Excellent points.. certainly don't see anything I could disagree with (damnit!)
Your points on Satire are certainly valid... I would question the author's unbiasedness but in all fairness it is just guesswork as I don't have an Xbox sitting here.
I really don't have an issue with the game.. the Parent post (not mine) was concerned with quality of the game as much as content. It was mentioned that this was 'war' and we are fighting on our own terms. I disagree with it.. but if this is war, I don't think satire is a good battleplan:P
[Note to the people who think this is plain microsoft bashing: it is not. This game is totally symmetrical, there is no advantage of playing tux over playing clippy, and it pokes fun at both sides.]
You say read the article. I say to you, "Read the link." =)
Actually I did read the link.. I didn't catch the comment you posted (thanks btw:) but I don't think it changes things. I would contend that a game is what you make of it... what the players do with it. Consider the players... users who went to the trouble to actually mod their system and install a Linux System on it. I have a free OS on every box in my house but I'm certainly not hardcore enough to put it on a console. You have the choice between Tux and Clippy... which do you think a hardcore linux user is going to choose? Point being.. does it even matter if the game pokes fun of linux equally if that isn't the side the players bother with?
Also.. if it makes a difference.. the site certainly doesn't protray itself as equal to me... maybe if it had a screenshot from 'the other side' I'd be more willing to accept it.
While calling names (E.G. "Micro$oft Winblows" or "GPL is a cancer and anti-American") is pointless, it's understandable. Microsoft made bad software. That's fact. These days, while their software is better (IMO), they're making direct attacks on Linux and the GPL and spreading FUD.
From Microsoft's point of view, Linux is something it can't buy-out or under-cut. Marketing and legal issues are it's only weapons. They feel threatened, and the GPL goes against what they feel makes America great (so I assume anyway). Sure they'll throw out some mud.
Both sides are guilty.
And I see no reason to drop to their level. Or remain there if that's the case. Both sides are guilty... but two wrongs don't make a right. I think it's already been proven we can't beat them at their game... I also think it's been proven we don't have to play their game.
However, while Ballmer insults Linux, he spends the rest of his time trying to put more control in the hands of Microsoft. While Joe Linux insults Microsoft, he's out there writing free software.
I wish this were the case.. but it isn't. Joe Linux can't write software any better then Joe Windows.. this is why we call him Joe:) It's been a long time since one could assume the average linux user was a programmer. At best they know a tiny bit of perl.. at worst, well hey.. you don't need to know much to install a linux system these days.. isn't that the point?
I believe Wizard is correct, you don't need the iso, only the packages you want. At the very least I'm sure you could leave out full package sets (./slackware/kde) if not individual packages. I do like having the iso though.. if nothing else it makes a handy rescue disk for systems with bootable cdroms:)
My big problem with the NFS is compatablity. Last I checked (which was a while back.. please correct me if I'm wrong) you could only get NFS on Windows with a paid addon. Ok.. so maybe Slack isn't the best Linux System to start with.. but I hate the idea it can't be done. Inconvienent at best, limiting and incompatable at worse.
Incidentily.. I was always under the impression this was done to save bandwidth not waste it. If anon ftp is an option there is no reason for someone with a fast connection not to install directly. But then if they want to install on another computer.. or maybe a reinstall (maybe I'm a gimp.. but I've never been satisified with my first install on any distro) then they d/l again. Forcing people to d/l the files directly preinstall ensures one d/l per user (not per computer or install).. which saves bandwidth. In hindsight I imagine you could get anonftp access (for compatablity reasons) without allowing users to install off the 'real' ftp sites.
Besides, I'm sure these thigns can be improved. Is it free source as well as being freely available?
*sigh* I know nobody reads the stories.. but damn.. you could at least read the header... says clearly 'This game is free (as in beer)'. That means.. nope... the source isn't freely available.
As for the war analogy... I hardly see how yetanother make fun of MS game is going to help. I tend to agree with the parent.. it makes the community look cheap and childish.
And MS didn't start it.. if I remember correctly MS was doing pretty well before this upstart linux ever showed up in the first place.
But it does prove a point.. your topic that is. 'MS started this'... iow.. 'they did it!!! it's their fault!!'. This to me reeks of recess.
Now, I wanted to try Slack when I got an old laptop a month or so ago, but I couldn't find an easy way to do a network install with a PCMCIA network card and no cd-rom.
