A little part of me is kind of proud of that but my formal statement is, indeed, an apology.
Lol, yup, this is how a lot of potentially insecure code propagates. And not just perl, of course, but php, python, java, ruby, etc etc etc.
I remember seeing a perl script that passed the database queries around in the URL as a parameter. Something like "http://domain.com/foo.pl?query=SELECT%20name%20FROM%20users%20WHERE%20userid=123"....
That one made my head explode. He should have just named the script "HACKME.pl".
I found that I had to a comment on nearly every line of my own code to be able to read it later
Yep...I go back and look at old perl stuff I wrote 4 or 5 years ago, and I swear to god it looks like line noise. I couldn't debug one of my own programs now to save my life.
I gave up on Perl around version 4 but still dabbled with it...and then version 5 came out, and my response was a resounding, "Hell no!"
I watched perl go from a very cool, somewhat terse language to a complete clusterfuck of unimaginable proportions. When carp started crashing in response to a bad bug I realized that perl was only going to cause me more heartaches, headaches, and wasted hours of trying to track the problem to the offending line.
And as much as people hate php, it's nearly impossible to crash it so hard that it won't at least give you some info about the problem that caused it to choke on. It's a billion times easier to debug than perl.
The other thing is that maintaining someone else's perl code can be a total nightmare. With C++, Java, PHP, or C# there is usually at least some consistency to the code from programmer to programmer...but not with perl. There are probably 500 different ways to do any common thing ("Hello world!") and what is clever, clear, and obvious to programmer A is completely unreadable and opaque to programmer B. Yes, there may be "more than one way to do it" in perl, but trust me, that's not always a good thing.
I liked perl...but after version 5 it didn't like me.
If you're not part of the solutionyou are part of the problem, but I see all you care about is money.
Oh no, I care about my wife and my son and my businesses, and I care about my hobbies and I care about if it's going to be too hot in Thailand when we go there in the next few weeks and I care about my neighbor who's not been feeling well lately, and so on and so forth. There's lots of things I care about besides money. The money just allows me the freedom to care a little bit more effectively.:)
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I could sell drugs and have a nice home and nice car too.
Yes, but that would be illegal and what I do isn't illegal. Besides, I doubt a hoser like you would last 5 minutes on the street selling drugs. You'd be robbed, cuffed, and stuffed inside of an hour.
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I've been shipping computer games for 20+ years.
Lol, sure you have. I totally definitely absolutely believe you, really I do.:)
It's snobbery or elitism, take your pick. Why you feel compelled to whine about a particular language is of no real interest to me. Feel free to snivel all you want.
By the way, what language have YOU written that's become incredibly popular and runs on practically every platform in existence? What language have YOU written that's in use on hundreds of millions of web sites?
Recently I could not attend a change requested by one client because of the PHP can not blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah....
Yeah, sure, whatever. Guess it sucks to be you, forced to use a language that raped your mom, shot your dog, ate all your ice cream and then left the toilet seat up.
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And I do not fucking interested if that crap gives you a lot of money (if I can take your word seriously about it, I must say)
Lol, well I must say that I don't care if you take me seriously or not. I don't know you, I don't want to know you, and your ranting about this awful language that's made me hundreds of thousands of dollars from the comfort of my home only makes me smile.:)
While you're busy ranting, I'm relaxing and having fun listening to you bitch and moan. But yeah, the fact is that PHP has made me a shitload of money, and that's the part that really grinds your gears. You probably don't give two fucks about the language (you can probably just barely use it) but the idea that I've used it to live a carefree life is what really bothers you, lol.
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it is still a shitty language to make proper information systems.
Well lah-dee-fucking-dah, I'll be sure to mention that to the maid. I bet she'll be totally pissed about that.
"Hey Tina, did you know that PHP is a shitty language to make proper information systems?" "Oh no, Mr OldGuy, why that's just terrible! Should I warm up the sauna for you now?"
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And if you are more of those with serious reading comprehension problems here's the short version: PHP does not have a lot of critical resources today to make a good system, and is why I hate when I have to use it.
The arguments on PHP noted in http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/... are valid point which show that as a language and framework PHP is a mess.
Yes, PHP has lots of problems, and I couldn't care less. It works very well for me and in my world that's where the rubber meets the road. Sure, PHP has a ton of warts, etc etc etc, and the fact is that I don't care one bit.
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However, if it serves you to build software with PHP, as you have clients who want that, then this is totally fine. Obviously your customers are willing to pay a lot more for development time than necessary.
