My hostility? Again, seriously dude... have you taken a look at your kettle lately? I'd called that a shade darker than charcoal.
Hostility towards Microsoft is bred due to their practices. Should their practices change, then maybe I will change my opinion. But simply because a couple of their serfs comes by to talk to us does not mean anything has changed. It also does not mean I won't listen.
It does mean that everything they say however it taken with a truckload of salt. And if you think that they have not been briefed on what they can and CAN'T say, then you are only fooling yourself.
Seriously, most sites I pull up in Firefox work just fine. It's those sites that use ActiveX and crap like that which are going to suffer. Besides, Microsoft publicly stated that web users need to turn off activeX to remain safe so nothing really is going to break anyway.
Ok... interesting that you should say this. But I was the web developer at the Microsoft Health Club and I overheard two developers talking about a project they were working on and how they could program it. And one of them turns to the other and says 'To hell with it. Just grab the code straight out of Linux and reformat it. It'll save you a couple of days trying to figure it out yourself.'
No kidding.
I've tried to mention this to others but trying to prove this is apparently extremely difficult without pulling a SCO and no Linux vendor yet wants to take that battle to court I suspect.
Douche? I'm the one with prejudice and yet you call ME a douche for expressing an opinion? Sounds to me like you have your own prejudices to work through Mr Kettle.
No need to call one a douche if you are truly objective. But I would have suspected as much. Notice how I myself do not get hostile even in the face of adversity:)
I once was playing a game in an arcade while waiting for a movie and there was a object collison in the environment which caused a crash. Upon rebooting, I saw it was running Windows MS and it took me to the boot screen.
Soon, toaster, car, phone, and more will get viruses. There has already been reports of ATM's getting viruses and hacked.
Oh... he's going to provide us with 'legitimate answers'? That would nice nice if it were true but I seriously doubt any of the answers will be 'legitimate'; more likely a an answer run through the MS skewed PR spin machine before regurgitated.
Surfing in from a dual boot here where I spend 98% of my time in Fedora. When do I switch to Windows? To play games. It's a glorified X-box with viruses.
Hear hear! I second that. Until Microsoft PROVES that they are playing well with others without having to be cajoled or forced by a government organization, then I will believe it.
Until then, just more marketing bullshit and PR spin. The day they are concerned about interoperability is the day they are planning a product release to replace it.
For an exaqmple, look at how they have often tried to make Samba useless.
Ok, since you are obviously one of the slow kids that fell off the bus, I've done the research for you.
webticketing.avaya.com - ooh... only their entire support system. That doesn't need to scale at all, does it? I mean how many people could they be supporting at once? 15?
global.sprint.com - Looks to be administrative login for global sprint communications. This isn't that important. Global dministrative tools aren't mission critical after all.
jkent.dfw.ibm.com jktv2.dfw.ibm.com jkwcs.dfw.ibm.com jkwcs54.dfw.ibm.com- all of IBM's electronic vendors support. And how many vendors could they have at best... 10? 20?
And because you are too stupid too notice as well, Zend is helping Disney set up their family fun sites. I'm sure all of two people check that out as well.
I could go on but your ability to process anything that proves you wrong is in serious question adn I doubt you would be able to process this anyway.
Do you ever get tired of being wrong, cause I don't get tired of proving you wrong. It's fun to tease the stoopid.:)
1. ah I see your logic (if that's what you call it). If you don't see it, it must me incopnsequential... much like your brain tumor. Again, you manage to ignore the fact that Disney.com is strictly LAMP. And while you didn't do the footwork to track down the others, you immediately disqualify them. Yeah, I'm sure Zend puts up partners who just use PHP for about 5 lines of code... that makes sense. Buy a couple thousand dollars of tools and services for maybe 5 lines of code. I'm sure companies do this all the time. By the way, that's irony in case you didn't notice.
