The health care idea was a variant on a plan promoted by a Republican who was elected governor of the most reliably liberal state in the union. That is a long, long way from being a conservative idea.
It may be a long long way from "conservative" but its a long long long long long way from any reasonable definition of liberal/socialist/left idea.
Why not do both?
Record and then after you can tweet all you want.
Does this guy have a 140 character limit on his brain? Even if your phone is stolen you can still tweet about it later, and tweet about your stolen phone too.
Historically, the United States works quite well with a lower tax scheme - somewhere between 15% and 19% of GNP, and seems best around 18%. Every percentage point above 19, and the economy starts hurting. Every percentage point below 15, and we start having to cut essential services. Remember that "taxes" includes Federal and state and city-level taxes.
Hand-waving nonsense.
Where did those taxes come from, states, business, sectors, rich, poor, consumption, sales?
Where was the money spent, infrastructure, education, wars, pork, healthcare?
These things are far more important than the percentage amount of revenue raised.
Who paid it and how was it spent?
When the evidence was destroyed from those two crash sites, questions become doubled. The FAA, Military, etc.. have never gone in and cleaned up debris without an investigation. Look at how long the crashed plane sat on the runway in SF for example. They build tents around the debris and investigate, they photograph and analyze. Whereas at the Pentagon and PA, they had people walking around picking up pieces the same day and tossing them into trucks for immediate disposal.
If you want to find out how a plane crashed, what exact part failed, in what exact way, for what exact reason etc.
You need to do the detailed analysis.
How much analysis do you need to realise, "plane crashing into the pentagon" caused said plane to stop working.
Pick up the pieces and get on with your life.
(Good idea after most terrorist situations by the way)
The spenders didn't lose it, the receivers lost it, and they couldn't spend it on other things, so those receivers lost also etc etc.
Some of that spending will show up again. If I need a TV and don't buy one I still need a TV. But if I don't go to lunch on my work lunch break, Im not going to go 2 weeks later and buy 10 lunches to make up for it.
The TV shop's money is delayed a little, but the Lunchshop's money is gone. Also the whole supply chain that goes into making lunch loses money also, as well as the workers/owners of the lunchshop. And anyone that would have recieved that money from them or their suppliers also recieves less. (and on and on in diminishing amounts).
All this lost money would have been taxed at some stage and now wont. That is why the government lost the money as well as the economy suffering, (you did notice GDP forecasts were lowered as well.) Lower GDP lower tax revenues.
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
That's a nice long list. Slight problem: not only did we get health insurance reform instead of health care reform,
And of course we all know, health insurance reform has no change whatsoever on peoples health care .
Except for people who now get healthcare, people who get cheaper health care etc.
but what we ended up with was a Republican plan to start with.
That just makes the situation worse.
It shows that the republicans were never really against the plan. Just against the government and the economy, to try and score cheap political points and appease some teabaggers.
By spending that money in the economy. Creating demand, supporting businesses.
Causing those businesses to invest and grow their business, make more profits hire more workers and pay more taxes.
This business, its extra workers, its suppliers,their extra workers also create more demand and incentive for yet more growth and investment.All of which pay more taxes
etc.
Or American style, they could use their proof of a regular income to take out loans buy houses get credit cards and do all those previous things turbo charged and on steroids. (When the house prices go up they can then refinance and spend yet more still.)
Or they could take their paycheque leverage it and invest in anything profitable, stocks/bonds/derivatives/etc. and pay extra taxes on the profits
Or they could get lucky and gamble their way to fortune, daytrading, online poker.
You mean all that work that was so important that it was deemed non-essential?
Non-essential isn't the same as zero.
Even Breathing isn't essential for a couple minutes.
And yet safe food and drugs were still being produced, shipped, and sold.
Not all safe (salmonella),and that's just 1 example we found now,its too early to tell with the rest as they are still in the supply chain.
So this was all a job creation program for scientists, you're saying? After all, they can look forward to redoing all that work. Sounds just about as effective as the previous economic stimuli to me!
So now you want the government to spend/waste extra money? I thought you wanted to put the breaks on spending.
Congratulations! You have correctly absorbed the media's message on this fiasco:
Government shutdown
Democrats in Senate and Democrat President refuse to negotiate
So...It's all the Tea Party Republicans' fault.
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We are going to shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We will fight to the death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We are going to elect a candidate who will immediately revoke healthcare."
June 2012: "We will go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "The American people will never re-elect you, because they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you just got re-elected and that we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 40 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart ealthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"
Oct 2013: "Why are you blaming us for the shutdown?"