The only client I have is me. I build what I want, when I want, the way I want. And so far I've done pretty damn well. I don't know if I'd say that I've been a "smashing success", but I will say that I've done damn well. As I've said, PHP has enabled me to live quite comfortably, travel the world on my schedule, live in a nice home, buy nice cars for my wife and I, support my family very well, make my house payments, etc etc etc. Really, what's not to like about that?:)
The fact is that many of the people dissing on me here secretly wish they could do as well as I have. It's only partially about the language- a lot of the hate is based around the fact that I've used such a "terrible" language to make a ton of money, and that conflicts with their "PHP is teh suck!" paradigm.
...but I will never do a new system in a language that is unable to save the state of things between a request and another without requiring hacks like putting lots of things in the user session
Well, good for you. I'm glad that you let a consideration like that drive your choice of language and development path. I, on the other hand, have stuff to do and PHP lets me get it done. I don't really care, because as I've said repeatedly, it makes me quite a bit of money and keeping my family fed is far more important to me than some heinous blather about what it does with user sessions.
PHP is shit to develop information systems, get over it.
Sure it is, but it's made me a shitload of money, a concept you seem to have difficulty grasping. Lil' ol' me, working away in my cheesy home office, have used PHP to live very comfortably for the last dozen years or so. And never once have I lost one minute of sleep over how PHP handles user sessions or the way the function calls are inconsistently named. I just wipe my tears away with the checks that keep coming in.:)
How about YOU get over your nose-in-the-air language snobbery and get back to work? I don't snivel about your choice of language, why does it bother you so much what I use? The fact is that what I use works. Use whatever language you like and stop being such a pathetic code-bigot.
I'm not judging PHP here, just questioning the perspective of your metric.
Ii understand. My metric is pretty real-world based, that is, does it make me money? And the answer is "yes".
I'm willing to overlook or ignore a lot of other metrics when it comes to putting food on my table or supporting my family.
Sometimes "good enough" is good enough. For me, PHP is certainly "good enough". None of its bugs, warts, or annoyances (of which there are plenty) make me lose one minute of sleep.
Just because you made a fortune selling manure shoveling shit doesn't mean it doesn't stink.
So what? I still made a fortune.:)
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PHP, like Javascript, are complete clusterfucks written by people who don't have a fucking clue how a good language is designed.
And guess who doesn't care? (Hint: it's me!)
The point is, Mr Language Snob, that I really don't give a flying fuck how much you hate PHP and Javascript.
PHP and Javascript enable me to live in a nice home and drive a nice car and go on vacations with my wife whenever and wherever the fuck I want. You only wish you could live so well, lol.
So by all means- be as smug as you want in your dreamy little Language Superiority Fantasy land. Just make sure you do your job and wipe down our table after we leave the restaurant, okay?
I wonder. Do the evangelists still roam the internet trash talking any language not approved by the big M?
I have no idea. Frankly, I couldn't care less what Microsoft likes or doesn't like. Or more accurately, I just hope they stay away from anything in the LAMP stack so they don't fuck it up.
I can see it now: "Microsoft PHP(tm)- from the same great team that brought you Clippy and Microsoft Bob!"
And of course it would be just incompatible enough with the real PHP so as to cause lots of fucky little problems that would be practically impossible to track down. But thankfully they don't seem to be interested in it at this time- they're too busy fucking up Skype to bother with something like PHP. Maybe when they're done ruining Skype they'll have time to make a proprietary, retarded version of PHP.
Cue the PHP haters to flood this topic with endless criticisms and loads of "it's SO awful" stories about how terrible PHP is.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I like PHP, and coding in it enabled me to make a shitload of money over the last dozen years or so. It still makes me money every single day, and all at a cost to me of almost nothing. Linux, Apache, mySQL, and PHP -the classic LAMP stack- has been very, very good to me.
Hate on it all you want, but working alone in my little home office I learned and used PHP to make more than enough money to buy a nice home, travel the world, support my family, and live a very comfortable life.
Is it the "best" language? I have no idea, but it's good enough for me and that's what counts.
So please, feel free to tell me how terrible and horrible it is.:)
If they had both reacted to the crisis in the same manner, then there wouldn't be that problem. Yes, there was a problem with conflicting inputs, but if both pilots reacted correctly, there'd have been no conflict. When you can't get the aviate right, you shouldn't be communicating, your attention should be on the aviation.
Agreed, 100%.
