Find the person who owns the server you got it from, and throw them in jail.
The whole construction of Freenet is such that this is supposed to be impossible. Even if they somehow miraculously found the computer using some high-power traffic analysis, the data on that computer would be encrypted. Even the owner of the computer would not generally be able to decrypt the information. So there'd be no evidence.
Gee, if they can't decrypt it, then how can anyone? LOL, everyone's putting un-decipherable files on freenet? What use is it then?
I would tend to agree w/ your second argument though.
Nobody knows this guy, the application was just announced out of the blue on the freenet developer mailing list. I'm not sure I can trust this app unless he releases the source code.
From the FAQ:
"As FreeWeb's structure settles down, as bugs get eliminated, and as the author cleans up the code (and makes it as intelligible and organised as possible (it's a bit of a mess presently))), source will definitely be released - initially, subsystems of FreeWeb, then ultimately the entire software suite.
I'm sure the comfort of having the source code will more than make up for the mess.
If my memory serves me correctly (and it often does NOT), your statement is not quite correct. I think Gnutella was originally created by Justin Frankel (of Winamp fame). He worked for AOL at the time, but it never an AOL project.
Because Napster has a little entity called "Napster, Inc." running it. It's (unfortunately) much easier to sue Napster, Inc. than it is to go after hundreds of ISP's.
Well Gnutella was spawned by an AOL company. Wait, AOL-TimeWarner. Well I guess the real answer is that they'd have to sue themselves.
Freenet, by it's very nature, is private. If all you do is pass keys around to a small group of people, the MPAA/RIAA isn't going to do anything. However, if you put up a web page with keys to copyrighted material, they are going to shut you down.
ROFL.. you obviously havn't seen the problems w/ all of these free website (geocities, etc.). Hundreds of them are created every day for these sorts of purposes (although they get shutdown fast... but more still pop up in their place). Those pages are a dime a dozen (err.. less actually)... if they get shutdown, nobody cares.
Let's don't forget newsgroups and IRC bots hosting searchable lists of keys. ICQ/AIM groups, etc.,etc. Yep, their gonna stop that.
Freenet may not be a direct alternative to napster/gnutella but that's what it's going to become. If you can't see that, maybe you should open your eyes a little wider. It's right there in front of your face.
I'm amazed that people who constantly claim that no copy protection cannot be hacked still feel that they can come up with a technical solution that will completely protect them from being sued for copyright infringement. Talk about hubris.
LOL.. I was thinking the exact opposite. The people who think it can be stopped are ignorant.
If you can spoof an IP and successfully transfer a movie file *FROM* the spoofed address, please let me know how.. we could re-implement the idea and do it intentionally...
Like they are going to spend the time downloading each movie they see. LOL.
Bob: But IP's can be spoofed. Meet my expert witness...
Do I understand that in this example Bob is a millionair Gnutella user? How else can he afford to defend a case against the MPAA to the point of being able to present expert witnesses?
LOL... yeah, like there's not a zillion ambulance chasing lawyers out there just waiting to sink their claws into the movie/records industry.
Just imagine the countless hours tracking and prosecuting this type of stuff just to make the smallest dent. Then think about all of the lawsuits for defamation of character, etc. that they will recieve for not really having any real proof (I.E. IP spoofing, etc.).
Next they are going to have to hit all of the fserve users in IRC (goodluck) and then they are going to have to contend w/ FreeNet (going to need even more luck).
Nutmeg itself isn't all that great but if you really want to flip out, take about 20 grams (yes, that's a lot) and stuff them in horse capsules and swallow all of them. After you start feeling a little drowsy, take a few hits of acid. You'll peak for about 10 hours and trip for about another 24-36 hours. It's weird, after 12-24 hours, you can actually sleep and then wake up still tripping.
Nutmeg actually has some of the precursors to making MDMA (ecstasy). It's related in a lot of ways to the same benzene ring family that most psychedelic amphetamines come from including Peyote (yes, peyote is a psychedelic amphetamine).
If you really want more information, check out this book by Alexander Shulgin, PIHKAL (Phenethylamine I Have Known and Loved). Alexander Shulgin has probably synthesized and tested more psychedelics than any other chemist.
Okay, so its just my cynical rant because I got a badly managed and coded project..;-P
You know, I have a theory about why there is so much bad perl code out there. I believe it's usually a first language. Newcomers have no idea what it's like to manage someone else's code much less organize large projects. Until that can be experienced, there's no real incentive to keep the code clean.
