One of the problems with democracy is that it makes the little guy feel like his voice matters, so it removes the incentive to revolt over grossly unfair gov't. Democracy is probably the best tool for tyrants, given time to accustom the populace to thinking their vote matters, so there's no need for a bloody revolt, eh?
Yes, but that's not what I read from the descriptions. Rather, it behaves as if one had abruptly pushed the pedal further down. That's not something that happens because it "sticks".
When my truck was new, its accelerator would occasionally stick (nothing a swift kick couldn't fix, being it is old enough to be 100% mechanical) and I can therefore attest that with mechanical stiction, you do NOT experience a sudden *increase* in acceleration. It simply fails to ease off when your foot does.
Well, we shall see if it fixes the problem... As one poster pointed out, a sticking mechanical assembly would make the throttle stay at the last point your foot put it, but it would NOT cause acceleration without pressure on the pedal -- which apparently IS the problem per some reports.
I do expect Toyota is doing a lot of media damage control, if only to avoid being caught in lawsuit hell.
I think that's true to a large extent -- I know in some types of casual written (e.g. online) conversations, I'll use deliberately bad grammar because it's what "feels appropriate" -- it's slang for multiple words, so to speak. But that is completely different from not knowing correct grammar in the first place.
Here's an explanation that geeks and programmers should grok, of why grammar isn't just stuffy old-fashioned nonsense:
Grammar is like algrebra (and sometimes like calculus) for words. It's a compendium of formulae that make word functions work correctly. If you don't know the formula, you won't know when your words are malfunctioning.
I learned to drive in Montana... during a stretch of some of the worst winters of the 20th century. There are a lot of Peculiar Tricks that are hard to describe but become natural to do after a few seasons of snow and ice.
And personally I'll take RWD over FWD any day, especially since I'm usually hauling a load. Worst thing in the world is FWD with a load in the back, swaying its way down the icy road.
What happens with the electronics if there is no electricity in the system?? How do they keep working?? I suppose they don't. I'm not sure how this scenario would happen, but I have seen 'suddenly dead battery' (which might have been a croaked alternator, I dunno) cause electronic door latches to stop working. (Rear door on my neighbour's old van is 100% electronically controlled. When the van one day had no juice, we couldn't use that door, and it has no inside latch.)
Yep... fuel injection may be more efficient, but I watch a constant parade of expensive fuel-related problems going thru my mechanic's front door, and am somehow made pleased as hell with my old spring-and-cable-driven carb. It does irk me that to get what I'll need in the next truck, I'll be robbed of some of that simplicity and reliability.
Absofuckinglutely. There are three critical systems: brakes, steering, and throttle. All three need to have at the very least a fully mechanical backup which will ALWAYS operate, at least good enough to control the vehicle -- no matter if the electronics have croaked or are afflicted by a bug, or if the engine has cut out, or whatever else has quit working.
Any other design is just plain irresponsible.
But as I said in another post, I think a lot of this is EPA-driven -- reduce weight to make the MPG requirements. Electronics weigh less than mechanicals.
My '78 Ford F-100 pickup (fullsize, not the wimpy thing that later designated) has only turned over twice, but it totally agrees with your old Econoline. Simple, mechanical, and foolproof. Stuff can wear out, but it can't randomly not-work due to some hidden software bug.
And while I'm kinda half-shopping for a fresher truck (mainly cuz I need one with more towing capacity)... I've decided not to look at anything after '96 in a gas engine or '97 in a diesel (and then only cuz the '97 Ford diesel has essentially a 1995 body and bed) because that's about where the complexity multiplies once too often (and some other things change that I can't live with, like cab style and bed size).
I totally agree. You should hear what every mechanic I've ever known has to say about the engineers who design modern cars -- none of it good!
I think there's another factor at work, too -- the same one that pushed the shift to front-wheel drive: Weight reduction, so the vehicle can make the EPA-mandated gas mileage. Electronics weigh a fraction of what mechanical parts do.
My observation (based on hanging out in the work bays when I'm at the mechanic) is that electronics are much more likely to do a "mystery fail" or a partial/intermittent fail at random intervals, and can be far harder to diagnose. Whereas a mechanical part either works, or struggles regularly (so you get the message that something is wrong), or fails outright, but you can usually find the failure, and it's unlikely to randomly surprise you as you're driving down the road.
I'm sure if we don't mind paying... oh, I'd guess the absolute bottom end would be around a quarter-million...for our consumer vehicles, the same sort of "roadworthyness directives" could be applied... look up the price of an 18 wheeler, or a helicopter, and get back to me.
Regardless of which is given priority... I'll bet those cars are real fun to drive on glare ice, where you may need to be constantly nursing both the brake AND the throttle, to maintain traction and control direction.
