There's no such thing as "VM/VMS", IBM's product is VM, and Compaq owns VMS. VM is an operating system all unto itself. It comes with CP, the Control Program that provides virtualized images of system 390 architecture, and handles hardware interrupt conflicts. You logon to the "CP" prompt. The only "native" OS that runs on CP is CMS, Conversational Montitor System, formerly Cambridge Monitor System. Within CMS one can created/edit files. CP provides the transport mechanism between virtual machines, so put together you have what appears to be a LAN of independant machines, but within one physical box.
In a way, "VM" doesn't exist because there is only CP + CMS.
OS/390 = MVS, not VM. There are two very different operating systems.
MVS can run native on S/390 hardware, or under VM in a virtual machine. So can Linux. VM normally adds a very trivial amount of overhead, less than 2 percent when running MVS. However, Linux tends to lock the CPU for many tasks, so Linux running native on S/390 is not the best environment. Running Linux under VM allows thousands (depending on model of S/390) of copies, so the "wasted" CPU time doesn't matter anymore as each CPU is only virtual anyway.
Multiple instances of Linux running under VM on S/390 h/w communicating locally via "virtual" TCP/IP within direct memory transfer and transferring data between devices over ESCON (fibre optic) will take over the world!
Each application must be owned by a manager who is responsible for delivery, and will be billed at the end of each month for having the staff on call, pager, telephone, and onsite support. The costs will come out of their monthly budget, which they will have to justify to their management.
That should cut down on the number of "critical" applications! And, it pays for the support group, which should not be a cost-center, but operate as a profit-center, with product that is "sold" internally.
...and you have only incapacitated your enemy's fighting forces when you have exhausted their ability to replace them; Their economy.
One might argue that after all the build up of nuclear power since the 50's, and after all the intelligence that was expended and lives lost for the sake of the cold war, the USSR fell to "economic warfare". The country with the most money left, wins.
You are correct, a hack of the NYSE wouldn't harm US Military effectiveness at all. But, cyberwarfare isn't about military might (how would you know where to send the troops/missiles?), it's about your service surviving an attack.
Anyway, I think the point is rather moot; any node of sufficient importance has a disaster recovery plan in place, if not "resonable" security policies too. Cyberwarfare (hacking servers) can inflict an inconvenience on the enemy, but it's the information that should be protected (hence the fear of releasing 128-bit to the world), and since there's no such thing as 100% security (with the exception of that perverbial buried system encased in cement), we can be pretty sure that anything we know (and post) is known to all.
So, we're back to conventional warfare, with the balance of power dictated by "who can afford the most/best weapons".
It's always occured to me that, in a war, the country/party that runs out of funds first, loses. Thus, the objective of war isn't to (per se) do as much physical damage as you are capable of inflicting, it's to cause just enough damage that the "enemy" is unable to recover financially.
This suggests, in this time of cyber-warfare that we live in, that attacking a stock market or other primary financial institution is the most effective means of accomplishing your goal. Much more damage would be accomplished by taking the NY Stock Exchange offline for a couple of days, than an attempt to attack of the "food supply" (which be up and running again within hours from backup tapes, or replacement hardware).
I see no mention of this financial aspect of war in the article, yet it seems the most vulnerable in my mind.
IBM employs about 300,000 worldwide. They all need at least one computer. That computer requires an image. Most of the world uses Win95 and IBM communicates (shares files) a LOT with the rest of the world (customers). Most applications only run on Windows. Most corporations run Win95, which is (soon to be?) not supported. IBM is in negotiations to upgrade (purchase a 300,000-user license). Micro$oft hates (any) competition. Micro$oft will do anything in its power (including price fixing) to destroy competition. I don't think I need to go on.
Here is a a copy of link that's posted later in this thread. Hope it helps.
I had to learn IBM SAA/CUA in order to create a text-based mainframe interface that emulated OS/2 1.3 back in '89. It was not only a learning experience, and fun, but a real eye opener! The CUA standard covers it all; text, GUI, mouse, keyboard. If adhered to during interface development, it makes it so easy to add voice, thought-control, whatever!