The other half of it is just a bunch of twisted, sadistic wierdo's;)
Okay we can go into the theres 9,000,000 ways to do it argument here if you want but I dont see large corporations hinging their products on Perl. In Java, or C++ there is OWTDI not TIMTOWTDI;)
Really? Hmm.. I work for a world wide Networking/Communications company with 160,000+ employees and we use Perl a lot.
You're right that they don't hinge all of their products on it but I don't think that's what Perl is meant for. It's all about the right tool for the right job.
Im only going to stick to the theoretical here but I have found some Perl code that simly defies common sense in production level and quality code. These little 5 lines of code that consist of the bulk of a COMPLEX order processing routine are just non sense to debug. That is like a hiehgt of mismanaged and ill-thought programming. Perl allows this so much easier than most languages. Say you can write bad code in any langauge and your right. Say you can right the most incomprehensible nonsense in Perl and your even more right!
I understand that Perl's flexibility allows for problems. With flexibility comes the need for responsibility and common sense. It's really not Perl's fault. I'd rather have that flexibility when I need it rather than have it stripped away. That's one of the main reasons I use Perl more than Java. Again, they both have their place when used responsibly (is this starting to sound like a beer commercial?;)
I think the programmer of the system enjoyed trying to make everything as complex as his twisted little mind could. Im not a slouch to programming really complex business systems that have insane requirements. But I just get so flustered when I inherit some project that has code that would win a Obfuscated Perl Contest
hands down. Its annoying and I spent a day trolling news lists and looking over my Camel book trying to figure out how in the hell some stuff works. Blah. behaviors change from version to version. No standards body controlling perl. (Not that the C/C++/Java people do much better..) and a ton of other factors just lead to this dislike for perl in a real business environment that has comple business needs. Perl for everything right, Not.. Everything has its place. The highend of business programming is not it for Perl.
I hate having to deal w/ code like that but I still think it's worth it to have such a wonderful language. It's a shame that most people let this kind of thing reflect directly on Perl instead of the programmer.
As far as changes go, that's just the way it goes. For a language to evolve, changes are inevitable. Java 1.1 and Java 1.2 illustrates this. I've been told about horror stories with C++ as well (I'm not proficient enough to tell you if that's true or not).
As I said before, I don't think the "highend of business" is where Perl belongs either. I think it fits nicely being the beautiful duct tape that it is.
Considering you can write ASP in Perl I would say that your not propelry informed. You can do ASP in JScript, Perl, VBScript etc.
LOL, I've got quite a few projects that use Perl to generate JavaScript to generate DHTML.
You can really tell that Perl was made to deal w/ text and data (hence the name: Practical Extraction and Reporting Language aka Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister). It's one of the things that make the language so nice to work w/ in a web/database environment. This can have great benifits for reducing development time.
Another great strength of Perl is CPAN. Perl has a great community behind it.
Above all, I just think Perl is a fun language. It's not full of rules and restrictions. It's very loose and tends to let you find out what the best way to do something is. It's not always the right tool for the right job but it fits nicely most of the time.
Can't you Army people learn to use open techology?
Let me explain: You've posted this to a Linux oriented website. There are some people here who really only use Windows and just like to hang out, and some who use Macs. But _most_ of this Linux audience CAN'T ACCESS QUICKTIME VIDEOS!
What makes you think that the poster is a member of the US Army? How in the hell is it the posters fault? --
he talks at length about how Perl 5 code has certain keywords that make it known as Perl 5 and how DEC changed BASIC to use "extend" at the top of all their code to use long variable names (and how this was bad). Well, that's all fine and good.. He seems to want to break from this tradition yet what does he do? He begins talking about "module or class" (same as Perl 5 and DEC BASIC).
I think you may have read it wrong. He was simply stating the way that perl6 modules would be declared is different than perl5 modules.
Nothing was added, just changed.
The quote follows:
A closely related question is how Perl is going to recognize when it has accidentally been fed Perl 5 code rather than Perl 6 code. It would be rather bad to suddenly give working code a brand new set of semantics. The answer, I believe, is that it has to be impossible by definition to accidentally feed Perl 5 code to Perl 6. That is, Perl 6 must assume it is being fed Perl 5 code until it knows otherwise. And that implies that we must have some declaration that unambiguously declares the code to be Perl 6.
Now, there are right ways to do this, and wrong ways. I was peeved by the approach taken by DEC when they upgraded BASIC/PLUS to handle long variable names. Their solution was to require every program using long variable names to use the command EXTEND at the top. So henceforth and forevermore, every BASIC/PLUS program had EXTEND at the top of it. I don't know whether to call it Bad or Ugly, but it certainly wasn't Good.
