OMG LOL oh, you're thinking of "Soap" -- where there's a running joke of the hopelessly clueless bigot Aunt Jessica makes an ass out of herself by using that term.
When the evaluation of candidates is biased by the kind of bigotry you exhibit, for example, then the best person for the job is not going to be chosen. It will be the young white heterosexual man over people who were actually more qualified and experienced than him. Cheryl Fillekes, for example.
And this is relevant how? We go to work to work. That's why it's called work.
... But their social interests, hobbies, and family lives likely have little to do with yours, unless you're a bachelor who has no interest in work/family life balance.
Oh, so any older woman MUST be more interested in work as a "social activity" or "hobby", MUST have a "family life", MUST have "interest in work/family life balance" and so forth, and this must match the level of "interest in work/family life balance" among the people she works with?
Do you have any idea how bigoted you sound?
Maybe it's the fact that as a nerd's nerd who never had a family she would fit in all too well if she were a man, and actually knows a whole lot more STEM than they do -- that STEM that guys always try to beat girls over the "don't you worry your pretty little" head with.
Wow you never hear that about a man evaluating her qualifications for a job!
Are you trying to prove Lewis's Law by any chance?
Reading some of your other posts, I would say your bigotry and abusive personality is pretty ugly.
And with all the social misfits in software development, the minute a highly qualified woman shows up, the most important thing is suddenly "social fit"?
Really?
You must not know many programmers, socially or otherwise, Mr. Fly!
Of course, you might also be in one of those countries that has made it so hard to fire someone that companies don't want to hire. France has this problem at the moment. Worker rights are nice and all, but the more they have the less competitive a company is. We live in a global marketplace these days, so you have to compete as such.
Oh, so you want to compete with coders in undeveloped countries making pennies an hour, Mr. FlyHelicopters!
Enjoy your race to the bottom!
Hey, Fly (can I call you 'Fly'?). What's more disgusting than a pile of dead workers?
The live one at the bottom trying to eat his way to the top.
That would be you, in a "global marketplace" where people are literally worked to death.
A more civilized solution, of course, would be for worker's rights to be respected in all countries such that it were a level playing field.
Lord you are an idiot... People offered jobs does not and SHOULD not match the demographics of the applications... Just because 25% of the people who apply are old, or black, or anything else doesn't mean that 25% should be hired. They might not be qualified.
So you assume that "the people who apply are old, or black, or anything else" are unlikely to be qualified at all, much less be more qualified than a young white man. Nice.
Nice to see you serving up a healthy dose of personal abuse with your bigotry.
Who else do you repeatedly and belligerently call 'idiot'?
Oh, right, the juries who actually enforce these "unenforceable" laws. Hmmm.
Right. Making young men happy, making sure THEY work more efficiently is what it's all about -- and screw every body else.
Is that your point? Gee, I wonder why all the engineers in these places are young white men, when it's just accepted that the environment should be designed around their fragile emotional need to have their egos and sexuality flattered by the hiring of strictly ornamental female staff.
I wonder if that whole idea of the proper role of women at work as "Pretty Secretary Who Makes Men Happy" has anything to do with their exclusion of older female engineers whose education experience and qualifications intimidate both the Young White Men and their Pretty Secretaries?
You're like one of those cartoon characters that has an angry defensive outburst whenever someone disagrees with him, tsotha.
And then gets particularly petulant and childish, screaming and stomping around, when it's pointed out -- how defensive, petulant and childish you're behaving.
"The Best" is the most experienced, mature, knowledgeable and energetic, not the most young, glib, flighty, egotistical and error-prone.
By basing their evaluations on age and gender stereotypes and not accomplishment and skill that are a reliable predictor of future success, they're just setting themselves up for....well, you saw what idiots they made of themselves when Snowden revealed part of the story. "We never helped them Spookers!!!" screamed Google Senior Management. Then Snowden released the fact that, well, actually, the DOD and NSA had paid Google quite a lot of money for some rather compromising contractual work that involved setting up black servers to siphon off data...for...wait for it...No Such Agency! It was hilarious.
Those of us who have worked with spooks would have known better in the first place, but...
Guess they chose wrong. In so many ways. But that's their problem now, isn't it?
Wait. A young man with an elite education in a STEM changes jobs several times in his career and it's "Career Growth" and "More Responsibility" and "demonstrates flexibility and adaptability."
But when an older woman has actually displayed all of the same career moves including NO "gap in employment" it's somehow "a new job" and "can't expect the same pay" and "she needs to be retrained" and "it's a new career" as if she was somebody's bloody secretary retraining as a dental technician? With a PhD in computational mathematical physics from the University of Chicago? Really?
Call me old-fashioned, last I heard, a PhD at an elite institution and programming year after year for 20 years in academic and research settings from the age of 15 to finishing your last postdoc at 35 in computational physics (not to mention actually building and sysadminning all the Unix boxes the programming was done on, plus pulling the cable and integrating them into N+1 different networks) kinda qualifies you to actually program for a living without it being considered "a new career" or "a new job."