2. Disney.com doesn't serve page? How do you know? Ever heard of redirects? name based virtual hosts? How ignorant are you? And do you honestly think that's their only server besides g0.com? Yeah I'm sure Disney only has two servers... that and go.com and the Linux server ONLY handles redirects... yeah that makes sense.
3. Yeah, this is your five lines of code argument again. Especially when Zend is backed by Oracle and IBM. I'm sure that major backing by tech leaders is causing Disney and Sprint and Avaya and others to only use PHP for a 'hello world' and nothing else.
4. Again, you make the assumption that no pages are served off that server just because one URL redirects? Must be that Disney only has two servers huh? Bet they can't afford more.
5. Again, if ignorance was a bucket of worms, you'd be crawling with them.
So your point is that since they are learning OOP, they shouldn't stick with PHP... because why?
Why is it that because they are now doing OOP, they would need to change? PHP is actually better than JSP in several benchmarks. But Java is better than PHP in handling additional functionallity.
I know that alot of developers want to stick with one language for everything but for web dev, it's not the best decision. Let Javascript handle front-end user interaction, let PHP handle dynamic page generation and form submission and let Java and C/C++ handle everything else.
Some languages do things better than other languages and PHP does dynamic page generation better... but that is it. It can do more but you risk scalability in the process by not separating your processes.
And just because someone learns OOP doesn't mean they should switch languages for development. You use the right tool for the job and if a PHP developer needs more than dynam,ic page generation, I personally would hope that their OOP programming would cause them to bridge a gap to another language for the solution.
Just for the record, I myself am a PHP programmer who learned OOP through PHP and then learned Java as a result. And so now I am for using the right tool for the right job and not one tool for all jobs... but I'm not switching all of my code to java just because I know OOP now; there are some things PHP does better and there are a whole lot of things that Java does better and I use each to my best advantage.
This reminds me of an old story at the Univeristy of Iowa where they moved a computer department into a new building wherein years later they are trying to find a server. It is still serving packets and no one can seem to find it. Suddenly someone realize that it was probably left at the other building years before when they moved. They go over there and are looking around when someone says 'well the server would have been right here where this wall was. On a hunch, they rip open the wall and sure enough, there is the server still serving packets... 4 years later!
Just because they like OOP, it means they should switch to something else? What if they don't want to build desktop apps, programs for watches, cellphones and moon rovers? What if all they want is to server dynamic webpages?
If thats the case then PHP is all they need.
HOWEVER... if they want PHP to do more than that, they should definitely consider letting another language handle that so PHP stays focused and doesn't get bogged down by unnecessary processes which could be moved to another server.
PHP has matured alot since 3.0... just like Java has since it's first launch. If you want to fault a language for evolving to the need of the developer, look first to your favorite language and you will see that it went through the exact same growing pains.
First off, just because they use other tools doesn't mean they don't use PHP, dumbass. What? Do you think that people are as limited in resources as you are in brains. Just because you hand pick servers to show your point doesn't mean that another server out there is strictly LAMP.
Second, you grabbed a completely different URL (the redirect) for Disney. My first one obviously shows that they are running a LAMP architecture. So again I am right. You just happened to have picked a 'go.com' server (which happens to be in Seattle under the MS shadow) and they still run ASP.
Third, check out the Zend.com customers page. Zend only makes one product... PHP. And they proudly list their customers with pictures so even illiterate monkeys like yourself can discern who uses their product.
So again, if www.disney.com, the main portal for disney on the web, is running a lamp architecture and getting millions of ahits a day, how the hell do you figure PHP doesn't scale?
And I truly am amazed at how stupid I am since, I'm STILL right.
I apologize. It wasn't to say that you are a hobbyist (not that there is anything wrong with that... after all the WWW was created by a hobbyist) but that hobbyist are the most common people to make those mistakes.
And now I better understand your post as well. Usually when scalability is mentioned, it is in the context of your application being able to move (in time) from a small business to enterprise level without anything more than hardware upgrades. That is the context that I was understanding 'scalability' in.
