IIRC eudev was basically a clueless rage fork by a couple of guys from Gentoo, their motivation seemingly centered around a dislike for udev/systemd developers. One of the first things they did was to apply a different indent style throughout the repository. So you can imagine where it could go from there.
Since Ubuntu are no longer using Wayland, how could it possibly matter any longer?
I guess it's a troll, but I'll bite. In case you are simply deluded, there are other Linux distributions in this wide world, and not all of them are driven by a businessman with a huge control motive. Canonical's NIH solution will be largely ignored outside Ubuntu, as have been Bazaar and Upstart. Hope this helps.
The problem, as I understand it, is that iOS background model for apps is not conductive to pre-existing protocols like XMPP. For networking, if you want to react while in background, you have to use Apple's push notification service. On the other hand, for a compliant XMPP client, you have to keep a network socket to the server open at all times.
There is nothing about it that cannot be fixed with an extension standardized through the XEP process.
But I guess "being open" is too much trouble for Google these days. Look at their U-turn about CalDAV, not long after delivering a lecture on openness to Microsoft when EOLing their public Exchange support.
Let's make that more clear. The programmers used it wrong, so let's invent a whole new language. Right.
No, no. C++ is a badly designed language and it is often misused by the programmers.
If you're inventing a language, you know how to build a compiler. Write one for Scala. Or use Go.
A programming language is not just a syntax. It comes with a runtime environment, internal representation of data, and standard libraries. Scala and Go make different design choices on important matters, meaning a straightforward conversion from Rust to these languages is impractical. And it's not needed, because Rust is, by development, a frontend to LLVM. So, we get a modern, concurrency-friendly language to the compiler backend that can compile to binaries or work JIT if required.
Go, meh. It missed so many important things that the question "what does this new language give me to make it worth learning?" applies to it more acutely.
The comments look as though at some point Slashdot turned into a gathering of cantankerous change-haters. Was your soup cold again today at the care home's canteen, grandpas?
This is actually the first really exciting language I heard about in a while, on so many points. It absorbs a lot of the FP syntactic sugar and type concepts without turning into a Haskell. Like Erlang, it provides the shared-nothing actor model for concurrent programming at the language level, instead of mucking with threads and global state directly. You seem to be allowed to take your C/C++ libraries along (perhaps with some glue). Rigorous safety is probably not for everybody, but it's generally appreciated in large, network-facing projects. It's not tied to the JVM like Scala. And thank goodness, finally there's a language working with real Unicode characters natively, stepping outside the 1990s-era trap that was UTF-16 (the internal string representation in Rust is UTF-8).
As I said quite clearly it has flaws and frustrations but I think it's a sound desktop. It's clean, simple, work oriented, discoverable, attractive and easy to use. I share frustration at the over simplicity of the control panel but I'm not about to pretend it's "unusable" or that we should all revert to kitchen-sink style KDE or GNOME 2 for the sake of that.
Heh, someone's calling GNOME 2 a "kitchen sink". It seems we have come full circle...
Ack! I've been bothered by this too (but not too much; I mainly use the Linux desktop for work nowadays, which does not require dealing with all those annoying human languages). Now I learn that they have provided an interim solution after all, and proper fixes are on the way. Great! Wait... your comment was supposed to point out how uncooperative the developers are? I guess by the prevalent opinion on this site, they should have immediately prostrated in infinite shame before everybody who has obtained GNOME for free, and locked themselves in a remote hermitage for a solemn hackfest to last until all the conflicting outside opinions on implementing the UI are addressed. Do it, or face the Slashdot rage!
XKB has always been a wretched hive of complexity where no sane human should dare to step in. It tells a lot that nobody came forward to fix this bug for seven years, and it's still not mainlined. Not that iBus looks much better, though... I hope they will provide something more sensible atop Wayland.
For example, what the hell happened to the basic control panel, with simple, logically named areas and which contained the whole sum of just about anything that 99% of users would want to tweak? The windows 2k/xp control panel was nothing to write home about, but compared with the overdesigned crapola that's in vista/7, it's a godsend. This is not better. It's worse.