And when the time spent from 35 to 55 is actually working as a programmer , not "taking 20 years off" it's assumed that she "changed careers" at 45? Can you people count?
No, it's just an indication of the double standard.
Young men all over the industry are constantly being excused for everything under the sun, up to and including the criminal offense of attempted rape because "they lack people skills" whereas an "old woman" as you say (BTW boyo, 72 is "old woman", 55 is "mature seasoned professional) is going to be told she "lacks people skills" if she offendeth an egomaniac brogrammer by gasp! finding and fixing a bug in his code.
Again, demonstrating the variation on Lewis' Law, that the comments on a post protesting discrimination will demonstrate exactly why such protest was made. 47 is more than 15 years to retirement, and 55 is at least 10. This is "close to retirement" in an industry where people rarely stay in a job more than 2 or 3 years?
I had been at one job for over a year when the owner was like "So when are you going to have kids?!?" I was like, "I'm nearly 50. You've heard of this thing called Menopause?"
He started and was like, "but you're only in your mid-30's."
"Thanks but..."
"Well that's what we thought when we hired you..."
I started looking for another job like that week.
"a REALISTIC view of the industry and where YOU fit."
Oh, please. And when, despite the highest qualifications, women, people of color, and older people are for "cultural fit" reasons disproportionately excluded, the only way to get that situation investigated is to file suit.
If you put a bunch of white frat boys in a room, obviously they're going to assume that someone old enough to be one of their parents has in fact devoted half their life to being a parent, that a black guy showing up is the janitor, and a woman coming in had better be young and pretty and there to be sexually assaulted, not someone who looks like they could easily put them in a chokehold and break both their arms if they tried.
An extremely large organization has many many different groups to work in, so rejection by one group on dubious grounds does not rule out working with a different team, and don't forget: They called her.
So this isn't Charlie Brown believing Lucy Lucy Lucy Lucy with the Football Football Football Football, it's Charlie Brown believing Lucy, then Linus, then Pigpen, then Snoopy -- all for participation in different games.
Not that much different than a PhD oral exam at a place like The University of Chicago in the Physical Sciences, in other words.
Except at UC the interviewers are actually qualified to make a judgment based on the response, not the size of the candidates' bustline or number of grey hairs on her head.
Slashdot Mirror
OMG LOL oh, you're thinking of "Soap" -- where there's a running joke of the hopelessly clueless bigot Aunt Jessica makes an ass out of herself by using that term.
Not to mention the belligerence. Do you think he drinks excessively?
Sure is a friendly one, isn't he! I bet he has a lot of useful advice on how to jolly along a diverse construction crew!
Useful in that you know to ignore it.
So your burly builders liked homos. Not all do. Like I said, it is important that all the workforce get on well.
Wow, you really are intent on proving Lewis's Law. Keep digging, son.
When the evaluation of candidates is biased by the kind of bigotry you exhibit, for example, then the best person for the job is not going to be chosen. It will be the young white heterosexual man over people who were actually more qualified and experienced than him. Cheryl Fillekes, for example.
Aaaand Lewis's Law Proved Again!
And this is relevant how? We go to work to work. That's why it's called work.
... But their social interests, hobbies, and family lives likely have little to do with yours, unless you're a bachelor who has no interest in work/family life balance.
Oh, so any older woman MUST be more interested in work as a "social activity" or "hobby", MUST have a "family life", MUST have "interest in work/family life balance" and so forth, and this must match the level of "interest in work/family life balance" among the people she works with?
Do you have any idea how bigoted you sound?
Maybe it's the fact that as a nerd's nerd who never had a family she would fit in all too well if she were a man, and actually knows a whole lot more STEM than they do -- that STEM that guys always try to beat girls over the "don't you worry your pretty little" head with.
"She is ugly."
Wow you never hear that about a man evaluating her qualifications for a job!
Are you trying to prove Lewis's Law by any chance?
Reading some of your other posts, I would say your bigotry and abusive personality is pretty ugly.
And with all the social misfits in software development, the minute a highly qualified woman shows up, the most important thing is suddenly "social fit"?
Really?
You must not know many programmers, socially or otherwise, Mr. Fly!
Of course, you might also be in one of those countries that has made it so hard to fire someone that companies don't want to hire. France has this problem at the moment. Worker rights are nice and all, but the more they have the less competitive a company is. We live in a global marketplace these days, so you have to compete as such.
Oh, so you want to compete with coders in undeveloped countries making pennies an hour, Mr. FlyHelicopters!
Enjoy your race to the bottom!
Hey, Fly (can I call you 'Fly'?). What's more disgusting than a pile of dead workers?
The live one at the bottom trying to eat his way to the top.
That would be you, in a "global marketplace" where people are literally worked to death.
A more civilized solution, of course, would be for worker's rights to be respected in all countries such that it were a level playing field.
Lord you are an idiot... People offered jobs does not and SHOULD not match the demographics of the applications... Just because 25% of the people who apply are old, or black, or anything else doesn't mean that 25% should be hired. They might not be qualified.