Good point; OS/2 has "died" the same death as Netscape, because of pressure from M$. I'm still running it (both, in fact). The only application that I know of that won't run on it is Visio, and even that belongs to M$ now.
So, powers-that-be, what does this tell you about antitrust activity?
"Competition everywhere" indeed.
Well, at least the internal helpdesk still supports it... for now.
Oh, that's too bad. This dual-speed PCMCIA CD-ROM drive that I have was a "throw away" around here, as is all "old" (> 1 year old) technology. My newer CD-ROM drive is hot-pluggable into the Ultrabay.
$15-20 might just get you enough diskettes to copy from the Warp CD, as several other appends have suggested. Not to worry, many others have been there before you. I just hope that you get it right the first time (ALWAYS install plain-old VGA support, then upgrade afterward) so you don't have to do it again, and again, and again.
If you can't boot the thing because of a video problem, remember; Alt+F1 at the "boot blob" (.... OS/2) to get your recovery menu, where anything can be fixed, given enough knowledge.
>ALL MICROSOFT SOFWARE DOES THIS. >Most windows applications (all i used) do this....those that don't prolly have old unix programmers Oh, that is just SO untrue! All Microsoft software does NOTHING (in common). I can think of no standard thing about Windows or any application running on it. Every app that I (am forced to) use on Win is a new learning experience. Sometimes the "Apply" is there, and sometimes it's not. Sometimes you have to press it first, and sometimes merely OK will suffice. Most times, they only crash in very similar fashion (entire system frozen). Ya no wot? It's as if MS is full of free-spirited programmers who have no prior knowledge of GUI's, and no documentation at all to go by. They just re-invent a GUI for their own app, like those Linux freeware guys; every new whiz-bang idea is thrown in to improve the experience, but in no standard way. I'm all for improvement, but PLEASE stick to standards/conventions where the user experience is concerned. S/W Development Rule #1: Minimize changes that affect what the user sees and how they act. The migration from Win3 to Win95 blew that rule out of the water! Gimme OS/2 and the WPS; with left hand on keyboard and right hand on mouse, I'll out-perform ANY user activity on any other user/platform! With my eyes closed!
Feasible? Yes. Will it run? Yes, but very slowly! Doable? Depends on your knowledge. I can trim OS/2 down to 90MB including a full WPS. Can you? Floppies? About 45 of them for Warp 4. Can you not procure a PCMCIA CD-ROM drive? I have a dual-speed sitting beside me. Does your laptop even have PCMCIA?
Functional? Barely. Although I'm a HUGE OS/2 fan, I recommend you install Linux via FTP! Got an Enternet card and a cable modem?
CIBC indeed uses OS/2, for the most part in branches anyway. There's a lot of Win95 at head orifice. The branches use it because it works, and they don't want the overhead of support personnel at the branches across the country. Those terminals running elsewhere are MVS boxen running CICS. That's doable from Win95 too, but not very reliably. CIBC also relies on Lotus Notes on Warp Server, and SystemView on Warp to remotely take-over all those Warp Servers in the back office of the branches. I know, I implemented the pilot.
I don't think the bank will be too pleased about replacing all those boxes with MS cr*p.
I will do the best I can... [1] It seems to use the same type of shell as NT..i.e. a command shell. Command-shell? What ever gave you that impression? There are at least three ways of doing anything in OS/2; take your pick. NT is a kluge from OS/2, but made badly and Win3.1-like. Just where do you think they got the NT kernel from? Mmmmm??? [2] It seems to have a DOS-like command set. True. Most people know it. It's a 32-bit, multi-tasking, multi-threaded DOS. Wot's wrong with that? [3] It has a windows like GUI..more Win95/NT like than 98 but nothing like X. You obviously saw Win first, then OS/2. It's the other way around. See 1) above. [4] does it even have remote administration ? I saw no such thing. It's single-user, i.e. a "client". It has "System Configuration". So? [5] Its interface leaves much to be desired (kludgy win/dos hack were the first impression i got..followed by...what the heck do these weird buttons do?) Ouch! Actually, if you get used to the "button-1 selects, button-2 acts" thing, it's absolutely great! Remember, Win3.1 was the only thing going at the time, and MS wouldn't share then Win32 API ("I'm taking my ball and going home!"). What weird buttons? Generally, they're labeled, and at least we don't have to "Apply" before we "OK".
