and give rise to revolution or a strong man who throws out all the rights in the republic to reestablish order, leading to autocracy
if you aren't explicit about the whole democracy thing, you wind up with an aristocratic elite with a firm grip on the government. study the history of all republics, this is a natural evolution. for all of its flaws, democracy has a feature which trumps everything else: it manufactures legitimacy. the will of the people is consulted, and the government is chosen from that will. the people are happy they have their say. there is always malcontent, in any system, but it is held at a minimum in democracy
without the explicit consultation democracy provides, the will of the people and the agenda of the ruling class begin to drift apart over time. simple miscommunication and entropy can be the culprit, no real malice, although there's always enough of that around. mistrust and illegtimacy is the result, and social stability decays, eventually leading to outright revolt or an incredibly weak government that gives way to a strong man and autocracy who reestablishes order, but at the cost of all the precious rights you look to a republic to guarantee
so you're stuck with democracy. it provides stability. a republic without democracy isn't stable, it decays
and i really have to wonder what makes you so distrustful of your fellow man. some sort of blind conceit on your part probably, a personal failure of yours
i could handle all of the griefers and lamers and the dupes
but the racism really bothers me
i thought nothing in that cesspool would get to me, but k5 just kept sinking and getting sleazier by the day. so now i know my limits: i can't handle racists, i have nothing for them except revulsion
i'm sorry but arguing any further with you is beginning to feel like arguing with a creationist or a scientologist. you are extremely prejudiced and it is clouding your perception of reality. you obviously have an axe to grind with the usa. which is fine, fuck the usa: this really has nothing to do with the usa, its a giant red herring
that your hatred of the usa should so color your perception of what is going on in iran is scary ignorance. the brave and inspirational people of iran are undertaking right now something by the millions of their own free volition that you are so cretinously cynical about, i don't know if it is possible for you to even understand what the concepts of hope and freedom really are
i'm just happy the iranian people understand those concepts
you want to know something about history?
watch what is going on in iran right now. that's history being made. i'm just afraid that you're so trapped in your self-reinforcing prejudical modes of thinking, you can't even begin to see the unique and singular brave people of iran through your thick fog of obsession with usa recriminations
is what is going on in iran the product of an organic domestic popular uprising?
or the cia?
put your money where your mouth is
to me, it is braindead motherfucking obvious that what is going on in iran is purely organic
that the cia, whatever it did or is doing, is completely immaterial and pointless to how events are currently unfolding in iran. if the cia did nothing, or if the cia was pursuing every single effort it could possibly imagine to overthrow the government, it would be peaningless and pointless to what is actually going on in iran right now
meanwhile, what are you telling me? that if the cia didn't exist iran would happily accept ahmadinijad's claims of winning?
it is impossible, in the entire history of the world, to find any popular uprising that was 100% organic. simply because every state that has ever existed has foreign enemies. the revolt naturally would be sympathetic to the foreign power, and the foreign power would naturally give some support, even if just vague and token
therefore, since it is impossible to say any motivation was 100% this or 100% that, saying it was a domestic popular revolt is all you really have to say, since token foreign support is always implied, and needs go unsaid as a valid description of events
what is going on in iran is obviously almost completely majority organic domestic popular uprising
so that some guy in langley virginia is celebrating is immaterial to the outcome: the cia is not even remotely the deciding factor here, like it was in operation ajax. so considering cia involvement is like considering if the papercut killed the man with the shotgun blast to the chest. pointless and trivial
please inform the author what you think of his opinion that solidarity was not an organic popular uprising of polish people, but a successful cia mind control experiment
focus on the intellectual honesty of the statement that the usa will not change in its approach in international relations. tell me about people who believe that: are they replacing intelligence with prejudice and cynicism?
of course they are
cynicism is a loser's approach to life, its not intelligence, and that's essentially what i'm arguing about
there are people here however who cling so desperately to the tired cold war stereotype of the usa meddling in other country's affairs, that even when a brain dead obvious popular uprising occurs in iran, they have to talk about it being the product of cia meddling
fucking pathetic!