But to answer your point in regards of what you meant, yes, PHP doesn't handle that. Was never meant to. That's what other languages are for. PHP focuses on one task and that's dynamic webpage building and while you CAN add modules for it to do other things as well, it is generally best to separate your applications for scalability purposes.
So in this sense (if I'm understanding you properly and this isn't merely an issue with exception handling), it's not really PHP's responsibility to handle that kind of thing and it was never designed to.
Oooh... flamed on thread specifity. Ouch. Truly that stings. You are a master of the wit and a demon with your tongue... or so your mom says.
And actually it's.NET developerws who are paid the least. Haven't you read Microsoft's propaganda? Linux developers cost more and.NET developers cost less.
Guess you picked the wrong horse again, my friend. But that's ok. I'm sure your mom will pay for a few more years of community college.
And that's the only reason people use it because it's popular? well how the hell did it get popular? It must have been good for soemthing to get so popular.
The reason PHP is popular is because it is not a swiss army language; it is good at one thing and does that one thing well... dynamic web pages. Sure you CAN do other stuff with PHP but that would mean making something that won't scale.
Personally, I let PHP handle the dynamic web page building and all othwer functions I pass to other languages. For instance if I want dynamic image generation, sure there is a PHP module for it but then I can't separate that functionallity and my code won't scale so instead I use ImageMagick which is written in C and can be easily moved to another server at a later point in time.
PHP is also good for small to medium web sites as a stand alone (with modules of course). But again, I would only recommend PHP for handling the dynamic generation and population and nothign else; for those things, pass it along to another language or app.
Slashdot Mirror
My hostility? Again, seriously dude... have you taken a look at your kettle lately? I'd called that a shade darker than charcoal.
Hostility towards Microsoft is bred due to their practices. Should their practices change, then maybe I will change my opinion. But simply because a couple of their serfs comes by to talk to us does not mean anything has changed. It also does not mean I won't listen.
It does mean that everything they say however it taken with a truckload of salt. And if you think that they have not been briefed on what they can and CAN'T say, then you are only fooling yourself.
Seriously, most sites I pull up in Firefox work just fine. It's those sites that use ActiveX and crap like that which are going to suffer. Besides, Microsoft publicly stated that web users need to turn off activeX to remain safe so nothing really is going to break anyway.
yep. :)
Ok... interesting that you should say this. But I was the web developer at the Microsoft Health Club and I overheard two developers talking about a project they were working on and how they could program it. And one of them turns to the other and says 'To hell with it. Just grab the code straight out of Linux and reformat it. It'll save you a couple of days trying to figure it out yourself.'
No kidding.
I've tried to mention this to others but trying to prove this is apparently extremely difficult without pulling a SCO and no Linux vendor yet wants to take that battle to court I suspect.
Um...what? Even when you are trying to insult me you make no sense. You must be a VB programmer.
Douche? I'm the one with prejudice and yet you call ME a douche for expressing an opinion? Sounds to me like you have your own prejudices to work through Mr Kettle.
:)
No need to call one a douche if you are truly objective. But I would have suspected as much. Notice how I myself do not get hostile even in the face of adversity
Respect my Zen, baby.
I once was playing a game in an arcade while waiting for a movie and there was a object collison in the environment which caused a crash. Upon rebooting, I saw it was running Windows MS and it took me to the boot screen.
Soon, toaster, car, phone, and more will get viruses. There has already been reports of ATM's getting viruses and hacked.
Oh... he's going to provide us with 'legitimate answers'? That would nice nice if it were true but I seriously doubt any of the answers will be 'legitimate'; more likely a an answer run through the MS skewed PR spin machine before regurgitated.
Hey... truths hurt. Reboot your XP box and deal.
Surfing in from a dual boot here where I spend 98% of my time in Fedora. When do I switch to Windows? To play games. It's a glorified X-box with viruses.
I think I can see a spot on Bill Gates ass that you haven't kissed yet. Are you fresh out of lip gloss or just taking a breather to remoisten?