So you assume that "the people who apply are old, or black, or anything else" are unlikely to be qualified at all, much less be more qualified than a young white man. Nice.
Nice to see you serving up a healthy dose of personal abuse with your bigotry.
Who else do you repeatedly and belligerently call 'idiot'?
Oh, right, the juries who actually enforce these "unenforceable" laws. Hmmm.
Right. Making young men happy, making sure THEY work more efficiently is what it's all about -- and screw every body else.
Is that your point? Gee, I wonder why all the engineers in these places are young white men, when it's just accepted that the environment should be designed around their fragile emotional need to have their egos and sexuality flattered by the hiring of strictly ornamental female staff.
I wonder if that whole idea of the proper role of women at work as "Pretty Secretary Who Makes Men Happy" has anything to do with their exclusion of older female engineers whose education experience and qualifications intimidate both the Young White Men and their Pretty Secretaries?
Just sayin.
"a secretary that's nice to look at, then so be it - the morale of the other employees will rise."
Lewis's Law at work again
You must have meant "the DONGLES of the MALE employees will rise"
There, I fixed it for you.
You're like one of those cartoon characters that has an angry defensive outburst whenever someone disagrees with him, tsotha.
And then gets particularly petulant and childish, screaming and stomping around, when it's pointed out -- how defensive, petulant and childish you're behaving.
Hilarious. Thanks for the lulz, sucker.
"The Best" is the most experienced, mature, knowledgeable and energetic, not the most young, glib, flighty, egotistical and error-prone.
By basing their evaluations on age and gender stereotypes and not accomplishment and skill that are a reliable predictor of future success, they're just setting themselves up for....well, you saw what idiots they made of themselves when Snowden revealed part of the story. "We never helped them Spookers!!!" screamed Google Senior Management. Then Snowden released the fact that, well, actually, the DOD and NSA had paid Google quite a lot of money for some rather compromising contractual work that involved setting up black servers to siphon off data...for...wait for it...No Such Agency! It was hilarious.
Those of us who have worked with spooks would have known better in the first place, but...
Guess they chose wrong. In so many ways. But that's their problem now, isn't it?
Well enough of them certainly act like children. Just read your own petulant comments.
But when an older woman has actually displayed all of the same career moves including NO "gap in employment" it's somehow "a new job" and "can't expect the same pay" and "she needs to be retrained" and "it's a new career" as if she was somebody's bloody secretary retraining as a dental technician? With a PhD in computational mathematical physics from the University of Chicago? Really?
Call me old-fashioned, last I heard, a PhD at an elite institution and programming year after year for 20 years in academic and research settings from the age of 15 to finishing your last postdoc at 35 in computational physics (not to mention actually building and sysadminning all the Unix boxes the programming was done on, plus pulling the cable and integrating them into N+1 different networks) kinda qualifies you to actually program for a living without it being considered "a new career" or "a new job."
And when the time spent from 35 to 55 is actually working as a programmer , not "taking 20 years off" it's assumed that she "changed careers" at 45? Can you people count?
No, it's just an indication of the double standard. Young men all over the industry are constantly being excused for everything under the sun, up to and including the criminal offense of attempted rape because "they lack people skills" whereas an "old woman" as you say (BTW boyo, 72 is "old woman", 55 is "mature seasoned professional) is going to be told she "lacks people skills" if she offendeth an egomaniac brogrammer by gasp! finding and fixing a bug in his code.
Again, demonstrating the variation on Lewis' Law, that the comments on a post protesting discrimination will demonstrate exactly why such protest was made. 47 is more than 15 years to retirement, and 55 is at least 10. This is "close to retirement" in an industry where people rarely stay in a job more than 2 or 3 years?
I had been at one job for over a year when the owner was like "So when are you going to have kids?!?" I was like, "I'm nearly 50. You've heard of this thing called Menopause?" He started and was like, "but you're only in your mid-30's." "Thanks but..." "Well that's what we thought when we hired you..." I started looking for another job like that week.
nt
"a REALISTIC view of the industry and where YOU fit." Oh, please. And when, despite the highest qualifications, women, people of color, and older people are for "cultural fit" reasons disproportionately excluded, the only way to get that situation investigated is to file suit. If you put a bunch of white frat boys in a room, obviously they're going to assume that someone old enough to be one of their parents has in fact devoted half their life to being a parent, that a black guy showing up is the janitor, and a woman coming in had better be young and pretty and there to be sexually assaulted, not someone who looks like they could easily put them in a chokehold and break both their arms if they tried.
An extremely large organization has many many different groups to work in, so rejection by one group on dubious grounds does not rule out working with a different team, and don't forget: They called her. So this isn't Charlie Brown believing Lucy Lucy Lucy Lucy with the Football Football Football Football, it's Charlie Brown believing Lucy, then Linus, then Pigpen, then Snoopy -- all for participation in different games.
Not that much different than a PhD oral exam at a place like The University of Chicago in the Physical Sciences, in other words. Except at UC the interviewers are actually qualified to make a judgment based on the response, not the size of the candidates' bustline or number of grey hairs on her head.