open your eyes. iran is experiencing a huge organic domestic popular revolt against the government. to talk about cia meddling in that context is... retarded. that's not name calling, that's a fair appraisal of the intellectual capacity of anyone who looks at the evidence and concludes foreign meddling is to blame for the iranian revolt taking place
"How is historical fact propaganda? You can't just take history that disproves your belief system and call it propaganda. That's a recipe for perpetual self delusion."
propaganda never lies. it doesn't have to. propaganda always tells the truth...
propaganda tells HALF of the truth. half-truth is exactly that: bits and pieces of truth, taken out of context of the larger facts and events they exist in, to prove or support a notion which is essentially half-formed
for any assertion i make, you can bring me solid factual historical evidence by the truckload to refute what i say completely
its when you try to make sense of it all, to think about it, to put it in context, some perspective, some scale, to put the pieces together, that your prejudice generating machine reveals itself to have nothing to do with history at all
turkey slaughtered millions of armenians. that's a historical fact. but what does that mean? does that mean that the only relationship turkey can ever have towards armenia is murder? of course not
japan was one of the most hardcore military imperialist powers the world has ever known just 70 years ago. japan today is probably the most pacifist major nation the world has ever known. this is a completely black and white change in attitude in less time than the span of one human lifetime
but what you are trying to tell me is: once an imperialistic meddler, always an imperialistic meddler. you have an impressive list of crimes from the cold war. so that means this is the only way the usa will always behave to the world? of course not, but this is what you are telling me
the prime motivator for the usa's engaging in cold war crimes is fighting the ussr. the ussr is gone and dead 20 years. the entire gears of the entire miliary and intelligence apparatus of the usa has gone from fixation on the fighting communism to fixation on fighting global jihad. the usa once armed afghani mujaheedin, now they hunt them. things have changed 180 degrees in some ways in terms of agenda and strategy. and this is incredibly obvious to anyone paying the barest attention to recent world events. but according to you, the usa is still going to behave exactly like it did under dwight eisenhower. why do you think your attitude is remotely intellectually honest about the world we live in?
history should illuminate your view of the world and its peoples and what motivates them and inform you of the potential for dramatic change. it shouldn't lock you into prejudicial thinking. but this what you are telling me historical facts are all about. bullshit. you are using history as a prejudice generator, little more, and your thinking about history and what it means is exactly opposite to the spirit of rational thought and a human conscience about the world
you'd make a great propagandizer, but a poor historian
turkey slaughtered millions of armenians. that's a historical fact. but what does that mean? does that mean that the only relationship turkey can ever have towards armenia is murder? of course not
japan was one of the most hardcore military imperialist powers the world has ever known just 70 years ago. japan today is probably the most pacifist major nation the world has ever known. this is a completely black and white change in attitude in less time than the span of one human lifetime
but what you are trying to tell me is: once an imperialistic meddler, always an imperiliastic meddler. you have an impressive list of crimes from the cold war. so that means this is the only way the usa will always behave to the world? of course not, but this is what you are telling me
history should illuminate your view of the world and its peoples and what motivates them and inform you of the potential for dramatic change. it shouldn't lock you into prejudicial thinking. but this what you are telling me historical facts are all about. bullshit. you are using history as a prejudice generator, little more, and your thinking about history and what it means is exactly opposite to the spirit of rational thought and a human conscience about the world
you'd make a great propagandizer, but a poor historian
in your mind for what is going on in the streets of iran right now:
1. the organic, domestic, natural desires of the populace
2. cia machinations
you speak of history as if it is a prison. your understanding of history doesn't illuminate your thought, it locks it into prejudicial thinking. history should inform your mind about the potential for dramatic change. but for you, history is merely a propagandistic tool for reinforcing your prejudice that no one ever changes
nevermind the fact that the most aggressive black ops intelligence effort any world government could ever devise could never in anyone's wildest fantasies create the magnitude of the demonstrations going on in iran
turkey slaughtered millions of armenians. that's a historical fact. but what does that mean? does that mean that the only relationship turkey can ever have towards armenia is murder? of course not
japan was one of the most hardcore military imperialist powers the world has ever known just 70 years ago. japan today is probably the most pacifist major nation the world has ever known. this is a completely black and white change in attitude in less time than the span of one human lifetime
but what you are trying to tell me is: once an imperialistic meddler, always an imperilaistic meddler. you have an impressive list of crimes from the cold war. so that means this is the only way the usa will always behave to the world? of course not, but this is what you are telling me
history should illuminate your view of the world and its peoples and what motivates them and inform you of the potential for dramatic change. it shouldn't lock you into prejudicial thinking. but this what you are telling me historical facts are all about. bullshit. you are using history as a prejudice generator, little more, and your thinking about history and what it means is exactly opposite to the spirit of rational thought and a human conscience about the world
you'd make a great propagandizer, but a poor historian
ii is useful to understand the previous era to understand why people think the way they do. but history is not an arcade of victimization that the usa or any other country is bound to forever
you don't really understand history. all you know is propaganda talking points from a dead era
does the turkish slaughter of millions of armenians define and limit turkish identity and behavior today? is japan forever bound by its war crimes in world war ii? is any discussion of rwanda nothing more than a rote recycling of talking points about the 1994 genocide?