Hear hear! I second that. Until Microsoft PROVES that they are playing well with others without having to be cajoled or forced by a government organization, then I will believe it.
Until then, just more marketing bullshit and PR spin. The day they are concerned about interoperability is the day they are planning a product release to replace it.
For an exaqmple, look at how they have often tried to make Samba useless.
Ok, since you are obviously one of the slow kids that fell off the bus, I've done the research for you.
:)
webticketing.avaya.com - ooh... only their entire support system. That doesn't need to scale at all, does it? I mean how many people could they be supporting at once? 15?
global.sprint.com - Looks to be administrative login for global sprint communications. This isn't that important. Global dministrative tools aren't mission critical after all.
jkent.dfw.ibm.com
jktv2.dfw.ibm.com
jkwcs.dfw.ibm.com
jkwcs54.dfw.ibm.com- all of IBM's electronic vendors support. And how many vendors could they have at best... 10? 20?
And because you are too stupid too notice as well, Zend is helping Disney set up their family fun sites. I'm sure all of two people check that out as well.
I could go on but your ability to process anything that proves you wrong is in serious question adn I doubt you would be able to process this anyway.
Do you ever get tired of being wrong, cause I don't get tired of proving you wrong. It's fun to tease the stoopid.
Country and western? No, I don't sleep with my cousin.
1. ah I see your logic (if that's what you call it). If you don't see it, it must me incopnsequential... much like your brain tumor. Again, you manage to ignore the fact that Disney.com is strictly LAMP. And while you didn't do the footwork to track down the others, you immediately disqualify them. Yeah, I'm sure Zend puts up partners who just use PHP for about 5 lines of code... that makes sense. Buy a couple thousand dollars of tools and services for maybe 5 lines of code. I'm sure companies do this all the time. By the way, that's irony in case you didn't notice.
2. Disney.com doesn't serve page? How do you know? Ever heard of redirects? name based virtual hosts? How ignorant are you? And do you honestly think that's their only server besides g0.com? Yeah I'm sure Disney only has two servers... that and go.com and the Linux server ONLY handles redirects... yeah that makes sense.
3. Yeah, this is your five lines of code argument again. Especially when Zend is backed by Oracle and IBM. I'm sure that major backing by tech leaders is causing Disney and Sprint and Avaya and others to only use PHP for a 'hello world' and nothing else.
4. Again, you make the assumption that no pages are served off that server just because one URL redirects? Must be that Disney only has two servers huh? Bet they can't afford more.
5. Again, if ignorance was a bucket of worms, you'd be crawling with them.
So your point is that since they are learning OOP, they shouldn't stick with PHP... because why?
Why is it that because they are now doing OOP, they would need to change? PHP is actually better than JSP in several benchmarks. But Java is better than PHP in handling additional functionallity.
I know that alot of developers want to stick with one language for everything but for web dev, it's not the best decision. Let Javascript handle front-end user interaction, let PHP handle dynamic page generation and form submission and let Java and C/C++ handle everything else.
Some languages do things better than other languages and PHP does dynamic page generation better... but that is it. It can do more but you risk scalability in the process by not separating your processes.
And just because someone learns OOP doesn't mean they should switch languages for development. You use the right tool for the job and if a PHP developer needs more than dynam,ic page generation, I personally would hope that their OOP programming would cause them to bridge a gap to another language for the solution.
Just for the record, I myself am a PHP programmer who learned OOP through PHP and then learned Java as a result. And so now I am for using the right tool for the right job and not one tool for all jobs... but I'm not switching all of my code to java just because I know OOP now; there are some things PHP does better and there are a whole lot of things that Java does better and I use each to my best advantage.
Well until I see it on Snopes, I'm taking is as truth since I heard it from a friend back in 1993 who was on site for the unveiling.
This reminds me of an old story at the Univeristy of Iowa where they moved a computer department into a new building wherein years later they are trying to find a server. It is still serving packets and no one can seem to find it. Suddenly someone realize that it was probably left at the other building years before when they moved. They go over there and are looking around when someone says 'well the server would have been right here where this wall was. On a hunch, they rip open the wall and sure enough, there is the server still serving packets... 4 years later!