A better approach is to modify something that would have to be there anyway. If you go out to CPAN and look at every single module out there, what do you see at the top? Answer: a ``package'' declaration. So we break that.
I hereby declare that a package declaration at the front of a file unambiguously indicates you are parsing Perl 5 code. If you want to write a Perl 6 module or class, it'll start with the keyword module or class. I don't know yet what the exact syntax of a module or a class declaration will be, but one thing I do know is that it'll set the current global namespace much like a package declaration does.
$7 case? Don't forget the $17.50 shipping and $20 for the power supply.
So it comes in at maybe $550. This computer will be total shit and not worth using. Regardless of the architecture and OS, if you pay less than $1000 for a computer, you are buying crap.
Do you really think that I'd have to spend double to get nice hardware? Some of it is already nice (geforce, logitech) but just for shits and grins, let's upgrade it:
$111 - Tyan S2054 TOMCAT i810 MB w/ 533 celeron (was $95..)
$72 - Western Digital HD (was $66)
$27 - Case w/ power supplly (was $7).
$17 - 10/100 Netgear ethernet card (was $4)
$42 - Creative labs DVD (no price change)
$14 - Logitech Keyboard (no price change)
$3 - Logitech mouse (no price change)
$134 - Geforce 2 64M GTS (no price change [in fact, this could be downgraded])
$170 - 17" NEC monitor (was $119 [I could have found a nice, less known brand for much less but I think you're impressed w/ brand names])
Total price difference: $93
That's a pretty nice system. Not the best but more than adequate.
And while you're picking at the details, let's don't forget the $70+ that you are going to spend on sales tax from buying it at your local computer store. That's not to mention the effort of going to the store, dealing with some store clerk who has no idea what he's talking about or even where the hardware is located. --
Slashdot Mirror
Gee, if they can't decrypt it, then how can anyone? LOL, everyone's putting un-decipherable files on freenet? What use is it then?
I would tend to agree w/ your second argument though.
Nobody knows this guy, the application was just announced out of the blue on the freenet developer mailing list. I'm not sure I can trust this app unless he releases the source code.
From the FAQ:
"As FreeWeb's structure settles down, as bugs get eliminated, and as the author cleans up the code (and makes it as intelligible and organised as possible (it's a bit of a mess presently))), source will definitely be released - initially, subsystems of FreeWeb, then ultimately the entire software suite.
I'm sure the comfort of having the source code will more than make up for the mess.
If my memory serves me correctly (and it often does NOT), your statement is not quite correct. I think Gnutella was originally created by Justin Frankel (of Winamp fame). He worked for AOL at the time, but it never an AOL project.
Really, I wonder why they were scared enough to have winamp shut down the project.
Gnutella doesn't have any central servers under anyone's control - hell, there's not even an official client
Well according to the courts, that doesn't matter. Napster doesn't seem to be able to control it's traffic either but I believe a judge was quoted as saying, "You created this monster, now you deal with it" (or something to that effect).
Why didn't they use this tactic against Napster?
Because Napster has a little entity called "Napster, Inc." running it. It's (unfortunately) much easier to sue Napster, Inc. than it is to go after hundreds of ISP's.
Well Gnutella was spawned by an AOL company. Wait, AOL-TimeWarner. Well I guess the real answer is that they'd have to sue themselves.
Freenet, by it's very nature, is private. If all you do is pass keys around to a small group of people, the MPAA/RIAA isn't going to do anything. However, if you put up a web page with keys to copyrighted material, they are going to shut you down.
,etc. Yep, their gonna stop that.
ROFL.. you obviously havn't seen the problems w/ all of these free website (geocities, etc.). Hundreds of them are created every day for these sorts of purposes (although they get shutdown fast... but more still pop up in their place). Those pages are a dime a dozen (err.. less actually)... if they get shutdown, nobody cares.
Let's don't forget newsgroups and IRC bots hosting searchable lists of keys. ICQ/AIM groups, etc.
Freenet may not be a direct alternative to napster/gnutella but that's what it's going to become. If you can't see that, maybe you should open your eyes a little wider. It's right there in front of your face.
I'm amazed that people who constantly claim that no copy protection cannot be hacked still feel that they can come up with a technical solution that will completely protect them from being sued for copyright infringement. Talk about hubris.
LOL.. I was thinking the exact opposite. The people who think it can be stopped are ignorant.
You would be a defendant. You don't get any money from that.
Not in a counter suit for defamation of character.
If you can spoof an IP and successfully transfer a movie file *FROM* the spoofed address, please let me know how.. we could re-implement the idea and do it intentionally...