none of us are prisoners of history. any country that escaped the manipulations of the usa in past eras understands that far better than you do
stop playing the blame game. that's not enlightenment via historical understanding, that's merely an exercise in reflexive recrimination
again: none of us are prisoners of history. where past atrocities are known, you learn from them, and move on. you don't sit there immobilized in perpetual blame
in fact your entire screed is more of an illumination of your own psychological failures in terms of learned helplessness and rationalizing your own inaction about how to behave in this world than any true historical understanding
chavez in venezuela uses a regular drumbeat: the usa are invading at any minute
the north korean regime tells its citizens since the 1950s: the usa is invading at any minute
iran uses a regular drumbeat: the usa is invading at any minute
its long since passed the sell-by date that the usa is doing any such thing to these countries, and it has entered the realm of cheap and easy propagandistic manipulation by whomever is in power
do you even understand what that word means? the way you think about how your world works is about as "nuanced" as a sledgehammer
let me ask you something: is a simple organic popular uprising even possible in your braindead cynical world? it's all secret societies and backroom deals and pulled strings? the french revolution was started by german princes? the american civil war was the machinations of british imperialists? the 1979 iranian revolution was started by russian kgb? you realize this stupidity is on the same level as your thinking about what is going on in iran right now. you realize that, right? the number of people in the streets: really just fucking consider for a moment the SHEER NUMBER of people in the fucking streets. oh right, that's a mossad/ cia/ mi6 lie i'm swallowing, right?
you honestly believe, even if china could give groups in the usa a trillion dollars, that a popular uprising could take hold? you really believe just a satchel of money is all it would take to foment revolution here? your faith in democratic institutions is that shallow and that cynical? your view of human nature is that craven and that brutal?
you honestly believe, that millions of iranians, across all classes and ages and all geographic areas, are acting on the motivations of the cia!
you're a paranoid schizophrenic retard
i'm sorry, i'm not trying to replace a conversation with a name calling contest
but calling you a paranoid schizophrenica retard is the simply the best impartial description i can come up with for your thought processes about how your world and the people in it works
i was with you, then my thinking went against you because i couldn't see the implications you were trying to make. its either something with uniting us, or something going against us in terms of common thought here, i just don't know
plus a million more other observations you could have also made, real or imagined, about foreign meddling in iraq:
1 ounce
millions of iranians organically assembling day after day:
1 million tons
that's about the weight difference in terms of compelling proof about whether or not what is going on iran is anything but a completely native and original domestic movement
if enough people are filled with hate, that certainly becomes a political tool, just as you say
but in a nondemocracy, the cynical use of hate isn't tempered by anything except the governments craven wants and desires
meanwhile, in a truly open democracy, the use of hate is limited by the free expression of alternate and equally valid human thought processes, thought processes that often overrule hate as a prime motivator
for example, we just witnessed the election of a minority in the usa, while the republicans suffered during the run up to the election last year for cynical shallow hate filled manipulations that backfired: he's a communist, he's a muslim... he's a communist muslim?