Just because they like OOP, it means they should switch to something else? What if they don't want to build desktop apps, programs for watches, cellphones and moon rovers? What if all they want is to server dynamic webpages?
If thats the case then PHP is all they need.
HOWEVER... if they want PHP to do more than that, they should definitely consider letting another language handle that so PHP stays focused and doesn't get bogged down by unnecessary processes which could be moved to another server.
PHP has matured alot since 3.0... just like Java has since it's first launch. If you want to fault a language for evolving to the need of the developer, look first to your favorite language and you will see that it went through the exact same growing pains.
Omigod! LOL.
First off, just because they use other tools doesn't mean they don't use PHP, dumbass. What? Do you think that people are as limited in resources as you are in brains. Just because you hand pick servers to show your point doesn't mean that another server out there is strictly LAMP.
Second, you grabbed a completely different URL (the redirect) for Disney. My first one obviously shows that they are running a LAMP architecture. So again I am right. You just happened to have picked a 'go.com' server (which happens to be in Seattle under the MS shadow) and they still run ASP.
Third, check out the Zend.com customers page. Zend only makes one product... PHP. And they proudly list their customers with pictures so even illiterate monkeys like yourself can discern who uses their product.
So again, if www.disney.com, the main portal for disney on the web, is running a lamp architecture and getting millions of ahits a day, how the hell do you figure PHP doesn't scale?
And I truly am amazed at how stupid I am since, I'm STILL right.
I apologize. It wasn't to say that you are a hobbyist (not that there is anything wrong with that... after all the WWW was created by a hobbyist) but that hobbyist are the most common people to make those mistakes.
And now I better understand your post as well. Usually when scalability is mentioned, it is in the context of your application being able to move (in time) from a small business to enterprise level without anything more than hardware upgrades. That is the context that I was understanding 'scalability' in.
But to answer your point in regards of what you meant, yes, PHP doesn't handle that. Was never meant to. That's what other languages are for. PHP focuses on one task and that's dynamic webpage building and while you CAN add modules for it to do other things as well, it is generally best to separate your applications for scalability purposes.
So in this sense (if I'm understanding you properly and this isn't merely an issue with exception handling), it's not really PHP's responsibility to handle that kind of thing and it was never designed to.
Again, sorry if I offended.
Oooh... flamed on thread specifity. Ouch. Truly that stings. You are a master of the wit and a demon with your tongue... or so your mom says.
.NET developerws who are paid the least. Haven't you read Microsoft's propaganda? Linux developers cost more and .NET developers cost less.
And actually it's
Guess you picked the wrong horse again, my friend. But that's ok. I'm sure your mom will pay for a few more years of community college.
Really? ASP on Redhat Linux running Apache??/ /www.disney.com
http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http:
Also try checking out Zend.com's website to sell who is running enterprise level PHP installations.
You'd be amazed to know how wrong you are.
And that's the only reason people use it because it's popular? well how the hell did it get popular? It must have been good for soemthing to get so popular.
The reason PHP is popular is because it is not a swiss army language; it is good at one thing and does that one thing well... dynamic web pages. Sure you CAN do other stuff with PHP but that would mean making something that won't scale.
Personally, I let PHP handle the dynamic web page building and all othwer functions I pass to other languages. For instance if I want dynamic image generation, sure there is a PHP module for it but then I can't separate that functionallity and my code won't scale so instead I use ImageMagick which is written in C and can be easily moved to another server at a later point in time.
PHP is also good for small to medium web sites as a stand alone (with modules of course). But again, I would only recommend PHP for handling the dynamic generation and population and nothign else; for those things, pass it along to another language or app.
And what does that have to do with how right I was and how wrong you were about C# not being compiled? Hmmm?
Ever notice how stupid people like yourself often like to open their uninformed mouths?