Red Hat serves a very distinct purpose. It introduces people to Linux who would not otherwise be introduced to Linux. It provides a choice to those who previously had no choice.
However, it should not be used as a crutch. It has been said that "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." (Don't know by whom, though) When seen in the context of the freedom provide by free source/open source, this comment is quite telling. If we fail to exercise our freedoms, we are doomed to relinquish them. RPM binary distributions make it far too easy to overlook the freedom and responsibility that free source has brought us. As more people use binary-only distributions of applications, less people are there to protect the freedom of free source. Less people are there to produce and debug free source options, and we will gradually see less free source.
Use the fancy install/config tools from RH, but think hard about the greater threat of binary-only distributions.
They now have on the page about Linus' keynote the following message: "Note: Due to technical difficulties, the archived video of Torvald's {sic} keynote is not yet available. We apologize for the delay, and will post it as soon as possible."
From earlier today, it would have appeared that they weren't even planning on posting it...
Email zd at feedback@zdtv.com. Ask them nicely if they would post the archive of Linus' speech. I have laready done so, and have not received a response as yet.
Interesting... In the ZDTV archive of Gates' keynote, there's a six minute cut - from 27:30 to 33:30 - where they display the message "Due to the proprietary nature of the information contained in this video segment, we must temporarily suspend the video and audio portion of this broadcast. Normal program will resume in a moment." This is after Gates is talking about asking normal people what they're looking for in computers, and comes back with loud applause... Does anyone know what was covered in this section?
The FUD guns are warming up again. The gloves are off.
We've been given a brief respite from the FUD guns these past few months. Quite simply, this was because Microsoft didn't have a new OS release to market. It looks like (from the FUD starting to flow, and Gates' Comdex speech) they're gearing up the machine for the release of W2K. I'd give it 6 months max.
Sit back and enjoy the ride - the FUD just gets more intense from here on in. Our job is to present a lucid (not ranting) response to the FUD that the public will be fed over the next year. We must present well thought-out and well-supported arguments to counter the FUD we're getting. We must be proactive and ensure that Linux remains the best choice. We must ensure that customers are aware of their choices.
Microsoft fully recognizes that they are most vulnerable to attack in the months leading up to, and the months immediately following the release of W2K. They will fight like a cornered animal. We cannot win that fight. We must dictate how the fight will go.
MATLAB - Looks like you're looking for "free beer", not "free speech."
IE4, MS Word, Visual Studio - I use all of these tools at work, and they are inferior to the comparable tools that I have on Linux (Netscape, Emacs/LaTex or SO, emacs and ass'td compilers)
But hey, if NT is stable enough for you, and you don't mind running on a proprietary system, and you don't mind coding to a nonstandard, poorly documented, inconsistent API - all the power to you. You have that choice.
However, my original post was in response to your allegation that Linux did not have the tools that you wanted or needed.
But let's see. Why switch to Linux Open-Source 'nuff said Basic servers (telnetd, mountd, apache) included with standard dist. Dev tools included with dist. Interoperability that NT doesn't even come close to. (Appletalk, Novell, NFS...) Faster, more stable implementation of MS's own SMB protocol than NT Available on a variety of h/w platforms. More stable - don't try to dispute this. You will lose. You're not supporting a company that uses unethical, illegal marketing strategies.
Linux provides a better performance, more robust, more standard, and more open platform to use or to code on.
This would distract the attention of distributors (particularly smaller, non-profit like Debian) away from what they should be doing - *developing better distributions*.
I think what should be done is a couple things.
1) separate testing from prep. services
2) testing is administered by an NPO, unconnected to a dist - This ensures that any test which carries any weight is not unfairly biased towards any specific dist. This test will cover information specific to each of the major dists... there is not that much differentiation among dists when compared to commonality, further this ensures certification is given to people with a wider knowledge of Linux than just 1 dist.
3) Preparation services can be offered by anyone - If somebody wants to prepare on his own, great, if Red Hat wants to offer prep. services, great - in order to give their clients the best service (so the clients get the best marks on the exam), they would have to provide info about all of the dists covered, not just theirs. Hey, if a high school, tech. college, etc. wants to offer prep. services - perfect - their customers just have to pass through one unifying exam.
I know that I would prefer to hire someone with a wider range of knowledge about Linux than just Red Hat (or just Debian...)
There's rarely too many choices... I'd be much more upset if I found that a useful little pseudo-standard UNIX tool that I learned to use on another OS were missing from my distribution...
I guess I don't quite understand what your concern is with having "too many programs." Are you concerned that they're taking up too much space (in general, the apps included with most distros are quite small)? Are you concerned that somehow you should know how to use all of them right now? (information overload?)
As for the time it takes to choose apps to install, hey, I don't know 'bout you, but it takes me about 10 seconds to scan down the list of disk sets to install (Slackware), and maybe 5 seconds per set to pick the individual apps...
Slashdot Mirror
Red Hat serves a very distinct purpose. It introduces people to Linux who would not otherwise be introduced to Linux. It provides a choice to those who previously had no choice.
However, it should not be used as a crutch. It has been said that "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." (Don't know by whom, though) When seen in the context of the freedom provide by free source/open source, this comment is quite telling. If we fail to exercise our freedoms, we are doomed to relinquish them. RPM binary distributions make it far too easy to overlook the freedom and responsibility that free source has brought us. As more people use binary-only distributions of applications, less people are there to protect the freedom of free source. Less people are there to produce and debug free source options, and we will gradually see less free source.