Yeah, but your big rig costs 10 times as much and probably has 10 times the engineering quality as well. Your statement that the brain lasts a million miles or so goes to prove that: My mechanic does a roaring business replacing defective brains in newish consumer autos, most of which haven't hit 100,000 miles yet (actually, more like 30,000 miles).
Don't forget their employers -- the privatized, for-profit prison industry.
But the real story here is Nava's run for Atty.General, and "my new law would have made people report this heinous crime!" will read well on this con artist's resume. That he's being egged on by the prison guard union should shock no one.
What is really scary is how much legislation is passed in CA that contains the words "This would create a new crime". I wonder if it's even *possible* to live here now without committing SOME crime??
You are absolutely right, and our Constitution says much the same. I think we need mandatory reporting of lawmakers who violate this.;)
As soon as you start adding specific requirements to your short list, as the Norske below suggests, you start growing gov't into areas that are none of its business, because you can't get that specific without *first* generating things like a social welfare dept, and it balloons from there.
Case in point, compared to CA, MT spends about 1/4th (I'm too lazy to look up the actual numbers, but it's in that neighbourhood) as much per student, yet MT is typically in the top few states in testing like Iowa Basics, and has a much higher HS completion and university-bound rate than CA, which is probably as good a metric as any.
You are right, but... Knowing how Nava thinks, this is intended as a blanket "you WILL be a snitch, or else" law, and once on the books, will be expanded (or at least enforced) to cover forced reporting of every offense any citizen observes, all the way down to jaywalking.
When you can't trust your neighbour because you know they'll turn you in for any little violation, it destroys personal trust, and increases the power of gov't thugs because there is no one else you CAN trust.
=======
"You should not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harm it would cause if improperly administered."
-- Lyndon Johnson, 36th President of the U.S.
Slashdot Mirror
One wonders what happens if they were reported to themselves ... perhaps they'd be caught in an endless loop, a fate richly deserved.
And it would be legit, since they are encouraging 'hate' against certain websites.
One of the problems with democracy is that it makes the little guy feel like his voice matters, so it removes the incentive to revolt over grossly unfair gov't. Democracy is probably the best tool for tyrants, given time to accustom the populace to thinking their vote matters, so there's no need for a bloody revolt, eh?
Here's a question for you:
If democracy works so well, why is it devolving into this same sort of scenario everywhere we look?
If democracy works so well, why are we now in the position of having to vote the bastards out? how did they get voted in to start with??
An AC with 1337 proofreading skilz comments,
OK, I'll bite: WTF is "algrebra"?
Apparently it's a new and different typo, which looked so natural that it passed into the language of the day :D
Yes, but that's not what I read from the descriptions. Rather, it behaves as if one had abruptly pushed the pedal further down. That's not something that happens because it "sticks".
When my truck was new, its accelerator would occasionally stick (nothing a swift kick couldn't fix, being it is old enough to be 100% mechanical) and I can therefore attest that with mechanical stiction, you do NOT experience a sudden *increase* in acceleration. It simply fails to ease off when your foot does.
Well, we shall see if it fixes the problem... As one poster pointed out, a sticking mechanical assembly would make the throttle stay at the last point your foot put it, but it would NOT cause acceleration without pressure on the pedal -- which apparently IS the problem per some reports.
I do expect Toyota is doing a lot of media damage control, if only to avoid being caught in lawsuit hell.
I think that's true to a large extent -- I know in some types of casual written (e.g. online) conversations, I'll use deliberately bad grammar because it's what "feels appropriate" -- it's slang for multiple words, so to speak. But that is completely different from not knowing correct grammar in the first place.
Here's an explanation that geeks and programmers should grok, of why grammar isn't just stuffy old-fashioned nonsense:
Grammar is like algrebra (and sometimes like calculus) for words. It's a compendium of formulae that make word functions work correctly. If you don't know the formula, you won't know when your words are malfunctioning.
Not according to later independent reports (which some posts above do reference). Everything points to screwy electronics.
I learned to drive in Montana... during a stretch of some of the worst winters of the 20th century. There are a lot of Peculiar Tricks that are hard to describe but become natural to do after a few seasons of snow and ice.
And personally I'll take RWD over FWD any day, especially since I'm usually hauling a load. Worst thing in the world is FWD with a load in the back, swaying its way down the icy road.
What happens with the electronics if there is no electricity in the system?? How do they keep working?? I suppose they don't. I'm not sure how this scenario would happen, but I have seen 'suddenly dead battery' (which might have been a croaked alternator, I dunno) cause electronic door latches to stop working. (Rear door on my neighbour's old van is 100% electronically controlled. When the van one day had no juice, we couldn't use that door, and it has no inside latch.)
