It's never black and white when you want to justify oppressing people. That's the nature of wanting to hurt people while still maintaining the idea that you're not evil.
A public opinion poll showed Americans' trust in science and scientists reached a record low, with a majority saying they had "little trust" or "no trust" in scientific institutions. It's a complete mystery why so many people are losing their ability to trust science. Researchers are baffled, but some have suggested more arrests of dissenters may be in order.
Please. Sell me your beach house at an "end of the world" discount. It's practically underwater already, but I like you, so I'm willing do you a favor and take it off your hands.
Yes, then too. Wrong or "wrong" is subject to interpretation and sometimes future revision. Thoughts and speech and ideas should not be prosecuted. Period.
If you're going to concentrate on a small minority of cases, you're not going to get a good solution.
Anything that involves money being taken from my paycheck and given to people who won't be paying me back -- with money, gratitude, kindness, respect, civic virtue, or in any other way -- can't be characterized as a "good solution". You can try to say it is less bad than the alternative if you want. I don't think that argument holds water for the percentage that's being taken now.
If taxpayers were treated respectfully and shown some basic human kindness and gratitude rather than being treated like enemies to extract tribute from, that might help with the results you want.
What wrong with "they did nothing about it" then? Maybe they did everything they could think of. They did at least as much as you can think of. Maybe you should be congratulating them on doing everything anyone could think of at the time.
So if exxon had invested their outrageous profits in solar energy and become the #1 vendor of solar panels, nobody would think any differently of them?
That's all it takes to become the #1 vendor of solar panels?
what evidence can you show that your stupid argument has any relevance whatsoever?
My argument is relevant because Exxon is being criticized. But they're going to be criticized no matter what. They "ignored" warnings. But if they had taken action instead, there's no reason to think they'd be treated any better or be better off in any way.
"They did nothing!!!" "What should they have done? How would that have helped them?" "Irrelevant."
What evidence can you show us that there's any less complaining about Shell, Arco, and BP? How much less? Is "less complaining" a great outcome that they should spend their days working toward?
Shell, Arco, and BP are all making and selling solar panels, why not?
So if they sold as many solar panels as Shell, Arco, or BP, they'd be immune to criticism? It seems like environmentalists still complain about Shell, Arco, and BP.
Would people buy solar panels made by Exxon? Why would anyone expect Exxon would be good at making solar panels? Why would an Exxon executive think Exxon would be good at making solar panels?
When you tell yourself a story about Exxon making solar panels, does it seem like a believable story?
What were they supposed to do to not be accused of "ignoring" warnings? Can you describe the decision-making process you wish they'd followed?
It's the same for the rest of us as it is for Exxon -- just less existential. We've been "warned". Yet we go on with our lives. The warnings get louder and more shrill and catastrophic and angry. And we still go on with our lives. Eventually this should stop being a big surprise.
Sometimes treating people like people makes them behave better
Yeah, but in this example, the neck tattoo guy would break into my house and steal stuff (or worse) rather than get a 20 hour / week job loading packages onto a UPS truck.
Why shouldn't "behave better" include finding a job and doing something for someone instead of only taking from everyone?
You need to understand that the people who want free money do not care about your argument. (And the more exclamation points you put on it, the less they care.)
So? What makes you think facts are important in this discussion? We're in a post-facts society. People get their news from comedians -- partly because news organizations report and hype stories and hide and spin and outright fabricate other stories so much that they're nearly useless for learning about the world.
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Free speech is not black and white.
It's never black and white when you want to justify oppressing people. That's the nature of wanting to hurt people while still maintaining the idea that you're not evil.
A public opinion poll showed Americans' trust in science and scientists reached a record low, with a majority saying they had "little trust" or "no trust" in scientific institutions. It's a complete mystery why so many people are losing their ability to trust science. Researchers are baffled, but some have suggested more arrests of dissenters may be in order.
Please. Sell me your beach house at an "end of the world" discount. It's practically underwater already, but I like you, so I'm willing do you a favor and take it off your hands.