just 20-30 years ago, code worded racist fears were quite effective in us presidential elections:
in an open democracy, such craven manipulations begin to backfire and fall short, because in an open democracy, alternatives to hate as a motivator are allowed to naturally assert themselves. in an autocracy, usually cynical thinking just like yours predominates in the official propaganda apparatuses, and no one bothers to think to use more noble motivations that might find deeper resonance with their populace than simple hate. that's why cynicism eventually fails
you really need to think more before you make such broad overarching and mindlessly cynical equivocations about your world, and especially the democracy you live in
yes, hate IS politically expedient IN GENERAL
but no, hate is NOT politically expedient "like with our governments"
with "our governments", ie, true liberal democracies, motivations more than simple hate can and do predominate. not so in autocratic governments. they push the hate to ridiculous extremes, like an organic native uprising is actually the result of foreign manipulations, because its all they know how to do. they are on braindead autopilot, so their propaganda begins to fail
the propaganda of hate only goes so far. it reaches its limits in true democracies. it is overused and backfires in nondemocracies
how the hell does mi6 or mossad or the cia incite millions of iranians to march in the street day after day?
mind control rays? hallucinogens in the water supply? chemtrails? ergot in the wheat in the food supply?
look: i don't have definitive proof that the moon isn't made of cheese. nasa is clearly a mouthpiece of the us govt and obviously it has every reason to lie about and stage fake moon landings in hollywood sound stages, and deny a hungry world such an abundant food source, or otherwise the american military industrial food complex will go out of business*
*this delusional paranoid schizophrenic crackpot rant brought to you by the same mentality of anyone who wonders if what is going on in iran is manipulation by foreign governments or reality
i'm completely and utterly dumbfounded how anyone could believe what is going on in iran is anything but organic and genuine
Slashdot Mirror
and give rise to revolution or a strong man who throws out all the rights in the republic to reestablish order, leading to autocracy
if you aren't explicit about the whole democracy thing, you wind up with an aristocratic elite with a firm grip on the government. study the history of all republics, this is a natural evolution. for all of its flaws, democracy has a feature which trumps everything else: it manufactures legitimacy. the will of the people is consulted, and the government is chosen from that will. the people are happy they have their say. there is always malcontent, in any system, but it is held at a minimum in democracy
without the explicit consultation democracy provides, the will of the people and the agenda of the ruling class begin to drift apart over time. simple miscommunication and entropy can be the culprit, no real malice, although there's always enough of that around. mistrust and illegtimacy is the result, and social stability decays, eventually leading to outright revolt or an incredibly weak government that gives way to a strong man and autocracy who reestablishes order, but at the cost of all the precious rights you look to a republic to guarantee
so you're stuck with democracy. it provides stability. a republic without democracy isn't stable, it decays
and i really have to wonder what makes you so distrustful of your fellow man. some sort of blind conceit on your part probably, a personal failure of yours
vulcan
obama is not our first african american president
he's our first vulcan american president
the emotionless measured speech cadences, the prominent ears, the mind meld level charisma
c'mon, look at the dude!:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/president_obama/
this dude's an alien. not an illegal alien, a space alien
so you can bet all the comments that want ufo records unsealed as referred to in the article aren't going to get their request met
i hadn't the foggiest about this plain old text/ html bullshit
i'll be sure to use this arcane knowledge if i submit again
apologies
i suppose its better than olfactory nerves
i could handle all of the griefers and lamers and the dupes
but the racism really bothers me
i thought nothing in that cesspool would get to me, but k5 just kept sinking and getting sleazier by the day. so now i know my limits: i can't handle racists, i have nothing for them except revulsion
it can make your dick go limp
its the same as being in a sexually arousing situation and suddenly being asked to fill out form 1040A and pay your taxes right now
(with apologies to all of the IRS fetishists)
"It's a product of both"
it's a product of the people of iran
i'm sorry but arguing any further with you is beginning to feel like arguing with a creationist or a scientologist. you are extremely prejudiced and it is clouding your perception of reality. you obviously have an axe to grind with the usa. which is fine, fuck the usa: this really has nothing to do with the usa, its a giant red herring
that your hatred of the usa should so color your perception of what is going on in iran is scary ignorance. the brave and inspirational people of iran are undertaking right now something by the millions of their own free volition that you are so cretinously cynical about, i don't know if it is possible for you to even understand what the concepts of hope and freedom really are
i'm just happy the iranian people understand those concepts
you want to know something about history?