The most straight forward way is going to take a lost of disks with version 8.1 (the main root disk is now 5 disks instead of 1.. serious bummer!) but shouldn't be that hard.
First.. it is going to have to be NFS.. unfortunately this is the only network install Slack recognizes.. so be sure ya got that Deb box ready.
Now head to the rootdisks dir. I don't seem to have this on the 8.1 iso so try the ftp. You need a boot disk (likely bare.i, this is of course in another dir;), the 5 install.x files (these are your 'root' disks.. used to be color.gz) the network.dsk and the pcmcia.dsk (both in the above dir along with install.x). Ok.. so 7 disks.. try to find some floppies that aren't screwy and dd/rawrite those suckers over...
Install from here is easy. Boot up with bare.i and the 5 installs. You'll be at a root prompt. At this point you can load your pcmcia and network drivers by typing simple commands displayed in the MOTD. I've never used the former but with network it's as easy as typing network and then either allowing it to probe or if you know what you got you can head to tty2 and modprobe it yourself. The commands mount the disks you made (network.dsk and pcmica.dsk). Very simple really.. only worries up till now are bad floppies:)
At this point it should be straight forward... once you got your pcmica/network drivers loaded you can continue with install as normal. Mount the cd in your main box and setup a simple NFS... bam happy Slackware installation:)
Hope this helps in some way... if you need any more feel free to email me (anotherlamenick@yahoo.ILOVEPAT.com).
Ok.. for one.. just to say.. fighting over these is stupid... but you know that.. just want to agree with you and get on with it:)
I think Slack's big advantage over all other popular distros is it's simplicity. The nice sexy init, the easy to edit/etc files. This is not a dis against RH but I think that to anybody who takes a gander at all the setup files involved it's obvious that if you prefer hand editing your config files to other options Slack is VERY friendly in that regard. Deb configs seem friendlier to me then RH.. but nothing beats the straight forwardness of the Slack configs.
Size. In a help chat I heard someone about to try Slack ask where the 2nd cd was... 'only 1 cd? How does Slack get away with 1 when every other (major) distro uses 2 or more?' My response.. 'Funny, I always wondered how every other distro got away with 2+ cds when Slack works so well with 1'. I think this is a BIG DEAL. What should come on a distro and what should not? Personaly I like nice slim installs. Anybody who's installed Slack knows damn well you can get a fully working distro on one cd AND have plenty of programs you don't want on it. My debian install wanted CD2 just to install the console mouse server. Knowing there isn't 2 or 3 cds worth of extras I'll have to sort through is a big plus to me.
Updating. And this is the clincher. Ok.. so yea.. no apt-get. But I think people make this seem a lot worse then it is. Is hopping on an ftp and upgradepkg * really that hard? Some would say its not automated enough.. But then.. some would say it's perfect. I know what gets updated... every single package. And yes.. I WANT to know. But even if I didn't... a) it just isn't as hard as people make it out to be and b) it doesn't require any setup (you can spend hours in dselect to automate something that never took much time and maybe shouldn't be automated anyway. Yes.. going from distro to distro isn't as easy as it could be... but I hardly see such a move to be taken so lightly as to be typed in one command (although that is an option I envy).
So in the end.. I install Slack.. no cd flipping, a lot less sorting through crap.. setup scripts that are amazingly easy to comprehend. Nab that patch directory and I'm secure and updated... head to current if I want more. Updating mulitple computers is as easy as apt-get... excepting you have to d/l the files by hand (or you could automate it.. if it's worth your time).
Ask yourself.. what do you want out your Linux install.. a working system ready for installation of choice software... or a system with everything and the kitchen sink installed whether you want it or not. Yes... you can make any distro fit the former.. but never so easily as you can with Slackware. For users/admins who want to know what's on their system.. what is not.. and don't want any surprises... Slack is the way.
And that's my $0.02... if you haven't tried Slack yet DO IT. Listen not to the naysayers.. if you can cfdisk/fdisk then you can get it running.. no sweat. And if you have any problems just email me:) (anotherlamenick@yahoo.ILOVEPAT.com) (and to finish.. all distros have pluses and minuses... try them all!)
You know.. I've never bought the GNU/Linux crap (although I think it is easily as correct as Linux.. personally I prefer 'Linux System' but that is neither here nor there).
The real Linus vs. FSF issue is freedom... and it seems obvious to me that at least sometimes rms is right.