Like they are going to spend the time downloading each movie they see. LOL.
Bob: But IP's can be spoofed. Meet my expert witness...
Do I understand that in this example Bob is a millionair Gnutella user? How else can he afford to defend a case against the MPAA to the point of being able to present expert witnesses?
LOL... yeah, like there's not a zillion ambulance chasing lawyers out there just waiting to sink their claws into the movie/records industry.
MPAA: This user is trading illegal copywrited material, is a bandwith/resource hog, continues after repeated warnings and you are facilitating him.
... ... ok.
Broadband ISP: Errr
User: defamation of character
Just imagine the countless hours tracking and prosecuting this type of stuff just to make the smallest dent. Then think about all of the lawsuits for defamation of character, etc. that they will recieve for not really having any real proof (I.E. IP spoofing, etc.).
Next they are going to have to hit all of the fserve users in IRC (goodluck) and then they are going to have to contend w/ FreeNet (going to need even more luck).
http://freenet.sourceforge.net
Nutmeg itself isn't all that great but if you really want to flip out, take about 20 grams (yes, that's a lot) and stuff them in horse capsules and swallow all of them. After you start feeling a little drowsy, take a few hits of acid. You'll peak for about 10 hours and trip for about another 24-36 hours. It's weird, after 12-24 hours, you can actually sleep and then wake up still tripping.
Nutmeg actually has some of the precursors to making MDMA (ecstasy). It's related in a lot of ways to the same benzene ring family that most psychedelic amphetamines come from including Peyote (yes, peyote is a psychedelic amphetamine).
If you really want more information, check out this book by Alexander Shulgin, PIHKAL (Phenethylamine I Have Known and Loved). Alexander Shulgin has probably synthesized and tested more psychedelics than any other chemist.
Okay, so its just my cynical rant because I got a badly managed and coded project.. ;-P
;)
You know, I have a theory about why there is so much bad perl code out there. I believe it's usually a first language. Newcomers have no idea what it's like to manage someone else's code much less organize large projects. Until that can be experienced, there's no real incentive to keep the code clean.
The other half of it is just a bunch of twisted, sadistic wierdo's
Really? Hmm.. I work for a world wide Networking/Communications company with 160,000+ employees and we use Perl a lot.
We're not the only ones either:
You're right that they don't hinge all of their products on it but I don't think that's what Perl is meant for. It's all about the right tool for the right job.
Im only going to stick to the theoretical here but I have found some Perl code that simly defies common sense in production level and quality code. These little 5 lines of code that consist of the bulk of a COMPLEX order processing routine are just non sense to debug. That is like a hiehgt of mismanaged and ill-thought programming. Perl allows this so much easier than most languages. Say you can write bad code in any langauge and your right. Say you can right the most incomprehensible nonsense in Perl and your even more right!
I understand that Perl's flexibility allows for problems. With flexibility comes the need for responsibility and common sense. It's really not Perl's fault. I'd rather have that flexibility when I need it rather than have it stripped away. That's one of the main reasons I use Perl more than Java. Again, they both have their place when used responsibly (is this starting to sound like a beer commercial?
I think the programmer of the system enjoyed trying to make everything as complex as his twisted little mind could. Im not a slouch to programming really complex business systems that have insane requirements. But I just get so flustered when I inherit some project that has code that would win a Obfuscated Perl Contest
hands down. Its annoying and I spent a day trolling news lists and looking over my Camel book trying to figure out how in the hell some stuff works. Blah. behaviors change from version to version. No standards body controlling perl. (Not that the C/C++/Java people do much better..) and a ton of other factors just lead to this dislike for perl in a real business environment that has comple business needs. Perl for everything right, Not.. Everything has its place. The highend of business programming is not it for Perl.
I hate having to deal w/ code like that but I still think it's worth it to have such a wonderful language. It's a shame that most people let this kind of thing reflect directly on Perl instead of the programmer.
As far as changes go, that's just the way it goes. For a language to evolve, changes are inevitable. Java 1.1 and Java 1.2 illustrates this. I've been told about horror stories with C++ as well (I'm not proficient enough to tell you if that's true or not).
As I said before, I don't think the "highend of business" is where Perl belongs either. I think it fits nicely being the beautiful duct tape that it is.
Considering you can write ASP in Perl I would say that your not propelry informed. You can do ASP in JScript, Perl, VBScript etc.
LOL, I've got quite a few projects that use Perl to generate JavaScript to generate DHTML.