watch what is going on in iran right now. that's history being made. i'm just afraid that you're so trapped in your self-reinforcing prejudical modes of thinking, you can't even begin to see the unique and singular brave people of iran through your thick fog of obsession with usa recriminations
is what is going on in iran the product of an organic domestic popular uprising?
or the cia?
put your money where your mouth is
to me, it is braindead motherfucking obvious that what is going on in iran is purely organic
that the cia, whatever it did or is doing, is completely immaterial and pointless to how events are currently unfolding in iran. if the cia did nothing, or if the cia was pursuing every single effort it could possibly imagine to overthrow the government, it would be peaningless and pointless to what is actually going on in iran right now
meanwhile, what are you telling me? that if the cia didn't exist iran would happily accept ahmadinijad's claims of winning?
it is impossible, in the entire history of the world, to find any popular uprising that was 100% organic. simply because every state that has ever existed has foreign enemies. the revolt naturally would be sympathetic to the foreign power, and the foreign power would naturally give some support, even if just vague and token
therefore, since it is impossible to say any motivation was 100% this or 100% that, saying it was a domestic popular revolt is all you really have to say, since token foreign support is always implied, and needs go unsaid as a valid description of events
what is going on in iran is obviously almost completely majority organic domestic popular uprising
so that some guy in langley virginia is celebrating is immaterial to the outcome: the cia is not even remotely the deciding factor here, like it was in operation ajax. so considering cia involvement is like considering if the papercut killed the man with the shotgun blast to the chest. pointless and trivial
please inform the author what you think of his opinion that solidarity was not an organic popular uprising of polish people, but a successful cia mind control experiment
fucking tired pathetic paranoid schizophrenia
forget the usa's potential for change
forget the usa's supposed inability to change
focus on the intellectual honesty of the statement that the usa will not change in its approach in international relations. tell me about people who believe that: are they replacing intelligence with prejudice and cynicism?
of course they are
cynicism is a loser's approach to life, its not intelligence, and that's essentially what i'm arguing about
there are people here however who cling so desperately to the tired cold war stereotype of the usa meddling in other country's affairs, that even when a brain dead obvious popular uprising occurs in iran, they have to talk about it being the product of cia meddling
fucking pathetic!
open your eyes. iran is experiencing a huge organic domestic popular revolt against the government. to talk about cia meddling in that context is... retarded. that's not name calling, that's a fair appraisal of the intellectual capacity of anyone who looks at the evidence and concludes foreign meddling is to blame for the iranian revolt taking place
all those people? cia stooges? really?
"How is historical fact propaganda? You can't just take history that disproves your belief system and call it propaganda. That's a recipe for perpetual self delusion."
propaganda never lies. it doesn't have to. propaganda always tells the truth...
propaganda tells HALF of the truth. half-truth is exactly that: bits and pieces of truth, taken out of context of the larger facts and events they exist in, to prove or support a notion which is essentially half-formed
for any assertion i make, you can bring me solid factual historical evidence by the truckload to refute what i say completely
its when you try to make sense of it all, to think about it, to put it in context, some perspective, some scale, to put the pieces together, that your prejudice generating machine reveals itself to have nothing to do with history at all
is not something that imprisons you
turkey slaughtered millions of armenians. that's a historical fact. but what does that mean? does that mean that the only relationship turkey can ever have towards armenia is murder? of course not
japan was one of the most hardcore military imperialist powers the world has ever known just 70 years ago. japan today is probably the most pacifist major nation the world has ever known. this is a completely black and white change in attitude in less time than the span of one human lifetime
but what you are trying to tell me is: once an imperialistic meddler, always an imperialistic meddler. you have an impressive list of crimes from the cold war. so that means this is the only way the usa will always behave to the world? of course not, but this is what you are telling me
the prime motivator for the usa's engaging in cold war crimes is fighting the ussr. the ussr is gone and dead 20 years. the entire gears of the entire miliary and intelligence apparatus of the usa has gone from fixation on the fighting communism to fixation on fighting global jihad. the usa once armed afghani mujaheedin, now they hunt them. things have changed 180 degrees in some ways in terms of agenda and strategy. and this is incredibly obvious to anyone paying the barest attention to recent world events. but according to you, the usa is still going to behave exactly like it did under dwight eisenhower. why do you think your attitude is remotely intellectually honest about the world we live in?