What do you know, there are people who actually liked the old control panel better. Then again, the comments here are full of people with Stockholm syndrome for the Start menu... I always felt stupefied trying to find the item I need in the crowded, alphabetically sorted list, especially when I did not remember the exact item I needed. In Win 7 it's more hierarchical.
Also, what part of a project dating from way back is not legacy?
You are saying this as if there is some functionality problem from the project being more than a few years old. Surely KDE has a lot of legacy too? Are you happy with the developments that led to Phonon (where the most widely used backend on Linux is, ironically, GStreamer)?
As for your bizarre love of G_OBJECT... I don't know how to react to that... It's a bit like a priest admitting a really nasty kink whilst preaching to a group of nuns. You want objects and inheritance and introspection ? Use a language which supports that. C is not meant to be used that way.
Don't tell me in what ways C can or cannot be used. I may consider it a challenge:-)
You like GTK? use gtkmm.
Umm, no. If I want to use a more productive language than C, there are a few viable options, but C++ is not one of them.
Also, the GNOME core team knows this. And because they have decided c++ is anathema, they keep coming up with new languages-of-the-day each sold as the standard for future GNOME apps. There was C# and mono.
Heh, how much this KDE fanboy knows. Mono was never popular outside of a clique centered around Miguel de Icaza, and neither the platform nor the desktop ever depended on it.
These days it is Vala. Of course, it'll never work, because you have to pick a language which is not yours (so Vala won't work)
What the hell does this even mean? Among other things, Vala allows you to create libraries that are fully usable from C, or any other languages that can work with GObject introspection. Try that with C++.
The gnome 3 "menu" sucks because it requires the user to know exactly (or even generally as someone else mentioned) what they are looking for.
Huh? It is categorized exactly like GNOME 2, since it's collected from largely the same.desktop files. Moreover, the initial view shows all applications at once, and categories work like filtering. If anything, it facilitates random exploration.
And seriously? "moar applicashunz"? Are they LOLcats?
:-) I'm sure the en_US string is proper English; this was just me being silly.
Some high profile projects use GTK, but this is nearly always for historical reasons.
Um, I don't imagine Firefox or Eclipse switching off from GTK+ any time soon. Considering that it just grew a functional Wayland backend ahead of Qt, it's not even clear-cut which one is "the best tech". Anything that does not involve C++, but provides a dynamically introspectable object model for language bindings earns quite a few cred points with me.
How do you launch something when you don't know its name? Sit a newbie down in front of gnome panel and they'll never find all of the "hidden" programs.
You've never really tried it, have you? There's that nice big button at the bottom of the dash bar, captioned "moar applicashunz" or something in your locale language. Clicking it displays anything that has a.desktop item installed in one of the few well-known locations like/usr/share/applications, unless it excludes GNOME with OnlyShowIn property. The items are nicely categorized based on the same.desktop file properties that gave the old GNOME menu its structure. Before 3.6, it was a bit more difficult: the navigation item was not another button on the bar, but a tab at the top of the screen that read "Applications" to everyone's utter confusion.
With that kind of attitude, what's your beef with Windows 8? The home screen is clearly better than the Start menu, and you can ignore any Metro apps.
With GNOME 3, the only extension I installed was alternate-tab (to all the moaners about the lack of customizability: what, being able to override the default UI behavior with some JavaScript is not geeky enough for you?). Almost the first thing I did was to find the terminal launcher and pin it to the launch bar. It's not hard to search or browse for every application that provides a.desktop item and pin the ones you need, and circa 3.6 it's become even more intuitive. I'm really looking forward to installing 3.8. Maybe they've fixed the keyboard shortcuts that are broken as of Fedora 18.
Basically, the company is obliged by its shareholders to make money in any legal way. Milking the patent system is one such way. The answer is to fix the system.
I used to have tons of respect for Nokia. Then one of their employees got VLC knocked off the Apple App Store for incredibly selfish reasons (certainly didn't help VLCs market share).