I think the big problem here is the narrowing of focus in the linux community. Yes.. Linus is 'the man'.. yes he is crucial to what we have. But he is not the only source. Do we really want a benign dictator? Not I... beit Linus or rms...
Posts like this are the exact reason rms takes the stand he does. Like it or not... it isn't hard to argue that rms is the single most important person in the developments that brought each and every one of us the choice of Freedom. Worship him? Make him god? no.. but don't forget... the man deserves a tiny bit of credit here...
As for where Linux should go... Linus decides this as much as Bill Gates does... the industry decides the direction... Linux just tries to stay on the road.
Slashdot Mirror
Excellent points.. certainly don't see anything I could disagree with (damnit!)
:P
:)
Your points on Satire are certainly valid... I would question the author's unbiasedness but in all fairness it is just guesswork as I don't have an Xbox sitting here.
I really don't have an issue with the game.. the Parent post (not mine) was concerned with quality of the game as much as content. It was mentioned that this was 'war' and we are fighting on our own terms. I disagree with it.. but if this is war, I don't think satire is a good battleplan
Thanks for the comments
Actually I did read the link.. I didn't catch the comment you posted (thanks btw
Also.. if it makes a difference.. the site certainly doesn't protray itself as equal to me... maybe if it had a screenshot from 'the other side' I'd be more willing to accept it.
And I see no reason to drop to their level. Or remain there if that's the case. Both sides are guilty... but two wrongs don't make a right. I think it's already been proven we can't beat them at their game... I also think it's been proven we don't have to play their game.
I wish this were the case.. but it isn't. Joe Linux can't write software any better then Joe Windows.. this is why we call him Joe
I believe Wizard is correct, you don't need the iso, only the packages you want. At the very least I'm sure you could leave out full package sets (./slackware/kde) if not individual packages. I do like having the iso though.. if nothing else it makes a handy rescue disk for systems with bootable cdroms :)
My big problem with the NFS is compatablity. Last I checked (which was a while back.. please correct me if I'm wrong) you could only get NFS on Windows with a paid addon. Ok.. so maybe Slack isn't the best Linux System to start with.. but I hate the idea it can't be done. Inconvienent at best, limiting and incompatable at worse.
Incidentily.. I was always under the impression this was done to save bandwidth not waste it. If anon ftp is an option there is no reason for someone with a fast connection not to install directly. But then if they want to install on another computer.. or maybe a reinstall (maybe I'm a gimp.. but I've never been satisified with my first install on any distro) then they d/l again. Forcing people to d/l the files directly preinstall ensures one d/l per user (not per computer or install).. which saves bandwidth. In hindsight I imagine you could get anonftp access (for compatablity reasons) without allowing users to install off the 'real' ftp sites.
Besides, I'm sure these thigns can be improved. Is it free source as well as being freely available?
*sigh*
I know nobody reads the stories.. but damn.. you could at least read the header... says clearly 'This game is free (as in beer)'. That means.. nope... the source isn't freely available.
As for the war analogy... I hardly see how yetanother make fun of MS game is going to help. I tend to agree with the parent.. it makes the community look cheap and childish.
And MS didn't start it.. if I remember correctly MS was doing pretty well before this upstart linux ever showed up in the first place.
But it does prove a point.. your topic that is. 'MS started this'... iow.. 'they did it!!! it's their fault!!'. This to me reeks of recess.
Now, I wanted to try Slack when I got an old laptop a month or so ago, but I couldn't find an easy way to do a network install with a PCMCIA network card and no cd-rom.
;), the 5 install.x files (these are your 'root' disks.. used to be color.gz) the network.dsk and the pcmcia.dsk (both in the above dir along with install.x). Ok.. so 7 disks.. try to find some floppies that aren't screwy and dd/rawrite those suckers over...
:)
:)
The most straight forward way is going to take a lost of disks with version 8.1 (the main root disk is now 5 disks instead of 1.. serious bummer!) but shouldn't be that hard.
First.. it is going to have to be NFS.. unfortunately this is the only network install Slack recognizes.. so be sure ya got that Deb box ready.