history should illuminate your view of the world and its peoples and what motivates them and inform you of the potential for dramatic change. it shouldn't lock you into prejudicial thinking. but this what you are telling me historical facts are all about. bullshit. you are using history as a prejudice generator, little more, and your thinking about history and what it means is exactly opposite to the spirit of rational thought and a human conscience about the world
you'd make a great propagandizer, but a poor historian
is not something that imprisons you
turkey slaughtered millions of armenians. that's a historical fact. but what does that mean? does that mean that the only relationship turkey can ever have towards armenia is murder? of course not
japan was one of the most hardcore military imperialist powers the world has ever known just 70 years ago. japan today is probably the most pacifist major nation the world has ever known. this is a completely black and white change in attitude in less time than the span of one human lifetime
but what you are trying to tell me is: once an imperialistic meddler, always an imperiliastic meddler. you have an impressive list of crimes from the cold war. so that means this is the only way the usa will always behave to the world? of course not, but this is what you are telling me
history should illuminate your view of the world and its peoples and what motivates them and inform you of the potential for dramatic change. it shouldn't lock you into prejudicial thinking. but this what you are telling me historical facts are all about. bullshit. you are using history as a prejudice generator, little more, and your thinking about history and what it means is exactly opposite to the spirit of rational thought and a human conscience about the world
you'd make a great propagandizer, but a poor historian
in your mind for what is going on in the streets of iran right now:
1. the organic, domestic, natural desires of the populace
2. cia machinations
you speak of history as if it is a prison. your understanding of history doesn't illuminate your thought, it locks it into prejudicial thinking. history should inform your mind about the potential for dramatic change. but for you, history is merely a propagandistic tool for reinforcing your prejudice that no one ever changes
nevermind the fact that the most aggressive black ops intelligence effort any world government could ever devise could never in anyone's wildest fantasies create the magnitude of the demonstrations going on in iran
is not something that imprisons you
turkey slaughtered millions of armenians. that's a historical fact. but what does that mean? does that mean that the only relationship turkey can ever have towards armenia is murder? of course not
japan was one of the most hardcore military imperialist powers the world has ever known just 70 years ago. japan today is probably the most pacifist major nation the world has ever known. this is a completely black and white change in attitude in less time than the span of one human lifetime
but what you are trying to tell me is: once an imperialistic meddler, always an imperilaistic meddler. you have an impressive list of crimes from the cold war. so that means this is the only way the usa will always behave to the world? of course not, but this is what you are telling me
history should illuminate your view of the world and its peoples and what motivates them and inform you of the potential for dramatic change. it shouldn't lock you into prejudicial thinking. but this what you are telling me historical facts are all about. bullshit. you are using history as a prejudice generator, little more, and your thinking about history and what it means is exactly opposite to the spirit of rational thought and a human conscience about the world
you'd make a great propagandizer, but a poor historian
dude, the cold war is history
ii is useful to understand the previous era to understand why people think the way they do. but history is not an arcade of victimization that the usa or any other country is bound to forever
you don't really understand history. all you know is propaganda talking points from a dead era
does the turkish slaughter of millions of armenians define and limit turkish identity and behavior today? is japan forever bound by its war crimes in world war ii? is any discussion of rwanda nothing more than a rote recycling of talking points about the 1994 genocide?
none of us are prisoners of history. any country that escaped the manipulations of the usa in past eras understands that far better than you do
stop playing the blame game. that's not enlightenment via historical understanding, that's merely an exercise in reflexive recrimination
again: none of us are prisoners of history. where past atrocities are known, you learn from them, and move on. you don't sit there immobilized in perpetual blame
in fact your entire screed is more of an illumination of your own psychological failures in terms of learned helplessness and rationalizing your own inaction about how to behave in this world than any true historical understanding
chavez in venezuela uses a regular drumbeat: the usa are invading at any minute
the north korean regime tells its citizens since the 1950s: the usa is invading at any minute
iran uses a regular drumbeat: the usa is invading at any minute
its long since passed the sell-by date that the usa is doing any such thing to these countries, and it has entered the realm of cheap and easy propagandistic manipulation by whomever is in power
you've been punched in the head by one of those alpine kangaroos one too many times ;-)
vaccinations cause autism
absoutely true
but this conceit is a purely organic, original, and naturally formed conceit
no one is MAKING them believe that
which is my point: the cia are not forming these protests, the iranian people are protesting all of their very own independent volition
and to believe otherwise is simply paranoid schizophrenia, at the very best
do you even understand what that word means? the way you think about how your world works is about as "nuanced" as a sledgehammer
let me ask you something: is a simple organic popular uprising even possible in your braindead cynical world? it's all secret societies and backroom deals and pulled strings? the french revolution was started by german princes? the american civil war was the machinations of british imperialists? the 1979 iranian revolution was started by russian kgb? you realize this stupidity is on the same level as your thinking about what is going on in iran right now. you realize that, right? the number of people in the streets: really just fucking consider for a moment the SHEER NUMBER of people in the fucking streets. oh right, that's a mossad/ cia/ mi6 lie i'm swallowing, right?