Yep... fuel injection may be more efficient, but I watch a constant parade of expensive fuel-related problems going thru my mechanic's front door, and am somehow made pleased as hell with my old spring-and-cable-driven carb. It does irk me that to get what I'll need in the next truck, I'll be robbed of some of that simplicity and reliability.
Absofuckinglutely. There are three critical systems: brakes, steering, and throttle. All three need to have at the very least a fully mechanical backup which will ALWAYS operate, at least good enough to control the vehicle -- no matter if the electronics have croaked or are afflicted by a bug, or if the engine has cut out, or whatever else has quit working.
Any other design is just plain irresponsible.
But as I said in another post, I think a lot of this is EPA-driven -- reduce weight to make the MPG requirements. Electronics weigh less than mechanicals.
My '78 Ford F-100 pickup (fullsize, not the wimpy thing that later designated) has only turned over twice, but it totally agrees with your old Econoline. Simple, mechanical, and foolproof. Stuff can wear out, but it can't randomly not-work due to some hidden software bug.
And while I'm kinda half-shopping for a fresher truck (mainly cuz I need one with more towing capacity) ... I've decided not to look at anything after '96 in a gas engine or '97 in a diesel (and then only cuz the '97 Ford diesel has essentially a 1995 body and bed) because that's about where the complexity multiplies once too often (and some other things change that I can't live with, like cab style and bed size).
I totally agree. You should hear what every mechanic I've ever known has to say about the engineers who design modern cars -- none of it good!
I think there's another factor at work, too -- the same one that pushed the shift to front-wheel drive: Weight reduction, so the vehicle can make the EPA-mandated gas mileage. Electronics weigh a fraction of what mechanical parts do.
My observation (based on hanging out in the work bays when I'm at the mechanic) is that electronics are much more likely to do a "mystery fail" or a partial/intermittent fail at random intervals, and can be far harder to diagnose. Whereas a mechanical part either works, or struggles regularly (so you get the message that something is wrong), or fails outright, but you can usually find the failure, and it's unlikely to randomly surprise you as you're driving down the road.
Push-button transmissions were actually done back several decades (1950s-60s, I forget exactly). They were not a success.
I'm sure if we don't mind paying... oh, I'd guess the absolute bottom end would be around a quarter-million ...for our consumer vehicles, the same sort of "roadworthyness directives" could be applied... look up the price of an 18 wheeler, or a helicopter, and get back to me.
Regardless of which is given priority... I'll bet those cars are real fun to drive on glare ice, where you may need to be constantly nursing both the brake AND the throttle, to maintain traction and control direction.
Yeah, but your big rig costs 10 times as much and probably has 10 times the engineering quality as well. Your statement that the brain lasts a million miles or so goes to prove that: My mechanic does a roaring business replacing defective brains in newish consumer autos, most of which haven't hit 100,000 miles yet (actually, more like 30,000 miles).
Napalm, of course! ;)
Don't forget their employers -- the privatized, for-profit prison industry.
But the real story here is Nava's run for Atty.General, and "my new law would have made people report this heinous crime!" will read well on this con artist's resume. That he's being egged on by the prison guard union should shock no one.
What is really scary is how much legislation is passed in CA that contains the words "This would create a new crime". I wonder if it's even *possible* to live here now without committing SOME crime??
You hit the nail on the head. Pedro Nava wants to be California's Attorney General:
http://www.pedronava.com/
So what's the first step? Some really visible legislation to make himself look "tough on crime".
This isn't his first such foray into feelgood legislation in pursuit of his elective goals. He's been at it for some time now.
And don't forget the corollary --
All things not compulsory are forbidden.
[plaintively] Can I come live in your country??
You are absolutely right, and our Constitution says much the same. I think we need mandatory reporting of lawmakers who violate this. ;)
As soon as you start adding specific requirements to your short list, as the Norske below suggests, you start growing gov't into areas that are none of its business, because you can't get that specific without *first* generating things like a social welfare dept, and it balloons from there.
Case in point, compared to CA, MT spends about 1/4th (I'm too lazy to look up the actual numbers, but it's in that neighbourhood) as much per student, yet MT is typically in the top few states in testing like Iowa Basics, and has a much higher HS completion and university-bound rate than CA, which is probably as good a metric as any.
You are right, but... Knowing how Nava thinks, this is intended as a blanket "you WILL be a snitch, or else" law, and once on the books, will be expanded (or at least enforced) to cover forced reporting of every offense any citizen observes, all the way down to jaywalking.
When you can't trust your neighbour because you know they'll turn you in for any little violation, it destroys personal trust, and increases the power of gov't thugs because there is no one else you CAN trust.
=======
"You should not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harm it would cause if improperly administered."
-- Lyndon Johnson, 36th President of the U.S.