On what issues? Since many people are voting for the "lesser of two evils," there are many issues where these people don't represent them at all. You can't call them representatives if people only vote for them because they think the other guy would be 'more evil.'
Whether the American people are at fault is irrelevant to the question of whether or not these people are truly representing the American people, and they aren't.
I do not think the claim was the argument is invalid, it was I don't want to hear it until you practice it yourself. A bit of a big difference if you look at it.
Which often is intended as a tu quoque argument, even if not in this case. Still an irrelevant point, though.
Actually, it does in this case because the article is about the US government and what it is doing to the US citizens. So if you are complaining about what someone does to a foreigner, then you are off topic.
In that case, that person is off topic, too. But it's not really off topic, as this mentions the NSA metadata program.
You are absolutely right. Now excuse me, I have to light one up and tell the young'ns not to smoke ever- because it's bad for you. While I'm at it, I think I'll chug a 6 pack and have the talk about alcohol being bad too.
I'm not sure his point was that everyone was doing it so it was ok, I think it was more to clean up your own backyard first, then bitch about mine.
Tu quoque is a fallacy, so it doesn't make much of a difference. People's arguments aren't invalid even if they appear to be hypocrites.
We are all guilty of 'spying' for one reason or another in pursuit of our own self interests and it appears to me to be a pretty mild form of miss-behavin'
A government spying on innocent citizens is an egregious violation of civil liberties.
My money is on the bet that no U.S. laws were broken
Since the US constitution is the highest law of the land, US laws were undoubtedly broken.
no civil cases will be filed and nothing will come of it
There are already court cases going on.
Why waste so much energy on this issue when there are so many REAL privacy issues
The government collecting data on all of its citizens and other innocent people is a real privacy issue; this is something that affects you in much worse ways than having your credit card data copied: It affects your rights, and it opens you up to be abused by the government in the future if you do something that they disapprove of.
How many negative commentors on this forum are US citizens?
I'm one.
But the country one resides in has nothing to do with whether or not your argument has any validity.
For those of you who aren't US citizens, I would suggest that when your country quits spying on the U.S., then the US should quit spying on your country (and certainly vice-versa if you think your country is so noble).
"Everybody else is doing it!" is no excuse. Nice try.
IF you are a US citizen concerned about your privacy, then get off your butt and figure out who to sue (and for what) or who to press criminal charges against (and for what), go do one or both
How do you know they aren't? A number of people are already doing so.
but in any case, quit this paranoid posturing everytime this subject comes up.
False? You linked to a page that states the opinions of a few judges. Anyone even slightly intelligent knows that the government was never meant to be able to outsource its spying to corporations, so this is a clear violation of the spirit of the fourth amendment.
Voting for the lesser of two evils only ensures that evil will continue to reign. Suck it up and try to find someone who isn't evil; at least you'll send a message.
All that means is that most Americans and foreigners are idiots, not that these things are okay or constitutional. If those polls exist and are accurate, that is.
But if any 9/11 type attack hits, then we'll unload on the government for being incompetent muckety mucks who can't blow their nose with a box of kleenexes in front of them.
When did that happen? When 9/11 happened, I was criticizing the actions of the government for taking advantage of people's stupidity and curtailing our civil liberties.
You authoritarians seem to think it's even remotely acceptable to toss out principles and fundamental liberties in the name of safety, but that is simply not the case.
Slashdot Mirror
Just hit 46. Guess I still haven't grown up.
No, they do represent the American people.
On what issues? Since many people are voting for the "lesser of two evils," there are many issues where these people don't represent them at all. You can't call them representatives if people only vote for them because they think the other guy would be 'more evil.'
Whether the American people are at fault is irrelevant to the question of whether or not these people are truly representing the American people, and they aren't.
I do not think the claim was the argument is invalid, it was I don't want to hear it until you practice it yourself. A bit of a big difference if you look at it.
Which often is intended as a tu quoque argument, even if not in this case. Still an irrelevant point, though.
Actually, it does in this case because the article is about the US government and what it is doing to the US citizens. So if you are complaining about what someone does to a foreigner, then you are off topic.
In that case, that person is off topic, too. But it's not really off topic, as this mentions the NSA metadata program.
You are absolutely right. Now excuse me, I have to light one up and tell the young'ns not to smoke ever- because it's bad for you. While I'm at it, I think I'll chug a 6 pack and have the talk about alcohol being bad too.
I'm not sure his point was that everyone was doing it so it was ok, I think it was more to clean up your own backyard first, then bitch about mine.
Tu quoque is a fallacy, so it doesn't make much of a difference. People's arguments aren't invalid even if they appear to be hypocrites.
We are all guilty of 'spying' for one reason or another in pursuit of our own self interests and it appears to me to be a pretty mild form of miss-behavin'
A government spying on innocent citizens is an egregious violation of civil liberties.
My money is on the bet that no U.S. laws were broken
Since the US constitution is the highest law of the land, US laws were undoubtedly broken.
no civil cases will be filed and nothing will come of it
There are already court cases going on.
Why waste so much energy on this issue when there are so many REAL privacy issues
The government collecting data on all of its citizens and other innocent people is a real privacy issue; this is something that affects you in much worse ways than having your credit card data copied: It affects your rights, and it opens you up to be abused by the government in the future if you do something that they disapprove of.
How many negative commentors on this forum are US citizens?
I'm one.
But the country one resides in has nothing to do with whether or not your argument has any validity.
For those of you who aren't US citizens, I would suggest that when your country quits spying on the U.S., then the US should quit spying on your country (and certainly vice-versa if you think your country is so noble).
"Everybody else is doing it!" is no excuse. Nice try.
IF you are a US citizen concerned about your privacy, then get off your butt and figure out who to sue (and for what) or who to press criminal charges against (and for what), go do one or both
How do you know they aren't? A number of people are already doing so.
but in any case, quit this paranoid posturing everytime this subject comes up.
It's far from paranoid.
She dislikes the proles, like 99.99999999% of politicians.
False? You linked to a page that states the opinions of a few judges. Anyone even slightly intelligent knows that the government was never meant to be able to outsource its spying to corporations, so this is a clear violation of the spirit of the fourth amendment.
Voting for the lesser of two evils only ensures that evil will continue to reign. Suck it up and try to find someone who isn't evil; at least you'll send a message.
All that means is that most Americans and foreigners are idiots, not that these things are okay or constitutional. If those polls exist and are accurate, that is.
But if any 9/11 type attack hits, then we'll unload on the government for being incompetent muckety mucks who can't blow their nose with a box of kleenexes in front of them.
When did that happen? When 9/11 happened, I was criticizing the actions of the government for taking advantage of people's stupidity and curtailing our civil liberties.
You authoritarians seem to think it's even remotely acceptable to toss out principles and fundamental liberties in the name of safety, but that is simply not the case.