Yes, then too. Wrong or "wrong" is subject to interpretation and sometimes future revision. Thoughts and speech and ideas should not be prosecuted. Period.
Why are they immune from punishment for what amounts to an organized ring of terror, silencing all opposition for monetary or pelican gain?
Mmmm. Delicious, tender pelican! I can practically taste it right now.
Yes. I'm opposed to arresting people and/or bullying people for thought crimes or speech crimes or for advancing "wrong" ideas. You're not?
Because arresting people is what science is about now.
If you're going to concentrate on a small minority of cases, you're not going to get a good solution.
Anything that involves money being taken from my paycheck and given to people who won't be paying me back -- with money, gratitude, kindness, respect, civic virtue, or in any other way -- can't be characterized as a "good solution". You can try to say it is less bad than the alternative if you want. I don't think that argument holds water for the percentage that's being taken now.
If taxpayers were treated respectfully and shown some basic human kindness and gratitude rather than being treated like enemies to extract tribute from, that might help with the results you want.
What wrong with "they did nothing about it" then? Maybe they did everything they could think of. They did at least as much as you can think of. Maybe you should be congratulating them on doing everything anyone could think of at the time.
I don't understand why you think that all criminals are people who could get a job and don't because they'd rather break the law.
That's the scenario in the post I responded to.
Also, I'm not interested in being kind to (or bending over for) people who'd say "give us your money or we'll commit crimes".
it's how they became the #1 vendor of oil
They aren't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
So if exxon had invested their outrageous profits in solar energy and become the #1 vendor of solar panels, nobody would think any differently of them?
That's all it takes to become the #1 vendor of solar panels?
what evidence can you show that your stupid argument has any relevance whatsoever?
My argument is relevant because Exxon is being criticized. But they're going to be criticized no matter what. They "ignored" warnings. But if they had taken action instead, there's no reason to think they'd be treated any better or be better off in any way.
"They did nothing!!!"
"What should they have done? How would that have helped them?"
"Irrelevant."
Irrelevant? Really?
What evidence can you show us that there's any less complaining about Shell, Arco, and BP? How much less? Is "less complaining" a great outcome that they should spend their days working toward?
Shell, Arco, and BP are all making and selling solar panels, why not?
So if they sold as many solar panels as Shell, Arco, or BP, they'd be immune to criticism? It seems like environmentalists still complain about Shell, Arco, and BP.
Would people buy solar panels made by Exxon? Why would anyone expect Exxon would be good at making solar panels? Why would an Exxon executive think Exxon would be good at making solar panels?
When you tell yourself a story about Exxon making solar panels, does it seem like a believable story?
... and did nothing about it.
Versus doing what? Tell us.
What were they supposed to do to not be accused of "ignoring" warnings? Can you describe the decision-making process you wish they'd followed?
It's the same for the rest of us as it is for Exxon -- just less existential. We've been "warned". Yet we go on with our lives. The warnings get louder and more shrill and catastrophic and angry. And we still go on with our lives. Eventually this should stop being a big surprise.
Why would someone pay to build and operate a machine that makes a product no one can buy?
Sometimes treating people like people makes them behave better
Yeah, but in this example, the neck tattoo guy would break into my house and steal stuff (or worse) rather than get a 20 hour / week job loading packages onto a UPS truck.
Why shouldn't "behave better" include finding a job and doing something for someone instead of only taking from everyone?
Why would machines make something no one can buy? Why would someone pay to build and operate such a machine?
What do you propose? The death penalty for neck tattoos? ... Either we will pay as crime victims
Why not? Why shouldn't we treat people the way they'd treat us?
This is a genuine question. Why would you say we should treat these people better than they would treat us?
And the things those machines make go into the hands of people who need them, which helps people.
You need to understand that the people who want free money do not care about your argument. (And the more exclamation points you put on it, the less they care.)
Historically, this is false.
So? What makes you think facts are important in this discussion? We're in a post-facts society. People get their news from comedians -- partly because news organizations report and hype stories and hide and spin and outright fabricate other stories so much that they're nearly useless for learning about the world.