My favorite example of how it's done right was Captain Sullenberger,
Yep, he had the knowledge, the training, and the skill, coupled with the steadiness and presence of mind to make all the right moves and do all the right things. And the result was the best of all possible outcomes. He's what every pilot should aspire to be.
It was more than just the fact of the stall, it was several things. They ignored the "COINCIDENCE" warning and the cockpit design actually prevented the two officers who were flying from actually seeing what the other was doing with the control stick. Their fatal mistake was willfully ignoring or missing the "COINCIDENCE" warning until it was too late to do anything about it. If they'd paid attention to that then they might all still be alive today.
A total "aviate, navigate, and communicate" failure, especially the "communicate" part.
I don't think there was anything in the manual detailing how to deal with that particular series of events.
And fortunately, due to their training, this event didn't fall into the "exceeded their ability to deal with it" category. Kudos to them for managing it and responding properly.
Sadly, there are a million things that can go wrong on any/every flight and it's impossible to train for all of them. Sooner or later a combination of events will occur that will be outside the envelope of the crew's training or their ability to respond effectively.
And, of course, sometimes it's just simple stupidity or poor training, or both.
I used to do a lot of flights to SE Asia, and if something happens way out over the water, you're just fucked, plain and simple.
I was always amazed at how reliable the engines were to be able to run for 12 hours straight in freezing cold temperatures without just blowing up or conking out for one reason or another.
Slashdot Mirror
Really? That sounds fishy to me.
We, the jury, find the defendant gill-ty of terrible fish puns.
(Or maybe I just needed more time to mullet over.)
A little part of me is kind of proud of that but my formal statement is, indeed, an apology.
Lol, yup, this is how a lot of potentially insecure code propagates. And not just perl, of course, but php, python, java, ruby, etc etc etc.
I remember seeing a perl script that passed the database queries around in the URL as a parameter. Something like "http://domain.com/foo.pl?query=SELECT%20name%20FROM%20users%20WHERE%20userid=123"....
That one made my head explode. He should have just named the script "HACKME.pl".
Wait, you mean like, Microsoft is going to develop HHVM?
Oh shit. Time to retire and move to an island in the South Pacific.
(Disclaimer: it's just a joke. :-)
Or is it, Mr "Marginal Coward", if that even is your real name... ;)
The Perl 6 logo is unbelievably childish.
It's an embarrassment...it looks like some kiddy mascot for The Happy Butterfly Who Loved Flowers or some shit like that.
You're right- show that to your boss and you'd be lucky if you had a job by the end of the day. Seriously, what the fuck were they thinking?
PHP's "purple elephant" was bad enough, but the perl 6 logo makes it look like a masterpiece of corporate design.
I found that I had to a comment on nearly every line of my own code to be able to read it later
Yep...I go back and look at old perl stuff I wrote 4 or 5 years ago, and I swear to god it looks like line noise. I couldn't debug one of my own programs now to save my life.
I gave up on Perl around version 4 but still dabbled with it...and then version 5 came out, and my response was a resounding, "Hell no!"
I watched perl go from a very cool, somewhat terse language to a complete clusterfuck of unimaginable proportions. When carp started crashing in response to a bad bug I realized that perl was only going to cause me more heartaches, headaches, and wasted hours of trying to track the problem to the offending line.
And as much as people hate php, it's nearly impossible to crash it so hard that it won't at least give you some info about the problem that caused it to choke on. It's a billion times easier to debug than perl.
The other thing is that maintaining someone else's perl code can be a total nightmare. With C++, Java, PHP, or C# there is usually at least some consistency to the code from programmer to programmer...but not with perl. There are probably 500 different ways to do any common thing ("Hello world!") and what is clever, clear, and obvious to programmer A is completely unreadable and opaque to programmer B. Yes, there may be "more than one way to do it" in perl, but trust me, that's not always a good thing.
I liked perl...but after version 5 it didn't like me.
I mean really, who could have predicted that users wouldn't want to see more ads?
It's, like, so unbelievable!
Don't worry, if they really like the idea they'll steal it and then sue you for infringing on their vaporware product.
If you're not part of the solution you are part of the problem, but I see all you care about is money.
Oh no, I care about my wife and my son and my businesses, and I care about my hobbies and I care about if it's going to be too hot in Thailand when we go there in the next few weeks and I care about my neighbor who's not been feeling well lately, and so on and so forth. There's lots of things I care about besides money. The money just allows me the freedom to care a little bit more effectively. :)
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I could sell drugs and have a nice home and nice car too.