OS/2 is not a viable business model, we know that. I'm posting from Warp4 (merely because I happen to be here), and still recall buying (for CDN$200 of my own money), my copy of 2.0 to replace Win3.1 which came with my 486 and was crashing on the CanadaPhone CD because of memory mis-management.
If they open-source it, do you think it would fly then? Probably not. Linux has taken up that target audience. Although, it sure would teach a lot of people about proper device and memory management! You just GOTTA see the page algorithms and task dispatcher! Right out of the Big Iron manuals!
The "OS/2 client" is now Workspace On Demand, and works very nicely as a thin-client on an OS/2 Warp5 Server, thank you very much.
BWP appeals and is frightening to those with imagination. It's not what you see and hear that scares you, it's what you don't see and hear. You see enough to know that the characters are scared, and that's enough for some. Kids love it. Adults who haven't lost their sense of adventure love it. Those who have "grown up" beyond their childhood quest for (and fear of) the unknown don't like it. Not enough blood and gore for a "horror" flick.
So, before seeing it, ask yourself if you have an imagination or not.
Download in 36 hours? Is that what it takes over a modem? If so, certainly a deterant. I've never had an ISP that maintained a connection that long.
I use a cable-modem (@Home) to install Red Hat via FTP. On a good night, it takes slightly longer than a CD-ROM install. However, I DO gernally purchase the boxed-set! And, I have done so the last three releases. I'm a newbie, and like to have the manual and CD. As long as it's part of my job, I'll continue to pay for it.
I wonder how MS thinks it can dance around calling Red Hat (Linux) a competitor, while at the same time saying that they didn't block Netscape marketing channels because anyone can download it.
On second thought, I know how. Arrogance. They think they can have their cake and eat it too. They've always re-invented history to suit their spin. A glowing tribute to the personality of The Man in charge.
So, you are in fact running Lotus Domino in "Glorified Email Server" mode?
That's a shame, since Notes can truly be understood and appreciated only when used to its fullest, as a generic database container and presentation system, which just happened to be used first to develop an Email application.
I too yearn for the day when I can blow away, forever, my unreliable Whendoze partition.
The Canadian Armed Forces have canceled a project to boil the ocean in an attempt to bring enemy submarines to the surface that they might be more easily spotted by their (sole) reconisance plane.
Proud to be a Canadian, with an English sense of humour. Really, I'm glad about the decision, but just how they would attempt such a thing is beyond me.
Heh Heh. That's funny. My opinion in this is that the only people who believe this media hype about Doom & Internet resulting in violence, would be granny. My impression is that the world has grown up enough to realize the Internet just makes things easier; good and bad. And that the media hasn't quite grown up as much yet, still pushing that angle. I don't know anyone who feels the same way as the media. What do you think? Exclude: my mother (73), email's & surf's regularly.
Slashdot Mirror
There's no such thing as "VM/VMS", IBM's product is VM, and Compaq owns VMS. VM is an operating system all unto itself. It comes with CP, the Control Program that provides virtualized images of system 390 architecture, and handles hardware interrupt conflicts. You logon to the "CP" prompt. The only "native" OS that runs on CP is CMS, Conversational Montitor System, formerly Cambridge Monitor System. Within CMS one can created/edit files. CP provides the transport mechanism between virtual machines, so put together you have what appears to be a LAN of independant machines, but within one physical box.
In a way, "VM" doesn't exist because there is only CP + CMS.
