitor DRM requires it.
As such, adoption of DirectX10 may be a long time coming. Sure hardcore gamers will probably get a new machine but most everyone else will wait until at least SP1. Until SP1 is released, alow of manufacturers won't put out games that support DX10 unless they also support DX9 as well. To do elsewise would be to limit their market.
If you look at the list of Members you will also spot Panasonic, Toshiba, Softimage, NCSoft and alot of other heavy hitters.
The fact that Google and Apple are involved gives me hope that people will start making applications for Linux and Macs soon. Also, since DirectX 10 is only available for Vista, this may be the prime time for OpenGL to start stealing some market share.
Wow... I didn't realize it took editor status to recognize the obvious.
No chairs were hurt during the taping of this interview.
Oh by the way, you should mention this to Microsoft who at a stockholders meeting mentioned that Linux had far higher growth than they have for the last 5 years. It would seem even Microsoft thinks you're wrong. :)
Well that would be the same as it is now. Nations due not allow flights to certain countries. Not allowing access to the internet would be quite similar. But the internet would have a greater ability to respond as well en force. Imagine a country with human rights violations suddenly getting blocked from the internet ENTIRELY! The only network they would be able to access would be just within their country.
As a sovereign nation, the internet would have the ability to respond instead of being an idle spectator in actions that affect it. Suspending access to commerce and information can be a tremendous blow in this day and age.
I've often said that the only way you can solve most of the issues revolving around the internet today is to make it a sovereign nation. That way one set of laws, one set of taxes, one set of decency can apply to all thus avoiding lawsuits in a million different countries due to your content.
Hopefully though, an international body can agree to some basic tenets so that we can establish so we can limit trivial laws and lawsuits due to localized laws.
Oh it doesn't huh? So Windows Explorer relying upon IE doesn't count as preloading? Outlook relying on IE doesn't count? All the API's and DLL's that are preloaded on boot so that applications can use IE's underlying structure don't count?
Sorry to tell you friend but that what's known as preloading. And because it's bundled into ever MS app that there is, it HAS to preload so that everything else can work.
Remember, thoise who can, do. Those who can't, bundle.
New Hampshire is an after dinner mint for Galactus. It's wafer thin.
Hate to tell you this but you know that tiny little operating system called Windows that takes up a GIG? Guess what preloads, is built in and cannot be separated from it? If you guessed IE then you win a footprint the size of New Hampshire. Thats right, all those DLL's and API's that have to preload for 5 minutes more than double Firefoxs load. And Firefox can do the same (if you enjoy monlithic load times) so that it can poreload as well.
Aside from that, IE takes twice as long to load a page. We have an office in Manila that had to switch entirely to Firefox because our internal tools took FOREVER to load in IE.
So sorry pal. The old, 30MB footprint vs the GB footprint of a browser/os (yes until they can claim that they are separate, I count them as one) makes Firefox look like Kate Moss next to Jerry Garcia.
Those who can compete, do. Those who can't, bundle.
This is so surprising since Microsoft has a spotless record on security and always puts the end users security above its need to add more bells and whistles.
Profits increasing?? I SO don't think so. Haven't really increased for awhile...
******************
Microsoft's profits slipped to $2.83bn or 28 cents per share from the $3.7bn or 34 cents per share reported last year. Microsoft's operating expenses rose more than 10 per cent, as the company shelled out cash to catch up to Google in the search game and correct product delays.
******************
I dunno but losing one THIRD of your profits in onequarter doesn't seem very good to me. Must be why their stock is tanking...
Uh-oh. Here comes the FUD patrol to tell us how using twice as many Windows servers in order to compete with Linux servers is a good thing. Well we're all ears... please go on. I'd love to hear how while your install base goes down and your product sales go up how this is an improvement.
and yet billions of dollars has not kept them from sucking, getting hacked, getting sued, being fined, stopping users from migrating, etc.
It's amazing that as Linux desktops, Linux server, Open Office, Firefox and Mac desktops continue to gain on them that their stats continue to rise. Too many cooks spoil the books.
I find it interesting that Bill Gates at a recent symposium told Microsoft affiliates that there is a 20% chance that Vista would slip again. Since I live in Seattle, I have friends who are developers over there who swear it will never make the January deadline.
I love it when they are already talking about the new release slipping when they have already made promises through their teeth for the last 3 years.
Considering that Directx 10 is only on VISTA, any game developer launching games for Vista from the get go will probably be very upset when their sales numbers do not make up for development costs.
I think by now, everyone realizes that Microsofts product isn't good until the second or third version and people will wait. As such, games released with Directx will be directly affected by this.