Use the fancy install/config tools from RH, but think hard about the greater threat of binary-only distributions.
They now have on the page about Linus' keynote the following message: "Note: Due to technical difficulties, the archived video of Torvald's {sic} keynote is not yet available. We apologize for the delay, and will post it as soon as possible."
From earlier today, it would have appeared that they weren't even planning on posting it...
Email zd at feedback@zdtv.com. Ask them nicely if they would post the archive of Linus' speech. I have laready done so, and have not received a response as yet.
Interesting... In the ZDTV archive of Gates' keynote, there's a six minute cut - from 27:30 to 33:30 - where they display the message "Due to the proprietary nature of the information contained in this video segment, we must temporarily suspend the video and audio portion of this broadcast. Normal program will resume in a moment." This is after Gates is talking about asking normal people what they're looking for in computers, and comes back with loud applause... Does anyone know what was covered in this section?
The FUD guns are warming up again. The gloves are off.
We've been given a brief respite from the FUD guns these past few months. Quite simply, this was because Microsoft didn't have a new OS release to market. It looks like (from the FUD starting to flow, and Gates' Comdex speech) they're gearing up the machine for the release of W2K. I'd give it 6 months max.
Sit back and enjoy the ride - the FUD just gets more intense from here on in. Our job is to present a lucid (not ranting) response to the FUD that the public will be fed over the next year. We must present well thought-out and well-supported arguments to counter the FUD we're getting. We must be proactive and ensure that Linux remains the best choice. We must ensure that customers are aware of their choices.
Microsoft fully recognizes that they are most vulnerable to attack in the months leading up to, and the months immediately following the release of W2K. They will fight like a cornered animal. We cannot win that fight. We must dictate how the fight will go.
k.
MATLAB - Looks like you're looking for "free beer", not "free speech."
IE4, MS Word, Visual Studio - I use all of these tools at work, and they are inferior to the comparable tools that I have on Linux (Netscape, Emacs/LaTex or SO, emacs and ass'td compilers)
But hey, if NT is stable enough for you, and you don't mind running on a proprietary system, and you don't mind coding to a nonstandard, poorly documented, inconsistent API - all the power to you. You have that choice.
However, my original post was in response to your allegation that Linux did not have the tools that you wanted or needed.
But let's see. Why switch to Linux
Open-Source 'nuff said
Basic servers (telnetd, mountd, apache) included
with standard dist.
Dev tools included with dist.
Interoperability that NT doesn't even come close
to. (Appletalk, Novell, NFS...)
Faster, more stable implementation of MS's own
SMB protocol than NT
Available on a variety of h/w platforms.
More stable - don't try to dispute this. You
will lose.
You're not supporting a company that uses
unethical, illegal marketing strategies.
Linux provides a better performance, more robust, more standard, and more open platform to use or to code on.
What do you want to run and need to use fo work?
Games? - Quake, Doom, Descent, CTK not 'nuff? High end relational DBMS? Oracle Server 8 not enough? Office Suites? SO5, WPS8, AW not enough? 3d rendering - Povray not enough (it kicks Bryce and 3dSMAX)? Development tools? gcc (incl. cross compiler for m68k, palm pilot, etc), gas, gdb, perl, compilers for Fortran, Modula-2, Modula-3, Interpretors for Lisp, Prolog - not enough? Connectivity - server? Apache, inetd, telnetd, mountd, nfsd... - not enough? Connectivity - client? Netscape, ftp, Real Audio, Shockwave, Shockwave Flash, tin, slrn, elm, pine, emacs,...
What apps do you need that are not on Linux?
No. The .html's have all been replaced with the letter. The .jpg's on the other hand...
---
???
This would distract the attention of distributors (particularly smaller, non-profit like Debian) away from what they should be doing - *developing better distributions*.
I think what should be done is a couple things.
1) separate testing from prep. services
2) testing is administered by an NPO, unconnected to a dist - This ensures that any test which carries any weight is not unfairly biased towards any specific dist. This test will cover information specific to each of the major dists... there is not that much differentiation among dists when compared to commonality, further this ensures certification is given to people with a wider knowledge of Linux than just 1 dist.
3) Preparation services can be offered by anyone - If somebody wants to prepare on his own, great, if Red Hat wants to offer prep. services, great - in order to give their clients the best service (so the clients get the best marks on the exam), they would have to provide info about all of the dists covered, not just theirs. Hey, if a high school, tech. college, etc. wants to offer prep. services - perfect - their customers just have to pass through one unifying exam.
I know that I would prefer to hire someone with a wider range of knowledge about Linux than just Red Hat (or just Debian...)
---
???
There's rarely too many choices... I'd be much more upset if I found that a useful little pseudo-standard UNIX tool that I learned to use on another OS were missing from my distribution...
I guess I don't quite understand what your concern is with having "too many programs." Are you concerned that they're taking up too much space (in general, the apps included with most distros are quite small)? Are you concerned that somehow you should know how to use all of them right now? (information overload?)
As for the time it takes to choose apps to install, hey, I don't know 'bout you, but it takes me about 10 seconds to scan down the list of disk sets to install (Slackware), and maybe 5 seconds per set to pick the individual apps...