What makes you think it was the company's doing? The guy had been developing VLC since before he came to Nokia, and he correctly pointed out that Apple store's terms of use are incompatible with the licensing of VLC, while everybody else were going "lalalaaa, I don't want to hear anything, let me have VLC on my locked down iPhone because I love free software".
I won't even get into the subject of "VLCs market share". Who develops open software to grab market share, anyway?
You are kidding right? The Maemo / Meego N900 and N97 received great reviews by people who actually used them.
You seem to be confusing N9 with N97; funny, because the latter was perhaps Nokia's lowest fall. Yes, the several hundred thousand Linux enthusiasts gave the devices great reviews. There were not-so-great reviews too, but our memory is selective... Now Lumia phones receive great reviews too.
I hope the community does not fork again (C++ vs 0x11) with boost vs Qt.
There is not much of a united community to split along these lines. Pragmatic developers and open source folks tend to use Qt. Wankers who like complexity for complexity's sake, and some developers who build monolithic applications for in-house use may prefer Boost. It's very impractical to use Boost with reusable code, which for the past couple decades means shared libraries. The generative programming wankers who have been shaping the design of C++ never noticed the importance of shared library support. You never expose definition-heavy classes as your library ABI.
Ok, but on the other hand you can also end up with things like GTK.
You mean like, an object model that provides dynamic signal-slot binding, properties, introspection, and bindings to really productive high level languages such as JavaScript and Vala? Count me in favor.
Well, the article says good things about freeloaders, not self-entitled whiners who think the developer community owes them the exact implementation of their wishes, all else be damned.
Slashdot Mirror
IIRC eudev was basically a clueless rage fork by a couple of guys from Gentoo, their motivation seemingly centered around a dislike for udev/systemd developers.
One of the first things they did was to apply a different indent style throughout the repository. So you can imagine where it could go from there.
Since Ubuntu are no longer using Wayland, how could it possibly matter any longer?
I guess it's a troll, but I'll bite.
In case you are simply deluded, there are other Linux distributions in this wide world, and not all of them are driven by a businessman with a huge control motive. Canonical's NIH solution will be largely ignored outside Ubuntu, as have been Bazaar and Upstart.
Hope this helps.
The problem, as I understand it, is that iOS background model for apps is not conductive to pre-existing protocols like XMPP. For networking, if you want to react while in background, you have to use Apple's push notification service. On the other hand, for a compliant XMPP client, you have to keep a network socket to the server open at all times.
There is nothing about it that cannot be fixed with an extension standardized through the XEP process.
But I guess "being open" is too much trouble for Google these days. Look at their U-turn about CalDAV, not long after delivering a lecture on openness to Microsoft when EOLing their public Exchange support.
Thank you for describing that mess. The only thing I don't understand is why you are calling it "well-designed".
I see. But why are you, a cubicle peon, slacking off on Slashdot when it's only 4.36 pm? Your manager wants those PHPs done yesterday!
Let's make that more clear. The programmers used it wrong, so let's invent a whole new language. Right.
No, no. C++ is a badly designed language and it is often misused by the programmers.
If you're inventing a language, you know how to build a compiler. Write one for Scala. Or use Go.
A programming language is not just a syntax. It comes with a runtime environment, internal representation of data, and standard libraries. Scala and Go make different design choices on important matters, meaning a straightforward conversion from Rust to these languages is impractical. And it's not needed, because Rust is, by development, a frontend to LLVM. So, we get a modern, concurrency-friendly language to the compiler backend that can compile to binaries or work JIT if required.
Go, meh. It missed so many important things that the question "what does this new language give me to make it worth learning?" applies to it more acutely.
What concepts does Rust introduce that aren't already present in the latest C++ standard?
Too many to enumerate, but the main one is: not being a crazy impractical language which so many programmers were ill-taught to use.
Which aren't already present in Scala?
Not using a Java VM.
Doing actual Unicode natively, not the UTF-16 bastardization of it.
Which aren't already present in Go?
I'll let the FAQ take this one...
The comments look as though at some point Slashdot turned into a gathering of cantankerous change-haters. Was your soup cold again today at the care home's canteen, grandpas?