You can really tell that Perl was made to deal w/ text and data (hence the name: Practical Extraction and Reporting Language aka Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister). It's one of the things that make the language so nice to work w/ in a web/database environment. This can have great benifits for reducing development time.
Another great strength of Perl is CPAN. Perl has a great community behind it.
Above all, I just think Perl is a fun language. It's not full of rules and restrictions. It's very loose and tends to let you find out what the best way to do something is. It's not always the right tool for the right job but it fits nicely most of the time.
Let me explain: You've posted this to a Linux oriented website. There are some people here who really only use Windows and just like to hang out, and some who use Macs. But _most_ of this Linux audience CAN'T ACCESS QUICKTIME VIDEOS!
What makes you think that the poster is a member of the US Army? How in the hell is it the posters fault?
--
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
That bugs the crap out of me
--
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
MBONE and a decent application design.
IP Multicasting is quite neat.
--
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
I think you may have read it wrong. He was simply stating the way that perl6 modules would be declared is different than perl5 modules.
Nothing was added, just changed.
The quote follows:
A closely related question is how Perl is going to recognize when it has accidentally been fed Perl 5 code rather than Perl 6 code. It would be rather bad to suddenly give working code a brand new set of semantics. The answer, I believe, is that it has to be impossible by definition to accidentally feed Perl 5 code to Perl 6. That is, Perl 6 must assume it is being fed Perl 5 code until it knows otherwise. And that implies that we must have some declaration that unambiguously declares the code to be Perl 6.
Now, there are right ways to do this, and wrong ways. I was peeved by the approach taken by DEC when they upgraded BASIC/PLUS to handle long variable names. Their solution was to require every program using long variable names to use the command EXTEND at the top. So henceforth and forevermore, every BASIC/PLUS program had EXTEND at the top of it. I don't know whether to call it Bad or Ugly, but it certainly wasn't Good.
A better approach is to modify something that would have to be there anyway. If you go out to CPAN and look at every single module out there, what do you see at the top? Answer: a ``package'' declaration. So we break that.
I hereby declare that a package declaration at the front of a file unambiguously indicates you are parsing Perl 5 code. If you want to write a Perl 6 module or class, it'll start with the keyword module or class. I don't know yet what the exact syntax of a module or a class declaration will be, but one thing I do know is that it'll set the current global namespace much like a package declaration does.
--
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
And that video card was *very nice*.
--
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
Actually the Celeron A's have 128k l2 cache.
An OS?
Download one (BSD, linux take your choice)
What about USB?
Yep, it's got USB (what doesn't now days?).
Firewire?
You probably have me there.
Preloaded software?
Most linux distro's come w/ much more software than you get from MS or Apple.
Expandability?
Much more so than a Mac or major brand PC.
CD-ROM?
Who needs one w/ a DVD?
You mean a cheap monitor, video card, keyboard, mouse
Check here for an upgraded list ($93 dollars difference).
--
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
Think before you post damnit.
--
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
So it comes in at maybe $550. This computer will be total shit and not worth using. Regardless of the architecture and OS, if you pay less than $1000 for a computer, you are buying crap.
Do you really think that I'd have to spend double to get nice hardware? Some of it is already nice (geforce, logitech) but just for shits and grins, let's upgrade it:
$111 - Tyan S2054 TOMCAT i810 MB w/ 533 celeron (was $95..)
$72 - Western Digital HD (was $66)
$27 - Case w/ power supplly (was $7).
$17 - 10/100 Netgear ethernet card (was $4)
$42 - Creative labs DVD (no price change)
$14 - Logitech Keyboard (no price change)
$3 - Logitech mouse (no price change)
$134 - Geforce 2 64M GTS (no price change [in fact, this could be downgraded])
$170 - 17" NEC monitor (was $119 [I could have found a nice, less known brand for much less but I think you're impressed w/ brand names])
Total price difference: $93
That's a pretty nice system. Not the best but more than adequate.
And while you're picking at the details, let's don't forget the $70+ that you are going to spend on sales tax from buying it at your local computer store. That's not to mention the effort of going to the store, dealing with some store clerk who has no idea what he's talking about or even where the hardware is located.
--
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
http://www.linux-mandrake.com
--
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.
From pricewatch.com:
$95 - 533 celeron w/ MB
$31 - 128 M RAM
$7 - Mid Tower case
$134 - Geforce 2 64M GTS
$4 - 100Mb ethernet card
$42 - DVD Drive
$15 - Logitech Keyboard
$3 - Logitech Mouse
$119 - 17" monitor
$66 - 10 Gig HD
=================
$516
--
A mind is a terrible thing to taste.