OS/390 = MVS, not VM. There are two very different operating systems.
MVS can run native on S/390 hardware, or under VM in a virtual machine. So can Linux. VM normally adds a very trivial amount of overhead, less than 2 percent when running MVS. However, Linux tends to lock the CPU for many tasks, so Linux running native on S/390 is not the best environment. Running Linux under VM allows thousands (depending on model of S/390) of copies, so the "wasted" CPU time doesn't matter anymore as each CPU is only virtual anyway.
Multiple instances of Linux running under VM on S/390 h/w communicating locally via "virtual" TCP/IP within direct memory transfer and transferring data between devices over ESCON (fibre optic) will take over the world!
Each application must be owned by a manager who is responsible for delivery, and will be billed at the end of each month for having the staff on call, pager, telephone, and onsite support. The costs will come out of their monthly budget, which they will have to justify to their management. That should cut down on the number of "critical" applications! And, it pays for the support group, which should not be a cost-center, but operate as a profit-center, with product that is "sold" internally.
...and BG proclaims, "I told you so! I told you so! It's all YOU GUYS fault!"
One might argue that after all the build up of nuclear power since the 50's, and after all the intelligence that was expended and lives lost for the sake of the cold war, the USSR fell to "economic warfare". The country with the most money left, wins.
You are correct, a hack of the NYSE wouldn't harm US Military effectiveness at all. But, cyberwarfare isn't about military might (how would you know where to send the troops/missiles?), it's about your service surviving an attack.
Anyway, I think the point is rather moot; any node of sufficient importance has a disaster recovery plan in place, if not "resonable" security policies too. Cyberwarfare (hacking servers) can inflict an inconvenience on the enemy, but it's the information that should be protected (hence the fear of releasing 128-bit to the world), and since there's no such thing as 100% security (with the exception of that perverbial buried system encased in cement), we can be pretty sure that anything we know (and post) is known to all.
So, we're back to conventional warfare, with the balance of power dictated by "who can afford the most/best weapons".
It's always occured to me that, in a war, the country/party that runs out of funds first, loses. Thus, the objective of war isn't to (per se) do as much physical damage as you are capable of inflicting, it's to cause just enough damage that the "enemy" is unable to recover financially.
This suggests, in this time of cyber-warfare that we live in, that attacking a stock market or other primary financial institution is the most effective means of accomplishing your goal. Much more damage would be accomplished by taking the NY Stock Exchange offline for a couple of days, than an attempt to attack of the "food supply" (which be up and running again within hours from backup tapes, or replacement hardware).
I see no mention of this financial aspect of war in the article, yet it seems the most vulnerable in my mind.
OS/2 Warp Desktop Tour; Index
OS/2 Warp Desktop Tour; Index
Allow me to take a stab at this...
IBM employs about 300,000 worldwide.
They all need at least one computer.
That computer requires an image.
Most of the world uses Win95 and IBM communicates (shares files) a LOT with the rest of the world (customers).
Most applications only run on Windows.
Most corporations run Win95, which is (soon to be?) not supported.
IBM is in negotiations to upgrade (purchase a 300,000-user license).
Micro$oft hates (any) competition.
Micro$oft will do anything in its power (including price fixing) to destroy competition.
I don't think I need to go on.
I had to learn IBM SAA/CUA in order to create a text-based mainframe interface that emulated OS/2 1.3 back in '89. It was not only a learning experience, and fun, but a real eye opener! The CUA standard covers it all; text, GUI, mouse, keyboard. If adhered to during interface development, it makes it so easy to add voice, thought-control, whatever!
So, powers-that-be, what does this tell you about antitrust activity?
"Competition everywhere" indeed.
Well, at least the internal helpdesk still supports it... for now.
Wish we saw more testimonials like that.
? /pdocs-usa/softupd.html
Yes, upgrading 2.x was painful.