This is actually the first really exciting language I heard about in a while, on so many points. It absorbs a lot of the FP syntactic sugar and type concepts without turning into a Haskell. Like Erlang, it provides the shared-nothing actor model for concurrent programming at the language level, instead of mucking with threads and global state directly. You seem to be allowed to take your C/C++ libraries along (perhaps with some glue). Rigorous safety is probably not for everybody, but it's generally appreciated in large, network-facing projects. It's not tied to the JVM like Scala. And thank goodness, finally there's a language working with real Unicode characters natively, stepping outside the 1990s-era trap that was UTF-16 (the internal string representation in Rust is UTF-8).
Yeah, "let's ignore India and Russia as insignificant markets" would sound so clever in any business meeting.
As I said quite clearly it has flaws and frustrations but I think it's a sound desktop. It's clean, simple, work oriented, discoverable, attractive and easy to use. I share frustration at the over simplicity of the control panel but I'm not about to pretend it's "unusable" or that we should all revert to kitchen-sink style KDE or GNOME 2 for the sake of that.
Heh, someone's calling GNOME 2 a "kitchen sink". It seems we have come full circle...
Ack! I've been bothered by this too (but not too much; I mainly use the Linux desktop for work nowadays, which does not require dealing with all those annoying human languages). Now I learn that they have provided an interim solution after all, and proper fixes are on the way. Great! Wait... your comment was supposed to point out how uncooperative the developers are? I guess by the prevalent opinion on this site, they should have immediately prostrated in infinite shame before everybody who has obtained GNOME for free, and locked themselves in a remote hermitage for a solemn hackfest to last until all the conflicting outside opinions on implementing the UI are addressed. Do it, or face the Slashdot rage!
XKB has always been a wretched hive of complexity where no sane human should dare to step in. It tells a lot that nobody came forward to fix this bug for seven years, and it's still not mainlined. Not that iBus looks much better, though... I hope they will provide something more sensible atop Wayland.
For example, what the hell happened to the basic control panel, with simple, logically named areas and which contained the whole sum of just about anything that 99% of users would want to tweak? The windows 2k/xp control panel was nothing to write home about, but compared with the overdesigned crapola that's in vista/7, it's a godsend. This is not better. It's worse.
What do you know, there are people who actually liked the old control panel better. Then again, the comments here are full of people with Stockholm syndrome for the Start menu... I always felt stupefied trying to find the item I need in the crowded, alphabetically sorted list, especially when I did not remember the exact item I needed. In Win 7 it's more hierarchical.
Also, what part of a project dating from way back is not legacy?
You are saying this as if there is some functionality problem from the project being more than a few years old. Surely KDE has a lot of legacy too? Are you happy with the developments that led to Phonon (where the most widely used backend on Linux is, ironically, GStreamer)?
As for your bizarre love of G_OBJECT... I don't know how to react to that... It's a bit like a priest admitting a really nasty kink whilst preaching to a group of nuns. You want objects and inheritance and introspection ? Use a language which supports that. C is not meant to be used that way.
Don't tell me in what ways C can or cannot be used. I may consider it a challenge :-)
You like GTK? use gtkmm.
Umm, no. If I want to use a more productive language than C, there are a few viable options, but C++ is not one of them.
Also, the GNOME core team knows this. And because they have decided c++ is anathema, they keep coming up with new languages-of-the-day each sold as the standard for future GNOME apps. There was C# and mono.
Heh, how much this KDE fanboy knows. Mono was never popular outside of a clique centered around Miguel de Icaza, and neither the platform nor the desktop ever depended on it.
These days it is Vala. Of course, it'll never work, because you have to pick a language which is not yours (so Vala won't work)
What the hell does this even mean? Among other things, Vala allows you to create libraries that are fully usable from C, or any other languages that can work with GObject introspection. Try that with C++.
Basically, you have C, C++, and possibly Java.
And JavaScript, and Python, and...
The gnome 3 "menu" sucks because it requires the user to know exactly (or even generally as someone else mentioned) what they are looking for.