So the elected "team" you like the least, had enough "votes" to enact their "health whatever".
The "team" you like the second least are trying every trick in the book to mess it up for them, (so they can say "I told you so") including holding the country to ransom and possibly destabilising the whole planet.
And your point is what exactly?
The discussion was about who is to blame, you jumped in and went off on a wild tangent about the changes being bad. (I agree completely btw.)
Are you trying to deflect attention away from "team stupid" and onto "team useless"?
Who do you think is to blame for the current situation?
And what can be done about it?
healthcare: n. The prevention, treatment, and management of illness and the preservation of mental and physical well-being through the services offered by the medical and allied health professions.
My dictionary is fine.
Even IF the things you claim are true, it's still obviously about healthcare.
If your team felt so strongly about all these consequences of healthcare reform, they should have done a better job of negotiating before it became a law, or could have even came up with a counter proposal and had people vote on it at an election or something.
The obvious solution to all your concerns would have been a single payer system that covers everyone, but your guys wanted this instead.
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We are going to shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We will fight to the death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We are going to elect a candidate who will immediately revoke healthcare."
June 2012: "We will go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "The American people will never re-elect you, because they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you just got re-elected and that we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."
OK sorry, didn't see that bit.
Still, if you have weighed up the risk and benefit, and realise that vaccinations are good. Why not want as many people as possible to have them?
Do you know any young, old, immunosuppressed people, or anyone allergic to the vaccine?
Wouldn't you want them to have the best chance of not catching deadly diseases because people who could be vaccinated were?
Why should irrational people who cant judge for themselves get to opt out and not do the right thing for society as a whole?
Isn't it more like a fad of irrational people jumping on the bandwagon because its fashionable, and choosing to remain unvaccinated?
Slashdot Mirror
The health care idea was a variant on a plan promoted by a Republican who was elected governor of the most reliably liberal state in the union. That is a long, long way from being a conservative idea.
It may be a long long way from "conservative" but its a long long long long long way from any reasonable definition of liberal/socialist/left idea.
Why not do both?
Record and then after you can tweet all you want.
Does this guy have a 140 character limit on his brain? Even if your phone is stolen you can still tweet about it later, and tweet about your stolen phone too.
Historically, the United States works quite well with a lower tax scheme - somewhere between 15% and 19% of GNP, and seems best around 18%. Every percentage point above 19, and the economy starts hurting. Every percentage point below 15, and we start having to cut essential services. Remember that "taxes" includes Federal and state and city-level taxes.
Hand-waving nonsense.
Where did those taxes come from, states, business, sectors, rich, poor, consumption, sales?
Where was the money spent, infrastructure, education, wars, pork, healthcare?
These things are far more important than the percentage amount of revenue raised.
Who paid it and how was it spent?
When the evidence was destroyed from those two crash sites, questions become doubled. The FAA, Military, etc.. have never gone in and cleaned up debris without an investigation. Look at how long the crashed plane sat on the runway in SF for example. They build tents around the debris and investigate, they photograph and analyze. Whereas at the Pentagon and PA, they had people walking around picking up pieces the same day and tossing them into trucks for immediate disposal.
If you want to find out how a plane crashed, what exact part failed, in what exact way, for what exact reason etc.
You need to do the detailed analysis.
How much analysis do you need to realise, "plane crashing into the pentagon" caused said plane to stop working.
Pick up the pieces and get on with your life.
(Good idea after most terrorist situations by the way)
The spenders didn't lose it, the receivers lost it, and they couldn't spend it on other things, so those receivers lost also etc etc.
Some of that spending will show up again. If I need a TV and don't buy one I still need a TV. But if I don't go to lunch on my work lunch break, Im not going to go 2 weeks later and buy 10 lunches to make up for it.
The TV shop's money is delayed a little, but the Lunchshop's money is gone. Also the whole supply chain that goes into making lunch loses money also, as well as the workers/owners of the lunchshop. And anyone that would have recieved that money from them or their suppliers also recieves less. (and on and on in diminishing amounts).
All this lost money would have been taxed at some stage and now wont. That is why the government lost the money as well as the economy suffering, (you did notice GDP forecasts were lowered as well.) Lower GDP lower tax revenues.
In my country, 20% of my income goes to health care, and everyone finds it normal. It's the Americans that are weird.
Wow! You should really move to the US and save some money!
Until you get sick....
Lets hope you saved enough.
That's a nice long list. Slight problem: not only did we get health insurance reform instead of health care reform,
And of course we all know, health insurance reform has no change whatsoever on peoples health care .