Yes, but that would be illegal and what I do isn't illegal. Besides, I doubt a hoser like you would last 5 minutes on the street selling drugs. You'd be robbed, cuffed, and stuffed inside of an hour.
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I've been shipping computer games for 20+ years.
Lol, sure you have. I totally definitely absolutely believe you, really I do. :)
Well... It's because unlike you I work in the real world and have real-world problems,
Oh my god, that sounds simply dreadful. The "real world", ewwwwwwwwwww!
It is not "snobbery", my dear moron...
It's snobbery or elitism, take your pick. Why you feel compelled to whine about a particular language is of no real interest to me. Feel free to snivel all you want.
By the way, what language have YOU written that's become incredibly popular and runs on practically every platform in existence? What language have YOU written that's in use on hundreds of millions of web sites?
Recently I could not attend a change requested by one client because of the PHP can not blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah....
Yeah, sure, whatever. Guess it sucks to be you, forced to use a language that raped your mom, shot your dog, ate all your ice cream and then left the toilet seat up.
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And I do not fucking interested if that crap gives you a lot of money (if I can take your word seriously about it, I must say)
Lol, well I must say that I don't care if you take me seriously or not. I don't know you, I don't want to know you, and your ranting about this awful language that's made me hundreds of thousands of dollars from the comfort of my home only makes me smile. :)
While you're busy ranting, I'm relaxing and having fun listening to you bitch and moan. But yeah, the fact is that PHP has made me a shitload of money, and that's the part that really grinds your gears. You probably don't give two fucks about the language (you can probably just barely use it) but the idea that I've used it to live a carefree life is what really bothers you, lol.
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it is still a shitty language to make proper information systems.
Well lah-dee-fucking-dah, I'll be sure to mention that to the maid. I bet she'll be totally pissed about that.
"Hey Tina, did you know that PHP is a shitty language to make proper information systems?"
"Oh no, Mr OldGuy, why that's just terrible! Should I warm up the sauna for you now?"
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And if you are more of those with serious reading comprehension problems here's the short version: PHP does not have a lot of critical resources today to make a good system, and is why I hate when I have to use it.
Well I just feel awful for you, you poor thing.
The arguments on PHP noted in http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/... are valid point which show that as a language and framework PHP is a mess.
Yes, PHP has lots of problems, and I couldn't care less. It works very well for me and in my world that's where the rubber meets the road. Sure, PHP has a ton of warts, etc etc etc, and the fact is that I don't care one bit.
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However, if it serves you to build software with PHP, as you have clients who want that, then this is totally fine. Obviously your customers are willing to pay a lot more for development time than necessary.
The only client I have is me. I build what I want, when I want, the way I want. And so far I've done pretty damn well. I don't know if I'd say that I've been a "smashing success", but I will say that I've done damn well. As I've said, PHP has enabled me to live quite comfortably, travel the world on my schedule, live in a nice home, buy nice cars for my wife and I, support my family very well, make my house payments, etc etc etc. Really, what's not to like about that? :)
The fact is that many of the people dissing on me here secretly wish they could do as well as I have. It's only partially about the language- a lot of the hate is based around the fact that I've used such a "terrible" language to make a ton of money, and that conflicts with their "PHP is teh suck!" paradigm.
...but I will never do a new system in a language that is unable to save the state of things between a request and another without requiring hacks like putting lots of things in the user session
Well, good for you. I'm glad that you let a consideration like that drive your choice of language and development path. I, on the other hand, have stuff to do and PHP lets me get it done. I don't really care, because as I've said repeatedly, it makes me quite a bit of money and keeping my family fed is far more important to me than some heinous blather about what it does with user sessions.
PHP is shit to develop information systems, get over it.
Sure it is, but it's made me a shitload of money, a concept you seem to have difficulty grasping. Lil' ol' me, working away in my cheesy home office, have used PHP to live very comfortably for the last dozen years or so. And never once have I lost one minute of sleep over how PHP handles user sessions or the way the function calls are inconsistently named. I just wipe my tears away with the checks that keep coming in. :)
How about YOU get over your nose-in-the-air language snobbery and get back to work? I don't snivel about your choice of language, why does it bother you so much what I use? The fact is that what I use works. Use whatever language you like and stop being such a pathetic code-bigot.
I'm not judging PHP here, just questioning the perspective of your metric.
Ii understand. My metric is pretty real-world based, that is, does it make me money? And the answer is "yes".