Wanna see something REALLY neat? I don't know what your Internet speed is like, but you just HAVE to check out RSU (service to Warp4) at this site;
http://ps.boulder.ibm.com/pbin-usa-ps/getobj.pl
Apply service to all components, without a single diskette or CD. Live from the Internet, and a single (automatic) re-boot at the end!
Would that Linux reaches this level of sophistication some day!
Oh, that's too bad. This dual-speed PCMCIA CD-ROM drive that I have was a "throw away" around here, as is all "old" (> 1 year old) technology. My newer CD-ROM drive is hot-pluggable into the Ultrabay.
$15-20 might just get you enough diskettes to copy from the Warp CD, as several other appends have suggested. Not to worry, many others have been there before you. I just hope that you get it right the first time (ALWAYS install plain-old VGA support, then upgrade afterward) so you don't have to do it again, and again, and again.
If you can't boot the thing because of a video problem, remember; Alt+F1 at the "boot blob" (.... OS/2) to get your recovery menu, where anything can be fixed, given enough knowledge.
Oh c'mon!
OS/2 by itself may not be a "business model", but have you ever tried to sell it to a friend?
Would you start a company that sold OS/2 as its primary source of income?
IBM does not consider the development of the OS/2 client to be a profitable undertaking.
Would you disagree?
Linux may not be a good car, but helps a good car to make!
As a matter of fact, try this:
Two very experiended users; one OS/2 (any version) and one Windows (95 or later).
Each has their mouse die, pointer frozen, click does nothing.
Ask each to save data, close all apps, shutdown normally.
Who wins! Now that's proper implementation of a GUI!
>ALL MICROSOFT SOFWARE DOES THIS. >Most windows applications (all i used) do this....those that don't prolly have old unix programmers Oh, that is just SO untrue! All Microsoft software does NOTHING (in common). I can think of no standard thing about Windows or any application running on it. Every app that I (am forced to) use on Win is a new learning experience. Sometimes the "Apply" is there, and sometimes it's not. Sometimes you have to press it first, and sometimes merely OK will suffice. Most times, they only crash in very similar fashion (entire system frozen). Ya no wot? It's as if MS is full of free-spirited programmers who have no prior knowledge of GUI's, and no documentation at all to go by. They just re-invent a GUI for their own app, like those Linux freeware guys; every new whiz-bang idea is thrown in to improve the experience, but in no standard way. I'm all for improvement, but PLEASE stick to standards/conventions where the user experience is concerned. S/W Development Rule #1: Minimize changes that affect what the user sees and how they act. The migration from Win3 to Win95 blew that rule out of the water! Gimme OS/2 and the WPS; with left hand on keyboard and right hand on mouse, I'll out-perform ANY user activity on any other user/platform! With my eyes closed!
Feasible? Yes.
Will it run? Yes, but very slowly!
Doable? Depends on your knowledge. I can trim OS/2 down to 90MB including a full WPS. Can you?
Floppies? About 45 of them for Warp 4. Can you not procure a PCMCIA CD-ROM drive? I have a dual-speed sitting beside me. Does your laptop even have PCMCIA?
Functional? Barely. Although I'm a HUGE OS/2 fan, I recommend you install Linux via FTP! Got an Enternet card and a cable modem?
CIBC indeed uses OS/2, for the most part in branches anyway. There's a lot of Win95 at head orifice. The branches use it because it works, and they don't want the overhead of support personnel at the branches across the country. Those terminals running elsewhere are MVS boxen running CICS. That's doable from Win95 too, but not very reliably. CIBC also relies on Lotus Notes on Warp Server, and SystemView on Warp to remotely take-over all those Warp Servers in the back office of the branches. I know, I implemented the pilot.
I don't think the bank will be too pleased about replacing all those boxes with MS cr*p.
I will do the best I can...
[1] It seems to use the same type of shell as NT..i.e. a command shell.
Command-shell? What ever gave you that impression? There are at least three ways of doing anything in OS/2; take your pick. NT is a kluge from OS/2, but made badly and Win3.1-like. Just where do you think they got the NT kernel from? Mmmmm???