you honestly believe, even if china could give groups in the usa a trillion dollars, that a popular uprising could take hold? you really believe just a satchel of money is all it would take to foment revolution here? your faith in democratic institutions is that shallow and that cynical? your view of human nature is that craven and that brutal?
you honestly believe, that millions of iranians, across all classes and ages and all geographic areas, are acting on the motivations of the cia!
you're a paranoid schizophrenic retard
i'm sorry, i'm not trying to replace a conversation with a name calling contest
but calling you a paranoid schizophrenica retard is the simply the best impartial description i can come up with for your thought processes about how your world and the people in it works
i was with you, then my thinking went against you because i couldn't see the implications you were trying to make. its either something with uniting us, or something going against us in terms of common thought here, i just don't know
plus a million more other observations you could have also made, real or imagined, about foreign meddling in iraq:
1 ounce
millions of iranians organically assembling day after day:
1 million tons
that's about the weight difference in terms of compelling proof about whether or not what is going on iran is anything but a completely native and original domestic movement
if enough people are filled with hate, that certainly becomes a political tool, just as you say
but in a nondemocracy, the cynical use of hate isn't tempered by anything except the governments craven wants and desires
meanwhile, in a truly open democracy, the use of hate is limited by the free expression of alternate and equally valid human thought processes, thought processes that often overrule hate as a prime motivator
for example, we just witnessed the election of a minority in the usa, while the republicans suffered during the run up to the election last year for cynical shallow hate filled manipulations that backfired: he's a communist, he's a muslim... he's a communist muslim?
just 20-30 years ago, code worded racist fears were quite effective in us presidential elections:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Horton#Horton_in_the_1988_presidential_campaign
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_queen
in an open democracy, such craven manipulations begin to backfire and fall short, because in an open democracy, alternatives to hate as a motivator are allowed to naturally assert themselves. in an autocracy, usually cynical thinking just like yours predominates in the official propaganda apparatuses, and no one bothers to think to use more noble motivations that might find deeper resonance with their populace than simple hate. that's why cynicism eventually fails
you really need to think more before you make such broad overarching and mindlessly cynical equivocations about your world, and especially the democracy you live in
yes, hate IS politically expedient IN GENERAL
but no, hate is NOT politically expedient "like with our governments"
with "our governments", ie, true liberal democracies, motivations more than simple hate can and do predominate. not so in autocratic governments. they push the hate to ridiculous extremes, like an organic native uprising is actually the result of foreign manipulations, because its all they know how to do. they are on braindead autopilot, so their propaganda begins to fail
the propaganda of hate only goes so far. it reaches its limits in true democracies. it is overused and backfires in nondemocracies
how the hell does mi6 or mossad or the cia incite millions of iranians to march in the street day after day?
mind control rays? hallucinogens in the water supply? chemtrails? ergot in the wheat in the food supply?
look: i don't have definitive proof that the moon isn't made of cheese. nasa is clearly a mouthpiece of the us govt and obviously it has every reason to lie about and stage fake moon landings in hollywood sound stages, and deny a hungry world such an abundant food source, or otherwise the american military industrial food complex will go out of business*
*this delusional paranoid schizophrenic crackpot rant brought to you by the same mentality of anyone who wonders if what is going on in iran is manipulation by foreign governments or reality
i'm completely and utterly dumbfounded how anyone could believe what is going on in iran is anything but organic and genuine