Except for people who now get healthcare, people who get cheaper health care etc.
but what we ended up with was a Republican plan to start with.
That just makes the situation worse.
It shows that the republicans were never really against the plan. Just against the government and the economy, to try and score cheap political points and appease some teabaggers.
how could they ?
By spending that money in the economy. Creating demand, supporting businesses. ,their extra workers also create more demand and incentive for yet more growth and investment.All of which pay more taxes
Causing those businesses to invest and grow their business, make more profits hire more workers and pay more taxes.
This business, its extra workers, its suppliers
etc.
Or American style, they could use their proof of a regular income to take out loans buy houses get credit cards and do all those previous things turbo charged and on steroids. (When the house prices go up they can then refinance and spend yet more still.)
Or they could take their paycheque leverage it and invest in anything profitable, stocks/bonds/derivatives/etc. and pay extra taxes on the profits
Or they could get lucky and gamble their way to fortune, daytrading, online poker.
I'm sure there are more ways.
I think the problem we are facing is a lack of good leadership.
My thoughts exactly, If only Boehner had shown some leadership in reigning in the teabagger faction of his party none of this would have happened.
You mean all that work that was so important that it was deemed non-essential?
Non-essential isn't the same as zero.
Even Breathing isn't essential for a couple minutes.
And yet safe food and drugs were still being produced, shipped, and sold.
Not all safe (salmonella),and that's just 1 example we found now,its too early to tell with the rest as they are still in the supply chain.
So this was all a job creation program for scientists, you're saying? After all, they can look forward to redoing all that work. Sounds just about as effective as the previous economic stimuli to me!
So now you want the government to spend/waste extra money? I thought you wanted to put the breaks on spending.
Congratulations! You have correctly absorbed the media's message on this fiasco:
Government shutdown Democrats in Senate and Democrat President refuse to negotiate So...It's all the Tea Party Republicans' fault.
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We are going to shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We will fight to the death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We are going to elect a candidate who will immediately revoke healthcare."
June 2012: "We will go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "The American people will never re-elect you, because they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you just got re-elected and that we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 40 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart ealthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"
Oct 2013: "Why are you blaming us for the shutdown?"
See any logical flaws here?
No. did you?
Can we assume you will give the same consideration to the current situation.
The economy was in the shitter thanks to "you know who".
The debt went up because tax revenues decreased and entitlements increased.
So the elected "team" you like the least, had enough "votes" to enact their "health whatever".
The "team" you like the second least are trying every trick in the book to mess it up for them, (so they can say "I told you so") including holding the country to ransom and possibly destabilising the whole planet.
And your point is what exactly?
The discussion was about who is to blame, you jumped in and went off on a wild tangent about the changes being bad. (I agree completely btw.)
Are you trying to deflect attention away from "team stupid" and onto "team useless"?
Who do you think is to blame for the current situation?
And what can be done about it?
I don't have a "team" either.
healthcare: n. The prevention, treatment, and management of illness and the preservation of mental and physical well-being through the services offered by the medical and allied health professions.
My dictionary is fine.
Even IF the things you claim are true, it's still obviously about healthcare.
If your team felt so strongly about all these consequences of healthcare reform, they should have done a better job of negotiating before it became a law, or could have even came up with a counter proposal and had people vote on it at an election or something.
The obvious solution to all your concerns would have been a single payer system that covers everyone, but your guys wanted this instead.
Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We are going to shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We will fight to the death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We are going to elect a candidate who will immediately revoke healthcare."
June 2012: "We will go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "The American people will never re-elect you, because they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you just got re-elected and that we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."
Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."
Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"
OK sorry, didn't see that bit.
Still, if you have weighed up the risk and benefit, and realise that vaccinations are good. Why not want as many people as possible to have them?
Do you know any young, old, immunosuppressed people, or anyone allergic to the vaccine?
Wouldn't you want them to have the best chance of not catching deadly diseases because people who could be vaccinated were?
Why should irrational people who cant judge for themselves get to opt out and not do the right thing for society as a whole? Isn't it more like a fad of irrational people jumping on the bandwagon because its fashionable, and choosing to remain unvaccinated?
Because, as has previously been mentioned numerous times already.
Not everybody can.
But everybody who can should.
The age is undefined, but revolves around an ability to UNDERSTAND the issues of the medication, and is largely assumed to be around 13 years old.
Although in some cases people never seem to UNDERSTAND....
How old are you again?
You and people like you are a disease. I wish there was a vaccination for /that/.
It wouldn't help you.
You don't take vaccinations remember...