Huh? It is categorized exactly like GNOME 2, since it's collected from largely the same .desktop files. Moreover, the initial view shows all applications at once, and categories work like filtering. If anything, it facilitates random exploration.
And seriously? "moar applicashunz"? Are they LOLcats?
:-) I'm sure the en_US string is proper English; this was just me being silly.
They have by far the best tech.
Nice start, fanboy.
Some high profile projects use GTK, but this is nearly always for historical reasons.
Um, I don't imagine Firefox or Eclipse switching off from GTK+ any time soon. Considering that it just grew a functional Wayland backend ahead of Qt, it's not even clear-cut which one is "the best tech". Anything that does not involve C++, but provides a dynamically introspectable object model for language bindings earns quite a few cred points with me.
How do you launch something when you don't know its name? Sit a newbie down in front of gnome panel and they'll never find all of the "hidden" programs.
You've never really tried it, have you? .desktop item installed in one of the few well-known locations like /usr/share/applications, unless it excludes GNOME with OnlyShowIn property. The items are nicely categorized based on the same .desktop file properties that gave the old GNOME menu its structure. Before 3.6, it was a bit more difficult: the navigation item was not another button on the bar, but a tab at the top of the screen that read "Applications" to everyone's utter confusion.
There's that nice big button at the bottom of the dash bar, captioned "moar applicashunz" or something in your locale language. Clicking it displays anything that has a
With that kind of attitude, what's your beef with Windows 8? The home screen is clearly better than the Start menu, and you can ignore any Metro apps.
With GNOME 3, the only extension I installed was alternate-tab (to all the moaners about the lack of customizability: what, being able to override the default UI behavior with some JavaScript is not geeky enough for you?). Almost the first thing I did was to find the terminal launcher and pin it to the launch bar. It's not hard to search or browse for every application that provides a .desktop item and pin the ones you need, and circa 3.6 it's become even more intuitive. I'm really looking forward to installing 3.8. Maybe they've fixed the keyboard shortcuts that are broken as of Fedora 18.
Basically, the company is obliged by its shareholders to make money in any legal way. Milking the patent system is one such way. The answer is to fix the system.
I used to have tons of respect for Nokia. Then one of their employees got VLC knocked off the Apple App Store for incredibly selfish reasons (certainly didn't help VLCs market share).
What makes you think it was the company's doing? The guy had been developing VLC since before he came to Nokia, and he correctly pointed out that Apple store's terms of use are incompatible with the licensing of VLC, while everybody else were going "lalalaaa, I don't want to hear anything, let me have VLC on my locked down iPhone because I love free software".
I won't even get into the subject of "VLCs market share". Who develops open software to grab market share, anyway?
You are kidding right? The Maemo / Meego N900 and N97 received great reviews by people who actually used them.
You seem to be confusing N9 with N97; funny, because the latter was perhaps Nokia's lowest fall.
Yes, the several hundred thousand Linux enthusiasts gave the devices great reviews. There were not-so-great reviews too, but our memory is selective... Now Lumia phones receive great reviews too.
That's when they dumped the world's most popular phone OS
Gosh how hate for Microsoft makes you say stupid things. Or did you actually prefer Symbian?
and their internal modern OS development projects
I worked on those projects and believe me, a credible alternative from Microsoft wasn't the biggest of their problems.
I hope the community does not fork again (C++ vs 0x11) with boost vs Qt.
There is not much of a united community to split along these lines. Pragmatic developers and open source folks tend to use Qt. Wankers who like complexity for complexity's sake, and some developers who build monolithic applications for in-house use may prefer Boost. It's very impractical to use Boost with reusable code, which for the past couple decades means shared libraries. The generative programming wankers who have been shaping the design of C++ never noticed the importance of shared library support. You never expose definition-heavy classes as your library ABI.
Ok, but on the other hand you can also end up with things like GTK.
You mean like, an object model that provides dynamic signal-slot binding, properties, introspection, and bindings to really productive high level languages such as JavaScript and Vala? Count me in favor.
Well, the article says good things about freeloaders, not self-entitled whiners who think the developer community owes them the exact implementation of their wishes, all else be damned.