[2] It seems to have a DOS-like command set.
True. Most people know it. It's a 32-bit, multi-tasking, multi-threaded DOS. Wot's wrong with that?
[3] It has a windows like GUI..more Win95/NT like than 98 but nothing like X.
You obviously saw Win first, then OS/2. It's the other way around. See 1) above.
[4] does it even have remote administration ? I saw no such thing.
It's single-user, i.e. a "client". It has "System Configuration". So?
[5] Its interface leaves much to be desired (kludgy win/dos hack were the first impression i got..followed
by...what the heck do these weird buttons do?)
Ouch! Actually, if you get used to the "button-1 selects, button-2 acts" thing, it's absolutely great! Remember, Win3.1 was the only thing going at the time, and MS wouldn't share then Win32 API ("I'm taking my ball and going home!"). What weird buttons? Generally, they're labeled, and at least we don't have to "Apply" before we "OK".
>Presentation Manager still has (IMHO) the best OOUI out there.
Right on Bro! Attention all you GUI developers... if you haven't used and learned PM, then you don't know sh*t about REAL Object Oriented GUI's!
OS/2 is not a viable business model, we know that. I'm posting from Warp4 (merely because I happen to be here), and still recall buying (for CDN$200 of my own money), my copy of 2.0 to replace Win3.1 which came with my 486 and was crashing on the CanadaPhone CD because of memory mis-management.
If they open-source it, do you think it would fly then? Probably not. Linux has taken up that target audience. Although, it sure would teach a lot of people about proper device and memory management! You just GOTTA see the page algorithms and task dispatcher! Right out of the Big Iron manuals!
The "OS/2 client" is now Workspace On Demand, and works very nicely as a thin-client on an OS/2 Warp5 Server, thank you very much.
Long Live Linux!
BWP appeals and is frightening to those with imagination. It's not what you see and hear that scares you, it's what you don't see and hear. You see enough to know that the characters are scared, and that's enough for some. Kids love it. Adults who haven't lost their sense of adventure love it. Those who have "grown up" beyond their childhood quest for (and fear of) the unknown don't like it. Not enough blood and gore for a "horror" flick.
So, before seeing it, ask yourself if you have an imagination or not.
Download in 36 hours? Is that what it takes over a modem? If so, certainly a deterant. I've never had an ISP that maintained a connection that long.
I use a cable-modem (@Home) to install Red Hat via FTP. On a good night, it takes slightly longer than a CD-ROM install. However, I DO gernally purchase the boxed-set! And, I have done so the last three releases. I'm a newbie, and like to have the manual and CD. As long as it's part of my job, I'll continue to pay for it.
I wonder how MS thinks it can dance around calling Red Hat (Linux) a competitor, while at the same time saying that they didn't block Netscape marketing channels because anyone can download it.
On second thought, I know how. Arrogance. They think they can have their cake and eat it too. They've always re-invented history to suit their spin. A glowing tribute to the personality of The Man in charge.
So, you are in fact running Lotus Domino in "Glorified Email Server" mode?
That's a shame, since Notes can truly be understood and appreciated only when used to its fullest, as a generic database container and presentation system, which just happened to be used first to develop an Email application.
I too yearn for the day when I can blow away, forever, my unreliable Whendoze partition.
The Canadian Armed Forces have canceled a project to boil the ocean in an attempt to bring enemy submarines to the surface that they might be more easily spotted by their (sole) reconisance plane.
Proud to be a Canadian, with an English sense of humour. Really, I'm glad about the decision, but just how they would attempt such a thing is beyond me.
Heh Heh. That's funny.
My opinion in this is that the only people who believe this media hype about Doom & Internet resulting in violence, would be granny. My impression is that the world has grown up enough to realize the Internet just makes things easier; good and bad. And that the media hasn't quite grown up as much yet, still pushing that angle.
I don't know anyone who feels the same way as the media. What do you think?
Exclude: my mother (73), email's & surf's regularly.