Now head to the rootdisks dir. I don't seem to have this on the 8.1 iso so try the ftp. You need a boot disk (likely bare.i, this is of course in another dir
Install from here is easy. Boot up with bare.i and the 5 installs. You'll be at a root prompt. At this point you can load your pcmcia and network drivers by typing simple commands displayed in the MOTD. I've never used the former but with network it's as easy as typing network and then either allowing it to probe or if you know what you got you can head to tty2 and modprobe it yourself. The commands mount the disks you made (network.dsk and pcmica.dsk). Very simple really.. only worries up till now are bad floppies
At this point it should be straight forward... once you got your pcmica/network drivers loaded you can continue with install as normal. Mount the cd in your main box and setup a simple NFS... bam happy Slackware installation
Hope this helps in some way... if you need any more feel free to email me (anotherlamenick@yahoo.ILOVEPAT.com).
Slack vs Deb (Slack!)
:)
/etc files. This is not a dis against RH but I think that to anybody who takes a gander at all the setup files involved it's obvious that if you prefer hand editing your config files to other options Slack is VERY friendly in that regard. Deb configs seem friendlier to me then RH.. but nothing beats the straight forwardness of the Slack configs.
... if you haven't tried Slack yet DO IT. Listen not to the naysayers.. if you can cfdisk/fdisk then you can get it running.. no sweat. And if you have any problems just email me :) (anotherlamenick@yahoo.ILOVEPAT.com) (and to finish.. all distros have pluses and minuses... try them all!)
Ok.. for one.. just to say.. fighting over these is stupid... but you know that.. just want to agree with you and get on with it
I think Slack's big advantage over all other popular distros is it's simplicity. The nice sexy init, the easy to edit
Size. In a help chat I heard someone about to try Slack ask where the 2nd cd was... 'only 1 cd? How does Slack get away with 1 when every other (major) distro uses 2 or more?' My response.. 'Funny, I always wondered how every other distro got away with 2+ cds when Slack works so well with 1'. I think this is a BIG DEAL. What should come on a distro and what should not? Personaly I like nice slim installs. Anybody who's installed Slack knows damn well you can get a fully working distro on one cd AND have plenty of programs you don't want on it. My debian install wanted CD2 just to install the console mouse server. Knowing there isn't 2 or 3 cds worth of extras I'll have to sort through is a big plus to me.
Updating. And this is the clincher. Ok.. so yea.. no apt-get. But I think people make this seem a lot worse then it is. Is hopping on an ftp and upgradepkg * really that hard? Some would say its not automated enough.. But then.. some would say it's perfect. I know what gets updated... every single package. And yes.. I WANT to know. But even if I didn't... a) it just isn't as hard as people make it out to be and b) it doesn't require any setup (you can spend hours in dselect to automate something that never took much time and maybe shouldn't be automated anyway. Yes.. going from distro to distro isn't as easy as it could be... but I hardly see such a move to be taken so lightly as to be typed in one command (although that is an option I envy).
So in the end.. I install Slack.. no cd flipping, a lot less sorting through crap.. setup scripts that are amazingly easy to comprehend. Nab that patch directory and I'm secure and updated... head to current if I want more. Updating mulitple computers is as easy as apt-get... excepting you have to d/l the files by hand (or you could automate it.. if it's worth your time).
Ask yourself.. what do you want out your Linux install.. a working system ready for installation of choice software... or a system with everything and the kitchen sink installed whether you want it or not. Yes... you can make any distro fit the former.. but never so easily as you can with Slackware. For users/admins who want to know what's on their system.. what is not.. and don't want any surprises... Slack is the way.
And that's my $0.02
You know.. I've never bought the GNU/Linux crap (although I think it is easily as correct as Linux.. personally I prefer 'Linux System' but that is neither here nor there).
The real Linus vs. FSF issue is freedom... and it seems obvious to me that at least sometimes rms is right.
I think the big problem here is the narrowing of focus in the linux community. Yes.. Linus is 'the man'.. yes he is crucial to what we have. But he is not the only source. Do we really want a benign dictator? Not I... beit Linus or rms...
Posts like this are the exact reason rms takes the stand he does. Like it or not... it isn't hard to argue that rms is the single most important person in the developments that brought each and every one of us the choice of Freedom. Worship him? Make him god? no.. but don't forget... the man deserves a tiny bit of credit here...
As for where Linux should go... Linus decides this as much as Bill Gates does... the industry decides the direction... Linux just tries to stay on the road.
Shhh... almost sounds like you're saying rms was right... :)
/. community at large is even aware of this..
:)
God forbid... linux is a wonderful thing... and GNU/Linux is an ugly name... but damnit... that long haired hippie has something to BELIEVE IN.
It all started somewhere.... sometimes I wonder if the
(note to parent... obviously this isn't really directed at you... but thanks for the springboard