I'm willing to overlook or ignore a lot of other metrics when it comes to putting food on my table or supporting my family.
Sometimes "good enough" is good enough. For me, PHP is certainly "good enough". None of its bugs, warts, or annoyances (of which there are plenty) make me lose one minute of sleep.
Bug prone? Check.
Security issue prone? Check.
Awkward OOP? Check.
Made me a shitload of money? Check.
Just because you made a fortune selling manure shoveling shit doesn't mean it doesn't stink.
So what? I still made a fortune. :)
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PHP, like Javascript, are complete clusterfucks written by people who don't have a fucking clue how a good language is designed.
And guess who doesn't care? (Hint: it's me!)
The point is, Mr Language Snob, that I really don't give a flying fuck how much you hate PHP and Javascript.
PHP and Javascript enable me to live in a nice home and drive a nice car and go on vacations with my wife whenever and wherever the fuck I want. You only wish you could live so well, lol.
So by all means- be as smug as you want in your dreamy little Language Superiority Fantasy land. Just make sure you do your job and wipe down our table after we leave the restaurant, okay?
I wonder. Do the evangelists still roam the internet trash talking any language not approved by the big M?
I have no idea. Frankly, I couldn't care less what Microsoft likes or doesn't like. Or more accurately, I just hope they stay away from anything in the LAMP stack so they don't fuck it up.
I can see it now: "Microsoft PHP(tm)- from the same great team that brought you Clippy and Microsoft Bob!"
And of course it would be just incompatible enough with the real PHP so as to cause lots of fucky little problems that would be practically impossible to track down. But thankfully they don't seem to be interested in it at this time- they're too busy fucking up Skype to bother with something like PHP. Maybe when they're done ruining Skype they'll have time to make a proprietary, retarded version of PHP.
Cue the PHP haters to flood this topic with endless criticisms and loads of "it's SO awful" stories about how terrible PHP is.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I like PHP, and coding in it enabled me to make a shitload of money over the last dozen years or so. It still makes me money every single day, and all at a cost to me of almost nothing. Linux, Apache, mySQL, and PHP -the classic LAMP stack- has been very, very good to me.
Hate on it all you want, but working alone in my little home office I learned and used PHP to make more than enough money to buy a nice home, travel the world, support my family, and live a very comfortable life.
Is it the "best" language? I have no idea, but it's good enough for me and that's what counts.
So please, feel free to tell me how terrible and horrible it is. :)
If they had both reacted to the crisis in the same manner, then there wouldn't be that problem. Yes, there was a problem with conflicting inputs, but if both pilots reacted correctly, there'd have been no conflict. When you can't get the aviate right, you shouldn't be communicating, your attention should be on the aviation.
Agreed, 100%.
My favorite example of how it's done right was Captain Sullenberger,
Yep, he had the knowledge, the training, and the skill, coupled with the steadiness and presence of mind to make all the right moves and do all the right things. And the result was the best of all possible outcomes. He's what every pilot should aspire to be.
It was more than just the fact of the stall, it was several things. They ignored the "COINCIDENCE" warning and the cockpit design actually prevented the two officers who were flying from actually seeing what the other was doing with the control stick. Their fatal mistake was willfully ignoring or missing the "COINCIDENCE" warning until it was too late to do anything about it. If they'd paid attention to that then they might all still be alive today.
A total "aviate, navigate, and communicate" failure, especially the "communicate" part.
Sadly, there are a million things that can go wrong on any/every flight and it's impossible to train for all of them.
Yep. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
I don't think there was anything in the manual detailing how to deal with that particular series of events.
And fortunately, due to their training, this event didn't fall into the "exceeded their ability to deal with it" category. Kudos to them for managing it and responding properly.
Sadly, there are a million things that can go wrong on any/every flight
The root cause on this flight was cracked solder,
Then make that "a million and one."
Sadly, there are a million things that can go wrong on any/every flight and it's impossible to train for all of them. Sooner or later a combination of events will occur that will be outside the envelope of the crew's training or their ability to respond effectively.
And, of course, sometimes it's just simple stupidity or poor training, or both.
I used to do a lot of flights to SE Asia, and if something happens way out over the water, you're just fucked, plain and simple.
I was always amazed at how reliable the engines were to be able to run for 12 hours straight in freezing cold temperatures without just blowing up or conking out for one reason or another.
All the ones in my drawer at home (and the plastic ones at work) all have 3 prongs. I don't know why, maybe it's a copyright issue.